The Creative Solutions Podcast

How Bob Lesser‘s Peak Performance Formula Can Turn You Into a Peak Performer

Bob Lesser, Author, Coach, Psychotherapist on His Peak Performance Formula and How it Can Help You Become a Peak Performer

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset
If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

It's also brought to you by Gloria Chou's PR Starter Pack. If you want to get featured in the media, this is your best first step. https://izoldat.krtra.com/t/so6Aw0yCuva4

Bob Lesser is a founder, psychotherapist, and executive coach. From 2010-2017 Bob founded and led Mott Hall Charter School, an innovative public school serving low-income students in the South Bronx section of New York City. The school combined rigorous academics with cutting-edge social and emotional health supports enabling its students to defy the odds and attend top, college-bound high schools in New York and beyond. During that time Bob managed a rapidly growing organization that tripled in size over three years. Bob is also a trained psychotherapist and executive coach working primarily with start-up founders in the San Francisco Bay Area, New York City, Boston, Canada, and elsewhere. He studied management, negotiation, and leadership at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government where he holds a Master's Degree and obtained his BA in sociology from Vassar College. Bob lived in Vietnam where he studied meditation and Buddhism. He lives in Oakland, California with his wife and three children.

Connect with Bob to Learn More About Peak Performance

Twitter - @lesser_bob

Instagram - @bob_lesser

www.boblesser.com

https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-1-951412-20-3

 

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Bob Lesser: The purpose helps us clarify what really matters. And it points us to what we should be using our skills and talents for. It gives us courage to act in conditions of uncertainty and difficulty, and it functions as both. This kind of it's sort of a grounding for us, but it also helps us move forward. So it's kind of like our north star.

[00:00:25] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello, and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg. On the show, I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you.

[00:00:43] Focus meditate and even sleep. I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some of my deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% [00:01:00] off with the coupon code, innovative mindset.

[00:01:03] And now let's get to the show.

[00:01:09] Hey there. And welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm your host. I'm super happy that you're here and I'm really excited to speak to this week's guest. You have got to hear this. This is so cool. Bob lesser is a founder psychotherapist and executive coach. From 2010 to 2017,

[00:01:28] bob founded and led. Mott hall, charter school an innovative public school, serving low income students in the south Bronx section of New York city. And you know how much that is close to my heart since I'm a new Yorker. Now the school combined rigorous academics with cutting edge, social and emotional health supports, enabling its students to defy the odds and attend top college bound high schools in New York and beyond.

[00:01:50] Yes, I'm all about education. So this is thrilling for me. During that time, Bob managed a rapidly growing organization that tripled in size over three years. [00:02:00] He's also a trained psychotherapist and executive coach working primarily with startup founders in the San Francisco bay area, New York city, Boston, Canada, and all sorts of other places.

[00:02:10] He said he management negotiation and leadership at Harvard's Kennedy school of government, where he holds a master's degree and obtained his BA in sociology. From foster college, Bob lived in Vietnam. Wow. Where he studied meditation and Buddhism also. Wow. He lives in Oakland, California with his wife and three children.

[00:02:27] Bob, thank you so much for being on the show. Welcome

[00:02:29] Bob Lesser: pleasure. Or that, that guy that you just introduced. Sounds really interesting. I'd love to hang out, hang out with them.

[00:02:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Let's go have a cup of coffee,

[00:02:36] Bob Lesser: hard to, hard, to hard to believe, but that's me. My hair at all.

[00:02:41] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah. I, you know, all at once it can sometimes be a little like really.

[00:02:45] Okay. I guess that yes, I did that step into that power. Right. So I I'm, I am excited beyond. Imagining talking to you about everything that you've done. I'm a huge proponent of education. I was a NASA master [00:03:00] trainer working in schools all over the world for many years. And I, I want, I'm dying to find out from you how you combined.

[00:03:09] The flow of I'm going to start an innovative public school working with low-income students to being an executive coach for fortune 500 companies. Where, how did that start and what led you down that path?

[00:03:24] Bob Lesser: Yeah, it's a, it's a great question. And I think it's, it's kind of the crux of it is, has to do with purpose and has to do with.

[00:03:33] Identifying sort of the essence of who I am and the impact that I want to have. And so, you know, like most of us, you know, young getting out of college, you know, trying to figure out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, or at least, you know, the next few years of my life. Following following my passions, I'm a native new Yorker.

[00:03:52] I came back to New York city and, and participated in a very cool fellowship in New York city government called the New York city urban fellows [00:04:00] program and worked in city government for the first, the first part of my career first at the New York city correction department. And then for the New York city police department and ultimately from the New York city department of education.

[00:04:12] Where I worked with aspiring school leaders who were founding schools, founding new schools, founding charter schools. And we're creating these innovative new school models. And I got into my, into my head that I could do it just as well or better than the folks that I was I was working with and supporting.

[00:04:31] And so I pulled together a team and we wrote up a charter application and. We got approved and we opened a school and that school was my hall charter school, which, which coincidentally is, is celebrating its 10 year anniversary this year. And yeah, and so so I did that and I did it and it was really hard.

[00:04:51] It was, it was, it was harder than I ever thought it would be. And it really kicked me out. And while I think I did a great job, I also know that [00:05:00] I was quite exhausted by, you know, the, the fourth year, the fifth year. And I was kind of running out of gas and I knew I needed to hand it over to somebody who had, you know, sort of like hand the Baton to somebody who had more energy and, and, and, and, and, and, and endurance and more passionate about.

[00:05:17] Than I had. And, you know, I found a great successor and transferred, you know, transition the leadership of the school over to her, and she's still there and doing an amazing job. And when I was really soul searching about, well, what, what, you know, what's next for me? And what about this experience is you know, was essential.

[00:05:36] What I determined was that it was, it was that process of start. Creating something from nothing. That was what my passion was and, and what kind of, what my sort of deeper purpose was, was that sort of create that, that, that component of creativity, you know, taking an idea and making the reality and doing the heavy lifting of getting it up and running.

[00:05:57] And so that's how I transitioned over then to working [00:06:00] with with founders as an executive coach. And working primarily now with founders of startups mostly in the, in the tech startup space, because that's, you know, that's obviously, that's sort of where the, the sort of the, the, the startup ecosystem is still working with some education leaders and organizations.

[00:06:17] But primarily we're working with some of the kind of best and brightest minds in Silicon valley helping to, you know, get these amazing ideas that they have for changing the world off the ground.

[00:06:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yea, all of that. I I'm going gonna, I want to take a second and, and sort of so-called have that in because every word that you just said was music to my ears.

[00:06:40] And first of all, kudos to you for realizing when your work with the school was done and passing the Baton. I think that's, that's very self-aware and, and I'm grateful that you. That you did that because it allowed you to go to this next place. And you said, you're going to, you're you're moving into, or you've moved [00:07:00] into working with tech startups who want to change the world, which again, music to my ears.

[00:07:04] And yet I can't help thinking that there, that that word that you used early on purpose is really a part of. The sort of the foundation of what you do. And it seems like it was that way with students and it seems like it could be. And is that way with the founders that you're working with in Silicon valley?

[00:07:24] Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by purpose? Is that an internal purpose or is it the purpose of the startup or what you want for other people to experience? How does all of that flow and what do you bring to it? And.

[00:07:40] Bob Lesser: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It start, it starts off as a very individual thing is, is what is my purpose?

[00:07:45] What's my why. And the way I, I define it is it's really the expression of what's most deeply meaningful. You can know who you are at your essence. We've we all have this sort of deeper level of purpose of, of kind of [00:08:00] who we are at our essence. What's most deeply meaningful to us. And you know, it, it purpose helps us clarify what really matters and it points us to what we, what we should be using our skills and talents for.

[00:08:14] Right. It gives us, it gives us courage to act in conditions of uncertainty and difficulty, and it functions as both this kind of it's sort of a grounding for us, but it also helps us move forward. So it's kind of like our north star. And so knowing, knowing our essence, knowing who we are at our essence and how we want to express that in the world is in my mind, that's required for anyone that wants to do anything.

[00:08:41] And, you know, starting, starting a company, you know, that it has never been started before in you know building and creating a product that's never been created before creating anything that's never been, been done before, or, or even that you've never done before is going to be hard. And so having this strong sense of grounded.

[00:08:59] [00:09:00] Of this is part of this is deeply personal and meaningful to me and, and it's, it's on purpose for me. So it starts with that and it starts, and that's often where I start with the founders that I work with is helping them to clarify their purpose and articulate their purpose. Purpose also extends to organizations, organizations need to know why they exist.

[00:09:22] They need to know, you know, kind of who they are at essence and so far. So great organizations have well articulated purpose statements and, and purpose has kind of for many organizations supplanted, the old mission statement, you know, the sort of, you know, we exist to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:09:41] Versus. Our purpose is, this is, this is why we exist. This is our why, this is why we do this work. As one request an organization, this is the impact that we seek to have. And so it's, it's very powerful for organizations as well, to know who know who they are, know what impact they're trying to have [00:10:00] and be able to clearly articulate that for both their employees and their clients or customers or people they serve.

[00:10:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And I would imagine. Extending that to the community, the organization is in that, that, that, that knowledge of purpose serves a bigger ecosystem than just the organization or the company. Can you talk a little bit about. If, if there is, because one of the things that I do when I work with people and companies and organizations, we talk a lot about compassion.

[00:10:32] That's that's in intwined with purpose and compassion to me means that you're not just thinking about yourself or your organization. You're thinking about how you. Everyone in that ecosystem for you, when you work with a founder who has this vision to make these changes, how much of the extended family, if you will, are you focusing on or is it first an internal process and then maybe someday they'll get to that other place.[00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Bob Lesser: Yeah, that's a great question. I, I, I would say that. The vast majority of ones, you know, sort of, if you take sort of everyone, who's sort of thought about their purpose and has a kind of well articulated sense of, or even a, you know, half halfway, half baked, you know, articulated sense of that purpose.

[00:11:20] It, their purpose has to do with with the community with others. Very rarely is one's purpose solely focused on. Themselves. Okay. And you know, you'll see this, you know, sometimes you'll see this with elite athletes who are sort of, you know, training for themselves training training for, for their own sort of to achieve their own highest potential.

[00:11:39] But very often you'll hear them talk about how they want to be an inspiration or a role model for others. They want to show they want to show that, you know, someone from this city or this town or, or, or this, you know, th this background. Can make it and so, so very, very often I'd say more often than not, there is a component that [00:12:00] involves being of service to inspiring helping others in, in one's purpose.

[00:12:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking all of that in for a second because I, it, the Olympics just happened and we just had all of these people when all of these metals and so many of them. When they were talking about having one we're talking about, you know, winning it for the team or for their country, it's always something that is, that is greater than themselves.

[00:12:29] And when you do the work you do and. Everything I've read about you. Doesn't say that you were specifically with athletes, you're working with founders, but it's still, they're still trying to be the very best. And so I know we're going to talk a little bit about the book that you've written, which I'm excited to delve into, but the big thing, I there's something about the words.

[00:12:51] Cause I talk about this also peak. That just inspires me. It's also, like you said, it's [00:13:00] grounding, but also it lets you fly a little bit because it means that you've, that you've got this vision that you want to achieve someday. Can you talk a little bit about what it means to be a peak performer, physically, mentally, professionally?

[00:13:12] What does peak performer mean to you? That you are spending so much of your life and your work studying it and working.

[00:13:20] Bob Lesser: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My definition of peak performer is, is maybe a little different than, you know, some of the others are some, some, you know, what, what sort of, how it's talked about in the field.

[00:13:30] I defined peak performer as, as being your best, not being the best necessarily, but being your best, really living up to your potential. And it's, and it sort of has two parts to it. One is it is about achieving results or, or, you know, sort of meeting your goals, but it's also about 50. And being, being, and feeling fulfilled.

[00:13:54] And I, I, you know, I kind of believe that one without the other ultimately is kind of [00:14:00] flimsy and on some level is empty. So just achieving you know, without a sense of fulfillment, still feeling like you're not enough or still feeling like you haven't really done what you've been put on earth to do is, is not going to be that satisfying being just fulfilled and sort of feeling great and, you know, You know, feel happy and I'm hanging out on the beach here and, you know without achieving your goals, the things that, you know, you know, you are capable of or you believe you're capable of, or you're, you wonder if you're capable of is also going to ultimately feel this, you know, maybe hedonistic and, you know, at the end of the day, Kind of get boring.

[00:14:35] So it's, it's both of those things. It's achieving your goals that you set for yourself feeling feeling you know, kind of optimal fulfillment and being, being the best that you can be being your best. And that's how I think about peak performance. And I think most, if not everyone wants that.

[00:14:56] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sorry, I'm taking all that in that last sentence made me go. Hmm. [00:15:00] I wonder if they do I do, because, because there are lots of people, you know, I've heard, I've heard therapists say this before that in any moment whoever's doing the, they might be doing the most awful thing, but they are doing the very best they can in that moment.

[00:15:14] And so, so that, so that I get, but at the same time, I wonder sometimes. How, how do you know if you're being a peak performer is somebody who's spending their life on the couch, watching jeopardy and eating Cheetos. Being a peak performer, if that's what they want to do, like if their goal is I'm just going to chill through my life all as well.

[00:15:39] Is that them being a, be a peak performer or is that them being a little lackadaisical about the goals they might have?

[00:15:47] Bob Lesser: Yeah, it's a, it's a kind of a slippery question because if it is truly that person's goal. And if, if I sort of, before I get into [00:16:00] goals, I talk about vision and vision for me is one of the, is one of the peak performance pillars.

[00:16:06] There are three peak performance pillars. There's purpose, there's values, and there's vision. Vision is about where we want to. And in our life, it's, it's the, it's the destination. And the more clear we can be about that, the more, more able we are to design our lives and our actions and behaviors to get there.

[00:16:28] So if that is really, truly Aligned with an in support of one's vision, if, you know, hanging out, you know, sort of on a couch and, you know, eating, what are they eating? Doritos

[00:16:40] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Cheetos.

[00:16:43] Bob Lesser: Yeah. Well, if you know, if they're snacking and that, and they're doing that, you know, you know, for, you know, large parts of the day, and that is, is somehow aligned with their ultimate vision, then yes, I would say, and they're feeling fulfilled and they're achieving then.

[00:16:56] Yes, I would say they are, they are being a peak performer under [00:17:00] my definition. However I would say we, there, there, and this, this is, this is what I, I, I termed the performance paradox. There are a number of ways in which we work against ourselves from really getting what we want, achieving what we want and feeling fulfilled.

[00:17:20] And we can, in some ways, fool ourselves or talk ourselves out. Doing the things that will actually get us what we want or even, or even really being honest about what we want. And so there, there are ways that we're, it's, it's, it's, we're, we're kind of built in and I have sort of five major ways that I think about this.

[00:17:43] We're kind of built to kind of work against ourselves and work against our achievement of what it is we really want.

[00:17:51] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I that's there. Believe it or not. This reminds me of a Terminator movie. I am a huge that my, a friend of mine coined the [00:18:00] term cinephile nose tele parable. That's what it is. I am a cinephile, but he quoted, he, he coined the term tele parable because I use movie quotes.

[00:18:08] To give lessons a lot. And there's a moment in which Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator says, you know, you humans, it is in your nature to destroy yourselves. And what you said kind of sparked that for me, because I I'm sitting here and I'm going, is that part of it? Is it, is, is it that, or is it fear?

[00:18:27] Like what keeps us from acting in our own best interests in, in that.

[00:18:34] Bob Lesser: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I don't think it's, it's this sort of death wish that, you know, sort of Suman Freud talked about early on in his, in his, in his theory. I think it's actually more maladaptive mal adaptive survival mechanisms that have not evolved with us in our, in our modern world and our sort of vestiges of, you know, sort of the old.

[00:18:58] When we were, you know, [00:19:00] evading the, the saber tooth tiger. And when we had predators and when we were, when we were really you know, it was all about survival and, and, and our lives were literally in danger. You know and, you know, for most of us, that's not the case anymore, but our minds and our nervous systems have really not evolved to kind of to meet, meet the demands of the modern world.

[00:19:22] And I think, I think it's mostly, I think it's, it's more of that. And if, if you want, I can, I can also, you know, kind of quickly go over these sort of five things that I think sort of stand in our way of really really, you know, sort of being a peak performer, achieving what. The stage

[00:19:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: is yours.

[00:19:38] Absolutely. I'd love to hear them. Are you

[00:19:40] Bob Lesser: kidding? All right. Wonderful. So the first, the first one is the unconscious mind. This is our unconscious mind. This is where, you know, 95% of the action is happening in our mind is unconsciously out of, out of conscious awareness. We, we don't know it at times. It, it sort of peaks up and become semi-conscious and we have [00:20:00] some, some idea of it, but mostly it's happening out of our conscious awareness.

[00:20:03] These are our organizing patterns. This is where our, our self-limiting beliefs live. You know, it's, it's, I'm not good enough. You know, I'm unworthy, I'm unlovable. You know, the world is unfair. That's where all that stuff lives. It's where our internal saboteurs live. You know, and this sort of, you know, sneaky, you know, and insidious thing called imposter syndrome that many of us face.

[00:20:25] So that's where all of that stuff kind of lurks and it lurks again without our awareness and without our consent and, and it's, but it's there and it's sort of running us you know, personality experts believe that our, our personalities are mostly. Defined by the time we're about five years old in terms of our sort of basic organizing patterns and beliefs about the world.

[00:20:46] So essentially, you know, that means we have a, five-year-old running the show and that's kind of scary to think about, you know, I know at five, at five years old, I was, you know, I was eating dirt. So, you know, So that's the first one, [00:21:00] our unconscious mind. The second one is our self-conscious mind. This is to the X, the extent to which we value and probably overvalue other people's opinions.

[00:21:10] And we are so concerned and worried about what other people will think. How we will look about belonging to the in-group that we it, it, it keeps us from doing things that we want, that we think where we may look dumb, or we may look, you know, we may be rejected. And it also, when we become overly, so self-conscious when we are trying to do, to do, to do something, to perform it impedes performance.

[00:21:35] We we've all been there where, you know, once you start sort of, you know, wondering what other people are thinking about, you, you know, you start, you know, it really messes up. Right. So that's the second one. Self-conscious mind. The third one is, is squarely the sort of biology physiology that I was talking about.

[00:21:50] You know, we're designed to conserve energy as, as animals, as, you know, as a, as a species like other animals are, we want to conserve energy. [00:22:00] We don't want to expend energy when we don't have to. So that is, that is. We may want to sit on the couch and eat Doritos instead of, you know, go out for that run or, you know, do the thing we know that's going to be really hard.

[00:22:10] And so we need to be able to push through that that energy con conservation, because most things that we want to do in life that are going to be really fulfilling and rewarding are also going to be demanding and challenging, and we're going to require us to expend some energy. The other part of that is, you know, this is sort of the.

[00:22:30] No human capacity to worry. Have anxiety stress out that animals, you know, don't have other animals don't have that we have. And it really makes, keeps our nervous systems kind of on high alert. You know? So there's this, this, you know, the stress response system is, is sort of is, is, is, is primed to activate you know, when we get cut off in traffic it's as if the saber tooth tiger is like, is coming to.

[00:22:57] And, and when, you know, when, in fact it's not. [00:23:00] And so so the, the way that our stress response system is sort of is, is, is, is overactive for, for many people, unless somebody, unless you've really trained yourself through meditation and yoga and breathing and, and practices of that, of that nature you are often getting hijacked by your by your amygdala and the stress response.

[00:23:21] System is again, running, running your responses rather than your rational mind. So that's the third one. The F the fourth one is I call the hedonic treadmill. And this is a psychologist Barry Schwartz talks about, about this in his book that the paradox of choice and this to me, the, so the hedonic treadmill is this notion of how we, our brains are wired to be attracted, to shiny the shiny new object, right?

[00:23:47] Novelty novelty is one of the. That our motivation system works. It's how we become excited about things is when they're new and novel. That's great for getting out in the world and sort of finding food and, you know, you [00:24:00] know, you know, kind of inventing tools that are help us survive. But we also quickly get disinterested in things.

[00:24:07] And we get excited about the next. And we get disinterested in that and we get excited about the next thing, and we get disinterested in that. And that's this treadmill, hedonic, treadmill metaphor. And what that does is it makes it hard for us to sustain our focus on things that matter. When things start getting feeling a little mundane or boring, we've got to put in repetition to do things and to become really good at, we got to, we know we have to put in, you know, we've got the 10,000 hour rule.

[00:24:35] It's it's, it becomes hard to stay focused and interested in things. Are meaningful to us, but because of the way our brains work become boring. And our minds you know, men in Buddhism, there's this notion of the monkey mind, the way our minds work, our distracted mind. It's very hard to focus very hard to kind of keep our minds on one thing.

[00:24:58] And [00:25:00] and to not give into this, this hedonic treadmill of, you know, the next shiny new object that we're ultimately gonna get. The last one is this the way our minds are wired for negativity. This is something that, you know, neuroscientists have dubbed the negativity bias. We are much more attuned to and amplify negative things.

[00:25:21] Things that are pretend may be potentially harmful to us. Maybe threatening to us than we are to, you know, the good things. So this is, you know, we're walking through the forest and we're much more attuned to, you know, that twig that looks like a snake, you know and stepping out of the way of that and looking for, you know, looking for anything that might be dangerous than we are noticing the beautiful flowers that you know, can sort of leave us in.

[00:25:48] And so this, this negativity bias really over it has this, over-index some things that may be dangerous or harmful. It leads to anxiety, risk, aversion and pessimism that [00:26:00] you know, is not so helpful to us in our pursuits. When what we really need is optimism, especially when things are getting checked.

[00:26:08] So those are, those are the five, you know, performance paradoxes that I kind of outlined the ways in which, you know, we are in many ways designed to work against ourselves and what it is we really want.

[00:26:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. Wow. Okay. So much, so much. I, I, I appreciate you outlining them and I, a lot of this. First of all, it's so succinct and I'm really grateful that you have it so well down. I'm excited to talk about the book and and see more about how you detail these things. I have a couple of questions though, about, about these five and about something that you said.

[00:26:52] About the five-year-old the, the, the emperor, the five-year-old emperor of your, of your brain. [00:27:00] When you talk about that. Cause I do want to talk about these five pillars, but there's this is, this is something that I wonder about children who go through. For example, if, if we're in that space of child abuse or some other kind of, of trauma of children in war zones, what kind of challenges, extra challenges do those children then have to get past?

[00:27:24] Not just the inner five-year-old, but the trauma that they survived in order to become peak.

[00:27:31] Bob Lesser: Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, they, they, they certainly are going to have organizing patterns, limiting beliefs about themselves in the world that are going to impact how they behave. The actions they take, the actions, they don't take the, the, the relationships with others.

[00:27:51] And You know, not to say that it's going to be, you know, impossible for them. Cause you know, certainly people who have suffered trauma have gone on to [00:28:00] be, you know, perform at the highest selfless to become, you know, to be elite performers. But it's, it's, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna struggle.

[00:28:08] They're gonna suffer in the ways that we all do, but maybe more. And you know, so it does, it does go back to this sort of ultimately the question becomes what are their core beliefs about themselves and what are their core beliefs about the world? And You know, how will that enable them or get in the way of their doing the work to get what it is they want in life and to feel fulfilled doing it.

[00:28:34] So that would be the, sort of the big question that I would have, or I would look at with anyone who has suffered a trauma early. Early in life is, you know, are they are they able to do still do the things that are necessary to achieve their goals and, and feel fulfillment? And a lot of that does come down to, you know, their, their perceptions in themselves or perceptions of others, or ability to have re have healthy relationships[00:29:00] their ability to stay the course when things get difficult and be consistent, you know, the consistency required.

[00:29:06] To do anything worthwhile and challenging. So, you know, certainly not not impossible, but you know, it's, it's it's, it's hard, you know, it's hard anyway. And especially if you've had trauma, hopefully they've been able to get support and get help and, you know, be able to, to, to come to terms, you know, with with what happened and maybe use it as.

[00:29:26] You know, I think, I think you see that in a lot of elite performers who have had early hardship is they've been able to use it as fuel to help motivate them and to keep them going and to sort of, you know you know, and it's, it's, in some ways, you know, built their resilience and their, and their, and their they're on their toes.

[00:29:43] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, it's so interesting that you, that you said that, that, that that's this notion of using it as fuel because these pillars that you're talking about, I can see the self-conscious part of that and the sort of the expectation of being cared for as a baby, all of a sudden that's [00:30:00] not there. Right? So how people think of you and how you think they think of you is, is an unstable foundation.

[00:30:07] So that's why I was wondering about how someone who has survived trauma. Deal with these five pillars and, and still perform at a peak level. I wonder the other one that I, that sort of was like, Hmm. What about people who have attention deficit issues? How do they deal with those issues to then sort of climb up and become peak performers?

[00:30:34] Bob Lesser: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, hopefully, you know, they have been able to find ways to manage their ADHD. They've maybe they've found, you know, a meditation practice. Maybe they found medication that has worked for them. Hopefully they've chosen endeavors that are well sort of, well-suited to you know, to sort of you know, maybe more distractable.

[00:30:57] And, you know, have maybe gravitate it to something that, you know, [00:31:00] maybe, you know, that's like sort of like startup entrepreneurs tend to be people who are like interested in a lot of things and you have to be focused on a lot of different things when you're starting and leading a company. And, and so, you know, hopefully they found pursuits that are.

[00:31:14] You know, sort of you know, not impeded, not overly impeded by, you know, their, their challenges in focusing. And you know, and yeah, it's, you know, you know, again, you know, I think. These, these couple of questions that you have you know, we're all, we are all flawed. We are all, you know, challenged, we all suffer.

[00:31:37] So, so it is, it is the human condition and it is about figuring out. How to work within the constraints that we have to meet our highest potential. And we all have constraints, you know, I am never going to be an NBA basketball player because I'm five, seven. Right. So, you know, and I'm never going to be an astronaut because I'm too old [00:32:00] right now.

[00:32:00] So these are real constraints. So when we talk about one's potential, we're not talking about, you know The sort of, you know sort of potential without constraints. And I think that's important is for us all to understand who we are, what the constraints are that are, are kind of, you know, sort of you know, that we're, we're working with.

[00:32:19] And so the question becomes, how do we maximize ourselves, given the constraints that we face, given who we are. And, and, and not, you know, deny those things or not be ashamed of those things, but to really know, like, this is a constraint I have, so I got, I have to work with, you know, I have to work with it.

[00:32:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And that goes back right to the very first thing you said, which was, it's not about being the best, it's about being your best. Right. And, and I, I love that. And it ties beautifully into this idea of, of what you said about vision values and purpose that having that amalgam and then being able to work through.

[00:32:58] And with it allows you to get to [00:33:00] that place, which dovetails beautifully into talking about the peak performance formula, your book. I would love it. If you would talk a little bit about, let me, let me just give the whole title because I love it. I think it's so wonderful. The peak performance formula, achieving breakthrough results in life and work.

[00:33:17] Yes. You're again, you're singing my song, Bob. So I would love to hear from you a little bit about. First of all, what prompted you to write it? And second of all, what is it that you want the book to do for the people who read it?

[00:33:34] Bob Lesser: Yes. Well, what prompted me to write it was really, you know, I, you know, work with my clients is an executive coach.

[00:33:42] And prior to that, as a psychotherapist and, you know, do this really. Intentional work that you know, yields great results helps people to be their best and developing tools and techniques throughout the years that have been really effective in helping people deal [00:34:00] with the. Unique, but not but unique, but also somewhat universal challenges that that, you know, these, these founders and executives and leaders you know, we're facing and.

