Brain.FM CEO Dan Clark On The App That Helps You Be Your Best Self On Demand

Brain.fm CEO Dan Clark

In a fun coincidence, this episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset

If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

 

Before he became CEO of Brain.fm, Dan Clark worked as a website and app developer. He switched careers from building an advertising agency and came across Brain.fm. 

In his first session, he bought an account and was so excited after a week of use, he needed to be part of the company. He called 12 times. 

He finally got a job and worked the first month for free. Fast forward, he’s now the CEO, and 2019's Forbes 30 under 30. 

Dan is always excited about how technology can change the world.

Connect with Dan and Brain.fm.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brainfmapp/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brain.fm/

Episode Transcript

Dan Clark

[00:00:00] Dan Clark: [00:00:00] The real mission is to empower everyone around the world to be their best self on demand, full stop.

[00:00:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:10] Hello, welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:31] I love it and have been using it to write, create, and do some of my deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word, and now let's get to.

[00:00:54] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm super [00:01:00] thrilled. You're here and I am incredibly excited about this week's guest. Check this out before he became CEO of brain FM, Dan Clark worked as a website and app developer. He switched careers from building an advertising agency and came across brain FM in his first session.

[00:01:17] He bought an account and was so super excited. After a week of use, he needed to be part of the company. He called them 12 times and he finally got a job with them and worked the first month for free that's how much he believed in it. Fast forward. He's now the CEO and 20 nineteens Forbes, 30 under 30.

[00:01:36] Dan has always excited about how technology can change the world. So that makes them the ideal guests for the innovative mindset podcast. Dan I'm so glad that you're here.

[00:01:43] Dan Clark: [00:01:43] Welcome my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:01:46] Oh, it's absolutely my pleasure. So first of all, it's not often you hear, I will work for you for free.

[00:01:54] What, what made you do that? What made you go, you know, I love this so much that I'm going to, I'm [00:02:00] going to just do whatever it takes to, to be part of this company.

[00:02:03] Dan Clark: [00:02:03] Yeah. So I think it was, um, it was both the product and then also my personal story. So, um, I'm a secretary black belt and I taught martial arts to kids, uh, for a really long time.

[00:02:13] And then as I did that, I started making martial arts websites, apps, and kind of, um, really start optimizing for, uh, financial success. And I hit this point when I was, um, the director of this advertising agency, where. I felt empty. Um, and I felt like I wasn't doing what I really loved, which is helping people.

[00:02:35] And I wanted to get back into that. And at the same time, I was super sensitive to my own focus and energy. Um, and I used to actually work from 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM in the morning to find what we call now, like our flow state. And I ended up leaving the advertising agency, looking for things that I could get excited about and [00:03:00] came across brain FM when it just launched.

[00:03:02] And I remember using it for the first time and being blown away because I was able to get into that magic state of effortless, where it feels like you can fly, um, again, flow state. And we can dive into that later, but I was so enthralled from the first activity and I was like, this can change the world.

[00:03:19] I need to be part of this country. And it was that level of commitment where I was like, I just want to be, this is going to change the world. I want to be part of this rocket ship. Um, call them up a bunch. Um, they didn't really, it was just starting company. And I said, Hey, you know, I'm not in here for the money.

[00:03:34] I'm here for, you know, the ride let's do this. And, um, I guess four, four years later, three years later I became CEO. So it's been a, it's been a wild ride and it's that drive of what can this do for the world and for people around the world, um, that has really driven me to, uh, you know, focus on building the company into what it.

[00:03:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:03:57] Oh, I love that. I love the [00:04:00] notion of wanting to change the world for the better, especially through innovation and technology. And I do want to dive into that, but I need to ask a side little question. What martial art are you a second Dornin? Um,

[00:04:13] Dan Clark: [00:04:13] mixed martial arts with a concentration of Krav Maga, muy Thai Kempo, uh, jujitsu, um, few different things in that nature.

[00:04:22] Wow.

[00:04:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:04:23] Oh, that's it sounds exciting. I'm a, I'm a showdown in Ikea, so I'm like, oh cool. I'm like, oh yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. I've been studying martial arts in one form or other since I was a teenager. And I actually find that the martial arts in some ways can help you get into that flow state as well.

[00:04:39] That that sort of change where almost anything is possible. And I would love if you would talk a little bit, you've mentioned flow state. I would love it. If you'd talk a little bit about what brain FM, how does, how does brain FM. Help you do that. If you, if what you want to do is get into that state where everything feels [00:05:00] effortless, where you're calm and you're focused.

[00:05:02] That's wonderful. And I know lots of people, trumpet meditation and all of that brain FM, and I've been using it myself recently. So I'm very excited about it, but how does it do, what does it do to you to help you get into that state?

[00:05:17] Dan Clark: [00:05:17] Yeah, of course. So at brain FM, we make functional music designed to help you focus, relax, and sleep better.

[00:05:23] Um, and the way we do that is, um, your brain has these different neural patterns, right? And they're actually very understood in science. So if you put an EEG on someone's head while they're in focus or relaxing or sleeping, there's a pattern that the brain has. Um, and if you did an MRI, which is measuring the blood flow to different areas of your brain, your blood flow has similar patterns.

[00:05:49] And what we do is we've been able to discover how to add, uh, different rhythmic pulses or different patterns to music. So when you're listening to that [00:06:00] music, your brain starts mirroring those patterns and can quicker switch into better focus, better relax, or better sleep. And then what's really cool about the technology is because you're continually losing this.

[00:06:15] Um, it's not something you have to train and practice that it's something that's, uh, a physiological effect. So we're actually redistributing blood flow in your brain, helping you get to that pattern that we know is science does help, um, and then stay there. And, um, the cool part about it is it's disguised in music.

[00:06:34] Um, it's a patented thing that we've come up with it's it hasn't been done before in this application. Um, and we have tons and tons of science to show the effectiveness of it.

[00:06:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:06:45] Wow. Okay. So let's dig into this a little bit. The science says that like, yay. So the science says that your brain is that the blood flow to the brain, the different neural pathways [00:07:00] are, the things are firing.

[00:07:02] The synapses are firing differently. It sounds like. And what does that mean with respect to the music itself? Is the music, is it, is it sub oral or is it something that's the actual rhythm of the pieces themselves? That does that

[00:07:17] Dan Clark: [00:07:17] great question. So, um, first off is when we make music, what we have done is actually build the music from ground up.

[00:07:26] So we don't. We don't like change music. That's already created. We say, Hey, let's first figure out from the beginning, how can we make music that affects people's mental states, right. And a lot of music today, that's responsible. Like you can search on YouTube or Spotify. You can find a bunch of people that claim that they can do this, but they usually take music that's already been created and either change it or relabel it as such.