[00:34:13] I wrote the book because I wanted to make it accessible to a larger audience, not just, you know you know, the, the, the you know, the, the tech, startup CEO, or though, you know, leader of the big organization you know, that I'm working with to my executive coaching practice, but I want to make it accessible to really anyone, anyone who's trying to get better at anything, whether that's, you know, a student who's trying to get their grades up in school, you know, The new college grad, that's trying to figure out how to, you know, kind of, you know what to do with, with, you know, the sort of next phase of their lives.

[00:34:43] A manager in a company who is trying to move up somebody who's thinking about starting their own company you know, really anyone who's like, you know, I need some tools and tactics to to, to. Achieve the things that I, that I want to achieve. And I, and I want to do it in a way that [00:35:00] is about me, what matters to me and will bring me fulfillment, not what society says or thinks I should do.

[00:35:06] So, so that that's, that's why. To sort of make it, make it try and make that more accessible. And the set was the second part of the

[00:35:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: question. What is it that you want readers of the book to get out of it? Like what, what is, what is your desire for someone picks up the book reads it? What do you want them to have that they didn't have before they picked up the book?

[00:35:31] Bob Lesser: Yeah, I, I think it's, it's a sort of tools and tactics to, to allow each individual reader to become a peak performer in their, in their own lives. And, and, and, you know, make the kind of you know, breakthrough achievements that maybe have. Holding the things that have been holding them back or or things that they've been, you know, really wanting to do, but just, you know, you haven't had the tools to do that to really provide those, [00:36:00] those sort of tangible tools and tactics to allow people give people some tools to really know themselves, better understand themselves better.

[00:36:07] There's a lot of that in the book of, you know, helping them, giving them guided exercises to. Define what their purpose is to articulate their core guiding values, to to articulate their vision from, for themselves and where they want to go in their lives. So, so, so that sort of self knowledge, then those tools and tactics to, you know, to be one's best to, you know, transform, you know, the imposter syndrome, if that's something that they face to.

[00:36:39] Con be able to come to see failure as, you know, not somebody to be scared of, but actually something to embrace to, you know, really make sure that they are doing the sort of baseline things that we know will help anyone trying to do to do anything important in their lives around physical health and energy [00:37:00] management training one's mind.

[00:37:02] To again, overcome some of these performance paradoxes that we talked about in the beginning and to sort of master the techniques that they need to master in whatever endeavor it is that they're that they're pursuing and to, to, to, you know, use tried and true tools and tactics to do that.

[00:37:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: You keep stopping me. I kind of go, ah, I need to take all this in because there's so much there's so, so much rich stuff in, in, in what you're saying, something that I'm really curious about with, within that. I love that it's tactical. I love books that, that don't just go, let me just strategize for you.

[00:37:39] And then you go and try and do it all by yourself. So I'm so glad that that's, that that's in the book. Something that I. That I'm wondering about is when, like you've said this a couple of times already, not in these words, but that we have a tendency toward entropy that we kind of don't [00:38:00] work at our best within the book.

[00:38:04] What are the steps? Someone who has that tendency to sit on the couch and eat Cheetos and then dream about doing more. What's the first step? What do they do for.

[00:38:16] Bob Lesser: That's a good question. I mean, I, I start, the book starts with. Because I think, I think purpose is this really, this sort of motivator, the purpose gives us motivation, the stronger our purposes.

[00:38:28] The more motivated we will be, the more motivated we are, the more energy we will direct to do something. It'll get us off the couch, the stronger our purposes. And, you know, you hear these stories about, you know, parents were able to lift heavy cars up, you know, you know, to save their children, you know, this sort of the strength.

[00:38:46] It, that comes from purpose, the motivation, the energy that comes from purpose. So I like to start there because that is a sort of an Energizer. And then, you know, I, I do think [00:39:00] You know, vision coming, you know, really helping people sort of co if they, if they don't have that strong vision from themselves.

[00:39:06] Cause that's that you know, Lewis, Carroll, the author said, you know, if you don't know where you're going, any road, any road will do. And, and so, you know, we need to know where we're going, where we want to go. And once we know that once we have a, a as clear a picture of where we want to go, what we want in life as we can, then we can start to set some goals around it that are based on you know, this, this, this real, you know sit this real sense of like, wow, if I could, you know, if I could just make it.

[00:39:37] You know, how great would that be? And so, so then, you know, so you've got the, you've got purpose, you've got vision and then values are the beliefs that drive our behaviors. And so once we begin to, you know, we, we know who we are, what's deeply meaningful to us or energized around that. Our purpose, we have our vision, which is telling us, you know, Hey, this is kind of, this is where I want to [00:40:00] go.

[00:40:00] I've got some now some concrete goals that are gonna are gonna make sure that. I'm getting there, then our values become about what are the behaviors that are going to, if I do those things day in, day out, I practice those behaviors day in, day out. They're gonna, they are gonna you know, kind of like the oars of you know, of a, of a canoe.

[00:40:20] They're going to row me in that, in that right direction. They're going to be the thing, that sort of guy that keeps me moving in that right direction through these, through. Practice of these core values. So that's how the kind of the peak performance formula works in practice. So purpose, vision values.

[00:40:39] Come together to give us this really strong foundation. And then, and that's the first part of the book. And then the second part of the book is about these sort of tools and tactics. And these are these things, you know, you know, I break down into sort of three categories, you know, physical, the physical.

[00:40:54] The second is that is, is, is the ticket. And the third is, is, is the mind [00:41:00] training the mind? So the physical is, is stuff that we, most of us know about. But we need to be reminded about, about the optimal amount of sleep to get that kind of diets. We should be eating the ways we should be moving our body and the amount of exercise we should be getting the ways we should really be managing our energy to optimize that energy for the things that are important.

[00:41:20] That the technique piece is giving people some, some tools through a method called deliberate practice. Your PR you probably need to get better at you're at some technique. So if you know, part of my goal or vision is maybe to, you know, play competitive tennis I'm going to need to work on aspects of my game.

[00:41:38] I'm going to need to, you know, practice my, you know, my serve or my overhead, or, you know, whatever shot needs improving or shots need improving. So I, I need to I need to design some deliberate practice in order to actually get better. At the, at my craft. And so, so that section of the book really addresses some best [00:42:00] practices and how to improve your technique and whatever it is you're trying to improve.

[00:42:04] The third, third piece of this is, is training the mind. And this, this, again goes back to a lot of the performance products stuff that gets in our way. And this is through, you know, through things like meditation. Practice, you know, I'm a big proponent of, of meditation because of the, you know, the, the incredible benefits that it has and the scientific data that is now available, that backs up the benefits of meditation in terms of, of, you know, what it can do for our nervous system, our immune system how it can help us focus and constant.

[00:42:35] Better. And so it's really this mental training. That's important in order to kind of, and, you know, and, and to overcome the negativity bias, to be able to practice optimism and learn to I learned optimism. So things of that nature tools of that nature that are gonna help us to have some control over our minds to, you know, kind of make sure that we're able to stay on the [00:43:00] path of, of, of our, of our vision.

[00:43:06] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Again, I'm thinking I want to take all of that in. Ah, wow. So it's, I mean, yay. This is so exciting and it's, it takes me back to something. That I'm that a lot of times when I work with my own clients, we talk about the, the foundation, which is you have to remind yourself that you deserve to be here. You know, that, that that's so much of it.

[00:43:32] And as a meditator, I that's, that's part of my daily meditation. Right. So when I'm, and I'm gonna use myself as, as the The research tool, I guess when I'm meditating, when I'm in that space. And if I'm trying to do my vision and purpose and values, and I'm trying to get to a place where I feel like I can act on the things that you're talking about, the tactics, the actual step-by-step stuff [00:44:00] that you detail in the book, how do I remain consistent?

[00:44:06] What does someone need to do? If, if for example, they're not having results yet, or, or it's taking a long time or things are moving slower than they might want or need. How do you maintain a consistent level of the practices that, that you outline in the book? If you are someone who's, who doesn't have Bob lesser as a coach to sort of talk through it.

[00:44:30] So you're the you're, you know, Jane Schmoe and you are. Trying to work through and develop these, this, the values, the vision and the purpose.

[00:44:41] Bob Lesser: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's it. It's a good question. There's a couple things. So one of the things I talk about in the book is an as again of practice practices of high-performers one of them is to build.

[00:44:52] Around you that will support you. And, you know, the team is going to look a little different depending on, you know, what it is you are trying to achieve and get [00:45:00] better at and and, and optimize. So, but we all need, we all need a team. We all need a support. We all need support. Nobody does it alone. That team part of that, part of what that team does is hold you account.

[00:45:10] As well as support you. And, and so having a team in place that will help you to stay on track, stay on the path that when things aren't working, we'll brainstorm with you, what's not working, what do we need to do differently? And and, and so, so thinking about yourself, just like athletes, do athletes have their, you know, tennis players have their teams of, you know, Their coach, their physiotherapists, their acupuncturist, their dietician they're right there.

[00:45:36] You know, their fitness coach. They've got all these people that are specialized to help them be the best tennis players they can be. Right. What I'm suggesting is that we all need that in our lives. We need our own sort of personal teams that will help us be. You know, w person that we can be the best, you know, whatever it is, you know, fill in the blank that we want to be.

[00:45:58] So part of it is, is, is [00:46:00] really formulating that team and, and, and using that team. And then the other piece is at the very end of the book, I include a 30 day peak performance challenge which walks the reader through how to implement the concepts in the book over a 30 day period on anything that they want.

[00:46:17] They want to get better at anything they want to make sort of breakthrough performance in and what that does. And the reason I included that is because it's both showing people how tangibly and practically to implement these concepts and day-to-day life. And it also helps to make it. Doing this over 30 days is gonna, is gonna start to build these practices as habits.

[00:46:42] And, you know, it is checking in on purpose, going back to purpose. It is checking in on your values and make sure you're doing those behaviors. It is checking in with your vision. And, and it is also making sure. The goals that you have said are are the right goals and that you are monitoring and measuring them.

[00:46:59] And so I [00:47:00] include a process that's taken, actually taken from Google and w what Google uses to manage its its own performance. Called objectives and key results. And I've adapted that to personal use so that you are basically setting goals for yourself. And then you're breaking those goals down into, into monthly objectives and key and key results that are kind of the measurable indicators that tell you the, what progress you're making towards achieving those objectives.

[00:47:32] And you score yourself. On them and, and it's as great tool for staying. Seeing where you're where you're not on track, where you're maybe behind and where you need to pick up the pace on things. So that's a, that's a very concrete tool that I offer and I use myself that I've been doing for years that really has helped me stay consistent.

[00:47:53] Because every week I'm looking at my goals, my objectives for the month that are based on my goals for the year that are based on. [00:48:00] Long-term vision for myself. And I score them and I say, yeah, you're doing, you know, you're on track this week or, Hey, you're, you're behind schedule and you have to pick up the pace.

[00:48:09] And I used that process to, you know, to kind of, you know, stay, stay on, you know, on track, you know, month by month till I hit six months. And I revisit my annual. To make sure that it's still relevant and see if anything has changed or if I want to make any modifications. And then I keep going and hopefully by the end of the year, I'm a step closer to achieving my vision.

[00:48:33] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. I love that. That's again, to me, consistency is so important because you can have the absolute best intentions, but, but if you're not consistent with it, then. Then you're going to have a lot of extra challenges, I think. Yeah.

[00:48:49] Bob Lesser: I, and I, and I actually just won one saying that I really love is that elite performers are not consistently great.

[00:48:57] They're great at being consistent. And [00:49:00] so. Consistency showing up day in, day out is, is the name of the game. And so I'm glad you brought that up because that, that is, you know, it's not about these heroic performances or, you know you know, going, you know, all 110% all the time. It's about showing. You know, doing our best day in day out and being consistent and by being consistent is going to be how we become better and ultimately great at something

[00:49:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: 10,000 hours.

[00:49:32] Yes, absolutely. And that's, that's the epitome of consistency. You have to do it for 10,000 hours on Malcolm Gladwell. We love him and we hate him at the same time. Bob, I'm so grateful that you. Took the time to chat with me about your work and the book. I'm super, super excited about it. I would love it if you wouldn't mind.

[00:49:53] Cause I'm sure, you know, someone's listening to this going, I need this book. I need to know more about [00:50:00] Bob Lester and the work he's doing. How does someone connect with you? What, where are the places that someone could find you and also where can the book be found?

[00:50:09] Bob Lesser: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm on social media.

[00:50:12] You can find me on Instagram at, at Bob underscore lesser. I'm also on Twitter at lesser underscore bomb. So you can find me both of those places. And you can also go to my website to learn a little bit more about me and my work and. Read some, some articles that I, you know, kinda my new, my new stuff.

[00:50:31] And that's www.boblesser.com. The book can be ordered it's out and can be ordered on Amazon Barnes and noble bookshop and indie bound. So, you know, any anywhere, you know, where you prefer to, to, to buy books, those are all the online sources. And the name of the book is the peak performance formula achieving breakthrough results in life.

[00:50:53] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Fabulous. And I'll put the links to everything in the show notes so that we don't have to be typing furiously down [00:51:00] everything. So writing it all, noting it all down. Whenever somebody says to me, you know, oh, can you spell that for my name? For example, I'm always like, oh, you don't want to do that. Let me just send it to you either that, or I say write small because my name is very long.

[00:51:14] Once again, Bob, I'm so grateful that you took the time to be here. I have just one last question that I. Everybody who comes on the show. And it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some profound results. And the question is this. If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?

[00:51:41] NEF said. All right. Well, that's, that's about the most succinct I've had there. That's yeah. Three, three words. That's good. Cause you can't, you can't. Too many words. So there you go, Bob. Thank you once again for being here. I really appreciate it.

[00:51:59] Bob Lesser: Although my pleasure. [00:52:00] Thanks for having me.

[00:52:01] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. So you have gotten it from Bob lesser.

[00:52:04] You're going to need to go out and get the peak performance formula. Be consistent in your practices. Figure out your vision, your purpose, your values, and live your best life and do your best work. It's really the way it's all about. I am. Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. And I'm hoping that you enjoyed the show.

[00:52:24] I'm hoping that you are enjoying your day, and I'm hoping that if you do like what you're hearing. Drop a review, tell a friend about this episode so that more people can learn about Bob and the incredible work he's doing to help people be peak performers until next time, remember to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[00:52:49] thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. [00:53:00] And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[00:53:06] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2020. As always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.

 

A Birthday Routine to Make Your Year Amazing

Mindful Friday

On my birthday, I follow the same routine as other days. I wake up and meditate. Then, I do yoga, and I journal. However, the journaling I do on my birthday is a bit different. Instead of my usual ramblings, I do a check-in. I try to answer the following questions.

1. What went right this year?
2. What could I have done better?
3. What lessons have I learned?
4. Which of the goals I set for myself for this past year have I accomplished?
5. Which are still works in progress?
6. What am I grateful for?
7. What do I hope to learn this year?
8. What are my goals for this coming trip around the sun?
9. What is the biggest adventure I can have?
10. After I'm done journaling, I light a candle, make my wishes, and set my intentions for the coming year, and I blow it out to send the wishes out into the world.

Do you have any birthday routines or rituals? What are they? I'd love to know.

Peter Shankman, Futurist, Author, Corporate Keynote Speaker

Peter Shankman Discusses How He Innovates With ADHD As His Superpower 

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset
If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

It's also brought to you by Gloria Chou's PR Starter Pack. If you want to get featured in the media, this is your best first step.

What a great episode! Peter innovates and moves faster than normal. We dig into how he does it and we can do it too.

The New York Times has called Peter Shankman "a rockstar who knows everything about social media and then some." He is a 5x best-selling author, entrepreneur, and corporate keynote speaker, focusing on customer service and the new and emerging customer and neuroatypical economy. With three startup launches and exits under his belt, (most notably Help a Reporter Out) Peter is recognized worldwide for radically new ways of thinking about the customer experience, social media, PR, marketing, advertising, and ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) and the new Neurodiverse and Remote economies.

In addition to his passion for helping people and companies find success, some of Peter's highlights also include:

• Founder of HARO - Help A Reporter Out, which became the standard for thousands of journalists looking for sources prior to being acquired three years after launch
• Futurist-in-Residence at Epic Marketing Consultants, focusing on the customer experience of tomorrow
• Faster than Normal - The Internet's #1 podcast on ADHD, focusing on the superpowers and gifts of having a "faster than normal brain,” which has helped thousands of people all around the world realize that having a neurodiverse brain is actually a gift, not a curse.
• The ShankMinds Breakthrough Network, an elite, online mastermind of thought leaders, business experts, and change-makers

Peter is a worldwide influencer and/or spokesperson for several global brands including Sylvania, National Car Rental, Manscaped.com, Sealface, Thule, and many others.

Finally, Peter is a father, a 2x Ironman triathlete, a class B licensed skydiver, and has a pretty serious Peloton addiction. When he’s not traveling around the world speaking to companies big and small, he's based in NYC with his seven-year-old daughter and 20-year-old cat, both of whom consistently refuse him access to the couch. 

Connect with Peter

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petershankman/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PeterShankman

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/petershankman/

Website: https://www.shankman.com/

Episode Transcript

Peter Shankman

[00:00:00] Peter Shankman: You know, at the end of the day, if you don't like where you are, you can move. Cause you're not a tree, but sometimes that takes time and that's fine. But the only thing I have a problem with is, is if you're spending the few hours of free time, you're not making arrangements to change down the road, but rather bitching about your situation.

[00:00:18] Then I kinda have a problem with it because you have the opportunity to at least start the process.

[00:00:27] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. Izolda Trakhtenberg. On the show, I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM, brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:48] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you [00:01:00] decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let's get to the show.

[00:01:12] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm your host and I'm super happy. You're here. I'm also really happy and honored to have this week's guest. The New York Times has called Peter Shankman a rockstar who knows everything about social media and then some he's a five-time bestselling author, entrepreneur, and corporate keynote speaker.

[00:01:34] Focusing on customer service and the new and emerging customer and neuro-atypical economy with three startup launches and exits under his belt. Most notably help report her out. Peter is recognized worldwide for radically new ways of thinking about the customer experience, social media, PR marketing, advertising, and ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

[00:01:57] And the new neurodiverse and [00:02:00] remote economies, in addition to his passion for helping people and companies find success, some of Peter's highlights also include founder of HARO helper reporter out, which became the standard for thousands of journalists, looking for sources prior to being acquired three years after launch futurist in residence.

[00:02:17] Epic marketing consultants, focusing on the customer experience of tomorrow, faster than normal. The Internet's number one podcast on ADHD, focusing on the superpowers and gifts of having a faster than normal brain, which has helped thousands of people all around the world realize that having a neurodiverse brain is actually a gift, not a curse.

[00:02:39] The Shank Minds, breakthrough network, an elite online mastermind of thought leaders, business experts, and change-makers. Peter's a worldwide influencer and a spokesperson for several global brands, including Sylvania national car rental, and many others. [00:03:00] Finally, Peter is a father, a two-time iron man triathlete, a class B licensed skydiver, and has a pretty serious Peloton addiction. When he's not traveling around

[00:03:10] speaking to companies big and small, he's based in New York City with a seven-year-old daughter and 20-year-old cat and dog. All of whom consistently refused him access to the couch theater. I'm super thrilled that you're here. Welcome.

Peter Shankman: Hey, great to be here. Thanks.

Izolda Trakhtenberg: I am. I'm a big, huge fan. I have read faster than normal before, and I just got a copy for my husband because the audiobook is out and cause he's not a big reader.

[00:03:37] He has ADHD and he's plowing through it and loving it. And he now of course from the movie up, keeps going squirrel. So, at all sorts of times, I want to jump right on it. If that's okay with you. You, it's been said, have an incredible imagination and incredible intuition. And [00:04:00] I'm wondering, how does, how do those, those parts of you relate to ADHD if they do and how do you use them to make it your superpower?

[00:04:11] Peter Shankman: Oh yeah. That's interesting. I think that, you know, people would say anything. I think that, that for me, a lot of it. When you have a faster brain, you have a couple of options. You can try to slow down to match everyone else. Or you can accept that that's really, really hard to do, and you can sort of learn to, to speak slower than you think.

[00:04:32] So what do I mean by that? I will sit there and come up with 15 ideas in five minutes because it's fun. 13 that might be beneficial to, there might be terrible, whatever, but I will spend time to sort of understand. What's going on and then present the top couple of ideas of the world. The difference is, is that I've accepted that no matter how calmly I do that, that'd be really think that he is crazy.

[00:04:55] And so the goal is to learn, not to care about [00:05:00] what people think and never let that prevent you from doing something fun or doing something that you want to do or creating something, something, something new.

[00:05:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Okay. So within that people might think it's crazy, but you come up with the idea and I'm wondering, are you in that moment trying to solve a problem that you've seen or is it just the ideas of rapid-fire and how do you reconcile the two?

[00:05:21] If for example, you come up with an idea that someone else might think is crazy, but it's

[00:05:26] Peter Shankman: not okay. You know, it it's, it's sort of stealing yourself in the fact that when you present the idea, there's going to be at least one person that knows what the hell is wrong, you know, but, but then understanding that, that, that, that the situations and the ideas that you presented in the past that actually benefit, you know, I have a little bit of a positive track record in that.

[00:05:45] And I've had several ideas of the past that have actually turned into, you know, great companies or, you know, a million multimillion dollar exits, things like that. So that gives you a little bit of credibility. The key though, is to keep moving forward. The thing about ADHD is that is the [00:06:00] forward motion.

[00:06:00] Whether you're in, whether you are, you see you and your entrepreneur forward, motion is thrilling. And if you're not going forward, even if you're just standing still, it kind of feels like you're going backwards. And that's a problem. So for me, it's always about forward motion. If I have an idea and it doesn't work, I try and do it right.

[00:06:14] That is where I try another one. And they're going to be ideas of work. It happens all the time. So the key is to keep moving forward.

[00:06:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Okay. And yet there are times when ADHD is something that allows you to think laterally, to look at things from a different angle. How does that align with the forward motion that you're talking

[00:06:32] Peter Shankman: about?

[00:06:33] There's several ways. I mean, I mean, the, the, the premise of you know, just this morning, I was on a call with a client and, and, and the client was coming back and forth on an idea that they just, they didn't see it working and see it working. And rather than try to sort of convince them that what I said, what if we take it?

[00:06:45] What if we go 45 degrees to the left and look at it? And all of a sudden, oh, okay, well maybe that, you know, it's all this stuff that I got in trouble for in school. Right? Speaking, out of turn you know, cracking jokes. [00:07:00] Disrupting the class. Cause I talking about something that completely come up with something completely different type thing.

[00:07:04] All of that has sort of given, allowed me to, to, to use that to my benefit as a, as a, you know, as an adult. The key is to be in an industry to be in a place, to be in a world where, where creativity is, lauded is not pushed down and, and, and, and, and thrown away. You know, I know that some ideas I'm gonna, I'm gonna put the effort.

[00:07:22] We're not going to do that and that's not going to happen. And sort of once you realize there's gonna be people like that, and you just move on, you find your people, you find the people who, who, who appreciate what you can bring to the table. I heard a great quote once cause there've been times that I've had to let people leave my table because we just didn't, you know, they couldn't understand my speed.

[00:07:43] I couldn't understand their non speed. And I heard a great quote. Just because we're no longer friends doesn't mean I wish you ill. I don't want you to starve. I just don't want you to eat at my table. Right. And if [00:08:00] you are creative and your, and your brain does work differently, occasionally you have to realize that not everyone's gonna think like you, and if you spend your entire life focused on the fact that that things you do are not.

[00:08:12] Always going to be understood or are not always going to be accepted or, you know, you're not, you're going to be asked. Why aren't you normal things of the day. If you spend your entire life being upset about the fact that's happening, you're never gonna be able to grow. I think Winston Churchill said, you'll, you'll never reach your destination if you stop to yell at every dog barks.

[00:08:29] Right. So sometimes you just have to make it on your own and, and, and, and move forward and understand that. Yeah, here we go. And it's, it's, I've found. That's a great success in that. It took a long time and a lot of a lot of therapy. But in the end I realized that, you know, the idea that I've had, some of them have been very beneficial, so it'd be great.

[00:08:48] Some of them failed, but I will never stop continuing to do that.

[00:08:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, nor should you, I mean, there, there are certain ideas, certainly heroin is one of the ones that I love help a reporter [00:09:00] out. I've used it myself and continue to use it. And th th that, that begs the question that you've had these successful companies, some of them have been multi-million dollar ends, it's you?

[00:09:10] And then you're moving forward when you're doing that. There are times, and I've, I've, I've been lurking on your blog. You talk about feeling like an imposter. Okay. So what was that? God? Yes. Okay. So, so how, how does that work? Is that, is that the ADHD brain, is that your personality? And if so, w which, which would, whichever one it is, how are you making those work for you?

[00:09:34] Peter Shankman: It's a little bit of everything. I think there's a part of it that. No matter how I could give a speech to 30,000 people and get a 30,000 person standing ovation. If one person doesn't stand up, that's the person I'm gonna focus on. Oh my God, everyone hated it. It was terrible. Let alone the fact that, that my eyes are literally telling me the 29,999 people like.

[00:09:54] Right. There's always been a little bit. And again, that's something you have to work on constantly because a lot of times, you know, [00:10:00] growing up with ADHD, growing up with, sit down, you're disrupting the class disease and growing up with you're wrong and you're weird. And why are you so stupid? And why are you so strange?

[00:10:06] You know, no matter how much success you have that tends to stick in your brain. And that tends to pop up the most inconvenient times. It's taken years to get over that, but every little bit of success, I have everything that I do that tends to benefit, you know, from that I tend to to learn a little bit more and chip away a little bit more at what I call junior high school, Peter the guy who, who, who took all that shit seriously.

[00:10:28] You know, the, the PERT example, we're talking about the triathlon. I ran this Sunday, my friend my coach and my friend was at the finish line. He grabbed this photo of me coming across and my. Oh, my God, I am disgusting. I'm sweaty. I'm gross. I still have 25 pounds to lose. I don't look like a triathlon or triathlete.

[00:10:45] It looks some fat guy who just got, and then I had this moment where I saw the finish line sign behind me and realized, no, maybe just a guy who just did this race and that's a shit ton more than most people did today. And once you own that, right. And it was this wonderful feeling of release and feeling of, of, of, of freedom that, [00:11:00] yeah, I did just do this and I can, I can appreciate myself for what I do.

[00:11:06] And it it's, it's hard to get there because you know, you sit there a lot of times with your, with your, with your, your, your ADHD and, you know, your concept that, that today's the day when I wake up today is absolutely the day of the New York times gonna have written a huge article about about what a fraud I am and everything I've done is just been locked.

[00:11:21] And then when they don't, it's obviously, because I'm not important enough to be written up by the New York times, you know? So there's this constant battle with yourself, but. You know, you do what you can do and, and, and you, every day, you chip a little bit more away at it. Yeah.

[00:11:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: It's so fascinating that you say that because again, my husband has add, and he, and I talk about this a lot about the notion that no matter, no matter what he does, he doesn't think it's good enough, no matter how he's an artist in a clown.

[00:11:50] And he always comes back with stories of not thinking that no matter how well he did. It just wasn't good enough. And on some level it might lead him to strive, but there are times [00:12:00] when he just gets down on himself and it's very hard for him to motivate himself and it's impossible for me to motivate him.

[00:12:06] So do you get to those places where you actually just stop and go, you know what, I just can't today or are you always going, no, this is it right? Yeah. There

[00:12:14] Peter Shankman: all the time. And you know, I have ways to make sure that I am like don't let them. Perfect. You know, let it affect me as, as little as possible, but that way I I, I, exercise is massive, right?

[00:12:26] I have to exercise. I have to work out. I have to get that brain chemistry growing in my brain every single day. I was up at 4:00 AM this morning. I was on the bike for an hour. It just, it gives me the, the chemistry I need to, to quiet those demons. Right. For lack of a better word. It's certainly not easy to do, but you know, if I don't exercise my day, And so the key is to find a way to build that into everything I needed.

[00:12:58] My dad you know, it's not, [00:13:00] it sounds easy, but you know, when, when you've had it, when you worked late or you had a late dinner or whatever, you know, you get to bed at midnight and it's 4:00 AM and you have to wake up and work out. It's it's difficult, but I know what will happen if I don't. And I certainly don't want that.

[00:13:17] So, you know, I it's, I've heard it's called playing the tape forward. Alcoholics talk about it a lot. The premise of that you know, okay, I'm going to have this one drink, well, if have this one drink where I'm going to be in 12 hours and it never ends well when you think of it that way. So the key is to not think about it that way, the key is to not have that first drink.

[00:13:35] For me, it's sort of the same thing. If I don't. It'll be 6:00 PM or 4:00 PM and 12 hours we'll have passed either way, but what kind of a damn right, will it be a better day or a worse day? And so that easily enough to get me up. And again, this is enough to get me, but not all the time. I'm not perfect.

[00:13:51] You know, I will sleep in every once in a while ago. And honestly, Ben and I will, I will, I will scale workout. The key is not to not to get into such a rut where you [00:14:00] are, where you are without one MIS becomes a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 weeks cycle. That's you, you know, you don't want to so was one of the reasons I rarely drink anymore is because I would, I would, I would, you know, I wasn't going to have to get drunk, but I, oh, I'm going to client event free.

[00:14:14] Great. I'll have four drinks. I'll have five drinks. I wasn't getting drunk, but I. You know, I come home a little, hung up, not hung over, but you know, I'd be a little dehydrated. I wouldn't wake up the next morning and workout. Well, I'm not okay. I might as well. You know, I blew it. I blew the workout this morning.

[00:14:27] I might as well get a bacon, egg, and cheese at Suffolk degrees or two of them. Well, I do want my breakfast sized back and let's just get dinner. I'll have a pizza. I'll start tomorrow. All of a sudden it's two weeks later, right. Have gained eight pounds and I'm sitting there what the hell just happened.

[00:14:38] So, you know, was a great line from the movie war games where the computer realizes that line wards is the only winning. And for me very often, the only one who move is not to play, I have I heard another great quote, read something like the demons in my subconscious are too hard to be there for us simply [00:15:00] must not.

[00:15:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, both of those quotes are fantastic. Yeah. I love it. I loved it. First time I saw war games and heard Whopper say that, you know, interesting game, the only way you move is not to play. What's interesting. What was that? Yes, I, yes, exactly. Favorite and. Here's the thing. There are times when we're in situations where, you know, there are people with ADHD who are in jobs that they hate, or, or, you know, are doing the nine to five when, when they're not suited for it.

[00:15:27] They're neuro-typical how, what is your, what is your guidance for someone who is, who perhaps hasn't gotten to the point where they want to be an entrepreneur or whether they want to start their own business or where they can be on their own? What do you tell someone who's in that nine to five, who might hate it is not well suited for it because of some of the neuro-typical situations in their lives.

[00:15:47] What are your thoughts on that?

[00:15:48] Peter Shankman: I think the first thing to understand is that I'm there. I would never judge anyone on what's a job they're doing or how they're living their life. Is, are they happy if they're not going to have the, to change that? You know, there are people, I, you have these, you have these [00:16:00] sort of entrepreneur gurus.

[00:16:03] I can't stand it. You know, if you're not happy, you hate your job. You should quit go out on your own, you know? And if you have to work 22 hours a day, so you just told someone to, you know, give them some of the recipe to kill themselves. That's not recommended. Right. Right. So I'm not going to say, oh, you're a miserable job.

[00:16:16] Quit. We don't have that opportunity. Right. And, and it's, it's really privileged to mustard. Everyone can do that. So I don't think that way, but I do have everything is that if you understand that you are not happy where you are, you have to start making the correct arrangements so that at some point down the road, You can quit so that you can change your life so that you do, you know, at the end of the day, if you don't like where you are, you can move.

[00:16:44] Cause you're not a tree, but sometimes that takes time and that's fine. But the only thing I have a problem with is, is if you're spending a few hours of free time every day, not making arrangements to change down the road, but rather bitching [00:17:00] about your situation, then I kind of. Because you have the opportunity to at least start the process, right?

[00:17:08] So if you're miserable and where you are look to things and don't just look for a new job, because it's better than your old job, look for something that will truly make you happy and then work backwards and figure out how to get there. Again, it's not easy. I don't expect you to do it tomorrow, but it is doable.

[00:17:21] I didn't become an entrepreneur until I realized I could. I didn't think that's what you did. Both of my parents were teachers. I didn't know anyone was entrepreneur. I figured you worked for someone else. You've worked 40 years. Got a gold watch and retire. I got laid off from America online and my first job out of college and sit in the parking lot, went what the hell just happened?

[00:17:38] And I realized I'm going to try it. I'm going to go out on my own. I know how to do PR. I learned from me, well, I'm gonna try it without what's. The worst can happen when it, I literally said when it fails, I'll get a job. Not if it fails when it fails, I'll get a job. It's been 98 to almost oh eight, 18 and almost 24 years later.

[00:17:53] And I haven't had good job. So I've been incredibly lucky. That being said there been incredible highs, incredible lows. [00:18:00] But yeah, if you're miserable where you are, figure out what you can do and how you can improve your current situation to get to where you want to be.

[00:18:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That makes a lot of sense. I I'm going to, I'm doing rapid fire because I know we don't have that much time.

[00:18:17] I would love to know from you, you talk about in faster than normal, your fabulous book. You talk about how your body, and I don't know if it's actually all ADHD people, but you say that your body does not produce enough dopamine, serotonin and adrenaline. And I'm wondering how those. Okay. So how does that, how does that relate?

[00:18:36] What, what is, what is, what does that do for you and how do you address that issue?

[00:18:41] Peter Shankman: So a combination of domains, serotonin adrenaline allows you to focus. It allows you to sit down and do the things that you don't necessarily love to do. So I'll give you an example. In school. I was the class clown, and I would get in trouble for me in the class.

[00:18:54] Clown. Why was the class well in the subjects that I loved English. [00:19:00] In social studies. I was never the class clown. I paid attention like the greatest dude in the world, in math, in science and things I wasn't good at. I was the class clown. What I realized 30 years later is why I was making jokes and cracking up and cracking jokes and cracking wise because when I made a joke and other students laughed, they laughed at something I did, which actually gave me a dopamine hit.

[00:19:23] And all of a sudden I could focus. Of course I was getting in trouble. But I was actually, if you look at it, the big picture I was getting in trouble because I wanted to learn now I've since learned better ways to get my domain, get my adrenaline and get missing and turn it into meetings with bad jokes.

[00:19:41] But the logic is sound right. It is the same thing. You know, we all know every single one of us, there's not a person in the world who understand, who doesn't understand that texting while driving is dangerous and will kill you. Here's how so many people still do it. Why? Because every time we hear a text, [00:20:00] every time we see a message, every time we get a tweet or reply, whatever our brain actually releases domain it's addiction.

[00:20:09] So no different, if don't mean, it gives us that focus chemical and that ability to be happy then. Yeah. Obviously you're going to want it and you're going to look for it. So the key for kids today in school, we now understand how to find a better way to get it. I've spoken to schools where they've installed something called bouncy bands.

[00:20:27] They're these little bands that sit on the, on the legs of the chair and the kids can bounce their legs without making any noise. And just that gives them some adrenaline kids are allowed to get up, go to the back of the room, right, hang out and and just, you know, work, standing up whatever little things more recess, less carbs at, at, at lunch things.

[00:20:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: You know, what's interesting about what you just said. It bringing up education in my mind, the whole, the whole education system. If I were queen, I would redo it because sitting kids who have such incredible amounts of energy down for so many hours a day, I think is a mistake. [00:21:00] I worked at NASA as an educator for many years and I watched it happen.

[00:21:02] I watched kids be bored and they weren't, it wasn't necessarily that they were ADHD. Necessarily, I don't know what their diagnoses, and I know you don't like that word what their, what their state was, but at the same time, I think so many children have trouble with that. And so if, if we, if you were king and I were queen, what would we do?

[00:21:21] How would we address kids today? And the education system to help them learn better in ways that work for them, whether they're neuro-typical.

[00:21:31] Peter Shankman: Well, you have to, I mean, it's tough because you know, one teacher, 30 kids, you can't make three different ways of learning, but what you can do is you can level the playing field in your, in your favor, right?

[00:21:40] So you can create you can create Situations where kids don't come in as entirely high energy. Right? So the premise of the kid wakes up instead of the kid waking up eating two bowls of chocolate, frosted sugar bombs, and sitting in front of television for 45 minutes at school, wake up, have a couple of hard boiled eggs, have some protein.[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] Walk to school run around for 45 minutes, go to the school. You've got, you know, have a zero period class that's recess, let the kids work out exercise first, then bring them into school. They did a study in Texas with a school district in Texas, where they did exactly that they, they gave them 90 minutes of recess a day as opposed to 20.

[00:22:16] And they upped they, they changed the carb. They dropped carbs in breakfast and lunch by 70% and upped protein by 50% like that. And they saw a 29% decrease. ADHD outbursts in boys and 20, not a 24% increase in girls getting involved in the class discussion. Those are huge numbers. They really are.

[00:22:36] Right. So it's those little tiny things that you can do that really do make a huge change.

[00:22:41] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Fascinating. I did not know about that study. I'm going to have to go look it up and I'm gonna swing it right back to you and ask you about something you said in, in your book. Again, you said that skydiving, which you are a master skydiver, which I think is great.

[00:22:54] It gives you a productivity high. I would love to hear from you. What about a dive? I've been skydiving [00:23:00] once I loved it and I want to do it again, but what about it is your rush? What, what is the productivity high? That's kind of. Well

[00:23:07] Peter Shankman: don't mean you're basically jumping on a plane, you're doing something.

[00:23:10] Every single molecule or brain says dumb ass. You don't need to do this. The plane can land. And you're literally fighting against that. The second you enter the atmosphere. Second, you jump out of the plane. You're in, you're in air. You're in freefall, your body. You have two choices. I can open my parachute live, or I cannot have my parachute and die.

[00:23:23] That's it. There are no other options. It is the most free you'll ever get. And when that parachute opens and you've quote unquote to fight death, I hate that term. But when you, when, when the parachute opens and you've slowed down and the world comes back into focus and you know, your hearing comes back and it's no longer just the wind and, you know, you.

[00:23:41] You have this feeling of euphoria and that is all the domain serotonin and adrenaline firing at once. And so I, and that just doesn't go away. That needs to dissipate over time. So I will drop my parish. I will, I will land, I'll put a parachute full, you know gathered up, throw it in the corner of the, of the, of the, of the hanger, pull out my laptop lean on the parachute and then, you know, write 10, 20,000 words in [00:24:00] an hour, right?

[00:24:00] Because I'm so high with, I double triple, quadruple the amount of those chemicals in my brain, that focus is. The easiest thing in the world and I'll do it and I'll get it done. And it's interesting because I was dating a woman once years ago, 20 years ago, it was a PhD candidate or double PhD, something way too smart for me, we should not have been dating.

[00:24:21] And one of the things she was doing was like, she got paid the government, she got government grants to FICO, came to rats to learn about addiction and pathways and things like that. And, and I'm like, so you get free cocaine. She's like, yeah, let's just table that discussion right now. But the point was.

[00:24:34] She took my blood once and she said, I want to, I want to take your blood and see how you are after a jump. And she goes, yeah, yeah. It just comes back a week later. She's like, yeah, you're basically half a molecule off from being a full, a full on cocaine addict. I'm like, I don't do cocaine. She's like, no, it's the same exact chemistry.

[00:24:47] I'm like, huh? I'm like, so instead of if I need to focus, I just to go to cocaine, she goes, Peter, you're really not listening. But the premise was that I was getting that same high, but the difference was I was getting it naturally. When you do [00:25:00] cocaine, as I actually taught me The brain fires all those those receptors at once.

[00:25:05] Because it doesn't understand what's going on. When you're skydiving, even though you need all those receptors to just keep you alive, the brain is still smart enough to keep some in reserve. It's why after I finished skydiving and finished writing 20,000 words, I could still drive home. I don't know crap.

[00:25:22] I don't need to immediately do it again. Right. My body is able to process that keeps on the don't mean for later we turned some of the serotonin things like that, as opposed to illegal drugs, which are, you know, drugs period, which, which don't do that. They just, oh, send it all. Okay. Now you're empty. Right?

[00:25:35] It's the equivalent of, of, of being in a helicopter and having 10, 10 minutes of reserve fuel in case in times of war. So, you know, your body is very smart that way, and if you can figure out how to adapt it for me, it's skydiving or running or exercising or public speaking, you know, my. Knows me so well that when I do a corporate keynote, she will attempt to get me back in my seat, on the airplane home within two hours of my coming off the stage, [00:26:00] because that's around the time that I, that I started to come down from the high.

[00:26:03] Right. And if she times it well, and there are no delays, I will sit down that plane and I will fall asleep until we get home. And it's the greatest feeling in the world. It's the deepest sleep I'll ever get.

[00:26:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I it's great to have someone that knows you so well. And that actually brings me to my next question.

[00:26:17] Are you one of those people who you're able to start the project and then see it through, or do you get into what my husband and I call shiny, pretty producing things syndrome and go, oh, the next thing squirrel. And then you move on and if so, what kind of support do you have or need to stay on track?

[00:26:33] Yeah,

[00:26:33] Peter Shankman: it's a dos attention deficit. Ooh, shiny. I have, what I have is a very, very, very powerful calendar. There is not 20 minutes out of my day that is not scheduled. It was brutal during the beginning of COVID. All my keynotes, which went virtual. I had a keynote in Stockholm. Okay. Well, I know I'm taking most of my day to fly there.

[00:26:51] I'm going to sleep. I'm waking up the next morning. I'm speaking, I'm spending the day there next morning. I'm flying back home. That's three full days, right? That's 14 hours on a plane and round trip. That is [00:27:00] a. You know, a lot of scheduled time where I can right now that same keynote that would the 45 minute keynote that we want to take three days.

[00:27:06] Now it takes about 45 minutes. So I'll do it at 4:00 PM or 7:00 AM or whatever on a, on a Tuesday at my apartment. And I've done it 7 45. I've just done all my work for the week. And I'm like, okay, well, got a lot of free time. Huh? I can start another company or maybe try meth, you know, it's like, yeah. So one of the things I realized, right, beginning of COVID is I have to schedule shit.

[00:27:30] Doesn't matter if I have nothing to do, I'm going to schedule something to do. So I spent a lot of time. I bought kettlebells, I've gained 16 pounds of muscle in the past two 14 months, because what the hell else I'm gonna do? Right. But I made sure that my schedule was full and. You know, it's again, it's putting these rules in the plate.

[00:27:46] I don't allow myself to ever say, oh, watch it on Netflix. No, the only time I allow myself to watch Netflix or Hulu is when I'm on the bike. Because if I allow myself to do it once I will watch Netflix and Hulu every day and that's it, I will never get anything done. So I only allow myself to do it when I'm working out, because I know I can't do that [00:28:00] forever.

[00:28:00] So it has to be about putting these rules into place. Same reason I don't same reason they don't you know, that I have, I have two sides in my closet and they're labeled, right. I wake up in the morning. Okay. Am I on the road today? Am I speaking somewhere? Am I on TV? No. Okay. T-shirt and jeans. Oh, am I traveling?

[00:28:16] Am I, am I, or am I, am I speaking somebody? Okay, great button down. Shirt, jacket, jeans. That's it. My sweaters, my best, my scarves, all that stuff. It's in my daughter's closet. So I have to see it because God's been ahead of look at the stuff. Oh my God. What should I wear? I know, I remember that sweater.

[00:28:27] I'm like Largan. That's what I wonder how she's doing. I should look her up, you know, it's it's three hours later. I'm naked the living room on Facebook. I haven't left the house.

[00:28:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, it's like your it's like I'm living with you instead of that's when that's exactly. It's exactly how he does things. And, and it's interesting because that notion of decision-making.

[00:28:47] What you, it sounds like you have developed specific processes to, to address the fact that you have sometimes issues, either making decisions or getting onto the next thing. Do [00:29:00] you detail them somewhere? Are there places where if someone goes, okay, I want to know how Peter Shankman does it, where can someone go if they are interested in finding out more about your process and how you've managed to make ADHD

[00:29:12] Peter Shankman: or superpower?

[00:29:13] So I occasionally. Now for halibut coaching. I have a site for that called shank minds.com/adhd coaching. Love coaching. I'm not, I don't call myself a coach, but I occasionally help people. I talk about this stuff all the time on at shankman.com. I talk about it on any of my social channels all the time, which is at Peter Shankman and all the channels.

[00:29:32] I encourage people to email me. You are welcome to, to reach out if you want to go for a run or, you know, the only thing I will not do is sit down with you for a meeting, but you want to go for a walk and talk. You wanna do an Aaron Sorkin style Westwind meeting. We walk 25 blocks and you know, never stopped.

[00:29:44] I'm happy to do that. I I'm always, you know, what I used to do when I'd go to the airport is if you really want me bad enough, you will take a ride to the airport with me. Right. We'll take New Jersey transit from the city to, to the airport. And you'll have me for about 40 minutes. Talk about what you want.

[00:29:57] Right. And, and you'd be amazed how many people would do that. So yeah, for me, [00:30:00] it was really about about Knowing what works for me, understanding that it might not work for everyone else, but happy being happy to share what I do.

[00:30:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. And I'm so grateful that you said that because I'm at some point going to take you up on that.

[00:30:15] I won't, I won't run, but I'll walk. So I have just a couple more questions if that's okay. I wanted to ask you about new ideas. They come to you fast and furious. Where from what does your brain do differently in that way? And how do you file them? Or do you just remember the.

[00:30:32] Peter Shankman: I write them down. I write everything down.

[00:30:33] When I run, when I exercise, I use my apple watch. They make, they make notes. They make memos. This morning on, on, on the Peloton at 4:00 AM, I came up with two video ideas. I put them both on this to remind me in three hours to try this or that, you know, as long as it's written down somewhere, I can then translate it three hours later.

[00:30:47] When it reminds me I could transfer it to a Google spreadsheet or whatever. And I'm able to, to keep this on when I need to do okay. I gotta write, gotta create something this weekend went, oh, look, all this stuff I have. Right. So, so. Everything because you know, some of the greatest lies in [00:31:00] the world you know oh, I'm only five minutes away is right.

[00:31:03] You know, those great, great lies the checks in the mail. And I'll remember it when I wake up.

[00:31:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, absolutely. I never do. And I keep, I do keep a journal right by my bedside so that I can write first thing in the morning. That is so important to me as someone I don't have ADHD or add, but I do forget, and I get lots of ideas.

[00:31:20] So I think I'm so glad that you said that about writing everything down. I think it's such a fantastic way of, of making sure that the things that you think are important, actually get down and kept. And kept as important. I I'm so grateful. I know this has been fast and furious. I am so grateful that you took the time to join me on the show.

[00:31:39] And I'm going to put everything in the show notes as far as where people can find you. And I have just one last question that I ask everybody who comes on the show. And it's a strange little question, but I find it comes with some profound answers. And the question is this, and you as a skydiver will have a particular opinion on this, I think.

[00:31:55] And that is this. If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see. [00:32:00] What would you say,

[00:32:08] Peter Shankman: love yourself?

[00:32:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's beautiful. Thank you, Peter. I really appreciate it. I appreciate you being on the show. Thank you so much. My pleasure. This is all the Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. I'm super grateful that you joined us. This has been a fabulous, I'll be a quick conversation with Peter Shankman.

[00:32:26] Maybe we'll be able to get him back on the show again, to talk even further about the ADHD brain and how you can use it to innovate and create and be creative until next time I remind you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[00:32:43] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on [00:33:00] patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[00:33:01] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.

 

 

 

* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I’ll get a small commission. I'm also a PR Starter Pack Affiliate. I use Gloria's methods to get featured in the media often. And please remember, I’ll never recommend a product or service I don’t absolutely love!

Norm Snyder, CEO of Reeds, Inc. on Innovating in the Ultra-Competitive Soda Industry

Norm Snyder Discusses Innovating in the Ultra-Competitive Soda Industry

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset
If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

Norm Snyder joined Reed’s Inc. in September 2019 as the Chief Operating Officer. He was appointed Chief Executive Officer in March 2020. Prior to joining Reed’s, Norm served as President and Chief Executive Office for Avitae USA, LLC, an emerging premium new age beverage company that markets and sells a line of ready-to-drink caffeinated waters. Prior to Avitae, he served as the President and Chief Operating Officer for Adina For Life, Inc., President and Chief Executive Officer of High Falls Brewing Company, and Chief Financial Officer, and later Chief Operating Officer of South Beach Beverage Company, known as SoBe. In prior experience, Norm served as Controller for National Football League Properties, Inc., and in various roles at PriceWaterhouse during an eight-year tenure. Norm earned a B.S. in Accounting from the State University of New York at Albany.

Connect with Norm

https://drinkreeds.com/

Drinkvirgils.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drinkreeds/

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Norm Snyder: I have one prerequisite for people that come to work for us. You want to be there and it's just not a job, right? You want to be there to make a difference.

[00:00:13] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hi, and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. You get my conversations with peak performing thought leaders, creatives, and entrepreneurs. We explore how you can innovate through creativity, compassion, and collaboration. I believe that innovation combined with compassion and creative thinking can save the world and I aim to bring you ways.

[00:00:35] You can do it too. If you're enjoying the show, I'd be super grateful. If you could support it by buying me a cup of coffee, you can buy me a cup of@buymeacoffee.com slash Izolda tea. And now let's get on with the show.

[00:00:57] Hey there and welcome to the innovative [00:01:00] mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm super happy that you're here and I'm so honored and happy to have this week's guest on the show. Check this out. Norm Snyder joined Reed's incorporated in September of 2019 as the chief operating officer. He was appointed chief executive officer in March, 2020 prior to joining Reed's norm norm.

[00:01:21] I love that norm served as president and chief executive officer of Avita USA, LLC, and emerging premium new age beverage company that markets and sells a line of ready to drink caffeinated waters prior to a VTA. He served as the president and chief operating officer for Edina for life. He was president and chief executive officer of high falls brewing company and chief financial officer.

[00:01:44] And later chief operating officer of south beach beverage company known as Sobe in prior experience. Mr. Snyder, norm served as the controller for the national football league properties that tells us something about norm and in various roles at Pricewaterhouse during an [00:02:00] eight year tenure norm earned a BS in accounting from the state university of New York at Albany.

[00:02:05] Wow. You have quite the resume norm. Thank you so much for being on the show. Welcome.

[00:02:11] Norm Snyder: Thank you. Good to be

[00:02:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: here. I am. First of all, you have such a wide range of experience and you began. As an accountant, which I think is so it's so fascinating because accounting is in many ways, everything, knowing where you are, knowing where you want to go and knowing the sort of the, the numbers behind it is, is incredibly fascinating to me.

[00:02:37] And I'm wondering, how did you get from? I started in accounting to, I am the CEO of one of my favorite beverage companies reeds. Cause I love the ginger beer and ginger ale. How did that

[00:02:48] Norm Snyder: happen? Well, you know, it kind of goes back to the, before I went to school and, and figuring out what I wanted to do and I, I always had a pension for business [00:03:00] and, but I also thought I wanted to be a lawyer.

[00:03:03] And somehow I threw that into a cup and shook it up and threw it out and accounting came out. And I thought, you know, the, the real basic premise behind it was, is it exactly you touched on if I understand the, you know, the numbers guide, every business, I understand where all the numbers are coming from.

[00:03:21] It would be a great way to learn. It would be a star. So, you know, I spent the formidable part of my career, really working with big fortune 500 corporations and really got to see a lot how they operated and really use the numbers, how to, how to dig in and understand that. And then when I got on the business side, I loved it even more.

[00:03:41] So I knew that, you know, businesses where I really wanted to be and, you know, in an operating role. And as I progressed, I just, I loved it more and more. And then I found at the end of the day, it really gave me a competitive advantage, being a CEO that understood [00:04:00] numbers and how things work. So I always felt like when it came down to financial negotiations, nobody could, nobody could top me.

[00:04:06] So it was kind of a stepping, stepping stone or a ladder is how to start and where I wanted to go. Then once I got into that side of the business, I fell in love with it. And I just, you know, I knew that was that's where I wanted to be. And, and that's where I am now.

[00:04:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, that's fascinating to me, this notion of having a springboard and then you innovated from there and you develop this incredible career from something that is as basic as numbers, but they can be really complicated and.

[00:04:40] It's interesting to me because reads is I am going to be very I've. I've been drinking reads since the nineties, when I first heard about it and, and started, it was only available like in the natural health food stores type places, it wasn't widely available and yet you've been innovating and making it so much more [00:05:00] prevalent everywhere.

[00:05:00] I would love it for, for those of you listening, who have not heard about reeds, you need to go out and get it's so good if you, especially, if you like ginger, but norm I would love it. If you would talk a little bit about reads where it was when you started and where it is today. And if you could tell just a little bit about what the company is, I would love that.

[00:05:19] Norm Snyder: Well, let me just, let me, let me say a couple of things before I answer that. Number one. I started drinking it in the nineties too. So, you know, I've been in, I was a consumer long before I became involved with a company. The other thing too is, you know, throughout your career and I'll, I'll say this to any young people that are looking for advice, I've also had great mentors.

[00:05:41] And one of the reasons why I'm here ironically, is a guy that I started working for over 30 years ago in NFL properties, named John bellow. And, and you know, if you look at spots on my resume, there's a lot of spots that he was involved with. And, and he has been very instrumental in my career in terms of [00:06:00] learning and pattering pattern things of him.

[00:06:04] So that's important too. Now reads reads is a, a great company. And one of the things that I love about it and this, this is what makes me feel good when I wake up every morning. And I talk about. You know, we just came out with this campaign called Reno reads is real or reads. I got to make sure I get this right.

[00:06:25] You know, real real is always better. That's it? And we, if you take a look at our ingredients panel and if you know how we make our products, they are so far superior than any of our competitors by far. And that makes me feel really good because we're offering consumers, you know, the best ginger beer, the best ginger ale, you know, the best craft sodas that we have.

[00:06:52] And, you know, Reed's was, it's a 30 year old company started by a gentleman in Southern California named Chris Reed who had this [00:07:00] idea and he loved ginger. And that the world really knew nothing about ginger, except for maybe, you know, in a Chinese food menu. Right. And all the great properties that ginger has.

[00:07:13] And created this all natural, better for you drink. And which started because if you go back in 30 years ago, the only, the only, the only channel that would carry such a thing was that were natural stores. Right? And then it morphed into grocery stores because groceries as natural stores became bigger and started stealing business from grocery stores, grocery stores said, wow, we've got to start offering more natural products, right.