[00:07:54] And there's been other attempts with science, like binaural beats or isochronic tones that have, uh, had [00:08:00] really limited success, um, to show that this works. Um, and what we've been able to discover is when we start from the ground up, we can do all of the things that you hear in music that, you know, feel, you know, focusing.

[00:08:15] And we can talk about some of those things like sailings reduction and new lyrics. Um, but then we also add these patterns. Um, that act on our brain on a, um, uh, uh, physical level, um, which allow us to align the functional networks of your brain to communicate more effectively. Um, so let me, there's a lot there, so let me break it down.

[00:08:38] So one of the things, yeah, one of the things that we know, and it probably makes sense is that when you listen to music with lyrics in it, it can be distracting. And the reason why is because you either know the lyrics, so you start thinking about what the next lyrics are. It's distracting from the work you're doing, or you're trying to [00:09:00] understand the lyrics.

[00:09:01] And there's no such thing in the brain as multitasking. You're basically switching back and forth between tasks. So even if you're kind of, um, not paying attention to the lyrics or trying to, you know, actively ignore something, it's actually taking energy to do that. So one of the first rules we have is we don't have lyrics in our music.

[00:09:24] There's other rules that we follow, um, which is like salients reduction. Um, and that's the difference between, um, sounds so not having like loud, you know, clashes and other kinds of things, music that stealer attention. And these are based on things that we've been able to observe in the brain that really actually track all the way back to like evolution.

[00:09:45] Um, because we're the descendants of the people that when we are walking in the woods and we heard a twig break, we knew, oh, there's probably a tiger here. That's coming to get me, I'm going to run away. Right. And so what happens is we're making music to [00:10:00] really control the environment and just from an acoustic property alone.

[00:10:04] And one of the reasons why we all love music is because it's really cool that you can put music on and change the. The state that you're in, in a way of, um, you know, associations as a way of like what genres you're listening to. Um, and it acts on the brain, you know, as music does. And then what we've done is, is we do all of those roles and then we apply science on top of it, um, or with it.

[00:10:33] And what we're doing is, is inside of those genres or the different kinds of music that we're playing that are following all those rules were, um, adding these, um, modulations, which are these rapid, uh, frequencies of turning on and off different bands of music and what that's actually doing when you listen to it, um, is it's, it's, um, lining up different functional networks of your brain through a process called entrainment [00:11:00] and what you can kind of think of it as your brain being like a Christmas tree where it's blinking all different times and all different regions.

[00:11:08] Are starting to listen to these patterns that are, um, basically harnessing all these regions and organizing them, um, the process of entrainment mirrors, um, your environment and your, those Christmas tree lights actually all start blinking at the same time, which enables us to hope speed up the transition between, you know, being in a resting state, for example, and then being in a deep focus state.

[00:11:38] Um, so what we're doing here is we're using human composers where you, which are really great at creativity and finding really great things that people, um, want to listen to. And then we're combining it with AI and with scientific research to create a product that basically is a switch, uh, that gets you into a mental [00:12:00] state and the effect, uh, it takes about five minutes to work and then it's sustained as long as you're listening to.

[00:12:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:12:09] I keep saying the word wow. After you're done talking because there's so it's, there's so much. Wow. Okay. So there are, so there's something you just said that made me go. Hmm. Is there such a thing as listening too long too? Cause I noticed in, in the app it's like 15 minutes, half an hour or two hours or something like that.

[00:12:32] If you want to do a focusing session, is that a, so that your brain does not get fatigued or was there another reason for making it so that there are these limits?

[00:12:42] Dan Clark: [00:12:42] That's a really great question. So actually in our new apps that we're developing right now, we're moving all of those. Um, that was really designed to give people an option of how to get started, but it really comes down to you.

[00:12:55] So it depends on. Really knowing [00:13:00] yourself and knowing the activity, excuse me, working on. Um, and then, uh, figuring out like, you know, what's, what's best suited for you. So for example, I use, uh, like I'll do a deep work focus, and I usually do about 90 minutes on that. And that's specifically designed for work that, you know, I just have to like crush through like my emails or whatever.

[00:13:21] Um, but when I'm doing, um, you know, like business planning or trying to be creative, like creative, I use our creativity section, which is in the, some of the new apps we're developing and are probably out by the time everyone's listening to this. Um, and that's specifically designed for again that like, you know, being more creative and being more loose and I find best for me in that state is 30 minutes.

[00:13:46] Um, but I know with other people, they have other experiences because everyone's brain is different and we're helping your brain. You know, get to the state that, uh, we, you know, we see works. [00:14:00] Um, and there's some other kinds of personalization that we can dive into as well. But then it's up to you to really learn more about yourself.

[00:14:10] Um, almost like training wheels, riding a bike, and then saying, okay, this is how long I really enjoy riding a bike before it's not fun anymore. Um, and, and that's kind of the, the best thing about the technology. You can use it, you know, some people use it for eight hours a day, um, but it really comes down to what's best for you what feels right?

[00:14:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:14:29] Yeah. I think it's empowering to sort of be the driver of your own bus there. And that's what I've noticed in using the focusing thing is that two hours is just a little too long for me, and then I drop it down, but I am amazed at how quickly, and this is something, I guess, that's that flow state that you were talking about?

[00:14:47] What has happened in the last couple of weeks since I've been using the app? Is that. I get to this place where I don't realize that I've been productive. I look back and go, oh, look at all these [00:15:00] things I've finished. But I was so deep into them that the passage of time sort of went away. And so I was wondering when someone is using the app, that flow state seems to be an ideal.

[00:15:15] What happens if they can't get there? Do you have feedback from users that are like, no, this, I don't know how to make this work for me. And what do you do when someone says that when someone goes, you know, is there, is there, for example, uh, perhaps a neurological issue that someone might have that might preclude them from being able to use the app because of the way the app interacts with

[00:15:37] Dan Clark: [00:15:37] the brain.

[00:15:38] Very good question. Um, let's unpack that. So there's, there's definitely neurological diverse people. Um, everyone has different neurological diversity, um, and that could be spectrum of, you know, ADHD, for example, um, it's a myth, it's a common misconception that you have ADHD or you don't, um, it's in reality is [00:16:00] everyone has different levels of ADHD and all the other kinds of neurological stuff.

[00:16:05] Um, so there could be things that have proclivities across, um, that, that, you know, um, maybe people have challenges with. However, uh, we actually find that more neurological diverse people have better effects with brain FM, um, believe it or not. So we were working with, um, autism, ADHD, um, different kinds of anxiety.

[00:16:29] And we do a lot of research on the side there. Um, some of the things that we do for personalization and, and some of maybe. The faster, more direct answer to your question is that, um, our science, um, is really our power level of the music. We call it their neural effect level. And some people are very sensitive to it and some people are less sensitive.

[00:16:54] And what, um, if people are having challenges, finding, you know, their flow state, I would [00:17:00] actually say, we have to find, you know, turn that knob up. So it's more intense or turn it down. And that's, um, some of the reasons that you hear me mentioning this new app that we're creating, because what we wanted, we found that this works for all individuals, because it's a process of entrainment that we naturally do.

[00:17:19] So actually you and I talking you're in training to my voice and my, you know, I'm doing the same to you. And that's an effect of being able to infer what I'm going to say next, um, and different kinds of environmental factors and, uh, Basically the, the, the answer to your question is, uh, you know, we found that this does work for many, many people because it works with our brain.

[00:17:44] It's not like hacking it. It's, it's something that your brain naturally already does. And what we have to just find is fine tuning for Bob versus Samantha, you know, what the specific power level that they need. And then what kind of, um, acoustic qualities of the music [00:18:00] is best suited for them like the brightness or the complexity, um, and then really packaged it together.

[00:18:05] Um, and that's something that we are constantly working on to make sure that every time you go in it's the best experience. Um, and then if people don't, if people have challenges, they can reach out to customer support and we can definitely help them find more specific crafted music for them.

[00:18:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:18:22] I love that.

[00:18:22] And I love that notion of the personalization of it that lets you again, stay in the driver's seat of what works for you. What doesn't work for you. The, the music that I've listened to for the focusing has been fantastic for me because I like it. And I liked that. You said that it's not jarring. I noticed that, that there weren't any big, you know, drum crescendos or anything like that.

[00:18:43] It was, it was much more of a, of a gentle rolling Hills instead of climbing mountains, which I think is great. But you said something that I think is really interesting about the ADF. My husband has add, I talk about it on this podcast all the time, because he's very artistic and creative and innovative, but [00:19:00] has trouble focusing.

[00:19:01] And part of the thing that I'm, I'm, I'm totally gonna get this for him so that he can use it to. And part of the thing that I'm thinking about is when someone has a, neurodivergence a component to the way they think that is different. What, and you said customer service, it would be great, you know, so they can reach out, but what can they do on the fly?

[00:19:26] What can they, is there a choice they can make within the music? Or is that, or is that coming in the next version of the app to go? No, I'm not, I'm not focusing the way I want to be, or I want to be doing something differently than I am. Can I choose within the app to make the experience better for myself in the moment, or is that something that's going to be coming down the pike?

[00:19:46] Dan Clark: [00:19:46] So you can actually right now, so, um, in our, in our iOS and Android version of the app, right now, you can actually go into the power level settings and select one, two or three. And the new version of the app, we give you even more hand control of, [00:20:00] of showing you the personalization engine we're using, where you're, you're falling in that category.

[00:20:05] Um, and then able to like play with it a little bit. Um, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's really the power of, of our music and w and our functional music on how we're approaching this, um, and how we differentiate between Spotify. So we really want to make sure that, you know, um, as a user where you fall in that category and give you the ability to see and feel the difference.

[00:20:26] Um, and it's really interesting because you may need some power level. You know, for focus and you need a complete, like, let's say you need, um, so people with, um, higher ADHD usually perform better with higher power levels. So let's say it's a level three, right? And in sleep, it's not level three, it's a level one, you know?

[00:20:49] Um, and they don't necessarily correlate. Um, but again, that's what we're trying to do here is, is create music that you want to listen to. Um, you said a good point of it's not jarring. It's [00:21:00] actually, we try really hard to make music that you enjoy listening to, but you don't love, um, because we don't want you to like be distracted by, wow, I've really loved this song.

[00:21:10] And we have, you know, we have great music. We have award-winning composers that do this. Um, but then, you know, again, giving you also the power to control the power, um, and then learn more about yourself and, you know, optimize, um, as you choose to.

[00:21:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:21:29] That's so interesting because I really liked the songs, the city too, so that's good. Uh, I tend to like instrumental music a lot. So it was very, you know, you said, well, we want you to like it, but not love it. And I think that's really, that's really fascinating because then it's easier to keep it sort of in the background while you focus on the other things that you're trying to actually do.

[00:21:51] And if we can, if we can change, focus just a little bit, see what I did there. Uh, if we can, I didn't actually, I've English, isn't [00:22:00] my first language. And so I cannot pun, but when I do, it's always, I always want to do a little, a little happy dance because I actually punched in and did it. Let's talk about stress.

[00:22:10] Sure. So one of the things that you can do with the app is do a relaxation. So there's a relaxation arm of this and that is it. Is it sort of hijacking the amygdala or, or are you going by the time it gets to the hypothalamus? Like where, where does the app interact with the brain when it comes to that stress fight flight or freeze response?

[00:22:34] How does

[00:22:35] Dan Clark: [00:22:35] that yeah, great question. And I think there may be some answers here that my neuroscientist is better suited than I am, but I'll try my best. Um, so we're actually using the same exact technology that we're using for flow states and focus and even relax or sorry, sleep and what we're doing with relaxes, we have a different neural pattern and that pattern is, um, again, redistributing blood flow in your brain [00:23:00] that then because of that has different functions.

[00:23:03] So. We're not necessarily going to the medulla or the, you know, all the different parts of the brain and specifically, um, uh, focusing now I'm doing puns, but, um, we're not specifically like hijacking, you're changing something of that. What we're doing is we're actually changing the whole brain. Um, and that effect is, is one.

[00:23:25] I think it makes more sense because your brain is so, um, um, you know, we know more about Pluto that we know about our brain in some aspects, like memory creation, things like that. There's, there's still a lot of things that we're just discovering how the brain works. Um, and for, for relax specifically, um, we, we are just creating a different normal pattern.

[00:23:47] We do different genres of music that people associate with like relaxing environments. Um, so the difference between like almost like spa music, um, and then, you know, different chill and instrumental music that's slower. [00:24:00] So we're doing an on both sides. And actually it's really funny because one of the things that we are doing in our medical portion of the company is we're actually investigating relaxation, um, for different kinds of medical treatments.

[00:24:16] And, um, we did this one study where there's a song called wait-lists by mark CARNA union. And it's whole it's it's, it's, there's been BBC articles and stuff. And this was created a few years ago. It's the most relaxing sound in the world. And it was built with neuroscientists and, um, you know, different composers.