[00:07:39] And you know, most mainstream grocery stores today have a fairly large section of natural products or have natural products that are interspersed within the regular categories. So we kind of morphed off into that. And you know, we've been growing ever since because obviously [00:08:00] as people become more educated and understand the great properties that a lot of these products have and become more knowledgeable.

[00:08:09] And want better for you products. You know, it's the classic supply meets demand scenario, and we've been able to fill that gap.

[00:08:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking all of that in for a second because it's in many ways looking at it from, from an economics standpoint, that whole idea of supply and demand is it's as old as time.

[00:08:32] And yet there are some innovations here that are, that are fascinating to me because the innovation, when Mr. Reed started the company was all natural ingredients as specially focusing on actual ginger instead of this sort of, oh, ginger, if you will. And, and that was different. That was really different. I remember thinking that when I first started drinking it and that, that it tasted like ginger, not [00:09:00] fo ginger, if you will.

[00:09:01] And so. How does that work when you're starting something like this. And I know you haven't been with the company all that long, but, but you're still innovating. You're coming out with new campaigns. How does, how does somebody decide, you know what, I'm going to do things in a way that people aren't thinking about like all natural ingredients, actual, fresh ginger in the sodas, instead of fake ginger or whatever, what do you think the mindset has to be of someone who takes that kind of chance?

[00:09:32] Norm Snyder: I think they truly believe in and stayed true to their convictions of this is what they want, and this is good. And I'm spin up persevere and educate as many people as possible. And hopefully they'll feel the way I do. I mean, obviously anybody that takes that type of risk, right. And anybody that creates something that sticks for 30 years has done something pretty tremendous my view.

[00:09:56] And so one of the things we, we, we, we [00:10:00] haven't deviated. From its founding guiding principle that Chris started. And that's why, you know, it came back to this whole thing. That real is always better than, you know, 30 years we're still doing it the way he did it and his garage or his kitchen. Right. We were still using organic, real ginger that we import from Peru.

[00:10:28] And we still make it the same way and we still make it the, what he refers to as the Jamaican inspired recipe, which is fruit juices. So we use pineapple, lemon, lime and honey. Right. And you know, what I've tried to do is just improve the efficiencies of how we put all that together. Right. And not deviate, but as you mentioned, innovate, so.

[00:10:53] That's a great next step in you know, what, how we innovate is because if you look at the ginger beer category [00:11:00] relative to other beverage categories, it's, it's, it's kinda small. And, and a lot of competitors saw the successor reads as an up comment and obviously that takes market share. And if you look at, if you look at ginger beer consumers you know, it's kind of a mix and it's, it's, it's used as a mixer, obviously with the popularity of Moscow mules and dark and Stormys, and that's quite frankly how I met reads with overall Moscow over a few Moscow mules

[00:11:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: in

[00:11:31] Norm Snyder: those special copper cups, but those copper mugs, right.

[00:11:34] And then. But you have some folks that like, drink it, like I use the Jamaican inspired recipe. We had to make a woman that worked for us and how everybody makes their own home version. But, you know, they, they drink it like a soda. So it's a mix that, you know, people that drink it like a soda they use it as a mixer, actually, there's people that drink it because of that helps their digestion.

[00:11:58] It helps them, they have [00:12:00] nausea. You know, we have a lot of like cancer patients, believe it or not that reach out to us because it helps them. So you know, kind of, that's sort of very limited type of audience. So, you know, one of the things that we thought of, which was kind of a natural is the ginger ale category, which people drink, drink ginger ale the same way.

[00:12:21] I mean, my grandmother gave it to me one in an upstairs upset stomach and my mother gave it to. If you go to the hospital, they give it to you. Right. But it's a much broader category. It's not as you know, you don't have quite the ginger burn that you do in ginger beer. But we sent cheese. Why aren't we in the ginger ale cannon?

[00:12:39] I mean, and as we peel back the onion a little bit, we found once again, that nobody's really using fresh ginger or real ginger, they're using ginger flavoring, ginger extracts. So we took that formula and applied it to our ginger ale. And again, it's one of our it's, it's probably our fastest growing product right now.

[00:12:59] [00:13:00] And you mentioned that you would be drinking your zero calorie, ginger beer. I've been drinking like zero calorie, ginger ELLs, like they're going out of style. Right? I just love the flavor. You know, it's, you know, it's, again, it's a great product. We took the foundation of our ginger beer and created this.

[00:13:19] You know, a great way we have innovated. Then we took it a step further and we came up with mocktails. Cause we found out that a lot of folks said, Hey, I want to go out, but I don't want to feel like I have to have an alcoholic drink in my hand. So, you know, and, and if I think in your, in your neck of the woods in Brooklyn, there's been non-alcoholic bars that have popped up, right?

[00:13:39] People would go off that want to have fun and socialize, but don't want to feel like they have to drink. So we came up with these ginger rail based mocktails, surely temp on our versions called Shirley tempting and then transfusion, which is you know, which has been a very popular drink. So obviously if you want to mix it with alcohol, you can.

[00:13:58] But if you don't, you have a [00:14:00] really great, healthy zero calorie beverage that you can enjoy and, and not feel like you have to have to have consume it with alcohol. So I think that's a great sort of three step, how we've really pivoted and innovative to give folks. A great quality product. It's all natural, but that they can drink at the, at the occasion that they'd feel the most appropriate.

[00:14:23] And the reactions then really, really possible.

[00:14:27] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And I'm so glad that you said that because I am not a huge drinker and I'm usually the designated driver, you know? So, so it's really nice to be able to go. I would like something that, that is going to taste great. It's going to, this is going to sound a little weird, but it's gonna look good if you see what I mean.

[00:14:47] I

[00:14:47] Norm Snyder: don't want to feel out of place. Right? You want to feel like you're you're, you're, you're, you're you're you fit in with everybody. And then that's the beauty of these things. And you know, one of the things that I do and I love part of my job is so [00:15:00] I, we have six production facilities across the country.

[00:15:03] Every production run that they do, they should product. So my office looks like a collection of bottles, right. And I have a mini refrigerator and I drink, I try and both warm, ambient temperature and cold, but I drink multiple products every day from different locations where they're produced to locate for quality, be for consistency.

[00:15:25] But I mean, I want to drink this stuff cause I want to know if a consumer says something, but I can say, look, I had that this is what I believe. Or, you know, do I detect there's an issue because if there's an issue we need to fix it. So I do that every day. I mean, I drink multiple products every day, seven, you know, all the time in the office, but I, but I have a collection of all of our production stuff, so I know what's going on and I know what our consumers are picking up.

[00:15:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. I, you know, it's funny going, going into a bar or [00:16:00] pub and ordering something, nonalcoholic feels sometimes I've had people say, oh, you must be in AA. And I'm like, no, just didn't want to drink. And so, so this it's, it's a weird way. It's a weird way of passing actually, because fewer people will talk to you about that sort of thing.

[00:16:20] Not that it's any of their business, but yet something that, that is interesting to me about what you just said about making sure that the consumer experience is a positive one. That's, that's one of the, that's one of the results, right? Is that people feel more comfortable drinking it and something else that I would love to ask you about, you said, That you check in as far as whether or not things are going well from all the production facilities.

[00:16:49] And I like to say that an innovator is a creative thinker on a mission. And it sounds to me like you're embodying that this notion of checking in, of being very [00:17:00] practical. Can you talk a little bit about what those steps are? How does that, how do you keep innovating while staying very practical in the evaluation and assessment process?

[00:17:13] Norm Snyder: Well, because the innovation is the fun part, right? It really, it really is. I mean, you can, you can come up with a wackiest ideas and it's like a release, right? It's like, you can get all this stuff off your chest, off your mind. I mean, I'm like, it's kinda funny. It's ruined me forever being in the beverage business.

[00:17:35] Cause I can't go into a store and just buy stuff. I've got to go to the beverage section. I got to go to the coolers. I got to check out what's going on. You know, I look at there's all this scan data. So it's syndicated data that either Nielsen or IRI puts out that shows by category what's selling.

[00:17:53] What's not selling by package. I mean I love data too. So it's kind of like, see you assimilate all this stuff that [00:18:00] you're seeing, that you hear people talking about. I have I have three 20 year old children. Well actually I have five but three that are in their twenties and I'll watch what they drink and what their friends drank and what they talk about.

[00:18:12] Like I said, when I go into stores, I, no matter what I'm doing, if I'm going on mission a, I always end up in the beverage outlet, check out what's going on. So it's the fun part is the innovation thinking, this is what I think people want. We do a lot of research this based on what the research tells us people want.

[00:18:30] So we'll put together a product concept. This is what it becomes a little bit more formal, but a product concept, and then work with our R and D department to create something. And then the fun part is that, that first time that you taste it and does that product really reflect what you're trying to do.

[00:18:50] Right. And sometimes you get there very quickly and sometimes it takes a dozen iterations. And sometimes you just say, can't get there. Can't get there. No, [00:19:00] one's gonna, no, one's going to drink this. So that's kind of the fun part. Because it's part science part our, you know, part into it in intuitive and, you know, and I do it with, you know, a lot of people within our organization.

[00:19:14] Right. So it's just not me. It's everybody. And it's kind of like free flow. I've got to make sure I said that slowly free flow thinking where people can just kind of like, say what's on there. Right. And you know, you watch trends and you have data and you do other stuff and you try to put it all together and come up with a decision that makes sense.

[00:19:35] But you know, we do that on the premise of who we are and what are our, what are our key values, right? It has to be within those because what if we deviate from what our values are then who are we really? Right. So we try to, we try to stay within that sort of bandwidth of who we are and what we want to be.

[00:19:56] And, you know, some, like I said, sometimes it just feels really good. It's [00:20:00] like, boy, we nailed this. And sometimes it's like, well, it could be a stretch, but does it work? And sometimes we come back and just say, that's not us. So it's the fun part of the job. And it's the part that's unstructured and very loose and very flowing and it's fun.

[00:20:15] And you know, I'm really, I'm really proud that as an organization, we have no shortage of really good ideas. And, and, and like, you know, we, we've got the next two to three years covered, right? Not saying that if we, if something new comes up that we could react quickly, but we have that, we have that many ideas that are, that are good.

[00:20:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's fantastic. And I'm, I'm struck by the notion of including everybody that it's not just you making the decisions, it's you working with your team with, with the people who make up the company. And I'm wondering that that's in many ways, an innovative thing. Also, I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about [00:21:00] how you structure that if there is a, you said it's free flowing, but there has to be some sort of a, almost a process when you're doing something iteratively like that.

[00:21:10] How do you do that?

[00:21:11] Norm Snyder: Yeah, what we we've, we've developed, not that we want to be burdened with structure. But at the same time, it just can't be shooting from the hip. So we develop. Can can you to develop processes once we get to that formal stage of, yeah, let's do this. But so my job is which is hire as many good people as possible.

[00:21:33] Right. And let them do the work and let me take the credit. Right. My, my job is to really kind of, I'm almost like the, the conductor in the orchestra and there's different sections and there's people with different strengths and different weaknesses. And after you work with folks, you get to, you get to know what their strengths are.

[00:21:53] So, you know, when something comes up like this person or that person, or this group of people are the ones that [00:22:00] I'm going to listen to a little bit more, that's shut other people out because you know, there's been good ideas that come from from people, you know, you don't expect, but, and it's sort of it's, and I'll tell you, it's kind of spontaneous because.

[00:22:14] I'll start on one project and it all either be bogged down or something else will come up and then I need a break and I'll just say, all right, let's cut. Let's taste. Right. Let's taste. We've got a bunch of stuff that we've been working on. Let's taste it and we'll sit there and you gotta be careful because you can't, once you taste too much, your taste buds become severely ineffective, as well as your ability to smell.

[00:22:40] So you really got to kind of measure yourself, but it could be spontaneous. Like let's do it, or let's talk about this. Or then we, or we schedule, you know, we have we, we have weekly meetings and deal with all these things and a lot of it starts, but then we may say, let's just have a meeting dedicated to this one topic on X date.[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] Right? So we, there is a little bit of spontaneity largely because of my schedule, but I think it works well. And sometimes people say, Hey, I've got this. What do you think? And I'm like, let's do it right now. So that, that makes it kind of fun too. But once we get serious, we do have a very documented process and we have people that are responsible for aspects of that development.

[00:23:24] And we fine tuned it over the line. We have fine tuned the process over the last year and it's gotten really good, really good. Like we're working on a couple projects right now. And because of that, I think we're ahead of the game ahead of where we, where we should be, because we've done a real good job of tracking ourselves and communicating.

[00:23:48] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm sorry. I'm pausing because I'm, I I'm taking all of it. Tracking yourselves and communicating those two are so collaboration to me is, [00:24:00] so it's people say it's a buzzword, but I think it's so important where everybody feels like they can contribute. And also that they're valued and valuable. So, so communicating their ideas, communicating through the process is fantastic.

[00:24:13] But tracking that, that to me as, as, as more of a creative thinker, the notion of tracking things like that makes my head explode. Just because it's, it sounds like there potentially so many details. Can you talk a little bit about what the, what the ideas are behind traffic tracking and what it is that you're actually tracking?

[00:24:35] Norm Snyder: I think you just answered the question. There's so many details, right? I mean, at the end of the day we build it forward, but I'm going to do it. I'm going to reverse engineer because I think this is easier to explain. Say you, you have this great concept and you know, right now everything's on cycle, right?

[00:24:59] So [00:25:00] the, sell it into a channel or, or a retail chain, you know, they have their meetings on X day and then they make changes on Y date. Right. And they're pretty, I mean, think about this. Cause you're dealing with hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of products and you just can't like do it every day and every week.

[00:25:21] So they have these fixed periods. So you know what those are and see your work backwards. And you say, okay, we're going to launch X, Y, Z product at this retailer because this is where we really feel like we have to start. So, you know, the date that you can present, you know, the dates that, that they'll do resets at store.

[00:25:41] Then you kind of work backwards and say, okay, what do we have to do to get to that point? Right. What are all the steps? And it's, you know, it's, it's starts at concept. The first thing is the liquid, you know, what's the liquid look and taste like, right. And what do you want that liquid [00:26:00] back to that whole, you know, that whole product brief, what does it represent?

[00:26:05] And then you kind of go forward into, okay, when do we, you know, final product approval. And then from there artwork and labeling package configuration, and then you've got to produce it. So you have to have all your, you know, source all your raw materials and just about every piece of raw material, except for the liquid itself is branded.

[00:26:28] And then, you know, legal, is it, you know, are we infringing in anybody's intellectual property? If not, is it available? Can we can. And then what sort of campaign are we going to have behind it? And then when are we w you know, when do we go, when do we actually scale up to a full production mode? And when can we have that product in our warehouses and when can we ship it?

[00:26:51] So it's, you know, all these various aspects, which involves every department, right? Sales, marketing, [00:27:00] operations, finance. So it's a multi, multi departmental collaboration and meeting where we're tracking and making, checking the box. Do we have that covered? Do we have that covered? Do we have that covered then?

[00:27:14] What's the timing? I mean, because depending on the package, if it's a specialized package, we may have to, we may have to put something in at the plant that produces it because they can't produce that package. So, so all these questions, you know, and, and where are you sourcing the ingredients and what's the lead times, right?

[00:27:33] So. Yeah, and you want to kind of time it, right? Where you have product packaging, you know, artwork that you can share to sell it in and they can taste it. And then to be able to put a final product on their shelves the day, the day that they want it. And that's the process. And if you don't document it, you're going to miss something.

[00:27:57] So, and it, you know, we have someone that [00:28:00] leads to that process that brings everybody together, then holds them accountable as to where do we stand with this? You're supposed to get back to us on that. Where do we stand on this aspect? Where's that aspect. And you know, again, it, it, it, it brings, you know, it brings the organization closer together.

[00:28:17] I mean, we're not a big organization and, and you know what, not just, not just brands, make organizations successful it's people and how they, how they play off and interact with, with one another. So, you know, you can understand like what, you know today. I remember when I was a little kid and the Beatles were popular right.

[00:28:37] Today, you put on a Beatles record and it sounds contemporary, right? Like they haven't lost anything. And, you know, granted they wrote great music, but together as a unit, what, what just, you know, one plus one plus one plus one was like 24 and I believe it, I believe organizations are the same way where if people click [00:29:00] together intellectually, if they, if they collect together spiritually, if they click together on so many different levels, you're more powerful.

[00:29:09] Right. And, and this process really brings out the best in an organization.

[00:29:17] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that you use the Beatles analogy. I mean, I agree the Beatles solo band on the run is a great album, but nothing can compare that they did solo two rubber soul and revolver. So I slightly completely take your point. And, and it's interesting to me how everybody, every person in your organization sounds again like, like they're encouraged to contribute and then also need to contribute.

[00:29:43] And that you, someone who is an implementer, someone who is, or maybe an integrator who goes, yes, this is my job to make sure that that everybody is on track. And again, that's one of my challenges I sometimes take on too many projects. Have you ever found that happens [00:30:00] with the course?

[00:30:01] Norm Snyder: How do you handle that?

[00:30:04] It's difficult. That's that's something that you have to watch very, very carefully, but it's something that C C w. I have one prerequisite for people that come to work for us, you want to be there and it's just not a job, right? You want to be there to make a difference and you could be the guy that mops the floors, but you're going to make a difference.

[00:30:26] Right? And I want everyone to feel empowered that they do make a difference in quite frankly, they do, because if one employee doesn't do their job, the whole company suffers. Right? So there's nowhere to hide. And I don't mean that to add pressure to people, but it kind of, it sets the, it sets the bar high, where I want you to be, want to be here.

[00:30:49] I want you to want to make a difference and I want you don't want to contribute. And when you have people thinking at that level you get great results and then, but you're right. But then the negative side is [00:31:00] you gotta be careful that people don't take on too much because when they do that's when errors occur and errors, aren't good.

[00:31:09] Because obviously it adversely impacts the company, but it adversely impacts that individual. Right. And I, you know, I also believe that look, I've, I'm a hard worker. I've worked hard my entire life. My family accuses me of being a workaholic. And there's been many Fridays when we're supposed to do something to grow some place and dad's still at work or on a phone and everybody's angry with him.

[00:31:35] But I also believe that you need time off to refresh your batteries and to have fun and enjoy your family or whatever you want to do during your time off. So I really encourage that as well. But when you're here, I want 150%. Now I want you to want to be here, but you're right. That, that the tough part is I've had several employees.

[00:31:56] I've had to, it's kind of funny. I've had to admonish and [00:32:00] say, I don't want you doing that. I want you to doing this. This is where you're the most effective. And I don't want you burnout. Or I had one employee. I told him if I saw an email from him after 11 o'clock at night, I was going to fire him because he was burning the candle at both ends.

[00:32:18] And I'm like, I don't want you doing that. So that, that, that's something you have to watch. And then, you know, I never thought about it to you brought that up, but that's something that you definitely have to watch is that people get so caught up in it and they take on too much. And it's, and it's not that a desperation because they want to, and they can.

[00:32:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sure, but it doesn't matter does it because they can still burn out. Even if you care about something you can still burn out. So, so balance in all things I think is, is the way to go and something that I, speaking of balance, this is a weird transition, but here it goes. One of the things that I noticed as far as the packaging of reads, and this is because I'm a [00:33:00] artistic type person and I love colors from very early on.

[00:33:03] I remember thinking, wow, the ginger ale is more yellow. The ginger beer is more green and then there's always an orange accent. This is yes. I noticed these things in here. It is. So, so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the design, how, if, you know, because you weren't at the company yet, but how did that all happen?

[00:33:24] What w what were the colors chosen? I know that they're white, yellow, orange, but, but how does that all translate into how you're innovating now with the, with the way the product is presented?

[00:33:38] Norm Snyder: I think we've, I mean, obviously we, we like that to sign cause we, we, we, we stay with it. I just think it sort of reflects that whole motif, you know, the Jamaican inspired ginger beer.

[00:33:49] I think that's what if I had to put my finger on it, it kind of comes down to that and it sends off that whole sort of tropical image, [00:34:00] which is reflects that, you know, the style of the, of the Jew, our ginger beer, and then something that like, if you look at now, we really use the Palm trees and our ginger ale and our mocktails.

[00:34:11] So we've kind of stayed true to that. And it just feels, you know, colors in the, in the whole creative element. Yes, I guess there is a bit of a science to it, but I look at a more of what's appealing to the eye and where, and where does your eye go and what, what does it catch and what does it reflect?

[00:34:31] And, you know, obviously there's, you talked to a designer and they're going to tell you, you should paint your kitchen, this color, because it, it creates appetite and, and vibrancy. And this room, you want this color because it creates that and bedrooms, you want this color because you want them to be serene and comfortable.

[00:34:48] And I think labels are kind of the same way. Right? And it just stayed on that whole sort of Jamaican slash tropical theme of who we were. And [00:35:00] the roots of it's really in the ginger beer. Right. And again, we haven't, you know, we've made it more contemporary, but we haven't deviated from that basic story.

[00:35:13] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, cause it works right. And it's instantly recognizable and that's something, that's something that was great for me again, when I started drinking reeds in the, in the nineties was that you could, oh, I could always find them. And, and I, I don't know how quite it was quite how to say it, but I'm just going to say it, it feels to me like the, the beverage industry is really crowded.

[00:35:36] You've got the, the big giant.

[00:35:38] Norm Snyder: Oh yes, it is. Yes. You know, you know, let me come back that for a second. The two things that are really haven't talked about is we've sort of dominated the conversation with our reads portfolio, but we also have another perhaps of portfolio called Virgil's. Right. Which is, you know, we bought it in 94, so that's [00:36:00] 27 years.

[00:36:00] So it's, you know, it's in the same age group is reads and again, it's, it's. But the same basic premise, all natural non-GMO. And we haven't talked about, you know, this aspect where a lot of consumers now, and the trends are, are no sugar, right? Zero calorie, no sugar. They're keto friendly, certified keto friendly.

[00:36:25] You'd mentioned you, you know, you consume the zero sugar, ginger beer. And I talked about the zero sugar ginger ale, but, you know, I drink a lot of I drink all of our stuff, but we've. Well actually reads had it. We brought it back, our doctor better, which is a pepper flavored item, but we have a great, you know, root beer among other flavors.

[00:36:47] And you know, we have this proprietary sweetening system, that's all natural that tastes gray and has no aftertaste. So one of the things about [00:37:00] zero sugar items, people tend to plug their nose and they can taste it because it's zero sugar, but it has a bit of an aftertaste. And our son doesn't and we haven't really spent a lot of, and so in terms of innovation now, we're, we're looking for something that has mouth feel and flavor that emulates a full sugar drink, but has no calories and is all natural.

[00:37:26] And, you know, again, that's a big part of our innovation. We're seeing a lot of growth at our zero sugar line, both reads and Virgil's, but you know, we think we have the best tasting zero sugar product, you know, on the market. And that's another thing where we've, I think done a really good job job of innovating.

[00:37:48] And again, staying true to who we are all natural, but trying to give the best experience to our consumers as possible. And like I said, I drank these every day and sometimes [00:38:00] I drink and I'm like, I have to look at the, I have to look at the label and say, damn, did we do we put sugar in this all of a sudden, because it tastes that good in the muffins that good.

[00:38:09] So those are two things, you know, virtuals and the zero sugar line, which we have across our entire portfolio. And we use, which I think gives a far superior taste and a taste. That really is the closest thing in the marketplace in Miami. That you can get to a full sugar equivalent.

[00:38:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: It's so interesting.

[00:38:32] You're talking about mouthfeel. And one of the things I, I, my husband accuses me of being a supertaster because I can taste certain things from a mile away and what I don't like, I definitely don't like if you know what I'm doing, and what's interesting to me about drinking breeds, first of all, I'm vegan.

[00:38:50] And so the zeros, I know the other ones aren't vegan, but the zero sugar are vegan. There's no honey in them. And, and that makes me so very happy because now I can [00:39:00] drink reeds and again, and so what, what's fascinating to me about what you're saying this notion of, as I said, mouthfeel, is, is that it is about the experience, not just of drinking the drink, but how you feel after you've drunk it.

[00:39:16] And that's a, and maybe because I'm not as familiar with the beverage industry as, as I could be. I didn't think that that was something that a company would be thinking about. I would think that it would be, and this correct me if I'm wrong, that it would be more like, oh, you know, our products, you like our products, you buy our products.

[00:39:35] Yay. But mouthfeel is a post experience thing. Can you talk a little bit about what it is that you're trying to, what it is, what mouthfeel is just for clarification and also what it is that you're trying to achieve with the drinking experience for the person who's opened up a bottle of reeds?

[00:39:55] Norm Snyder: Well, let me, let me just make a comment about supertasters.

[00:39:58] They scare me, but I love [00:40:00] them at the same time, because it's a unique group of people. And I can tell when people comment I'm like, that must be a supertaster because they have the ability to taste things in both positive and imperfections. The vast majority of people don't taste. So that's always good.

[00:40:18] And w we actually, we have a couple of supertasters in our office, which I love to bring them in to taste stop, because they can pick up imperfections that most people can't. So that's a great skillset. So mouthfeel the best way to describe it, describe it as like, so take a glass of water and take a chocolate milkshake.

[00:40:37] Right. And those are like two extremes and how they're going to feel in your mouth. And it, and a lot of mafia is about what you perceive it to be. Right. So when you think about children and all my kids were really finicky eaters, it wasn't so much about taste. It's how that, that food felt in their mouth.

[00:40:58] Right. [00:41:00] So, so if mom feels such an important aspect of it, and again, a lot of it's perception, but so. In a typical beverage and let's go back to before zero sugar diet sodas were, were there the best way to describe it, let me see if I can get this right. So the flavor is the music, right? But the sugar is the amplifier, right?

[00:41:30] It takes it up a notch, it makes it loud. It makes it bold and it really gives it that mouthfeel. So you know, if you say you're vegan, I've been on a couple of these podcasts and other things with some other great entrepreneurial people in the food and beverage space. And when they talk about zero sugar for baking fill and mouthfeel are important because that's what you can't use, like Stevia at a banquet.

[00:41:57] Right. It just, it's just awful. [00:42:00] So. When you think about sugar, not only gives it that flavor, that amplification of those flavors and makes it pop it gives it that mouthfeel that you expect that again, that you feel like you're like, you could almost chew it, but you don't bite into with it. It tastes that good.

[00:42:17] And it's that satisfying? It's not just like, Kool-Aid, it's just not like flavored water. That's the big distinction between, you know, our craft sodas and our ginger beers is that mouthfeel. And when you take sugar out, right, and we use cane sugar. So cane sugar direct to me has better mouth feel than just regular sugar or high-fructose corn syrup, which the mass majority of mainstream beverages use.

[00:42:43] You take away that. And with the zero sugar, you can get the flavor, but then it tastes like flavored water. So you need that mouthfeel, that sort of bite to it. Makes it feel like you're drinking a full sugar because it's not just the flavor, it's the feel. [00:43:00] Right. And we've, that's we really taste, you know, mouthfeel when zero sugar, not just flavor, but sweetness and mouthfeel.

[00:43:10] It, does it feel light? Does it feel too heavy? Does it feel right? And we spent a lot of time on that and developing our zero sugar because we want it to emulate a full sugar taste. Most consumers have basically said, okay, I'll deal with a compromise on flavor. I'll compromise on mouthfeel. Cause I don't want sugar, make it to overstay.

[00:43:35] Say I'm going to pick and choose where I get my calories. I'm going to pick and choose if I want sugar where I'm going to get it from many, say I don't, I want to eliminate sugar entirely from my diet. So we want to give them. That product that they feel like they're having that indulgence. Right, right.