[00:24:36] And it was so successful that they actually compared it to a. Um, my, it was some kind of, um, a drug, right. I, I can't remember the exact name. Um, I wouldn't be able to pronounce it probably. Um, but, um, they were, it was, it was that, and it was, it was hailed as the most sound relaxing sound of the world because it's just as effective as this one sedative.

[00:25:00] [00:25:00] And what we did is we said, okay, well, let's see if we can beat it. And in this specific example, we're actually currently doing pilot tests in surgery centers to help people relax before surgery and then wake up after surgery. Well rested, especially because it's, it's very hard not to be stressed before surgery, you know?

[00:25:21] Um, and what's really interesting is we took all the things that waitlist did. We applied all of the technology that we have. And we beat it by like 30%, um, using different kinds of questionnaires of, um, uh, the poems questionnaire. That's, that's the standard in psychology. Um, and from that, now we're going in testing this with pilot data.

[00:25:44] And what's really interesting is it's the same exact technology that we have in our consumer application. Um, and it allows someone to really, you know, press a button. Switch their state. And what's really cool about [00:26:00] this. You know, I, I like, I love meditation. I, I'm a very big proponent of it. Um, but what's really interesting about this is that meditation, you really have to practice.

[00:26:10] Um, and even if you practice and you think you got it, then you practice another 10 times and you're like, no, now I got it. And it just keeps going where this is again, that, that physiological effect. So it will happen in your first five minutes, even if you're mentally not ready to, you know, um, and that's really cool, especially with our busy lives that we have, where if you just say, Hey, I just need five minutes to relax.

[00:26:34] You can actually shift your whole demeanor by switching into this. And that five minutes is actually doing something rather than, you know, hoping it's doing something for example. Um, and I think there's, there's a huge difference in that. Um, because it's, it's almost inactive. Does that make

[00:26:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:26:54] sense? It does.

[00:26:56] It absolutely does make sense as I'm a long time meditator, but [00:27:00] I'm a long time frustrated meditator because of that, because there are times when I try to drop down into meditation and the entire time I'm going, I'd really like to be meditating right now. I can't believe I can't shut my brain off, you know?

[00:27:12] And so, so I'm constantly picturing calm oceans for a long time trying to get to that state. So I liked the notion very much of, of being able to get into that state. And I really liked the notion of people in hospitals having access to something that will help them de-stress beforehand. And I did, I did some research and you have a national science foundation grant to study this technology.

[00:27:39] What, how, first of all, how did you get it? And second of all, what exactly is the NSF funding for you to start.

[00:27:47] Dan Clark: [00:27:47] Yeah. Great question. So this was, um, in a, uh, dual, um, effort with Northeastern university with one of our, um, uh, what's the best word. [00:28:00] Um, I guess, you know, we, we have a lot of different partnerships with different academic institutions and, um, this is with one, um, specifically to study ADHD in the brain and as a alternative treatments to medication, um, to, uh, help people with ADHD.

[00:28:17] And what we did specifically for this was, um, and this is where like a lot of our evidence comes from at least for our focus product, um, where we took regular music. Um, we took brain FM. We took brain FM with, and without our technology applied to it. Um, and then we put like a like pink noise. And we basically studied different individuals that were trying to do different video games.

[00:28:45] Um, and these are start tasks which are, um, very standard in, um, measuring someone's performance. And as they did that, we watched them on EEG. We watched them, um, on Fri and we were able to determine that. [00:29:00] When someone is listening to, um, you know, brain FM and someone that has ADHD, um, that different, um, neural pattern or that power level that we can adjust.

[00:29:13] Um, if we turn that up higher, that person has better effects from, uh, the music, then maybe more normalized individuals. Um, and from that, we're actually developing, um, a better product where we learn more about people in that personalized manner. And we can start selecting music based on where someone is on that bell curve of, um, neurodivergence.

[00:29:40] Um, and, and yeah, I mean, it's, it's very exciting because it's something that supports that we actually can help all individuals. And, um, now we can better serve rather than guessing. Um, we have a very great starting point on, um, helping someone get right into that point.

[00:30:01] [00:30:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:30:01] That's fascinating. And I, you know, as I said, my husband rich has add, so, so that notion of, uh, being able to focus when you want to is something that I think is incredible. And there's a book that a lot of people with add, read that's called you mean I'm not lazy, crazy or stupid. I don't know if you've ever heard of this book, but it was written a while ago.

[00:30:25] And it was written to people essentially to people who have add and ADHD to sort of let them know you're not lazy. Crazy. You're stupid. You, you have neurodivergence essentially. So I'm wondering in, in the work that you're doing, how. What kind of feedback. I mean, I could go look at the reviews of the app, but what kind of feedback are you getting from people who have these, these divergences and is it, is it helping the consumer as opposed to like, I understand the NSF study and I think that's amazing, but how, what kind of [00:31:00] feedback are you getting from people who have some of these challenges who then are able to perhaps focus some people for the first

[00:31:07] Dan Clark: [00:31:07] time?

[00:31:08] Yeah. So I'm happy to answer that, but before I do, I want to take a note and say that, um, I think everyone has super powers. Um, and people that for a long time in neurodiversity have said that they don't when, when they relook at it and they can really start harnessing it. They, you know, like you, you were mentioning your husband is very skilled as in creativity.

[00:31:32] Um, and that's such a super power. So I first just want to take a second and say that. You know, there's so many great gifts that people have. And, um, with ADHD, it's really hard to find people's, but it's really, and that's one of the mission statements that we have is really to help everyone be plus one, w we think we're a plus one product, so we can help everyone go to the next level, be their best self on demand.

[00:31:59] Um, [00:32:00] so you just, you just struck a chord with me. I want to make sure I brought that up.

[00:32:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:32:03] Um, and that's great because that was going to be my very next question.

[00:32:07] Dan Clark: [00:32:07] So yeah, I mean, I, you know, for me specifically, like I'm, I'm, I've always, you know, I was always working for them. Um, I'm not an early riser, right? I am now I wake up at seven o'clock, but for a long time I could not function.

[00:32:23] And I, you know, I dropped out of high school because of it. Um, and if you ever talked to my teachers, they would say this kid's not going to go anywhere. Um, and it wasn't until I started realizing, you know, tools through martial arts and tools through brain FM on, you know, how I can use these tools to be better.

[00:32:42] And, you know, after I saw the, to answer your question, but, um, you know, I think. That's what brain FM is. Ultimately, it's a tool, you know, we can't build a house for you, but we're the hammer that lets you build a house more effectively than, you know, without a tool. You know? So I think that's, that's [00:33:00] important.

[00:33:00] Um, as far as feedback we get from customers, um, we have, you know, over 2 million downloads and many users from around the world. Um, we actually have an internal channel called love letters and raving fans. And, um, we have, you know, from people saying this is the best thing ever. Um, too, some people have lowered their medication, you know, with ADHD, you have some people that, um, are, you know, like literally crying while they write emails and, um, really hard, you know, testimonials of how we've had a major impact in their life.

[00:33:32] Um, and you know, without getting into too many details and sharing things that I can't, um, you know, this is the reason why. Ultimately we build brain FM is, is to really harness that, um, you know, we have, we, we don't like right now, we've been really focusing on the science and really focusing on the company, uh, for, you know, the next 10 years and really laying the foundation where right now we don't do [00:34:00] a lot of marketing.

[00:34:01] Um, and even with that being said, we still have tens of thousands of people that come to us, um, every week to try us out because it's all referrals right now. Um, and that really, I guess, goes, goes to beyond, you know, me just coming on here and saying how great it is. Um, it's really like our customers that are shouting about, Hey, there's this secret tool that I've found that lets me become a superhuman.

[00:34:27] Um, and again, that's why we do it.

[00:34:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:34:32] I love it. I love it. I keep pausing after you're done speaking because I'm taking it all in. And the thing is that I'm, you know, speaking of that, that notion of super power being a superhero. I, I agree with you. I think we all have our own unique. My focus is almost always creativity and innovation, but I think we all have our own unique genius.

[00:34:54] Your, you know, unique, creative genius, innovative genius, whatever it is, we all have something [00:35:00] that sets us apart. And I'm wondering, what are the uses do you think of looking forward instead of, and, and I forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn, but this notion of using brain FM for. Accessing the parts of your creative genius, for example, that you want to access being very purposeful with those kinds of actions while using the app.

[00:35:25] What are your thoughts about doing that? About someone who goes, I want to hack my creative center and I want to really open it up. Can the app do that? Will the app be able to do that? Do you want the app to be able to do that? What are your thoughts on that?

[00:35:39] Dan Clark: [00:35:39] Ooh, lots of really great questions. Um, so I think, you know, the first, so there's some things that I can say, and there's some things that I can't say because we're still, you know, evaluating and looking at things.

[00:35:51] Um, I think the first thing that's important is, and you know, we've talked about this with our science, but we're science first. Um, and that means that [00:36:00] everything that we do we want to make sure is actually true. Um, and we have evidence to show that. And I think that there's a lot of other companies that say they can do X, Y, and Z.

[00:36:11] Um, but when we look at the science and we look at evidence, um, it's not true or it's, it's, you know, oh yeah. We asked, you know, all of our users and we asked how, how good they feel. And they said 10 out of 10. So that means, um, and we, we really like, before I answer this, the reason why see that is because at the end of the day, we want to make a product that actually does better everyone, because it's way easier to focus on just building an amazing product.

[00:36:42] And I think that, um, with that being said, um, there are scientific limitations. Um, so the whole company, you know, we're designed around basically we have neuroscientists on the, on the team. We have a, um, uh, MIT and, um, Harvard graduate that works [00:37:00] for us. Auditory neuroscientists. He's a genius. And the way we create this company is that we fund science directly instead of, um, in other companies where breakthrough happens in science, and then five years later, a product comes out.

[00:37:14] We say, Hey, how can we make it so that we're investing in science? And then that makes the product better because the product's so good. So many people start using us. We have more money to invest in science and the cycle continues. And when I look at the future of where we're at, I think that it's really first is the ability to deliver optimal results for everyone.

[00:37:40] So looking at, um, someone coming in, learning about them and saying, Hey, this is my button. So I can get my creativity when I need to. And I can find that flow state, and I'm really excited. And this is something that I add to my habits. That's really important. Um, if you just use this, like once a month, It, [00:38:00] it will work, but it's way better when you use this consecutively and you train your brain to be creative.

[00:38:06] Um, and we can talk about some of the habits that I would suggest with this, um, program. Um, but then the next thing is, is then for someone to learn more about themselves to your part, right? So now someone looks at wearables and they look at, oh, well for me to get in a really great flow state, you know, I can use brain FM, but I also understand that if I'm drinking coffee, it takes me out of that.

[00:38:30] And I rather drink tea or whatever, you know, and as we start building, I think more connected world with more data, um, I see brain FM being a role or a pillar in that data to be able to help someone understand more about what makes them. Act the way they do, you know, and then be able to help, you know, learn and, and, and do it better, you know?

[00:38:57] So there's, there's definitely a lot of stuff there. [00:39:00] Um, and then I think it goes beyond, which is some of the medical things that we're currently investigating, um, you know, pre and post off I mentioned, but we're also searching Alzheimer's autism, ADHD, um, and a lot of other kinds of methods to help people and excuse me, um, when we combine all of those together, um, you know, it's, it's really exciting.

[00:39:23] Um, you know, one of the reasons why I just love and, and put so much effort into building this company is because it doesn't matter. Anything as long as you're human. So it doesn't matter what language you speak. Doesn't matter how much money you make. Doesn't matter, you know, your sex or your gender, or, you know, all these things.

[00:39:42] It matters that we're all human and our brains are incredibly similar and incredibly unique at the same time. And I think, um, you know, really that's, that's what, um, we're going to see as we move forward is what can science to, what can our human brains do? And then [00:40:00] how can we, you know, always. Live up to the potential.

[00:40:03] We want to be, um, so lots of stuff there, obviously speaking directly from the heart. So I apologize for the, the long tear, but, um, but yeah, I mean, there's, it's definitely a mission driven company for sure.

[00:40:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:40:15] Absolutely. And, and do not apologize ever for speaking from the heart. That, that to me is one of the pillars of, of what makes us a human is, is being able to express ourselves directly from that, that place of where we really believe it.

[00:40:30] And you do. And I think that's amazing. Uh, there, you said a couple of things that, uh, well, you said many things that now I want to spend the next six hours talking to you about, but there, there are some things here that you said that I think are really interesting and you said you want to help everybody.

[00:40:46] And this is one of those ridiculous questions that I'm sure you get, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Um, it is it's about accessibility. So this, you sort of have to be a hearing person. To be able to use [00:41:00] the app. Right. I imagine is there, is there something that can, that can work for someone who is deaf and is there something that can work for someone who is tone deaf, which is different than being than being deaf or hearing impaired?

[00:41:15] Dan Clark: [00:41:15] Yeah, great questions. So first off is, uh, tone deaf actually doesn't, um, block someone from using brain FM because we're not doing tones, we're doing a modulation, so it's the on and offs of things. Um, so actually a lot of people with hearing impairments can still use brain FM. Um, and if you're listening to this and you may have questions about that, reach out to our support team and we'll be able to give you a specific answer.