[00:43:54] Without the negative things that they're trying to avoid. And why should you have to, why should you have [00:44:00] to plug your notes are chunked down and just say, okay, the zero sugar, I'm going to accept it. Right. And we want to say to our consumers, or to all consumers, you don't have to compromise. You can have your cake and eat it too.

[00:44:14] So to speak, right. Zero

[00:44:16] Izolda Trakhtenberg: sugar cake. Yeah.

[00:44:18] Norm Snyder: Look at, I drink and that's what I drink. Zero sugar. So I'm, you know, personally motivated because I want drink the best thing and I can drink and have the best flavor. So we really take that very serious. And that's what, again, stay true. Who do we are the best tasting, all natural, bold flavors, real as possible.

[00:44:40] And when we develop products, that's the goal. And ML feels important because like I said, I've, I've opened a can of something I've drank it, like our black cherry. And I'm like, my God, this tastes so good. And I know what the answer is, but I still look at the back of the can to make sure it doesn't say sugar.

[00:44:59] Right. [00:45:00] And that's, I want, you know, and I want to feel that way about all of our products and that's our, that's our goal for, you know, for, for zero sugar products, make them feel like they're full sugar, then there's no compromise in the base. Fabulous.

[00:45:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's awesome. And it's interesting to hear you talk about it with, with such passion about, about these products, because otherwise, why do it right if you're not going to, if you're, if you're not going to be really, really in love with, with the work and. And this is something that I, I love the way you described it.

[00:45:45] It feels almost like drinking. The drink is a tactile experience in addition to being a taste experience with. Yeah, it is. It really is. It's fascinating.

[00:45:55] Norm Snyder: I mean, even like look at our products are carbonated having the right carbonation [00:46:00] because that matters because people that like, I, I drink, I love carbonated products.

[00:46:07] I drink sparkling water. Right. I drink our sodas. I love carbonation. And I'm very particular about carbonation. Carbonation is almost like sugar. It's like the tone, right? It's the base of the trouble, the music, if it's right, it makes everything perfect. If it's off it, throws it off and you know, that's another, another element of mouthfeel.

[00:46:32] And then the attribute of the product that. We spend a lot of time in like sometimes when we do our samples, our samples lab can't get the carbonation level that we want. So we try to do our best with that, but it just shows you how important that aspect is too. And that we really watch and that's, and that's, you know, the thing I do when I open our product.

[00:46:57] Oh, easy. Does that twist open? Does it [00:47:00] make that pop? When I poured in, does it, you know, do we get that? Do I see the level of carbonation and fall? Cause that's another really important attribute of our products. When we develop to make sure that they're in the range of carbonation that we think makes the most sense to really accentuate the flavor.

[00:47:18] So it's really, I mean, it is, we are very passionate about it. You're right about it. And it's just not me. It's everybody in the organization. When we taste and we drink our stuff, but those are the things that. At that level and want to make sure that we have an absolutely perfect. So when consumers open that they feel the same way and there's, there's nothing more pleasurable when you get, when you get an email receiving an email from a consumer about your product and how they love it.

[00:47:46] But at the same time, there's nothing like a kick to the gut when somebody has a bad experience. And I'll tell you what, when they have a bad experience, they reach us. We reached back out to them to try to make it better, to try to get, you know, get their input, maybe [00:48:00] clarify something, maybe, you know, sometimes somebody misinterprets what a product really is.

[00:48:05] And you have to kind of help them get there. But, you know, that's that these are important aspects that we're very customer centric and want and are committed to put in the best quality products. And we take every aspect of those products very soon.

[00:48:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And that makes sense, right? That, you know, no company has anything without its clients and customers, you vacuum.

[00:48:29] So, and that's something that, that brings me to my next question. Cause norm, I'm going to keep you here for the next eight hours. I'm fascinated by the fact that people have their favorites, right? They, they might have their favorite as far as reads. They might have their favorite as far as Pepsi or Coke or whatever.

[00:48:44] And REITs has this reputation for being a cut above. But how does that affect the average person who wants to drink are the people who you're serving as a, as an organization, as a company. Are they people who are more discerning in a certain way, or are they people who are [00:49:00] healthier or who want to be healthier?

[00:49:02] How does all of that break down when it comes to what we were just mentioned a little while ago, there's pretty crowded beverage industry.

[00:49:11] Norm Snyder: Well, I think they're definitely discerning and you know, some are kind of sewers that love our product. You know, we're still, we still have growth with all of our full sugar line in today's day and age, which to me, I find amazing.

[00:49:29] I think most people are driven by healthier on natural. And I think that's really probably the mindset of our consumer. They want natural ingredients. They want healthier products. They don't want preservatives. They don't want artificial colors, artificial flavors. They don't want high fructose corn syrup if they're drinking sugar.

[00:49:52] So I think those are the things that they clearly read labels are. I think our consumers are label readers, which [00:50:00] I think is great for us because they know what they want and they're not going to compromise. And I think that the trends are going that way. I think those are the you know, Where people want and they, you know, and when they indulge, they want to indulge in something that's good for, you know, that's good.

[00:50:16] Not just something that's crap, that's artificial. So I think people are more, more educated obviously, and they know what they want in their diet, but they still, everybody still wants things that tastes good. Right. I mean, that's one thing that hasn't changed. So if you can deliver something that tastes fabulous but it's healthier and it's all natural.

[00:50:38] That's, that's our consumer. But in terms of flavors, everyone's taste buds are different. You know, you could taste something and I could taste it and we taste two totally different things. So that's what you have to be careful. That's why I called you. We can't be the empire that listens to the crowd.

[00:50:55] No, because the empire in a good day, when he makes 50% of the people happy. Right. [00:51:00] So we can't, you know, you're not going to make everybody happy with every flavor. Sure. People taste things differently and that's how they pick their flavors. But you hope that the flavors that they like that you satisfied it just, you know, the flavor spectrum and how people taste.

[00:51:16] It is wild. And even when we do our tasting, how people react to what they pick up on, but I mean, you can't criticize people because that's what they perceive and that's what they taste. Right. And you can't tell them what they taste. So that's always the big challenge. So it's kind of like stick to what you're trying to, what you're trying to produce, whether it's an orange or vanilla cream or a root beer, that's our best.

[00:51:40] And you hope that people like it, but you can't be. And then you can't get frustrated because people may have, I mean, cause what if somebody says, Hey, I bought this, this and this, I love this, but didn't like that. Well, you know, maybe you don't, that's not the flavor. Doesn't jive well with your, your, your taste buds.[00:52:00]

[00:52:00] So you can't let that discourage you too much because you're never going to have people like everything across the board, as much as we strive to, it's just not going to happen. So you know, we try to whatever flavor it is, this is what, we're one of them. This is what we want to achieve and we're going to make it the best tasting.

[00:52:20] So the people that like that will love our stuff, but you know, coming kind of back, I think that's where the trends are going. You know, obviously we talked about the non alcoholic beverage options, which is growing. We talked about all natural. We talked about zero sugar. And I think people just want healthier, better for you products.

[00:52:38] And then. And in the case where our ginger beer is where we're using ginger, you know, there's some efficacy with ginger, right? And that's, I think what sets us apart with our ginger rail and our ginger beer is we're getting, you're getting real ginger and those products and real ginger has a lot of great properties that we hear from our [00:53:00] consumers all the time, all the time, why they drink our product and how grateful they are, that it exists.

[00:53:06] And that, you know, we used real ginger in those products.

[00:53:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah. I mean, I love it. When I go on the few occasions, I've had to go sailing in my life. I bring reads, frankly. I know I sound like a commercial for you all, but, but I bring it because to, to stave off being seasick, it's wonderful for that. So, so yeah, absolutely.

[00:53:28] I, I understand. And I love what you just said about perception and how. Your perception of what you're tasting is so unique to each individual person. I think that's, I think that's so important and, and you know, to me, something that's good for you and tastes bad is medicine and something is for you and tastes good.

[00:53:48] Doesn't necessarily have to be that way. It can be something that you're just enjoying and, and yet, you know, we've just, we're, we're sort of coming out of this pandemic where a lot of people [00:54:00] have had all sorts of obviously obviously big issues and Reed's play has played a role. I'm sure in many people going, okay, I need my comfort and this is, this could be my ginger ale and my ginger beer.

[00:54:13] What has gone on if you, if you can talk about it a little bit, what are some of the challenges that Reed's faced during the pandemic and, and the, how have you dealt with them and, and, and where are you going next with respect to this new future that we're going to be living.

[00:54:30] Norm Snyder: That's a great question. I was thinking about this.

[00:54:31] So I went out and I was at a one of our production locations yesterday. So traveling back, you know, you got a lot of time to think. So I'm thinking about that. And I'm like, man talking about the economy of two worlds. So during the pandemic, we actually benefited because people I think went back to brands, they could trust brands that reflect quality and brands that were healthier.

[00:54:59] [00:55:00] And we had a really good year right now. What I didn't really see coming post pandemic. And I don't think anybody did for that matter was what's going on with the supply chain and transportation in this country. There's so much pent up demand. Right. And then with people losing jobs like I was in I was in And Philadelphia last night at the, at the airport and the place was jam packed.

[00:55:29] Right. And I'm watching it. And I just, I love, I love seeing stuff happened and I've got a chance to talk to the manager. And you said, our business is up 30% over last year. Our staff has done 40%. I'm thinking, wow, that's, that's gotta be really taxing. So the point is the big challenge this year, which we had some issues that we, we, we, but we worked it [00:56:00] out.

[00:56:00] Supply chain is, is just been very difficult to manage. I mean, for example, you can get cans in the United States. Every Ken manufacturer is at capacity. So people are importing cans from all over the world. Well guess what happens with that? There's all the ports of this country are congested. So.

[00:56:21] What would normally be a four month lead time could be a seven, eight month lead time because we ordered something from Europe and it sat sad. The Pacific sat in the ocean for two months before it could even get a dock time. And then once you get a dock time to get through customs and get unloaded. So the supply chain it's been probably the most difficult I've seen in my entire career by far transportation.

[00:56:47] I talked about the port congestion. I think I read something for every truck. There's 12 loads to go on that truck. Wow. So, you know, it goes back to what I talked about supply versus [00:57:00] demand. Our transportation costs have gone up of double of double. Wow. And it's like, wow, where did this come from?

[00:57:09] Now? They're starting to come down and. Things are starting to look like they, by the end of the year, it could become more normal or at least in the first part of next year. But so requires you to plan things out more or you know, which we use for a raps in cardboard for containers have longer lead times.

[00:57:31] There's been a shortage of steel for caps to put on your bottles. There's been a shortage of carbonation because the primary supplier carbonation or ethanol plants, and when nobody's driving, no one's using ethanol, right? So the by-product of that. So carbonation is even gone up. What's gone up with pallets that you stack your product now.

[00:57:50] So virtually every aspect of our supply chain has been impacted. And we didn't see this during COVID, you know, we saw some tightening [00:58:00] labor is the other aspect to production facilities are having a hard time hiring people. So it's, it's really touched every facet of our business. So postcode, the post COVID year has been believe it, or not much more challenging than during the pandemic, which I thought once we got through the pandemic, the biggest challenge is going to be changing consumer preferences and tastes and how they shop.

[00:58:28] And that would be enough to challenge us. That's really been, the supply chain has been turned sideways, right? And so when people ask me what keeps you up at night? That's what keeps me up at night, pasta transportation. And snafoos in our supply chain because as good as our people are, we have to think out longer periods of time to avoid issues.

[00:58:56] And we've had a few, we've had a few of them [00:59:00] and it's really unfortunate because it's like, man never had to deal with this before. Not even close, like, as you get older and remember my parents talk about certain parts of life and yeah, I remember that, but we got through it, remember that and we got through it.

[00:59:16] But now this is the most unique I've ever seen, but you know what, we'll power through it. I mean, it's not like we're defeated and, or are hanging our heads down and say, we can't do it. We just work twice as hard. And we know that it's going to return to some aspect of normalcy, but it's been a bigger challenge than most people think.

[00:59:38] And if you pick up any financial press, it's in the paper every day, right. And look, every head impacts every aspect. I mean the buy cars, you can't buy a car, try renting a car. You can't even rent a car today. Right. Cause there's not available. Right. I tried to buy a steroid receiver. I couldn't find the, the brand and model.

[00:59:57] My wife wanted a new washer and dryer, [01:00:00] but we got the last one in the store. The model that she, it, otherwise we had to wait like two months, right? If you want to buy faucets faucets, you must have were out of stock. I mean, so it's impacted virtually every consumer category. There is imaginable this whole supply chain.

[01:00:17] So it's, it's been, it's been a struggle. Like I said, we'll power through it and we're not complaining, but it's, it's definitely changed how we, how we do business.

[01:00:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, sure. I imagine, I mean, whatever supply surplus there was pre pandemic got used up during the pandemic. And now all of a sudden, if you didn't have a supply surplus to carry you for two years, yeah.

[01:00:44] You're going to be short. And, and who did, you know, no one ever thought during, during the pre pandemic or even during the beginning months, no one thought it was going to be this long. And so having to stay agile and having to stay sort of light on your feet[01:01:00] is, has become so important for so many companies.

[01:01:03] And moving, as I said, moving into the future, it's going to be fascinating to see how we all do. If, and when something like this ever happens again, how will we plan for it? And, and that sort of leads me to my next question. And I w I promise I will, I have like a bunch more questions, but I will, I will, I will absolutely stop soon.

[01:01:24] I, I was just wondering, what's your vision for reeds moving into the future? What is your vision for this company?

[01:01:32] Norm Snyder: Well, you know, I, I think we, we've probably talked about this before we w we went on air that the thing that I've seen that I'm really proud of, but it feels good too, is that we're pivoting that we're, we're kind of, you know, the, where we're, we're migrating from, you know, the, what I'll call them all natural ginger beer company that kind of played in one [01:02:00] category to something that's much more.

[01:02:04] Resonates with a much larger group of consumers that really satisfies their demand, but stays true to who we are. And it's been a subtle pivot, but you can see it in the products that are ordered. You can see it on what, you know, what's selling and what's not selling can see it in consumer feedback.

[01:02:23] So I think, you know, the, the vision is continue to produce great tasting all natural beverages and, you know, that are both ginger base, but also our craft, our craft sodas that are healthier that we have, you know, continued to develop great zero calorie, zero sugar products. But, you know, to really look into maybe additional categories, either in the beverage or the food space, but to be sort of that company.

[01:02:57] That really puts out [01:03:00] premium high quality, better for you all natural products. And you know, just like we were able to leverage and successfully grow our business, you know, on the whole premise of ginger, you know, there's other ingredients out there that, Hey, why can't reach, do that too? Right. So, you know, the future is, you know, being that company that really represents that product that consumers can trust that they enjoy drinking and they, they know comes from the finest ingredients source throughout the world.

[01:03:37] And, but also that, you know, we, you know, and we've talked about this too, and it's the first time I touch on this that, you know, really looking at as most companies are that have a, a conscience. You know, aspect of our day-to-day living. And part of that's going to be sustainability, you know, that we're looking into in digging deeper, but, you know, just being a company that, [01:04:00] that reflects the times that we live in, that, you know, doesn't just die and go away because they stayed true to what they used to be.

[01:04:10] I mean, there's so many great examples of that. So many products and companies when I was growing up that were like the big, big players that are just barely hanging on today. Right. And I don't want to be that company that doesn't recognize what consumers want and what are the current trends, but to be on the forefront of that.

[01:04:30] And I think we've really done a good job of pivoting to do that. Right. And that's where I get that sense of what's going on in our company. And I really liked that feeling that we're, we're putting out products that people want and that are happy to have in their hands. But also enjoy tremendously, right.

[01:04:49] And that are relevant to today's consumers. And that's what I want to be. I want to continue to be that way and, and, you know, start from this great idea that really was [01:05:00] innovative, right? Truly innovative in terms of ginger beer and using ginger and to continue on those, that whole premise, but you can't just stick to something and hope that it lasts forever, but to be able to respond accordingly.

[01:05:16] And I think we've, we've, that's been the real KIDO it's reflected in our innovation and who we are. And I think that's what kind of sets us apart too. And it makes it a great place to come to work because that's what we're doing.

[01:05:33] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's fantastic. I love it. I love it. All right. So speaking of the place that you work if you don't mind, how do people find out more about reeds? Do you have a website and Instagram? Could you share that? Because I would love to have that

[01:05:49] Norm Snyder: WW dot drink, read sat com WW dot Frank burgess.com. We have, we have a Facebook page.

[01:05:57] We have an Instagram account. I have [01:06:00] them on my computer, so I just hit the button. But I mean, it's all linked. It's all linked on our on our website, but there's a tremendous amount of stuff there. We have an 800 number for tumors to call. Obviously you can comment on our social media, there's a consumer info email that people can contact us and we do, and we do reach back.

[01:06:19] So it doesn't just, it's not a one-way street. You know, we do respond to. And like I said, there's times that I pick up the phone or email. I mean, let me say we had a, we had a family that ordered some products on Amazon, in our, the, it was, unfortunately, we, there was only available glass, the product broke and they were disappointed.

[01:06:46] I was struggling like 10 year old son. So I read it and I'm like, wait a minute. They're were like two towns away. So I said, reach out to them and tell them that they're going to have a special gas. That's going to deliver the product. And I showed up at the, [01:07:00] and they wouldn't let me leave. The kid was self ticketed.

[01:07:05] I showed up with a case of the love and root beer. I showed up with a case of that. So I, you know, I look at things like that and I'm like, wow, I want to do this. So I'll say to work at team, let me handle this one. But I think that we're really good about that. Right. We take it very serious. No. So you can do our, you know, through our website and there's links to everything Instagram, whatever you could reach out to us and you're going to get a response.

[01:07:30] But if you, the websites to me are always the best because they have, they have the most information and they're linked. So you can go from one to the other. And it, but it talks about all our products. It talks about our history. It talks about how things are made. What's important to us. So there's a lot out there and, or just Google us.

[01:07:46] I mean, we're going to pop up and you're going to, there's a lot of information out there.

[01:07:52] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah. There really is. And, and, and I'll just say it this way and they're really, they're just tasty and good. I know. I sound like I'm a commercial [01:08:00] for you all, but I'm not an affiliate. I just, I've been drinking reads for a long time and I love that.

[01:08:05] We love it.

[01:08:06] Norm Snyder: That's what we love to hear. We love it.

[01:08:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's awesome. Well, norm I'm so grateful that you took the time to join me on the show. I have just one last question that I ask everybody who comes on the show. And it's a strange little question, but I find that it yields some fascinating answers. And the question is this.

[01:08:25] If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?

[01:08:35] Norm Snyder: What would I say, boy? You know, I've got to find a way to say that. Well, first of all, I, I guess I would go back to the whole, our whole campaign here is that, you know, reads is real right. And I can't emphasize it enough that, you know, we, there [01:09:00] is a difference between us and other products. There really is how we, what ingredients we use and how we make.

[01:09:07] And I love that. You know, real is always better. I think I would write that real is always better, but I guess I'd have to say reads. I mean, that, that's the me, it's like look, I, one of my hobbies is cooking. When you use real fresh ingredients, you can taste the difference and it doesn't have to be black.

[01:09:27] It could be the simplest thing, right. To go out in your garden and grab some fresh herbs. And that's, and you know, how I cook as I think reads is it's like real is always better. And we use real ingredients. We use the finest and it, and it, and how we make everything. So I would go with our Kent and our current campaign, which is really reflects who we've been from day one and who will continue to be real as always.

[01:09:57] And that's what I would write. And obviously I'd have to write [01:10:00] reads and virtual. So, because

[01:10:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: it's a very big part of the sky, the plane has the notsell.

[01:10:07] Norm Snyder: I have the reads of Virgil's logo come after that, but I mean, that's who really we are. And it's pretty simple because we were sitting around talking about it and it's like, you know, that's, you know, it's, it's funny.

[01:10:22] Well, I won't get into that. It was a movie I saw online that

[01:10:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love. I'm a big movie file. So go for it.

[01:10:27] Norm Snyder: Almost famous, which is now 20 years old, great movie, which is one of my favorite movies. And they get caught in a Russel and was the guitars for the band Stillwater and the, the enemy, you know, the reporter there.

[01:10:43] Well, who was, was portraying Cameron. And they, you know, they, there, they have, the ban is a fight over the t-shirt. They go walking out, the kid still needs to interview this Volkswagen mini bus pops up and says, Hey man, aren't you Russell from Stillwater. And he says, yeah, on my better days, [01:11:00] he goes, well, my buddy's having a party.

[01:11:02] And you know, we're real Topeka people. And you know, the whole, you know, they give him something and he's drinking the whole night he's gone. And this is real is flashing the lights on. This is real you're real. And I just, that, that sticks in my mind about being real. And I'm like, but when we were talking about it, I just felt like we're real.

[01:11:21] That's who we are real ginger real judge, not fake and all the other stuff. So I think that's what I would say real is always better. And, and probably, and we're real, Virgil's reads. And that's, that's, you know, it's that simple, but it's that powerful at the same time. And I think obviously being a supertaster, you could pick that up.

[01:11:43] You know, it, it does, it does make a difference. Sure,

[01:11:47] Izolda Trakhtenberg: sure. No, it does. It does. Absolutely. It does. And, and that's one of the reasons that, that my husband buys me, he goes, I get cravings and he goes out any buys me. He's a good [01:12:00] man. He's a keeper. Right? Once again, norm, thank you so much for joining me.

[01:12:04] I appreciate it. And I'm really grateful and I will toast you the next time I have a bottle of

[01:12:13] Norm Snyder: this has been a lot of fun. It's my pleasure. I mean, I could tell, you said eight hours. I could, I could be here for eight hours. This is my favorite topic to talk about. I mean, obviously I love what I do. I love the product, so not only am I the CEO, I'm probably the number one fan and a big consumer, but it's a fun job.

[01:12:30] And you know, I, I was passed the mantle. I didn't create it. And I tip my hat to the guy that did. And the folks that brought up this far. It's an honor and privilege to be at the helm and. I have fun every day.

[01:12:43] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's amazing. And I love that you said that loving what you do, getting to that point where you really, really are a big fan of what you do is it's, it's aspirational.

[01:12:54] It's something that we can all aspire to, to just to just get to play and have fun while at [01:13:00] the same time creating something that is so, so beneficial to so many norm. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This is, oh my pleasure. This is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. I'm super grateful.

[01:13:14] You were here. If you're liking what you're hearing, first of all, you need to go get yourself a bottle of reeds by four. They come into four packs and, and drink, drink a bottle of Reed's toast, norm Snyder and his team at reeds and at Virgil's. If you're liking what you hear again, leave a review of the show.

[01:13:33] I would love to hear from you any comments or ideas that you have, I'm all ears until next time. Again, this is Izolda. Trakhtenberg reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[01:13:50] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new, and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate [01:14:00] it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[01:14:08] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.

 

* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I’ll get a small commission. And please remember, I’ll never recommend a product or service I don’t absolutely love!

 

Gene Baur, Co-Founder of Farm Sanctuary and Bestselling Author

Gene Baur on the Animal Rights Movement, Big Agriculture, and Critical Thinking

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset
If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

Gene Baur has been hailed as “the conscience of the food movement” by Time magazine. Since the mid-1980s, he has traveled extensively, campaigning to raise awareness about the abuses of industrialized factory farming and our system of cheap food production.

A pioneer in the field of undercover investigations and farm animal rescue, Gene has visited hundreds of farms, stockyards, and slaughterhouses, documenting the deplorable conditions, and his rescue work inspired an international farm sanctuary movement.

He played a key role in the first-ever cruelty conviction at a U.S. stockyard and enacting the first U.S. laws to prohibit cruel farming systems.

Gene has published two bestsellers, Farm Sanctuary: Changing Hearts and Minds About Animals and Food (Simon and Schuster, 2008) and Living the Farm Sanctuary Life (Rodale, 2015), which he co-authored with Forks Over Knives author Gene Stone. Through his ongoing writing, activism, and speaking engagements, Gene continues working to expose the abuses of factory farming and to advocate for a just and sustainable plant-based food system.

Connect with Gene

https://www.farmsanctuary.org/

https://www.instagram.com/genebaur/

https://www.instagram.com/farmsanctuary/

Other links

https://www.localharvest.org/csa/

 

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Gene Baur: A lot of the information we receive is more marketing than accurate descriptions of reality. And so I think just the first thing is to be discerning and to recognize that just because we read something doesn't necessarily mean we should believe it.

[00:00:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM, brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:40] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset to check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let's get to the show.[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Yes.

[00:01:04] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm your host and I'm thrilled. You're here and I'm so honored to have this week's guest. I've got to tell you about this gentlemen. I'm so I'm a little nervous. I'll be. Yeah. But here we go. So gene Bauer has been hailed as the conscience of the food movement by time magazine, since the mid 1980s, he's traveled extensively campaigning to raise awareness about the abuses of industrialized factory farming and our system of cheap food production.

[00:01:33] And you know, how close to my heart that is a pioneer in the field of undercover investigations and farmers. Eugene has visited hundreds of farms, stockyards and slaughterhouses documenting the deplorable conditions and his rescue work inspired an international farm sanctuary movement. He played a key role in the first ever cruelty conviction at a us stock yard and enacting the first us laws to prohibit cruel farming systems.

[00:01:57] Yes, Gina's published two [00:02:00] bestseller. Farm sanctuary, changing hearts and minds about animals and food. It's by Simon and Schuster and living the farm sanctuary life in 2015, which he co-authored with forks over knives, author, Jean Stone, through his ongoing writing activism and speaking engagements. Jean continues working to expose the abuses of factory farming and to advocate for adjust and sustainable plant-based food system.

[00:02:23] Again. Yes, Jean I'm so grateful and honored that you're here. Thank you so much for being.

[00:02:28] Gene Baur: Oh, thank you. It's old. It's great to be with you. And I, and I love talking about these issues, so I'm very, very much looking forward to this.

[00:02:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I, I have so many questions, but I really want to start at the beginning.

[00:02:40] What, what did it for you? You know, there's, there's a moment at which you decide the kind of person you're going to be and who you're going to stand up for. What was it for you that made you think to yourself? You know what? I'm going to do this. This is going to become my life.

[00:02:55] Gene Baur: You know, it, it, there was really never any one moment.

[00:02:58] It was a [00:03:00] series of moments. And I think the initial thinking was, I just don't want to cause unnecessary harm in the world. And it started actually even before farm sanctuary, you know, I was born in 1962, so I grew up with Vietnam on television. I grew up during the cold war about all these worries and stories about, you know, The violence, the violence in the world just bothered me and I didn't want to be part of it.

[00:03:23] So as I learned about the food system, I came to recognize the enormous violence there and you know, in high school for a short time, I stopped eating animals. When, when I had come home once and my mother had made a chicken dinner and I saw the light, the bird, you know, full legs and wings attached on his or her back on the plate.

[00:03:45] And that turned me off from eating meat for a while. But that, that vision kind of faded over time. Then I got back to the old habit of eating animals. And then in 1985, I traveled around the country. I started spending time with activists, learning more about [00:04:00] factory farming and recognizing it was possible to live with.

[00:04:03] Killing and eating other animals and that, and I went vegan. And then in 1986, you know, I felt that people just are unaware of what is happening in the food system. And people are unwittingly supporting violence and abuse every day. And you know, our original thinking was that if we could. Document and expose what was happening and show people they would decide not to eat out.