[00:41:41] Um, but what's really interesting is let's pretend someone can't hear anything at all. Um, we can still help people. And one of the other ways to do this is using light. Um, so what we're, what we're using right now is, is, is sound because it's a neuromodulator right. And that's really those patterns that we're doing.

[00:42:00] [00:42:00] So we can do those patterns, right. And sound in touch. Um, I don't think we could do them in smell. That would be weird, but you know, we have those three mediums that we can play with. Right. And when we, um, do touch through skin, it's called Viber acoustics. Um, your skin can take in, um, modulations. It's just less sensitive way, dramatically, less sensitive than our eyes in our ears.

[00:42:26] Ears are better because we can kind of like hide things, um, in, in hearing. That's why we've chosen audio, but you can also do things in light. And some of the things that we, you know, play with is, you know, doing both of those at the same time, but there's definitely, there's definitely things. For sure that that lot of, uh, that we were on the cusp of investigating and figuring out, um, and, uh, really the, the secret is, again, those modulations that allow us to control and create those patterns for [00:43:00] people.

[00:43:00] Um, you know, the one reason why we don't do light is because I think it's like one out of 18,000 people have, um, epilepsy, epilepsy. Yeah. And, and this is something that can't, that people don't have with sound. So, uh, bringing in femme is actually the safest medium for a neuromodulator at the current time.

[00:43:19] And, um, that's why, like everything is purpose built and designed, um, for safety as well as, you know, making sure that we have, you know, the right effects. Um, so, you know, there may be ways around it around, you know, epilepsy and things of that nature, but that's really the future to, to find out. Um, and yeah, I'm curious.

[00:43:39] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:39] Wow. Fantastic. I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay. Uh, again, I, as I said, I can keep you for the next six hours. And so I have just a few more questions if it's okay with you.

[00:43:52] Dan Clark: [00:43:52] Yeah, of course. This is fun. I mean, I'm very, very, I can talk about this all day.

[00:43:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:57] Oh, yay. Good. So [00:44:00] a lot of the things that you said, you know, especially looking at visual and everything, I come back to the amygdala.

[00:44:06] I come back to that notion of the spot in the brain, the process, you know, takes in what you see and takes and what you hear and decides if there's danger. And this is a strange question, but if you're a long time brain FM user, is it really just like a T turn it on, turn it off, or is it going to develop.

[00:44:29] Um, like I know that once you're in, once the groove has been developed at the neural pathway, it's, it's more likely that that, that particular neural pathway will go again. So is there ever a time that you envision that people will not need brain FM because they've developed those groups for themselves?

[00:44:46] Or is it always going to be a there's the sympathetic nervous system? There's the parasympathetic nervous system and depending on which one needs to be fired up right now, that's what the amygdala and the hypothalamus are going to do. Do you have thoughts about that? And if so, what

[00:44:58] Dan Clark: [00:44:58] are they? Yeah, [00:45:00] so we have some first notions of it.

[00:45:02] Um, but we haven't done science on long-term effects of brain FM, um, for, you know, years and years and years. Um, but we have done, uh, some, I guess, leading, um, research and that basically shows that, uh, it's kind of like running, right? So if you become really good at running that there's a certain level of speed that you can achieve.

[00:45:29] Um, that your gains are, I guess, less, um, however, if you get really, really good at running, you still have to run. Right. Um, and you can kind of think of this as almost like a wind on your back, right? So you're running and what we're doing is we're, we're helping you run faster and feel what running faster is like, um, and, and helping, you know, push you along into that.

[00:45:55] And, you know, on one side you could say, well, you know, I was [00:46:00] running six miles an hour and now we can run eight miles an hour. Um, and I know what that feels like. So I'm not going to use this, this wind or this, this effect that's helping me, you know, go two miles faster. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna get to that myself.

[00:46:15] And I think the argument would be, if you can always run faster, you know, with that way, Always run with the wind on your back. You know what I mean? Um, that might be very abstract. Um, what we're finding is that yes, um, as someone uses the product, those neural pathways develop and someone can get into higher creativity or flow state faster.

[00:46:40] Um, and I think that that is really the trigger that allows someone to get there. But I don't, I don't necessarily see this ever being someone. Now doesn't need that, where they can just close their eyes and get into it. Um, but you know, we'll, we'll have to see. Um, and, and ultimately I think that the [00:47:00] goal of what we're really looking for is not necessarily being the training wheels, but being the, uh, vehicle to help someone.

[00:47:09] Um, and, uh, that's, that's really the goal that we have. I think we would, our whole approach would be different if we were a training wheels, you know, program, um, where we want to be, okay, Hey, you don't have to run anymore. You just get in this car and we'll get you there in five minutes. And that's really the goal of, of brain FM, um, at least right now.

[00:47:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:47:31] And that was actually going to be my next, literally, what is the goal? What is your goal for the company? So, um, I do, I, you, you mentioned. That, uh, earlier about habits. I'd love to get your thoughts on the, on, on what you think in sort of an, I know you said you drive the, the person who's using the app drives the bus and they're the ones who choose.

[00:47:51] But if you have habits, if you have thoughts on what is sort of an optimal way of getting into it as a new user, I would love to know that too. But, but if somebody [00:48:00] goes, okay, I'm gonna download the app, I'm gonna see what it's like, what is the best thing? And I, and I, I just gave up caffeine. So I'm very excited to, to hear you say, well, maybe caffeine, isn't great for it.

[00:48:10] So, so tell me, what are some of the habits that someone should have, uh, in order, or might have in order to make best use of the app and habits serve their needs

[00:48:19] Dan Clark: [00:48:19] best? Yeah, of course. So I'm going to say, you know, I'll say some of my habits, but I really encourage people to develop healthy habits that they test themselves.

[00:48:27] Um, that's really important because again, everyone. So, um, the first thing is just, you know, habits. And if you haven't read, um, atomic habits is just a fantastic book that shares how habits really shape our lives. And it's just so important to have those. And again, brain FM is, is not going, it's not a magician, but it is a tool, right?

[00:48:47] So you have to make sure that you are using the tool effectively. And I think with creativity, uh, for your audience, it's very challenging to be creative on demand. Um, and the best way [00:49:00] to develop that is actually to force yourself to try, right? So building in habits of work blocks, and if you look at my calendar, what I actually have is these work sprints where I say, Hey, for the 60 minutes, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I'm going to be creative.

[00:49:22] And you know, what's challenging is when we don't feel like being creative, right. It's by training our brain that, Hey, this is a time where I do creative work and it it's creating these neural pathways. Um, and you know, you are developing how to be creative, um, on a schedule that you want to be rather than when your brain happens to be, you know, so I think that's just extremely important.