[00:04:26] So that was kind of the simple thing. And this is in 1980. And so we started going to farms and stock yards in slaughterhouses to document conditions. And we would find living animals thrown in trash cans or on piles of dead animals. So we started rescuing them and that's how the sanctuaries began. But at the time we didn't really have.

[00:04:45] Like a five-year vision or a 10 year vision. It was just a series of events. You know, like finding Hilda, for example, a sheep could have been left on a pile of dead animals that then led us to recognize how Hilda and other [00:05:00] farm animals could become ambassadors, because people wanted to hear her story.

[00:05:03] We wanted to hear about where she came from. And then we could tell that story and educate people about the abuses of animal agriculture. And so it's been a whole process. You know, and, and that process continues. When we started, there were no other farm sanctuaries. So we were the first and there are now hundreds around the world, which is great, but we also, I think, need to critically evaluate how can these sanctuaries have the biggest impact possible.

[00:05:29] And ultimately, you know, we said this in the early days, and I'll say it again today is ideally we would love to put ourselves out of business. You know, it would be. If there was no need for sanctuaries, right. But, but there is at this time because billions of farm animals are exploited and treated horribly and we need to speak out against that.

[00:05:50] We need to model different kinds of relationships with that. Yeah. As friends, not food, which, which I think is one of the key messages of farm sanctuary is [00:06:00] that these animals deserve respect. They deserve to be treated with kindness and doing so as good for the animals. And it's also good for us. So, so, you know, it's an ongoing evolution.

[00:06:11] And in addition to trying to inspire individual choices we are recently. Re-engaging in efforts to change the food system, which I think can have significant.

[00:06:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking a second to take it all in. Wow. Okay. So I, first of all, yes. And thank you. That's actually that recognition of what I was eating of, what I was putting in my mouth is what made me go vegan many years ago and something that I'm hearing you say, and I love that you're hearing that you're saying it this way is.

[00:06:48] You're not talking about eating meat, you're talking about eating animals, even that I don't know if it's a conscious choice on your part, but even that is an awareness raiser. So I'm wondering [00:07:00] when you do that, when you speak to people, when you're doing not, let's talk about the direct action later, because I'll get so angry, I'll have to run out of the room and scream for a minute.

[00:07:09] But when you're speaking to people and you are trying to open hearts and. How conscious are you of your mindset of what you are trying to educate them on?

[00:07:25] Gene Baur: You know, it, it really depends on the particular venue and, you know, here, we're just sort of talking like friends, you know? And so when I say animals, Honestly, I wasn't even conscious of that.

[00:07:36] I was just expressing, you know, the humans are eating other animals and it's something that we need to critically evaluate. Right. But you know, when I've done media, I will sometimes also talk about eating animals. And I think that puts it in very stark terms because people don't think about the animals.

[00:07:54] And so I think it's a habit I've somewhat gotten into. Being particularly [00:08:00] conscious of it, at least at this point over the years, it has been something that, you know, I've thought a lot about and how do we best reach people? How do we best connect with people? How do we build bridges of understanding instead of putting up walls that cause people to say, don't tell me I don't want it.

[00:08:17] Right. And I think this is one of the things actually that sanctuaries do. And it would tie into the idea of talking about eating animals or not eating animals is that at the sanctuary is, are clearly animals, individuals, cows, pigs, chickens. They're not that different than cats or dogs or even humans.

[00:08:37] And so the sanctuary world. Yeah. Affords us the opportunity to talk about animals as individuals in a fairly robust and impactful way, and that then can be applied to the food system and the lives that animals and humans experience at sanctuaries are very different [00:09:00] than those that are experienced in the food system.

[00:09:03] And at the sanctuary. The animals are our friends. We interact with them in positive ways. There has been research done to show that when we interact with our dogs or other animals in positive ways, like petting our dog, for example, it helps to lower our stress levels, lower our breath, blood pressure.

[00:09:21] It's good for us. And it's good for the animals. And I would say the same thing about sanctuaries is that these are a, win-win when good for us. Good for other animals. Whereas you compare that to the factory farming system. And I sometimes ask people to consider what it would be like to work in a slaughterhouse.

[00:09:40] You know, this is something that is obviously horrible for other animals, but I would also. Suggested it is bad for people and it causes us to lose our humanity and our empathy. So, so the factory farming system is bad for everybody involved, I believe. And I think in the vegan animal rights [00:10:00] movement, there has been a recent sort of evolution towards looking at the system more holistically.

[00:10:06] Looking at, in some cases, people who are participating in these violent acts as cogs in a wheel and have in many cases, sort of disempowered individuals without agency who are in some ways, even acting outside of their own interests outside of their own values and, and humanity and, you know, figuring out systemic.

[00:10:28] Yeah. How do we replace our current violent extractive system with one that is based more on mutuality. One that is good for us. Good for other animals. Good for the earth. Because if you step back and think about it, you know, the way we grow food and consume in this country today, we're eating food that is making us sick.

[00:10:50] It's been estimated. We could save 70% on health care. By shifting to a whole foods, plant-based diet 70%. We could prevent [00:11:00] millions of premature deaths every year. We could also save enormous amounts of land and biodiversity and ecosystems by shifting away from animal agriculture to plant based in the S.

[00:11:13] 10 times more land is used for animal agriculture versus plant-based. And then of course, animals who are not being exploited and killed also do better when we're not eating them. So this is a win-win across the board. And I think right now we're at a position, especially with concerns about the climate crisis and the loss of biodiversity on the planet that we have very compelling reasons to argue for a plant-based foods.

[00:11:40] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, absolutely. And for sure, it's interesting to me what you said about the people. It's almost like in order to be able to do that horrible job, they have to make themselves inner to the violence they're doing every single second. That must absolutely. Change [00:12:00] them on some fundamental levels. And yet the notion of going macro with it, like you were talking about just a second ago of changing the food system itself.

[00:12:10] Yes. It's good for the environment. Yes, it's, it's obviously better for, for the animals. If we're not. Exploiting them and killing them and eating them. But the question becomes for me, how, how do we, is it, is it lobbying efforts in, in government? What, what do we need to do? What do you, what are you thinking of doing and what do you think the average person can do?

[00:12:33] To make inroads to making those changes.

[00:12:37] Gene Baur: Yeah. Yeah, no, it is a big question and it is a multi valence to response. I think that we need to make individual changes in terms of how we eat so that we are not subsidizing this system by buying factory farm to animal products. Because when we buy those products, we're in a sense voting with our [00:13:00] dollars to support those systems.

[00:13:02] But we also have a government that is supporting the factory farming industry to the tune of billions of dollars every year. So one of the first things I think we need to focus on. Is taking the government support away from growing feed crops. For example, you know, corn and soy that are grown in the U S are used largely to feed farm animals.

[00:13:26] And those crops are heavily subsidized in a variety of ways. So I think we need to stop supporting and enabling this harmful and inherently inefficient. So that's one of the first things is to stop subsidizing irresponsible practices. Also, our government has done a lot to promote the consumption of animal products, including through the school lunch program, where for decades, a school kids have been given a glass of cow's milk as part of supposed nutrition.

[00:13:58] But really, yeah. A [00:14:00] large part marketing and promotions. So I think our government needs to stop promoting animal foods the way it has been doing. And so there's going to be, I think, systemic. Policy matters. There's going to be personal matters. And I think there's going to be a business element to this where, you know, today we are seeing enormous investments in plant-based meats and in companies that are developing alternatives to, to meat from.

[00:14:27] Living feeling animals. And I think those are very positive steps. So business is gonna play a role. Individual choice is going to play a role. And the government also, I think, is going to play a very important role. And part of it is stopping, you know, enabling our current system and instead enabling an alternative and the alternative could look a variety.

[00:14:50] And I sort of see kind of bi-modal food production in the future. We sorta see it today to where you. Large scale mass [00:15:00] production and that's the dominant system. So I think in order to shift that it's really good that you have companies like beyond meat, impossible, and others who are looking to slot in a plant-based burger instead of a meat burger.

[00:15:16] But in addition to that, I think there's going to be a more grassroots. It's a ground up push to even grow one's own food. Yeah. A robust urban farming movement. Now there's a food, not lawns movement now. And we can grow a lot more food than we sometimes believe by local urban agriculture. So I think there's a lot of growth in that space as well.

[00:15:39] So there are good signs and these sorts of shifts should also be supported by government policies.

[00:15:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: You're singing my song. I love it. So there, there are so many things here that as a, as a former NASA staffer, I, I think about in terms of [00:16:00] how much of our land is being used for agriculture and is that land being used for the best form of agriculture. So what you said about plants like corn and soy that are mostly being grown to feed them.

[00:16:15] Animal agriculture practices, I guess, is the best way to put it. How, how would they transfer if, if the government went okay, let's do this. Let's transfer over from corn and soy to more, plant-based that, that, that is designed to feed people, not animals. I'll put it that way because that's the best language I have in the moment.

[00:16:37] How would we make that shift? How would we get farmer buy-in to be able to do that?

[00:16:43] Gene Baur: Yeah, well, a lot of this crop land is now owned by banks and financial institutions. So the reason that they have invested here is because it's profitable. So if we had government programs, for example, that did not incentivize.

[00:16:59] Crop [00:17:00] land for feed, but instead incentivized crop land for food that would do a lot to shift acres that are growing corn and soy to feed animals into peas or corn or soy or other crops people. But, but one of the other sort of fundamentals. Issues we have with animal agriculture is that it requires enormous amounts of land, enormous amounts of resources which for a small number of people can be very profitable because if you're selling corn and soy and you have crop insurance and you're basically guaranteed a profit you keep doing it.

[00:17:40] And that's kind of, what's gotten us to where we are today and it's been driven by this belief and this bias. That animal foods are somehow preferable to plant based foods. So that's a bias that has driven agriculture, and it's been supported by the increasing profits that, you know, crop producers and [00:18:00] feed producers and the machinery of agriculture has benefited from.

[00:18:04] And this also includes the pesticide companies, the petrochemical industries and, and, and so it's a massive industry. It's a massive company. But removing the, the federal and other subsidies that make crop production for animal feed profitable. And instead just doing that actually would have a big impact.

[00:18:27] And, and, and another part of this has to do with exports because, you know, Grow all these crops and what cannot be sold in the U S is an export. And so you also have international dimensions to this. So it's, it's a big, big machine and it has to be addressed over time in various ways, but.

[00:18:46] Stopping the funding and then enabling of our current system is, is huge. And and if that happened, I think you would see a natural shift towards growing crops to feed people instead of [00:19:00] growing feed for farm animals. But it's going to require a shift because, you know, instead of, you know, A million acres, you could now use maybe a hundred thousand acres to feed as many people, which means you have all that extra land that could potentially be rewilding or used for other more healthy purposes.

[00:19:20] But what it means is that whoever's now pro. From all that extra land would, would, would have to have a different business model. And so there's a lot tied up in this, but the feed side is enormous and that's an important place, I think, for us to try to work on policies, to discourage this, this ongoing irresponsible and frankly, inefficient practice.

[00:19:44] It's only profitable because of government programs.

[00:19:47] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah. And that's the thing that I'm wondering about with, with government subsidies. For agriculture in that way, I keep coming back to lobbying Congress. I keep coming back to changing the minds of [00:20:00] people who represent South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, some of the.

[00:20:07] Big farming states that are designed to th their, their practices are designed to keep this machine going. And so I keep coming back to which way do you address the problem? Do you address, do you address it as, as lobbying Congress? Do you address it grassroots with the, with the farmers or the banks? How, how do we innovate away from the current practice?

[00:20:30] If there's so much it's like a locomotive there's so much force going in that particular direct.

[00:20:37] Gene Baur: Yes. Yes. I think you do all of that. And I think from the standpoint of a lobbying, you know, at this point, you know, the vegan perspective, the Amorites perspective is very much a minority point of view.

[00:20:50] And we're up against very entrenched, very embedded, very powerful agricultural interests who not [00:21:00] only have. Lots of money and lobbyists, but members of the agriculture committee and key members of Congress representing agricultural states have disproportionate power to maintain the status quo because it is profitable.

[00:21:16] After spending time in Congress, then they go work at an agribusiness company and they come back and forth. You know, the USDA secretary today, Tom bill sack. And he was the secretary under Obama and he was better than Sonny Perdue who was under Trump. But when Villsac left the USDA in 2016, He went to work with the us dairy export council and was working to promote dairy exports around the world.

[00:21:44] And then when Biden was elected, he came back and he's now the USDA secretary again. So that gives you an idea of the kind of entrenched industry interests throughout government. And there are cultural biases. Towards this idea that drinking cow's milk is [00:22:00] somehow beneficial and healthy. So that's a belief system, but I think we need to challenge you at the government level, but also culturally throughout the country and the world.

[00:22:10] And, and then we need to be working on the machinery of the system. So it's a cultural thing and it's a structural thing. And I think it is important to lobby but we need to be realistic about what we're up to. And one of the issues that really concerns me right now. And it's one that I'm not terribly optimistic, we'll be able to, to, to remedy from a policy standpoint, although we're going to keep fighting away and raising awareness and trying to battle these kinds of subsidies, but you know, the concern about the climate crisis what agribusiness is very good at doing is greenwashing and parlay.

[00:22:49] Concerned about the environment to benefit their own interests. And they're doing that right now with methane digesters and with, you know, this idea that if you take [00:23:00] these manure, lagoons and factory farms, which again, these places can find. Thousands of animals. They produce enormous amounts of waste, too much waste for the land to absorb.

[00:23:09] So putting these cesspools and in a sense of greenhouse gases. So the solution industry has, and this is now tied to the oil industry as well is to take that waste and turn it into methane, which is entered this methane and you digest it and you turn it into energy and on the surface, that sounds good.

[00:23:29] But when you step back, What these methane digesters ultimately do is they further entrench industrial animal agriculture by tying it now to the industry grid or to the energy grid. And if you look at the amount of greenhouse gases coming from animal agriculture, most of it like about half of it comes from the feed industry, not from the manure, which is about 10% of it.

[00:23:55] So if you really wanted to deal with the greenhouse. Gases and the climate [00:24:00] crisis, you would not be constructing maneuver lagoon or rock methane digesters at these factory farms. But that is what the government is currently supporting. And, and it's it's, so it's a financial misstep and it's also a greenwash cause now these industries can talk about how they're ecologically aware when in fact what they're doing is very harmful still.

[00:24:21] So. Again, that's an example of how our entrenched system is working, where certain interests are able to actually parlay a genuine concern. To a policy that actually enables irresponsible practices to continue. And so that's what we're up against. So we just need to be calling this stuff out and encouraging consumers to make changes supporting businesses that are making changes.

[00:24:50] I think we do need to lobby but we also need to do a lot more, right.

[00:24:58] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Taking all of that in. Wow. [00:25:00] Yeah. It's interesting. You know what you said about the land being able to take in these manure lagoons? I worked when I was at NASA, I worked in, in soil science and looking at the soil itself. The soil can do a lot as far as carbon sequestration and looking at this notion of filtration, but it certainly can't do as much.

[00:25:24] Manure, you know, as much manure as is produced. So if we don't try to do it that way, if we, or if that's one arm. The grassroots way of doing things. If I'm a, if I'm a person living in the USA and I want to build awareness is there. And I have no idea if there is, and maybe we should create one. Is there any kind of a database or a website where I can go to start learning about some of this to start seeing companies that are practicing this greenwashing as you put [00:26:00] it, is there anywhere where we can get better educated on this?

[00:26:04] Gene Baur: Yeah, that's a really good question because a lot of the information we receive is more marketing than accurate descriptions of reality. And so I think just the first thing is to be discerning and to recognize that just because we read something doesn't necessarily mean we should believe it. I think a lot of the important progress is going to happen at the local level.

[00:26:28] And the reason I say that is because when you're. In a local area, you see what is happening and it's harder to be misled. You know, the further removed you are from the source of your food. The easier it is for those that are marketing that food to tell you stories that may not be accurate. So I think, you know, I've been very encouraged by what I've seen in recent years.

[00:26:50] And I, you know, before the Corona virus pandemic, I did a fair bit of traveling and I would visit urban. And see what is happening in [00:27:00] communities. And I have been very inspired and impressed by, by the work of groups like Harlem grown in New York or green Bronx machine in New York, you know, both that are enabling the youth to learn how to grow their own food.

[00:27:14] Ron Finley in Los Angeles is doing the same thing. You have a grow where you are an urban farm in Atlanta, eco suburbia, a veganic urban farm in Mesa, Arizona. So you have all these like local farming operations that are producing healthy food in sustainable plant-based ways. And also building soil w and, and, and creating a relationship of mutuality with them.

[00:27:39] Instead of one of extraction, you know, because when we look at the factory farming system, you know, you have a lot of corn, for instance, that's grown in the Midwest. So there's all these petrochemical fertilizers that are added to get that crop to grow. And then that corn is transported. Sometimes it's used in Iowa, but sometimes, you know, in North Carolina, for [00:28:00] example, to feed pigs.

[00:28:01] So you have all these nutrients, all this corn, all this material. It's now being dumped in North Carolina, fed through pigs and you have all this maneuver. So there's this massive imbalance. Whereas if you have, you know, local food produced in a responsible way for a local market you know, it's just more connected.

[00:28:20] The food is fresher. The food is healthier and people know what they're getting. So I would encourage people to join a local CSA co what's a community supported agriculture program. And the nice thing about these structures is that consumers. Invest in the program with the farmer. So at the beginning of the growing season, the farmer has the capital.

[00:28:41] They need to get seeds and whatever else to begin to plant and to grow. And over the course of the growing season, the farmer and the consumer share in whether it's been a bumper crop or not a very successful crop. And the consumer understands buying in [00:29:00] that, you know, You know, a certain amount of food, it might be more, it might be a little less depending on how the season goes.

[00:29:05] So that's a way to spread out risk for farmers and to share that with consumers and also for consumers to get closer to the production system and understand farming more. So growing food locally is huge. There's also, I think, an opportunity to transition lawns. So for people who live in the suburbs or who have homes with gardens or with, with lawns, You know, how about a whole different industry, right?

[00:29:31] Growing produce instead of just instead of a gardener coming and mowing the lawn and, you know, putting down fertilizer in some cases what if the gardener actually became a gardener and now this could be the homeowner, or it could be a service where instead of just mowing the lawn. They're growing produce.

[00:29:49] So every week there's a box of, you know, fruits or vegetables or whatever that could then potentially be sold locally or bartered or traded with other neighbors. [00:30:00] So, so that's another, I think food, not lawns movement that could be very positive locally. And then I think at the local level, you can work on maybe city zoning policies to make it easier to grow, produce in your neighborhoods and, and maybe policies around why.

[00:30:18] Maybe tax incentives or tax breaks for people who are growing food instead of having a lot. So those are some concrete policy, examples of ways to enable more of this type of activity in various communities. So, so those are just some thoughts, but I think local is going to be huge. I think we do need to work on federal policies.

[00:30:40] But doing that. I think it's going to take some time for us to develop the kind of support base to be able to take on animal agriculture and, and another, you know, speaking to innovation. One of the things that I think is happening, you know, in recent years. And it's very positive is that the vegan movement, the animal rights movement [00:31:00] is coming to recognize more common ground with worker movements, with small farmers, with environmentalist's, with health advocates, and you put all these together and you find common ground.

[00:31:13] And, you know, as a vegan, I'd love it to be all vegan and it might not be all vegan. Less meat. You know, so, so finding common ground with diverse interests and then promoting certain policies at the federal level, we might have some success.

[00:31:34] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I really hope so.

[00:31:37] Gene Baur: No. And then methane digesters is a good example of that, right? Where you have small farmers, you know, you know, whether they're vegan or whether they're raising a small number of animals, they would also begins to manure lagoons. So that's one of those examples where we might not agree on everything, but we can agree that these methane digesters should not be allowed.

[00:31:57] We could potentially agree on certain crop [00:32:00] insurance. Federal subsidies, we could potentially agree on consolidation, you know, cause one of the things that's happened also is. Fewer and fewer larger farms producing food. So I think we need a more diversified food system. So those are the kinds of policy areas where I think we might have some opportunities at the federal level working with a broader coalition of aligned interest.

[00:32:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That would be such an incredible feat and obviously an important one. That notion though of changing changing mindsets of, of people aligning themselves with, with other, with organizations, aligning themselves with other organizations who are working. At on parallel tracks, maybe if not the same track, there is no centralized body that says, Hey, let's do this together.

[00:32:53] There is no movement, one movement that, that does that. And so it makes me, it makes me wonder [00:33:00] how do we broaden the minds of people who again, want to be involved who want to align themselves with these various movements, but don't know how to reconcile. The differences, like you said, for example, now it might not all be vegan.

[00:33:15] And I know, I know lots of vegans are like, if you're not vegan, you're not worthwhile. And that, that is concerning to me because it you're cutting off your nose to spite your face at some point. So how, how would you encourage people to, to come together in those kinds of situations where they have what they might consider to be insurmountable?

[00:33:39] Gene Baur: Yeah, no, I think it's important to try to find common ground and the build and then build from there. So in the case of a small, a farmer who is raising animals for slaughter, for example, now we would disagree. On the idea of killing animals for food. So that's obvious. And so we need to [00:34:00] accept that, but instead of focusing on that and, and creating more division around that particular problem, we can focus on the idea of local food.

[00:34:11] We can focus in on the idea of. You know, no more subsidies for big ag. We can folk, we should find common ground and focus on that and build from there. And then my belief is that when you engage with people who may actually have a different perspective there's an opportunity for learning and and this can go both ways.

[00:34:32] There are certain, yeah. Experiences different people have, and we can learn a lot from each other when we pay attention and we don't have to agree on everything, but if you can find common ground and build from there, I think that's the most important thing. Instead of looking at the disagreement.

[00:34:47] Yeah. And continuing to pound on that. And in the vegan world, sometimes we tend to do that. And I don't think that it's necessarily helped. I understand the idea of holding onto a certain [00:35:00] ideal and I hold onto the ideal, but, you know, I can't control it. I can only control myself and I can try to encourage others and nudge others, but people, you know, have to make their own choices at the end of the day.

[00:35:13] And if we can work with folks with aligned interests and, and we have an awful lot of opportunity. When we look at the factory farming industry and the harm, it causes to small farmers, to consumers, to rural communities, to urban communities to our health to animals, to the earth. When we look at all the harm, this industry causes indigenous populations, you know, around the world.

[00:35:37] So there's so many ways that we can find common ground. When we look at the food system and specifically the factory farming. And so I think focusing there and then preventing. Again, government policies and subsidies that enable that abusive industry. So that to me is a very good starting point. And, and then once we [00:36:00] hopefully are able to stop subsidizing, irresponsible, unjust, inhumane animal, agricultural practices, we can then start looking at ways to reinvest that government money.

[00:36:13] And, you know, some organizations like ours would only want to support, find funding plant-based alternatives. So that's where we would go a little further than some of these other allies, you know, who might be against the factory farming industry, but would still be for, you know, eating animal products, maybe fewer animal products.

[00:36:33] So I think that's where the common ground is with those groups and individuals that we might not agree completely on. Less animal products is I think a very good comment.

[00:36:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, this friend is, she works with farmers and she, and I have to keep focusing on that common ground instead of on, on where we diverge. Ironically, she's the one who told me what happens to dairy cows in wa and that's when I went vegan. So [00:37:00] so this notion of being able to. In some ways agree to disagree is your point is well taken.

[00:37:07] I wonder if, if I could talk to you about this, this other notion, you said something about the protein and the nutrients. From from directly from plants versus from animals. There's, I've always in my head had this notion that there's, that there is a nutrients once removed situation happening. When you, when you try to get nutrients from, from eating an animal, I don't know what your, what your education level is on this, but could you talk a little bit about that notion that, that, that.

[00:37:39] Primary nutrients from plants versus what nutrients we might be getting from animals, especially animals. Who've, who've been factory farmed.

[00:37:49] Gene Baur: Yeah. You know, I don't have a whole lot of kind of academic knowledge in that space. You know, what I do know is I've been a vegan since 1985. I'm almost 60 years old now and [00:38:00] I, I get everything I need nutritionally from eating plants and no animals.

[00:38:04] And I do know that. Eating animal products. The way we are in this country is causing enormous health problems. I know one of the primary nutrients we do not get in in this country is fiber and animal products have no fiber, whereas plant foods, whole plant foods. Full of fiber. So there there's some basic things I know in terms of the nutrients directly from plants.

[00:38:29] I think it makes sense just from an efficiency standpoint, you know, to eat the plant directly from the earth instead of taking the plant and feeding it to an animal and then eating the animal. And I have also heard that, you know, the animals get their nutrients from the plant. So might as well go right to the plants.

[00:38:46] So, so that all makes sense to me, although I'm not again, deeply knowledgeable about that nutritional question. But what I do know is I've been a vegan a long time and it works, and I know some of the best athletes in [00:39:00] the world have performed at their best eating a plant-based diet and people like Carl Lewis, for example, You know, did his best times as a vegan.

[00:39:10] So, you know, we can perform at a very high level eating plants instead of here.

[00:39:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, I love that documentary. I think it's called agents of change about ventures. Game-changers yes. Game-changers. I always get the two confused game-changers about, about the peak performing athletes who are all vegan plant-based I thought that, you know, if that's not going to inspire you to think about health as a vegan, I'm not sure will.

[00:39:36] What will so I have just I know you, you have to go and I so appreciate you taking the time. I have just a couple of other questions. Can you, can you be a futurist for a second? And talk to me about your vision for 2040. What, what do you see? How do you see us doing, as you can talk about the climate crisis about.

[00:39:57] You know, animal agriculture, [00:40:00] plant-based movement, veganism, anything. Where do you see us as a society and as a planet 20 years?

[00:40:07] Gene Baur: Oh gosh. It's really hard to know exactly. But what I'd say is that it, it appears to me and it feels to me like there's a convergence of it. Yeah. You know, whether it's the ethical treatment of other animals, whether it's the destruction of the, by the, the ecosystems and the earth and, you know, the climate crisis whether it's our own personal health, whether it's our own emotional health and community health, you know, all of these things can be pinned to the factory farming industry, which is a contributor to them.

[00:40:36] And the solutions are in eating healthier. A plant-based diet that is produced in a more sustainable eco-friendly way. So I think, you know, where things currently stand, there's an awful lot of investment in large efforts to replace animal foods in our fast food industry, in our mainstream food system.

[00:40:59] And I think those are [00:41:00] positive. But I also am a very strong proponent of a more grassroots, localized food system where you have. You know, food, not lawns efforts, you have urban agriculture. You have people growing their own food. You have community gardens, you have community supported agriculture.

[00:41:17] So I, I think that a robust grass roots food movement to me is something that really feels good. You could even have like rooftop gardens. You could have vertical farms and in some urban settings, so local food fresh. Plant food produce locally to me is, is great. And so that's the bi-modal system.

[00:41:40] Again, you have this kind of localized versus a more industrialized plant-based options that will replace meat and current in the current machinery. So those are the two kind of. Parallel pushes happening and, and I support them both. Although, you know, as an idealist, I I'm a [00:42:00] bigger fan of the locals.

[00:42:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, absolutely. The thing, the thing that that's always interested me about what you're saying is that you have to want to, right. The, the person who's got a, who lives in Brooklyn, New York has to want to, there's no lawn. I have no lawn. Right. So I have to want to go. To the closest a community garden. And I have to want to work in the soil and I have to want to tend the crops that I'm growing it.

[00:42:28] Even if it's like a 10 foot by 10 foot plot, what would we do? How, how do we encourage people to even begin to think about it? Because I, I grew up in Detroit, even though I wasn't born in the USA, but I grew up in Detroit and the urban farming initiatives there. Blow my mind and, and people are, are really because, and it's because so much has been abandoned there that there are these plots of land doing nothing.

[00:42:53] So people have started doing it. They've started these urban gardening and urban farming initiatives there, [00:43:00] but in a, in a, in a place like Brooklyn, there's not too much. That's abandoned. How do we talk to people in those areas and say, Hey, this is a possibility for you. Where do we need to start

[00:43:11] Gene Baur: with.

[00:43:12] Yeah, no. In places like Brooklyn, where, where land really as it, or is it a premium? It gets a lot tougher, you know, but there is, I think, a growing hunger for green space for open space and opportunities for gardening, even in very small plots even container gardening, like, you know, on the back porch, for example, you can sometimes have a container to grow some herbs if nothing else.

[00:43:35] But you know, In addition to like the physical limitations, which I hear and understand are significant in places like Brooklyn, there are also just, how do you get people to want to do this? Part of it is just by seeing others do it. You know, we are social animals and if we see somebody else doing something.

[00:43:52] You know, there's a good chance we might start doing it. So the more that this happens, you know, like in Detroit, as you were describing, I think the more [00:44:00] it will pick up momentum because I believe that being with the earth, having our hands in the soil is actually healing and it feels really good. So once people start doing that and they recognize how beneficial it is, I think more and more people are going to want to do it.

[00:44:16] And in places like Brooklyn, you know, again, land is very limited. So maybe rooftop. Or one of the possible options public spaces, you know, some parks, you know, might be made available to have some, some gardening space. But I think expanding green spaces and adding food production in some of those could be a solution.

[00:44:37] There are food forests. So, you know, Trees that are producing fruit. For example, in some of these green spaces could be another part of the solution. So it's going to be multi valence. It's not going to be one thing or another. It can be a variety

[00:44:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: of things. I, again, I hope so. I keep saying to your responses, I keep going.

[00:44:55] Yes, I hope so. Yeah. And it's interesting to me, rooftop gardens do a [00:45:00] lot to cool the buildings, so it saves energy. In that way, too. And, and I hope that that keeps going and growing because there is an initiative to have that, to address the urban heat island effect in, in these urban areas. I would love, I, first of all, gene, I know you have to go, but I would love to find out from you and I'm going to put it in the show notes also.

[00:45:20] Where, if someone, if someone wants to follow your work, where would they go to find you? And I'll put the links in the show notes, but I like people learn differently. So if you could say where someone would be able to locate your work and what you're doing, I would love to have that information.

[00:45:36] Gene Baur: Yes, absolutely.

[00:45:37] Well, you know, we have at farm sanctuary, we have a website, farm sanctuary.org. We also have an Instagram account, a Twitter account and a Facebook for farm sanctuary. And then also I have my own Twitter, Instagram and Facebook for Jean Bauer. So people can go to either or both of those to keep in touch with us and to track our work.

[00:45:59] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:46:00] Fabulous. Thank you so much for saying that. And I will put all of that and game-changers. Do engagements have changed? I don't know why game changers and, and csa.org is the community supported agriculture link. I'll put all of that in the show notes so that if you're interested in finding out more about gene Bauer and his work farm sanctuary how to get involved in a CSA, you'll be able to do it from the show notes of the page.

[00:46:23] Jean I'm. So. So grateful that you took the time to be here. I really appreciate it. I have just one last question and it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some profound answers. And the question is this. If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?

[00:46:44] Gene Baur: Wow. I mean, probably kindness. I think kindness is one of those really important kind of unifying values. I don't think anybody says it's bad to be kind. I mean, they might, they might say, oh, you're being idealistic or you're [00:47:00] not being realistic for instance, but nobody, I think disagrees with the aspiration of kindness.

[00:47:06] So kindness matters. Be kind. I think that is one of the most important things for us to aspire.

[00:47:13] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Fabulous. I love it. I love it, Jean, once again. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you taking the.

[00:47:20] Gene Baur: Absolutely. Thank you so much as all the great talking with you.

[00:47:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: This is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast.

[00:47:26] If you've enjoyed this episode, and I know you have share it out, tell your friends this is important work, gene Bauer and the farm sanctuary movement. They're doing incredible work on behalf of the whole place. All the animals, including us. I hope that you've enjoyed the episode and this is me reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love.

[00:47:50] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and [00:48:00] rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[00:48:08] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2020. As always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.

 

* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I’ll get a small commission. And please remember, I’ll never recommend a product or service I don’t absolutely love!

Wendy Hapgood, Director of the Wild Tomorrow Fund on How They‘re Saving Wildlife

Wendy Hapgood Discusses the Ways the Wild Tomorrow Fund is Innovating how Animals are Saved

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset
If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

Wendy Hapgood is the co-founder and Chief Operating Officer of Wild Tomorrow Fund, a wildlife conservation charity dedicated to saving threatened and endangered wildlife and their habitats.

Wendy believes that biodiversity loss and climate change are the two most critical issues facing our planet today. In 2015 she left Wall Street behind to dedicate her life to the protection of the environment and biodiversity. She completed her Master’s Degree in Sustainability Management at Columbia University's Earth Institute where she studied climate change science and policy, researched the intersection of poverty and rhino poaching, uncovered illegal ivory in New York City, and studied new methods for financing the green economy.

Connect with Wendy

www.wildtomorrowfund.org

Instagram: www.instagram.com/wildtomorrowfund/

Facebook: www.facebook.com/wildtomorrowfund

Twitter: https://twitter.com/wildtomorrow

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Wendy Hapgood: But I feel like when you are really emotionally connected to this project and it was truly an emergency, I think it really pushes you to do what you think is impossible.

[00:00:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I am. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM, brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:36] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word, and now let's get.

[00:00:59] Hey there [00:01:00] and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg, I'm your host, and I'm really happy that you're here. And I'm also thrilled and honored to have this week's guest. And you'll understand why as soon as I tell you a little bit about her, Wendy Hapgood is the co-founder and chief operating officer of wild tomorrow fund wildlife conservation, charity, dedicated to saving, threatened, and endangered wildlife.

[00:01:22] And their habitats. And that last part is a really important part of what Wendy and her group, what they're doing when he believes a biodiversity loss and climate change are the two most critical issues facing our planet. Today in 2015, she left wall street behind to dedicate her life to the protection of the environment and biodiversity.

[00:01:41] She's singing my song. She completed her master's degree in sustainability management at Columbia university's earth Institute, where she studied climate change science and policy research, the intersection of poverty and rhino poaching uncovered illegal ivory in New York city and studied new methods of financing.

[00:01:59] The green [00:02:00] economy. Ah, Wendy, I'm so honored that you're here. Thank you so much for being here. Well, Thank you

[00:02:06] Wendy Hapgood: so much as older for having me. I'm really excited to be on your show. Wow.

[00:02:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I you're, you're you're living my dream life in many ways. It's exactly the kind of thing that I have always wanted to do.

[00:02:18] So I'm so glad that you took it and ran with it and are doing it right. I love you. You left wall street and you, you went, that's it. I'm changing my whole life around and I'm doing this now. I'm going to dedicate my life to saving wildlife and saving protected lands. What sparked that for you? What, what made you go?

[00:02:36] Okay. You know what? I'm making that change. I'm going to totally transform the way I live and I'm going to innovate things on my own terms. Yeah.

[00:02:43] Wendy Hapgood: I mean, it was a really big jump. And I have to say that this feeling grew within me, that sort of, it happened over years where I had the sneaking feeling of, you know, unhappiness or just dissatisfaction with, with life and what I was doing with my life.

[00:02:58] And I was successful [00:03:00] in finance. And I loved, I did like my job and the people I worked with and customers, but there was something really missing for me, which was sense of purpose. You know, I absolutely love animals and I feel like probably a lot of your listeners have pets that you just adore and it really starts there and, you know, hiking and.

[00:03:19] Starting to feel that I needed to do something about what I was seeing around me in terms of environmental destruction and climate change. And you know, people talk about ecological grief, starting to feel really sad about what was happening to the planet and knowing I wasn't helping. I really big moment was I was actually working in Tokyo, Japan, and I was there for the big earthquake, which resulted in a nuclear crisis.

[00:03:46] So being on the ground in Tokyo and living there and worrying about if my boss water was contaminated, which by the way it was and you know, it just, it was such a hosted apocalyptic scenario that I was living and [00:04:00] what really shocked me. How a lot of people weren't that concerned. They, after it went well and people from outside of Japan and friends, weren't, well, no one died, you know, after this nuclear crisis.

[00:04:13] But whereas I couldn't stop thinking about how we poisoned the earth forever and that wasn't being spoken about. And it really was a sort of symbolic moment. And I felt complicit in it as someone living in the city using, you know, that's all the power being generated for that's what the nuclear power was needed for.

[00:04:33] So I felt really complicit in this poisoning of the earth. And I felt very guilty about when I left later that year to, to, to come to New York about not being here. Both people that were, you know, refugees, internal refugees from that crisis and thinking about how we poison the land and, you know, I saw it with my own eyes up Mishima.

[00:04:53] So that really was a huge moment in my life. I was thinking, what can I do? And how can I help. [00:05:00] Being a part of the destruction. Then in New York, I met my now husband, John Stewart, who is the other co-founder of wild tomorrow fund. He was in a similar place in life. He was an advertising executive here in New York.

[00:05:13] It creative director also loved animals and was in a place like me. What next to do in life and actually make a difference and help animals in nature. So that was nice. I don't think I'm not sure I could have done it all on my own. Definitely helps to have a partner and to embark on this big journey together.

[00:05:32] So that's what we did in 2015. And then personally, I felt like I needed a little more background and I love studying. So that's, I went and did my masters at Columbia, which was Columbia university, the earth Institute. Gave me, I felt like a little more confidence and background in, in sustainability and environmental problems and climate change science and all kinds of really fascinating things.

[00:05:55] So that helps me on my journey as well, to feel ready, to really [00:06:00] switch careers and focus a hundred percent on saving the planet.

[00:06:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking that all in. I sometimes take these little pauses cause I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. That's amazing. So, so here you are. You've, you've made the decision and you came out of with your masters. And w I'm I'm so fascinated. What did you do next? How did you, how did you decide, you know, what we're going to buy land in South Africa and what were the steps that you took to make that start happening?

[00:06:35] I imagine the bureaucracy is monumental.

[00:06:38] Wendy Hapgood: Well, again, I think we took it step by step and when John and I started Walton were fun. But we also felt like buying land and saving habitat as much as we knew that that was the really big overarching issue in the same way that climate change kind of hangs over everything.

[00:06:55] Habitat loss also kind of drives so much of the [00:07:00] environmental loss and destruction we see today. But that, that, that would be a huge thing to start with. So when we started well, tomorrow flung, we started in 2015. Really just with small things, we were asking friends, family for $50 to buy boots for Rangers, because what we saw on the ground in kazoo, in a town, South Africa, which is where we're focused.

[00:07:23] Was that government reserves in particular were super under-resourced they're in charge of protecting incredible biodiversity, some of the last big tusks elephants in the world. Really under-resourced trying to fight the rhino poaching crisis and, you know, here's these amazing. People who very dedicated boots on the ground, but they don't have good boots.

[00:07:45] So from New York, we're like, well, what, well, we can, we can help with that. You know, or like really bad, basic things. Like they couldn't go out on patrol if the tires had punctures and of their, you know, for their patrol [00:08:00] vehicles and their budget was didn't allow them to purchase more that month, you know?

[00:08:05] So it was like a week. Fundraise for that. And we can involve people in New York who would love to, you know, it's very direct impact to say, if you give, if you can give us $50 donation, we will personally have our team on the ground, buy those boots and deliver them. So that's how we started. Nice and small step-by-step.

[00:08:27] And it was 2017 when the land kind of happened, which I say was a land emergency where. One of our partners on the ground told us about this piece of land that was up for sale and it had two offers on it from pineapple farmers. And when you know, these farmers want it to extend their existing fields of kind of fools.

[00:08:52] And if you could see a picture of it, it's just. You know that typical monoculture farming that just extends out forever in these [00:09:00] endless rows of, you know, sameness and it's terrible for biodiversity. And you know, this land that was up for sale had, had been farmed, you know, cattle and a little bit of pineapples, but it kind of being left to go wild and it had zebra on it.

[00:09:15] It had, you know, hippos that would come from the river and at nighttime feed on this land and. We went to see it and that was it. You know, our hearts were kind of stuck. We were like, we have to do something. We cannot allow this to happen. What they would do is, is if the pineapple farm was it totally clear?

[00:09:34] It, we mean to tract as a chain, pull out every single tree, run off the wildlife. I mean, turn it into that. Very does it like monoculture of, of pineapple, commercial, industrial agriculture. So we were pretty determined to do that, but you know, imagine it was over a million us dollars, the price tag, and we'd been asking for 50, a hundred dollars donations, but I think those [00:10:00] emergencies make you really step up.

[00:10:01] And we felt that we needed to try and also we know or knew that. There's a lot of wealth in New York city. And there's a lot of people who care deeply and, you know, we just needed, we knew we just needed to meet the right people and tell the story and, and kind of bring them along in this journey. And we also met with the landowner.

[00:10:24] She was an older lady living in the city, near Johannesburg. She didn't live at the farm or anything like that. This land that was her old fence. And we kind of pleaded with her. We said, you know, we're a charity. We don't have a million dollars sitting ready to make this deal happen. Can you give us time?

[00:10:43] You know, this will be your legacy too. So. Thankfully, she agreed. And she gave us five years to save, to raise all the money, to save the land. Actually that deadline's coming up next may. So we, we still have a little way to go. But in the meantime we bought another piece that was at risk, just [00:11:00] down, just nearby.

[00:11:01] So. You know, created this card or vision. You know, in the meantime we established we felt it was extremely important that the land was owned in South Africa, not by a us charity. So we set up a wall tomorrow, fund South Africa. No affiliate. So it's a registered charity in South Africa. So the land is owned locally.

[00:11:21] Yeah, so there were a lot of legal steps and meetings and learn a lot of learning along the way. But I feel like when you're really emotionally connected to this. This project and it was truly an emergency. I think it really pushes you to, to do what you think is impossible. So we're really proud that we were able to save it and then you know, start working on restoring it and rewilding it.

[00:11:48] Really exciting and super hopeful. And I think it transformed us as an organization too. And that's really now our focus. We still help other ranges in the region and we do buy boots for Rangers, [00:12:00] but the major focus now is really saving that land, protecting it, restoring it and rewilding it.

[00:12:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yay. Okay. Wow.

[00:12:10] I wish I had pom-poms or something. So I could be doing a little cheer for, for everything that you just said. I'm you are, you are absolutely seeing my song. I've worked for NASA for over 20 years, doing earth science and environmental education outreach all over the world. So, so hearing from you that, that you, that that is your active.

[00:12:31] Sort of profession that, that, that, that, that, that it's possible that you can have these, make these inroads and have such an impact on a place that probably a lot of people never think about, which, you know, raising that elevating the visibility of, of the need to say. Habitat in places like South Africa is incredible.

[00:12:55] And I, I know people in South Africa who are working to educate [00:13:00] people in South Africa about that importance too. And so I'm wondering a little bit about, like you said, you made, you have this relationship with the owner of that land, which is incredible. What, what other kinds of. Innovative ways. Have you made relationships with people and government people in South Africa to make this, to make these inroads?

[00:13:22] Wendy Hapgood: It's a great question because you know, nothing is ever done alone. It really is teamwork and something that was really important. And just to give a little more background into this, this land is in a biodiversity hotspot. It's one of 32 places around the world. That's recognized for really high level.

[00:13:39] By diversity. So just this massive array of amazing life from insects to furry things, you know so it was really important to save this land is also right next door to a world, heritage wetland, UNESCO, world heritage park. So again, another great reason why this piece of land in particular, in this area, it was really important [00:14:00] to protect it.

[00:14:00] So that was. Re that we really needed kind of local support with was this legal declaration. So turning what was kind of designated as farmland into what is now officially a nature reserve. So we reached out to a local south African NGO or conservation outcomes who are experts in navigating this process.

[00:14:27] It's a Amazing initiative under the south African government, where they recognize that the state national parks can't do it alone. They need private land owners. You know, it could, could be farmers who want to protect a small piece of their land that has an endangered frog. You know, they, they want to empower Private landowners to also contribute to conservation, sort of have this framework called the biodiversity stewardship program.

[00:14:52] And we worked with conservation outcomes to kind of navigate that whole process and an amazing environmental attorney [00:15:00] who is in Durban who helped us with that. And what's really, I think, amazing about our project and what makes it stand out is it's truly collaborative. So. I mean, we had donors from a lot from New York some on the west coast in other countries give $20 towards this dream or, you know, a thousand dollars or $50,000.

[00:15:23] So it's been, you know, literally thousands of people who've made it possible to save this habitat. And then on the ground, we partnered as well with landowners who were. Like kind of next door to us. So literally sort of inside the borders would have had a little small 20 hectic piece. So, you know, to really expand habitat, it means to term, you know, dropping fences, you imagine a South Africa land, I guess like suburbia in America, it's all fenced.

[00:15:50] So just biggest squares. And so for wildlife to have a better chance at fighting back against extinction, you know, you need to really open up that habitat [00:16:00] and Save the wild space and extend the wild spaces. So we worked with our neighbors and kind of brought them along in this journey of creating a nature reserve.

[00:16:09] So this it's a collective reserve, the land that waltz Marfan's today. Two separate pieces and it's about 83% of the total. And then we have three other private landowners who, you know, they have the conservation vision too. They were excited about being a part of it and dropping their fences and opening up their land to also be habitat for wildlife.

[00:16:30] So, you know, that was a really a collective. Project and we worked through this legal process and that was declared last month, which is super exciting. So the land is officially a nature reserve now in South Africa. That's

[00:16:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: incredible. And I, first of all, wow, again, and second of all, you said some things that I am super curious about, you said.

[00:16:57] We were you, you were talking about breaking, you [00:17:00] know, breaking defenses and, and removing them so that, so that wildlife can, and I know I've heard the same thing with like unbroken canopy cover for certain birds that they need, that they need, you know, that tree canopy cover in order to feel like this is their habitat.

[00:17:16] What. What are the species that are either most impacted or, or the ones that are in that now nature preserve, which I think is incredible, that are going to benefit the most from those kinds of fence lists areas.

[00:17:34] Wendy Hapgood: Well I would say, oh, you know, oh, wildlife benefits from. Having more space. We're a huge fan of EO Wilson, who is a very famous American biologist and his book is called half earth.

[00:17:48] And he did all of a sudden he did all the math for us, but basically if we save 80% of life on earth, you know, 80% of species on earth today, we have to. [00:18:00] Kind of protect 50% of land and Marine spaces for wildlife. If we don't do that, if we can't get to 50%, we can't say. Species, you know, we can't save 80% of species on earth, basically wildlife and animals need, especially the longer ranging ones.

[00:18:19] So the ones that really need space or the big megafauna. So elephants lions, leopards. Hyena, you know, the ones that re African wild dogs, they need a lot of protected space to range. They have bigger ranges, but wild space connected wild space. So, you know, when you talking about birds, it's the canopy.

[00:18:39] They need like a card or a green card, or to reverse these spaces that we've, we humans have basically kind of cut up old. Space on our planet and dissected it with farms and fences and housing developments. And so wildlife can't cross from a to B and they need to do that so they can [00:19:00] exchange genetic information and without that populations become essentially inbred and cannot survive long longterm.

[00:19:07] So that's why card or is, is so important and why connecting wild space. Super important. Yeah. And, and the vision for our land. So now it's a nature reserve. It's 3,200 acres which is about 1200 hectares. And I like to give people a frame of reference. That's like four times central park. So, you know, in a way it's big.

[00:19:30] In the grand scheme of things is kind of relatively small, but why it's so important is that it acts as a card or so this land that we've protected and stopped from being destroyed and joined together with neighbors and opened up wild space. It lies between two very big existing wildlife reserves.

[00:19:51] One side is the money wanna, it's a home to a very well-known. Wildlife reserve called [00:20:00] pin the private game reserve. They're amazing. When it comes to conservation, they're home to one of the most important cheetah breeding sites in South Africa. They're doing really good job. They are. WWF black rhino range expansion sites.

[00:20:13] So that means they're so good at keeping the rhinos safe that they actually they're black rhinos, which are critically endangered. They've increased in number so much so that they could give those rhinos to other reserves where they were lost and start to repopulate. Wow. Black rhinos in other reserves in Africa, they recently actually sent Jordan.

[00:20:32] With the two, I think Malawi to help repopulate giraffe. The, so they're doing an incredible job, keeping wildlife safe and being able to help, you know, other places. And then on the other side of the land that connects, you know, a, to B as a card, or is the UNESCO world heritage, you see ma mango Lisa wetland park.

[00:20:51] I mean it's name and Zulu means a place of wonder. It is a natural wonder, you know, of global significance that. [00:21:00] Incredible. It's got the biggest hippo pod in the breeding Cod in South Africa, over 500 bird species you know, and this card, or it will open up. So our long-term vision is dropping fences on both sides.

[00:21:13] So that wildlife from. The Pinta, the reserve inland the elephants, the rhinos can actually traverse through our card or to iSimangaliso and it goes all the way to the ocean. So yeah. Eons ago, you know, that little wildlife in South Africa also used to migrate the wildebeest would migrate through there.

[00:21:34] You know, this will create a path for wildlife to, to move again. And that's incredibly important in coming decades with climate change where wildlife will be. The conditions where they are, will change. They need water, they'll move to two. They need to be able to move, to find water and resources.

[00:21:53] So, you know, we're excited. That's our big, big vision. And that's why this land is so important.[00:22:00]

[00:22:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: A

[00:22:02] Wendy Hapgood: shock to you again is older.

[00:22:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yes, no, yes and no, I'm, I'm actually just full of sitting here going, I'm so grateful you're doing the work you're doing because yeah. I mean, without, without a way to move. Where they need to move in order to survive. And dare I say thrive. They will die. It's that simple.

[00:22:22] Eventually they will die. So I'm, I'm in, I'm grateful that that was the, that was the word that was coming to mind is as I was listening to you talk, and this corridor is going to is, and is going to be something that, that allows for that movement. But then you mentioned something earlier that I, that I wanted.

[00:22:44] Touch on. You said the word rewilding and what that, the stuff that you, the things that you've been talking about up to now have, have been about the animals that are already out in the wild w is rewilding something different than that. And if so, what [00:23:00] is it and how does it impact that that notion of habitat that protection?

[00:23:05] Wendy Hapgood: That's a great question. So Rewilding I have to say is probably what I love most about what we do. It's so hurtful. So it, and it can mean a lot of different things. It could mean bringing back to some people rewilding, maybe Maine bringing back long extinct animals. I mean, what we're doing is, so we save the land, we protect it, we start restoring it.

[00:23:25] And a lot of animals will make their way back naturally, but there's some bigger, usually the larger spaces. You know, they're not just going to arrive, they're still fences. So you have to literally reintroduce them. So all rewilding is really the re-introduction of native wildlife that would have existed there before, but has, you know, been gone for some time.

[00:23:49] So it's super exciting. I know when we, when we save the land, the first piece, one of our ducks. Loves giraffe. And that was her first question. When can we get dropped [00:24:00] off? And all of this is guided by ecologists and science. And yeah, we, we introduced re-introduced giraffe for the first time in 2017.

[00:24:11] It was super exciting. You see them arrive, jump out of a truck and like literally run for it. You know, I can imagine it's quite stressful to be in a truck that wild off, you know, and and then running free on their new home. And it's so powerful. It's such an inspiring image or thing to it. And also for our donors to see what we did.

[00:24:33] I like to say rewilding kind of sells itself. You know, we, we needed to do it. We needed to get this wildlife. And it's very strange for most of us that in South Africa, you need to buy. Usually those animals, you would have to buy them, which is, seems so strange to us. Like, what do you mean you can buy a giraffe and how much has the giraffe and what do you mean?

[00:24:54] You can buy a zebra and, you know, I think zebra absolutely incredible. And the idea that there is sort of a [00:25:00] market price, $350 per zebra just seems so cheap. So you know, when our donors and supporters heard that I like we'll all buy a zebra. And so that was a really cool connection for them and for us as well, too.

[00:25:15] Help fund our rewilding work. It really funded itself. And every person who donated to help us literally purchase as an individual zebra, an individual giraffe, they had the chance to name them and you can tell the difference, giraffe and zebra there, their patents are unique, like a fingerprint. So we have ID Oliver, giraffe.

[00:25:37] We have a draft ID kit. Playing spot the difference, you know, looking at the patterns and figuring out who is who. So, yeah, we have 14, actually 15 resident draft now. And over 30 zebra every year. Now we have babies born, which again is proof of this concept. You know, if you can save land and, and join it with neighboring areas and [00:26:00] re-introduce wildlife You know, nature will then start taking care of itself.

[00:26:03] And we're seeing zebra, foals being born and huge moment for us was our first baby giraffe being born on this land that would have otherwise been pineapples. So rewilding, you know, it's really is a mix of restoration, ecological restoration, and then re-introduction of wildlife. What we mean when we say rewilding.

[00:26:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Okay. First of all, I want to help by a zebra, right? Yes. Or a giraffe or a cheetah or whatever, whatever it is that whatever it is, because, because yes, I, I will actually, that will be my, my birthday fundraiser this year. I'm going to tell people that I want to raise money so that I can buy like two giraffe and have them be rewilding in the wild tomorrow.

[00:26:46] But no seriously, because this is one of those things where. That's not something I've. Ever thought about or known was even possible. And so again, lots of gratitude from my end, because, because it's a [00:27:00] way for people like me, who probably are never going to start their own wild tomorrow fund to, to.

[00:27:07] Participate in a way that, that you would find helpful. And that brings me to my next question. What sort of help does the wild tomorrow fund need from people, private citizens, someone who's listening to this podcast who gets fired up like I am now who wants to help? What kind of help do you.

[00:27:24] Wendy Hapgood: Well, we would love help.

[00:27:25] We still, as I mentioned, that first piece of land we still have a deadline to meet a fundraising goal to actually fund finish the purchase. That's in the next may. So we love to equate things down to kind of bite sized chunks. A one acre is about 990 us dollars. So if anyone wants to sponsor an acre, it's a, it's an amazing gift or a legacy kind of a gift to someone.

[00:27:50] Then we have also volunteer trips and I think it's super powerful for those who can and would love to join us in the field in [00:28:00] South Africa perhaps next year. We have volunteer trips, so we bring 10 people at a time over to South Africa for two weeks. And then you can. Individually apart of everything we're doing and see the region and see the wildlife and, and participate.

[00:28:15] Hands-on, it's really kind of, for those who, where conservation isn't going to be, their full-time job, you can, you know, be a part of conservation truly for, for those weeks. And, and it's really powerful. I mean, it changes people's lives. That's how In a way, how we started well, tomorrow fund was John had been volunteering in Zululand in KwaZulu-Natal South Africa.

[00:28:36] So it really changes people's lives. And we find volunteers come back to New York and they don't want to just. That's it. Thanks. I had a great holiday. They really continue on with us as supporters and keep helping. So yeah, we, we would love more support and funding and help. And I love that for a lot of our supporters.