[00:49:47] And for me, what I do is I actually have deep works, uh, sessions in the morning. Um, I do, uh, I changed this all the time. So if you hear me on other podcasts, it's because I'm always experimenting myself. [00:50:00] But normally what I do is, uh, I'll put, excuse me, deep work on, in the morning for about 30 minutes or so.

[00:50:06] And in there I take out a journal and I write down the top things that I have to do today. How do I feel? And I do a complete brain dump so I can get all of the feelings and emotions and all that stuff aside. And then I say, what do I have. From there. I basically finished a session with the top things that I have to do.

[00:50:28] I take a break, um, I'll sometimes put on relax music or go for a walk or sometimes at the same time do both. And then I come back and do another working session. And what's really important is, um, you know, developing not only the habits to, you know, sit down and work or could you create a moment, um, you know, creative habits, but also having consistency.

[00:50:52] So for me, I, I drink iced coffee every day. Um, but you can drink ice tea or whatever you need to. Um, but it's really important, you know, have [00:51:00] a clean desk to have the same, because what happens is it builds all of the distractions that could happen that in a new environment, it's all erased. And then all of your energy, you know, using brain FM is then focused into, okay, this is the task that I have in front.

[00:51:19] And what's cool about, you know, again, the tool is not only do we have all of this science and all of these different kinds of things, we also have different tricks that allow you to get engaged. So we actually use 3d spatial technology. Um, so a lot of our music sounds like it's actually coming slightly in front of you, which is almost like drawing your attention to the work that you're doing.

[00:51:40] Um, I forgot to mention that before, but you know, through a combination of habits and then, you know, getting like going to the gym, right. That's, that's really what you're doing. Um, it allows you to constantly perform and then once you're constantly performing, it really helps you break through to the next.

[00:52:01] [00:52:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:52:01] Sure. At some point you hit a plateau, I guess. And then, then from there, that's the springboard up to the next and the next and the next. And I, I love that. Uh, let me, let me ask you, this is you've, you've mentioned, you've mentioned bits and pieces, but I'd love to know what your, what your Dan, what your mission is for, for your company.

[00:52:23] What is the mission that you have long-term to change the

[00:52:28] Dan Clark: [00:52:28] world? Yeah, so the, the real mission is to empower everyone around the world to be their best self on demand, full stop, you know, um, I think a lot of people in life, um, you know, through different kinds of mechanisms, they never, they, they get obstructed from their goals and they, they get obstructed by the goals by having maybe, you know, previous failures or having writer's block or, you know, um, motivation block, or maybe it's just being.

[00:52:59] Too into their [00:53:00] goals and being too stressed out where they need a perspective change or they can't sleep. You know? And, and what I, what I believe truly is that if we enable people to be their best self and whatever that means for that individual, whether it means curing, um, or not necessarily caring, but helping them treat, you know, um, their sleep challenges or helping them achieve flow state when they want to, or helping them chill out because they work really, really hard and they just need to take 10 minute breaks.

[00:53:30] Um, if we can do that, then collectively as a human race, we enable everyone to help each other more effectively. And if I can be the, um, I don't know, the, the conduit to allow people to really unlock their true potential. Um, that's my mission in life and also mission at brain-a-thon.

[00:53:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:53:57] I'm taking all of this in. That was, that was lovely. [00:54:00] Uh, and I love, I love the notion of collective change based on everybody feeling better, being better and doing better. My, my, my word for this, for this year. And hopefully for the next 40, 60, 80 years is compassion. And it sounds to me like compassion for yourself.

[00:54:24] If you start with yourself, then it, then things, you know, things sort of flow from there. And with brain FM, How, what is the thought for you there? As far as you know, you're doing relaxation, you're doing sleep and you're doing focus. What about in gendering feelings of joy or, or feelings of compassion or anything like that?

[00:54:49] Like can, can the app, is that something that you would ever be interested in in helping people with someone who might have challenges of depression or anxiety to, [00:55:00] to address some of those challenges with this

[00:55:04] Dan Clark: [00:55:04] app? Yeah, it's, it's a great, great question. Um, and we, we are definitely working on it. I can tell you that.

[00:55:11] Um, it's, it's a little bit, it's, it's complicated. Um, I, I guess it's the simplest way. Um, and that reason is because joy is derived from things. Um, and if we gave someone artificial joy, That doesn't necessarily fix where joy comes from, you know, and I think that as we look at it and we peel this back, um, joy also means different things for different people and how they experience joy.

[00:55:41] So it's a very convoluted challenge. And one of the reasons why we, we specifically don't say, we can make you happy, but we can help you focus, which will make you happy. Um, the, our angle on that is, is again, if we can help people be better or more efficient in [00:56:00] the activities they're doing, then they can move one step closer to treating, um, certain core problems, I guess, or core challenges.

[00:56:13] Um, and we, we definitely have people that have, have, you know, touted us as the cure, as their personal care for, you know, depression or, um, really, really challenging times in their life. Um, we have many, many people that write to us about that. Um, but I, I don't, because again, we're science first. I don't feel comfortable ever saying that we are the cure for that, but we can help people achieve it and we'll help them look for it together kind of thing.

[00:56:40] Um, unless something changes in our research.

[00:56:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:56:45] Interesting. And that just made me come back to the question of awareness. Like self-awareness when, when I'm using the app, one of the things that happens is that there is that there is again, that flow state where Ty and I love that [00:57:00] state when time passed and you don't realize time has passed, you know, because you've been working so into what you're doing, but then there's a self-awareness aspect of it.

[00:57:08] And that's the slowing down. And the difference there for me is sort of the sympathetic versus the parasympathetic nervous system. So in the relaxation part, what happens if, if you, if you have any data on this, what happens to people's sense of self when they're in that relaxed state? Not so much the focus state, but the relaxed one?

[00:57:29] Dan Clark: [00:57:29] Uh, yeah. Great question. Um, it's something that w you know, we, we do have to do more research in, um, the, the challenging stuff with gathering data for. Some of those states is that it's very personal and introspective and there's not a lot of site like, like purely scientific, like, uh, analysis to like, you know, figure that out.

[00:57:55] Um, it's more, it's more of a personal thing, but you [00:58:00] know, with, with flow state, with relaxation, with meditation, I think, you know, self-awareness is really what happens from it because it's a perspective change. And I I'm I'm want to be certain and say that this is me talking about myself personally, but I think when I breached these higher states or these more developed states that I'm currently, you know, operating in, it allows me to really be, uh, you know, turned into more of an observer as, you know, you're working or as you're relaxing and.

[00:58:31] Break the cycle of doing, and now the cycle of, you know, understanding a little bit, um, which enables us to, you know, work on ourselves. Um, I, this actually reminds me of the habits thing, and I think what's interesting is that, you know, humans are really the only animals that can look at themselves and change anything about themselves that they want to, including their habits and the way they think and all of that.

[00:58:58] And when we go [00:59:00] to the deepest level, um, it's us first wanting to change us saying, I am going to change, and this is a plan that I'm going to do. I'm not going to say that to myself anymore. I'm going to do this instead. And then, you know, work and correct it and build, and you know, that's, what's inspiring and why I want, you know, personally, and then why the company is set up to help people be their best self.

[00:59:24] Because if we can do that, we can allow people to work. All the other things that, um, you know, people can really, you know, dive into and, and, um, you know, brain FM is just definitely not the one-stop solution. It's one of many tools, but, um, you know, it definitely enables people to, um, unlock different levels that they didn't maybe know they had and then start questioning and, and, you know, bettering and, and, um, exploring.

[00:59:57] And I think that's, um, you [01:00:00] know, an exploration and mindfulness or whatever it may be. Um, and it's a personal journey journey.

[01:00:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:00:07] It does sound like it's an individual journey. And it's one that I think I come back to the notion of small steps are still steps. Right? So if you, if you do it 100%, you build the habit of it.

[01:00:20] That, yeah. It just makes, it makes all the difference in the world because you always, like you said, you come, you eventually get to that plateau where you're like, okay, now I'm ready for the next level, the next step. And, and it sounds like brain FM. And it certainly, I mean, for me, you know, I'm a convert. I love, I love the, the state of being able to focus pretty deeply on the things that I choose to focus on instead of being distracted away from things.

[01:00:49] So I think that, because we're hyper-stimulated and I wonder about that. I know again, I told you only a few more questions, but there is something here to me that [01:01:00] we are living in a really hyper-stimulated. World where there's stuff coming at us all the time, whether it's texts or social media or the, you know, the streetlights or whatever, when, when you're in that state of hyperstimulation and you put in the headphones or the earbuds or whatever, and you put on brain FM, is there ever a war between the hyperstimulation of all the stuff going on around you versus what brain FM helps you do?

[01:01:30] And if so, how does that work?

[01:01:33] Dan Clark: [01:01:33] Yeah, so, you know, really, I wouldn't necessarily say it a war, but we are. The mirror of the environment that we're in. Right? So, you know, when we're in, we're surrounded by technology, we're surrounded by distractions. And because of that, our brain is hyperactive. It's, it's always bouncing around different things.

[01:01:54] What do you put in brain FM what's happening is you're changing your environment first for sound. [01:02:00] So you're kind of insulating yourself and escaping a little bit of some of the things. And especially with sound canceling headphones, it's like the perfect fit. Um, and then because of that, then you start mirroring a different environment.

[01:02:13] And this new environment is the music and the different kinds of science in the music, which enables us to truly have a different response to a different ed environment. Um, And then that has the effect. Um, you know, as we talked about that's triggers these other actions.

[01:02:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:02:32] Yeah. Yeah. I liked the entrainment that you mentioned earlier,

[01:02:35] Dan Clark: [01:02:35] 100%.

[01:02:36] You got it.

[01:02:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:02:36] Right, right, right, right. Got it. Okay. Yeah, that was, that was, I was like, Hmm. There was one other little thing that I wanted to make sure about. And I'm so glad that you addressed it. Well, Dan. Thrilled to pieces that you took the time to be here. And I would love it. If you wouldn't mind give speaking of hyperstimulation, if you could give where someone who's [01:03:00] going, I need brain FM, where they can find you, if you have social media channels or anything like that, that, that someone who wants to know more could go to, I would love it.

[01:03:08] If you'd say what those are, there'll be in the show notes, but people learn differently as we both know. So I'd love it. If you could say it so people can hear it too. Yeah.

[01:03:15] Dan Clark: [01:03:15] Yeah, of course. So you can go onto the app stores and download bringing data FM, or you can go to brain.fm. Um, so it's, it's just, you know, brain.fm and that'll bring you to our website, which, um, we actually have free trials for everyone to do no credit card required, um, which allows people to fully feel the music with no pressure or stress or anything like that.

[01:03:38] Um, and really see, is this something that, um, they can integrate it into their life? Um, so, you know, if you're interested, feel free to give it a shot. Um, it is something that, um, you know, I personally, uh, love and still use every single day and so to a many other million people. So I'm very excited to be here and, uh, [01:04:00] really enjoyed the conversation.

[01:04:01] Um, and I'll definitely, uh, have to come back to that.

[01:04:05] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:04:05] Oh, that's great. I appreciate it. And do you have time for one more question?

[01:04:09] Dan Clark: [01:04:09] Sure. One more. Let's

[01:04:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:04:10] do it. Okay. It's a simple question. I ask everyone who's on the show. It's really simple, but it, I find that it yields some profound answers. And here's the question.

[01:04:20] If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?

[01:04:26] Dan Clark: [01:04:26] Oh, uh, that's not a simple question. Um, I let's see if I had an airplane to write anything in the sky. What would I say? Um, I don't know. Uh I'm I, you probably can't write paragraphs in the sky, huh? Um, I know, I, I don't know.

[01:04:45] I would just, it's all it, like, it all comes down to really passion, I think. Um, and, and, and belief. And I think that I always encourage people to find, uh, the thing that [01:05:00] makes them, you know, really alive and feels like they're doing things, um, and really, um, you know, allows them to be that. And, you know, there may be some people hearing this that are in a job that maybe they love, or they don't love, but it allows them to do something that they love.

[01:05:17] And I think that's, you know, that's really important and, and allowing people to be better again, um, finding passion and, and wanting to be better, um, allows people to do that. Um, I think maybe I would refine that word and say curious, um, you know, curiosity, you know, curious to be better curious to fully explore life.

[01:05:39] Um, I think that's something that, um, you know, I I'm sure everyone listening to this podcast already shares, but I'd love it. Um, you know, if the world was more curious as a whole.

[01:05:50] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:05:50] All right. I think be more curious is probably a really good thing to say up in the sky. Uh, Dan, Dan, once again, thank you so much.

[01:05:57] I appreciate you being here. This [01:06:00] is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. This has been an incredible conversation. I'm so thrilled that Dan Clark joined me. If you want to know more about brain FM, you know what to do, go find it, go download it, go use it. I personally love it until next time I remind you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[01:06:24] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[01:06:41] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can [01:07:00] always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.