[00:28:57] It's very personal, you know, they really feel a [00:29:00] part of what we're doing and what I find truly beautiful for those who sponsored wildlife reintroductions. It's really interesting to see what they named their animal often. It's a pit. So there's a lot of dogs that are, you know, running around in central park who have a namesake in, in Africa, but sometimes it's departed even people, which I think is very moving.

[00:29:21] You know, that idea that. Created a gift in their name. That's now a zebra running free. So yeah, we would love more help.

[00:29:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, that's fantastic. I sign me up. I'm absolutely going to do that. And it's interesting because the, the words that, that are coming up in my head, as I'm hearing you talk are hope and connection yes.

[00:29:44] That you feel connected to. This place in South Africa, if you're in New York, if you're in LA, if you're in London, if you're in wherever and you can actually make that connection, what do you think makes those two words and, and maybe I'm totally off, [00:30:00] but what, what makes hope and connection so important in wildlife conservation and habitat restoration and the work that you're doing?

[00:30:08] I think it's sort

[00:30:08] Wendy Hapgood: of everything. I, you know, we started out as well. It being overwhelmed by. The destruction. It's very, it's easy to get depressed and feel down, you know, thinking about the planet and you know, this mass loss of. By diversity. You know, as it's called the mass extinction, the six mass extinction of life on earth, and this time it's driven by us, not by an asteroid climate change and all that grief like that.

[00:30:38] I think that sadness does help motivate people to do something, but it can also be really overwhelming. And I think what's important about hope is people need hope. I think we've seen it all the messaging about climate change, you know, I don't know. The negative messaging. You know, the warnings is really important, but I don't think it's moved people enough.

[00:30:59] I think [00:31:00] we all need to see that we can do something, you know, that your input, that you're, you know, everyone feels very small. We're like a drop in the ocean of these global challenges, but actually you can really make a difference. And if it's one zebra or coming on a volunteer trip, you know, each volunteer.

[00:31:20] Raises $2,000. That's two acres, you know, you can, you, it, it makes a real difference. And I think people feel inspired by that hope. And, you know, in some ways our projects far away from most people they're in New York, but that connection and feeling connected to the project, to the land, to those zebras.

[00:31:40] It's really important and that dream that maybe one day they'll be able to come and see for themselves. You know, I think it's really powerful. I'm more positive. I think we're, we've all had a rough year and yeah, I just think that it's a more positive and powerful message to move people, to take action.[00:32:00]

[00:32:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Again, I'm thinking. Wow. Yeah, I, it is true. We, the world has had a rough year and yet what's interesting to me about that is that during that time, when we were all. As many of us as could be sort of staying at home, things came back, you know, the, the, the weather changed wildlife started. There were pictures of wildlife on, you know, sort of different critters resting and relaxing in, in what were normally parks and places where you would just not expect to see wildlife.

[00:32:39] So there's, there is this there's this. The notion that I always come back to honestly was they were here first. And so for me, it's not just us making room for them. It's us. I had captain Paul Watson on my show, just on the show just a little while ago. And he was saying, you know, one of the [00:33:00] things that, that bothers him is the word stewardship.

[00:33:02] He, he doesn't think that stuartship is the way it should go. He's like we belong here. We're part of it. We're not overseers. We don't have dominion. We're part of this whole entire cycle and process. And so, so with, with the work that you're doing, it seems to me like that kind of connection goes beyond.

[00:33:19] People feeling connected. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a connection to the biome. It's a connection then to the earth. And if you can, do you have any stories of that kind of realization or that kind of, of moment of truth, if you will, for either from yourself or from your husband or from people that you've worked with,

[00:33:42] Wendy Hapgood: I'm just faint.

[00:33:42] Well, I think about that, it does, I think, bring us back to. The concept of rewilding and another way of thinking about rewilding. Rewilding ourselves, meaning reconnecting humans to nature. And exactly [00:34:00] like you're saying, and captain Paul Watson kind of a paradigm shift from seeing ourselves as having dominion and like.

[00:34:08] Power over nature to being a part of nature, more of a eco centric approach and, and restoring kind of the whole ecosystem. And that includes us too. So, and repairing that connection between ourselves to care more about nature or and to give, I see it as giving space back to nature to bird, you know, they belong.

[00:34:34] Equally as we do, we've taken so much away that they need, we need to give space back or we'll lose them all. You know, I think about where this heatwave and just the little things, the birds that died from it was too hot, you know, and, and I feel. That's all, you know, we've, we've closed that with, with our agriculture and our emissions and how climate change [00:35:00] links back to the biodiversity loss.

[00:35:02] It's all accelerating. So we really need to act now, or we will lose, you know, I, I think how devastating to not have elephants on the planet, how will you explain that to your children? And how do people explain that the animals that like grew up within their storybooks don't exist anymore? We didn't care enough.

[00:35:21] So I think rewilding, the human spirit is a big part of it. You know, for me, I think it came in steps, like rather than kind of a sudden aha moment, more of a buildup and a realization. And yeah, I th and I think going from helplessness to empowerment, you know, and knowing it's possible to restore. Some of the damage we've done and, and actually, you know, having this vision for the planet, that's 50% from nature.

[00:35:52] That's a big goal, but I think the more you are in nature, the more you appreciate it. [00:36:00] And so I would say, and I think COVID, you know, a lot of people spent time in parks and nature. Cause there was, it was such a relief in a way. A welcome response for us. And I hope that one of the positive benefits of that is more of a, of a love of nature and then desire to protect it.

[00:36:18] So I'm hoping

[00:36:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: hope seems to be the word of the day here. And it's interesting because I know for myself, when we were during lockdown, One of the things that I needed to do was feel the sun on my face. Like I couldn't just sit in the house, so I had to be out and, and it, even if it were just to walk outside, there's a tree, there was a tree right here.

[00:36:47] Our apartment and I would walk outside and I would say hello to the tree because it, it gave me that sense of connection. And that's one of the things that it takes us back to ancient stories when people [00:37:00] were really part like knew that they were part of nature, part of the earth, part of a process of this whole biosphere.

[00:37:07] And it sounds to me like your mission. In part, at least is, is that in addition to stemming biodiversity loss is, it's kind of, have you found that that's, that that's an outcome that, that the people who are involved really get connected on that deep level?

[00:37:26] Wendy Hapgood: Yeah. Like two, something like that. Maybe weren't really into nature or conservation before.

[00:37:34] Huh? You know, come on this journey with us and then become essentially conservationists, you know, at heart. I think that's really powerful. I mean, our, one of our major donors and on the board, you know, initially he was thinking he would spend his philanthropic time on helping with poverty, which is of course a really important topic, but it was [00:38:00] his dog, you know, like he had a room.

[00:38:02] Strong connection with his pet that made him think more about wildlife. And he went on safari and his wife sort of used, like, you know, maybe you should think about, you know, working with Watson more fun. And he's been super helpful or transformative for us and the connections that he's brought. And I think about that, that he wasn't someone who thought that wildlife and habitat conservation was sort of his thing we need.

[00:38:27] Find more of those people where it's you know, they it's education and exposure or, you know, being a part of this project is very inspiring and then people get sort of caught up in it, which is great. I think we need more people to connect to nature. And is it through, I think it can be through your pet through that.

[00:38:48] So. Very personal connection between a human and an animal and seeing them as, maybe as an individual and important, and then maybe through the park and appreciating the trees [00:39:00] and what they bring for us. And then that kind of connection expands from local to, to more global issues. So yeah, we need to figure out something, it's a question I've thought about a lot.

[00:39:12] How, why do I care so deeply? You know, it has been a progression over time to the point that I would give up, you know, sort of dedicate my life to this and saving nature. And then other people, you know, they're maybe distracted or they don't care as much. How do you convince, I want to say convert, how do you inspire other people to connect more deeply to nature?

[00:39:38] So that's a big question. And I, I, I think. Being out in nature is the key and go, you know, going for those hikes or coming on a trip to South Africa, of course, super powerful and helping out with conservation, you know, really being involved. And I think it really grows from there.[00:40:00]

[00:40:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, I know

[00:40:04] Wendy Hapgood: poor Wendy. You're going, is she still

[00:40:06] Izolda Trakhtenberg: there? I'm not sure what's going on. I'm sorry. I'm just, I, as, as you were, as you were speaking, I was there again. I had my little metaphoric pompoms out and I was cheering you on and it's when I use, as I said, I used to work for NASA and I used to do the.

[00:40:22] Participate in these environmental education workshops where we traveled all over the world. And one of the places we traveled with South Africa and did, did a workshop and the people who came were all teachers and other educators and, and who were going to be learning about these environmental protocols so that their students could study.

[00:40:40] Local ecosystems. And so when you were asking that question, I'm like, yeah, I so need to, I do this thing called the earth lady where I go into schools and I teach about the soil and, and, and the atmosphere and the water bodies and by, and the biosphere, as far as like the actual the plants that grow up near their school so that they can get into it.

[00:40:59] And now [00:41:00] I'm like, okay, I need to obviously add an animal component. What are the animals in your local area? And. What kind of wildlife is there, what might you find? And so, and it translates up into what's out in South Africa, what's out in, in Namibia, what's, what's in central Asia. There are lots of places where we can be looking at this.

[00:41:20] And so the question that I have for you about that is your, if you could have anything you wanted for wild tomorrow fund to do what would be the, the vision, what is the big, this is what would look like. Doing what we had dreamed of.

[00:41:39] Wendy Hapgood: Was a big question. I don't ask

[00:41:41] Izolda Trakhtenberg: small questions.

[00:41:44] Wendy Hapgood: I, I can see if I think 10 years ahead or maybe, you know, we'll be, you know, we've done a lot more than we thought we could in a short amount of time.

[00:41:51] So maybe five years ahead, you know, this Cardo project in South Africa is really the first. So the dream is for that to be. [00:42:00] Completed the car or open and working as a, as a card off for wildlife connecting these two huge reserves together, 80,000 acres to 800,000 acres in connecting that green space and the elephants can migrate again and, and we'll debase, you know, that will be like a really huge achievement and a dream come true.

[00:42:20] And then, you know, of course it will. It's, it's ongoing. It's like, then the results. The vision is for it to be self-sustaining. And then the question is what's next? So, you know, I see this future where we have, you know, our it's called the Wila nature reserve in South Africa, then All the places on the planet that threatened then an immediate risk of destruction and conversion for agricultural development, where there's really threatened species and saving that land.

[00:42:51] And it kind of repeating a process to save it, protect it, restore it. Rewild it. I mean, it could be mad, I guess. Yeah, it could be. I read about [00:43:00] place in Philadelphia, super important habitat for fireflies and without this habitat. Incredible spectacle. One exists in the United States would be incredible.

[00:43:11] You know, just having, being able to.

[00:43:17] Show you what's possible with restaurants. That would be my dream and

[00:43:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: bingo. I love it to show what's possible with restoration. I think that's that's. I think that's great. So first of all, Wendy, you're not getting rid of me that easily. So totally going to start getting people to, to sponsor zebras and giraffes.

[00:43:36] That's going to be wonderful. Absolutely. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see what I can do. And I also believe in starting them while they're young. So we're going to get kids on board.

[00:43:45] Wendy Hapgood: We had some kindergartners, did some, made some slime and sold slime and rice. Like I think it was $400. So amazing. People have little big, you know, it's really amazing what people can do and they really want to, [00:44:00] so, yeah.

[00:44:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And, and, and also, I mean, one of the things that, that we, that I've sort of really learned in this last hour of chatting with you is that.

[00:44:08] There are things I didn't know were possible. And so now that I know that they're possible, and now that if you're listening to this episode, now that you know, they're possible, the call has been made, take, take up the banner and get Ranger's shoes or something like that, or, or sponsor zebra. I think that those are the kinds of things that we can be doing that we didn't, I didn't realize that it could be done.

[00:44:27] So I'm really grateful to you, Wendy, for sharing all that. And if someone wants to get involved, how do they find you? Where, where can they find out about the wild tomorrow fund to get involved, to sponsor a zebra, to name the Seabrook? I would name a zebra Kimba after my beloved cat. I know that I would, but how would they do

[00:44:47] Wendy Hapgood: that?

[00:44:48] Okay. Well, for them. Get in touch or find out more about what we do that can head to our website, which is well tomorrow fund.org. You'll see there there's stories and [00:45:00] also volunteer menu. So you can look at, they can look at, you know, what trips we have coming up. Our animals sponsorships are more sort of direct because we have to be actually sort of reintroducing more or.

[00:45:14] W each year we have zebra born, for example. So you can actually sponsor babies either instead of actually not needing to purchase some right now, because they're kind of rewilding themselves. There will come a time where we need to buy, purchase more wildlife. So yeah, just, there was a contact us on the website at the bottom and.

[00:45:34] Email will come to me and to John and we'd love to be in touch. And yeah, we, we love at are a lot of us supporters say they, when they talk about the work of Baltimore fund, they say we did this. So it's really, truly is a community it's very personal. I like to say as well as one degree of separation between, you know, you, the donor and the future.

[00:45:56] Because there is a sort of between sphere and then yeah, we're, you [00:46:00] know, in a way we're, we're small team doing big things and we're really proud of what we've been able to do. And so it is quite personal and yeah, we welcome. We love meeting new people. We need to meet new people. So please reach out.

[00:46:12] We'd love to hear from you. And everybody can help from a kindergartner to a high school kid to, you know, a retiree. So please. Well to help the planet. So hope you'll join us.

[00:46:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Absolutely. Well, I'm going to put all of that information in the show notes and Wendy, I know that you have to run, but I do have one question that I ask everybody who comes on the show and it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some very interesting results in the question.

[00:46:37] Is this, if you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?

[00:46:46] Wendy Hapgood: Ooh, that's a love. That's an awesome question. I would say.

[00:46:51] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hmm.

[00:46:54] Wendy Hapgood: Love nature. I don't know. I it's about moving people to really care. So rewild your hot, [00:47:00] something like that. And then people have to think, what does that mean?

[00:47:02] And then go actually read what does rewilding mean? And then come on board with us. So pretty wild it's rewild and leave it. And then people have to be like, what on earth?

[00:47:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And so you do. At wild tomorrow.fun.org. Right? So that's right. Absolutely. Well, Wendy, thank you so much. What a phenomenal conversation.

[00:47:26] I'm so grateful that you were on the show. I really appreciate you taking

[00:47:29] Wendy Hapgood: the time. Thank you so much to Zelda for having me in and giving us this opportunity to tell the story while it's more fun and rewilding to all your listeners. It was such a pleasure. And thank you so much. My

[00:47:40] Izolda Trakhtenberg: pleasure. If you've listened to this episode, go get involved with wild tomorrow fund.

[00:47:45] Find a way to volunteer. Find a way to sponsor a baby zebra. How could you not want to sponsor a baby zebra? Come on. This is his older Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast, reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.[00:48:00]

[00:48:03] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[00:48:21] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2020. As always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.

 

* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I’ll get a small commission. And please remember, I’ll never recommend a product or service I don’t absolutely love!

 

How to Level Up Your Speaking and Presentation Skills with Coach and Award-Winning Actor, Meridith Grundei

Meridith Grundei, Public Speaking and Presentation Skills Coach, Actor, Director, and Improviser.

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset

If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

 

 

As an award-winning theatre director, producer, and former Second City improv teacher, Meridith Grundei recognized the similarities between performing on stage every night and presenting to clients/colleagues every day, but the latter didn’t have the right tools to bring their stories to life. So she decided to do something about it.

Eleven years and some change later, Grundei Coaching has helped thousands of individuals and corporations

around the world achieve career growth and success. Meridith specializes in presentation and public speaking consultation, individual training and development, and creative team solutions using applied improvisational theatre techniques to build trust, empathy, and out-of-the-box thinking.

Connect with Meridith

www.grundeicoaching.com and www.meridithgrundei.com

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/thisimprovisedlife/ and https://www.instagram.com/meridithgrundeicoaching/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meridith/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/GrundeiCoaching

Meridith Grundei Episode Transcript

 

[00:00:00] Meridith Grundei: First off. I was just want to say the collective whole is super important. I think in order for transformation to happen and to see the actual results.

[00:00:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM, brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:35] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let's get to the show.

[00:00:58] Oh, my goodness. We've [00:01:00] just been laughing so hard. Hi, this is the Trakhtenberg with the innovative mindset podcast and I bid you welcome. I'm super excited about this week's guest. You can tell Meredith is already laughing. We're both cracking up, but you need to, you need to hear about Meredith grin, die, check it out.

[00:01:18] And I did I say it right? Or as a guy I dug around di see, Brandise we've just had. Fabulous conversation about name changing when you are, when you have the opportunity to do so. And Gren di is, is the, is the name that is the right name and I'm going to say it correctly. So here we go. Meredith Grundei dog gone.

[00:01:38] It I'm going to get it right. As eventually as an award winning theater director, producer, and former second city improv teacher Meredith recognize the similarities between performing on stage every night and presenting to clients and colleagues. But the latter didn't have the right tools to bring their stories to life.

[00:01:56] So she decided to do something about it. You know, this is catnip [00:02:00] to me. If you're, if you're a longtime listener of this show, you know how much I love what this is and what Meredith does so 11 years and some change later. Growing dye coaching has helped thousands of individuals and corporations around the world achieve career growth and success.

[00:02:15] Meredith specializes in presentation and public speaking consultation, individual training and development and creative team solutions using applied improv, improvisational theater techniques to build trust, empathy, and out of the box thing. Wow, this is, this is so exciting for me because we're going to get really deep into some of this.

[00:02:34] I'm so thrilled to have you here. Meredith. Welcome.

[00:02:37] Meridith Grundei: Thank you. I am so happy to be here. This is I make, so I'm just giddy on the inside about the conversation that is about to emerge. Certainly

[00:02:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: hope so, unless, unless my cat comes in like the, like he did the other day and jumps on the microphone and everything goes all over the place.

[00:02:54] We'll improvise. There you go. You'll improvise. I took very few improv classes in theater. I'll I'll I'll [00:03:00] try and yes, yes, yes. And you as much as possible. I love it. So, so talk to me a little bit about that. What, how did you get from. Theater director, producer, improv, teacher, professor, all of these things too.

[00:03:15] Now you help people and companies get their message out. How did that come about?

[00:03:21] Meridith Grundei: That's a really great question. It's organically come about over time. I have always seen myself and as a multi-passionate human and I remember the very first time someone said to me, I believe it was in high school, you're a Jack of all trades, but she said it in kind of a negative way.

[00:03:41] And you know, I'm, you know, that Jack of all trades master of none kind of way. And, and at first I thought, this is my handicap. I have all these passions because I was dancing. I was acting, but I loved organizing. I worked in the career center. I just have always [00:04:00] loved these things. My dad was an entrepreneur, so he, he was always, I was always inspired by him and always curious about exactly what he did.

[00:04:07] He also had a job that I could never understand it, but he did these other things that. We're just exciting. I was like, wow, you're opening a dry cleaners. And now you're opening a virtual reality games place. And now you're so I was always just really an all of that. And then when I moved to San Francisco, when I graduated from college and I started performing with an improv group called ed nauseum, and I'd taken at that time, maybe one improv class in high school.

[00:04:36] And I met these, this group of people through bats and I had taken a couple courses there and I just started to love, I just fell in love with it immediately, and then ended up in a sketch comedy group called old man McGinty. And we'd do this crazy, like very absurdist kind of sketch comedy. It was this really dynamic group.

[00:04:59] [00:05:00] Performers that had these wonderful like dance ability writers and a lot of experimental theater, performers, clowns, so forth. And so we put this group together and one of our members was like, I'm moving to Chicago, I'm going to study in Providence. Like, Ooh, I want to go to Chicago. I want to study improv.

[00:05:19] So I'm like, let's do it. And at that time I had just gotten married and we. Jet set it to Chicago. And I started interning my way through IO, improv, Olympic and the next thing I know, I am then teaching at the second city and I'm helping start their youth program there. And cause one of the core faculty members was co-teaching a class with me that was teaching kids how to create their own.

[00:05:49] And so I started that. I started working at the second city and it was a wonderful experience for me. And I was always inspired by the people that I was working with. [00:06:00] And for, and I did a couple at that time, it was called Bisco gigs teaching to more corporate folk, if you will, and helping them. Find ways to work better and more efficiently as teams using improvisation as a tool to do that.

[00:06:18] And then from there, this executive coach, Dennis Schroder pulled me in and was like, I want you to work with me and all the time. So I was like, okay. And I do the Birkman assessment, which is a psychological assessment, similar to disc and Myers-Briggs and he said, This is how I work as an executive coach with these teams.

[00:06:36] And then I want you to come in and let's use applied improv as a way to show these personal things different personality types and how they can work together as an asset. And better communicate with each other as a team and trust and all of that. And so for several years, and I actually am still in touch with Dennis and do the occasional work with him.

[00:06:57] I, I, I just ended up [00:07:00] doing that work and loving it because I saw the opportunities to help people not only engage with each other, but also find a safe and brave space to share story. I, it was astounding to me. How many organizations did not provide the space, whether that was conscious or unconscious for people to actually share what is like what's going on in their lives.

[00:07:29] What's what, they're, what they don't feel that they can bring into the workspace, right? Because you leave, you leave your personal life at home. And I'll, I'll never forget this one experience where I was working with a team of manufacturing team up in upstate New York in Rochester, and I have this Augusta ball exercise and Augusta ball is a Brazilian practitioner who brought he's no longer with us, but he, he used improv and theater [00:08:00] as a tool to bring community together and people of different backgrounds and ethnicities and so forth.

[00:08:06] And. This one exercise is called and it made me think. And so what you do is each person is given one minute to tell a story about something that's happened in their life and in relatively recent, right? A relatively recent timeframe. So in last week or last month, and you punctuate it, you tell your story and then you punctuate it with, and it made me think, and then you allow space to sit.

[00:08:32] And so you allow that story to land on the listeners. And this one, gentlemen, we come to this one man in the circle and he shares his story about his son. Who's been going through chemotherapy. No one on that team knew no one. And that to me blew my mind like this poor man has been holding this. Painful thing and [00:09:00] expected to work and expected to show up and to do his job.

[00:09:05] And that was. A moment for me where I went, I, this is important. This is what I am doing. This work, not, I, more people need to be doing this work. More people need to be going into organizations and using these tools of the theater and of improv to help open up the hearts and the minds of the individuals that are doing this work.

[00:09:29] I just got the bug and I just kept doing it from there on, and I started doing it on my own with Meredith granddad coaching. And within that, I was also. Invited by Dennis I'll give him credit. He was like, I've got this CEO, please help him with his presentation. He has to give at this big conference, I've got this guy over here who needs to level up his executive presence.

[00:09:49] I've got this person over here and I would yes. And things. And I think it's a Tina Fey quote, but she was like say yes and figure out the rest later, which is kind of what [00:10:00] I felt like I was doing. And it's led me to. This wonderfully PA this wonderful path that I'm on. And I haven't looked back and I don't think I will.

[00:10:10] I mean, I, I, what was it? What am I trying to say here? That was a rough drafted thought. Anyway. That's, that's how I got here.

[00:10:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's fantastic. And so much of what you said. To me, what I heard it it's I heard courage. It was, that was one of the things that, that I, it seems like you help people bring out, you know, have sort of pull themselves into themselves, but then have the courage to express to actually say what's on their mind or do what they want to do and be more of themselves, especially in corporate situations.

[00:10:56] And the first thing that we started talking about that you mentioned was [00:11:00] improv. And I would love it because I have a whole list of questions based on what you just said. There's a ton. And what, what is improv? What, what is improvisational theater? What is improv? Because people's bandy the term around, but I'm not sure how many people, I actually know what it means, what it is and what it can do for you.

[00:11:21] Meridith Grundei: That's a great question. So improv, I will start off with the one thing that people most commonly can relate to when I describe it in front of a group, which is, I always referenced, like, have you seen whose line is it anyway? And then people, I see a bunch of people nodding up and down and I'm nodding up and down as I'm sharing this story with you right now.

[00:11:43] So that would be the first context to do it. Yeah. Whose line is it? Anyway, they have a structure, a game, if you will. And within that game. So the structure are the quote unquote and I'm doing air quotes are the rules, right? [00:12:00] And you make things up on the spot within that structure though. So the structure gives you some guidelines.

[00:12:06] So that's what I do is I teach people. Games, these exercises, these activities. However you want to frame that that best fits for you. I give them these games that they work within so that they can see. The magic that happens afterwards. Right. And I give them other tools, like the foundation of improvisation is this idea of yes.

[00:12:31] And so when we, yes, and somebody's idea, we can further the storyline. We can add to the idea we can. Find that moment of agreement. Right? And so with that tool and within these structures, these games that I give them, we're able to make discoveries about ourselves within the context of the game. So for example, to me, the applied improv piece is the [00:13:00] magic is in the debrief.

[00:13:01] Right. So what did you notice come up for you when you were put in this situation? What feelings. We're in your body when this happened. What did you notice in your communication when this happened? What is it that you would do differently next time? If we were to do this exercise again, where you making eye contact were you breathing?

[00:13:25] Oftentimes when we feel stressed out or anxiety, we hold our breath, right? Do these exercises up on our feet. So it's a full body experience off, we spend so much time sitting down that I think that physical engagement that sematic kinesthetic engagement is incredibly important as well. So that I hope answers the question, what is improv, and it's also an amazing opportunity to get people to just laugh together.

[00:13:57] You're laughing together. You're getting amazing [00:14:00] insights on your own communication skills. You're building trust. And there are no real world consequences within the containers. So we're not going to like some multi-billion dollar organization is not going to implode because we're doing improv game.

[00:14:16] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I certainly hope not.

[00:14:18] That would be one heck of an improv game if you do that.

[00:14:21] Meridith Grundei: Wow. Wow.

[00:14:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And you rubbed your hands together right there. You did. I did

[00:14:27] Meridith Grundei: put finger thing.

[00:14:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: So that's, that's a, that's a fabulous, that's a fabulous encapsulation of what improv is and something that, that sparked from you when you said that was the questions that you asked the debrief, as you put it.

[00:14:42] If you're calling on people and correct me if I'm wrong here, it seems like you're calling on people to have a, a deeper awareness of self of who they are, of where they are of what's happening inside them. And often we don't, we don't, we tend to think outwardly, you know, we tend to [00:15:00] go, oh, this is, this is on my to-do list today.

[00:15:03] This is, these are the things that I have to get done. This is the work that I have to do, but we don't tend to spend a lot of time. Internally and going, what about the work I'm doing on myself? So it sounds like there's an invitation inherent in what you're doing for people to work on themselves. And I'm wondering, how does, how does that work for you?

[00:15:22] How do you, how do you employ that? And if you do specifically and what are the results that you get at the end of the process?

[00:15:32] Meridith Grundei: Oh, that's a, that's a great question. Yeah. I think it's the way that I guide people through things that I give them the invitation to drop in and think in those ways. And I do always call it an invitation.

[00:15:46] I don't try to force things upon people. I think it's important for people to make their own discoveries. And so I, I repeat myself a lot in the debrief. So touch in, you know, [00:16:00] I have an Allen Ginsburg quote that I like to use often, which is notice what you notice. And then I feel like the more that I can repeat back, the things that I'm inviting people to do, whether they make those discoveries in the room or on the zoom room, if you will, these days, but in the room with me.

[00:16:19] Great. But they may not make those discoveries until a month later when they're sitting at their desk. And something happens that triggers a response or a strong emotion, and then they can reflect back to that exercise. So I think that there's time and space for integration with these things and the repetition can help with that.

[00:16:41] I hope that answered the first part of your question. Can you repeat the second part of your question? Sure.

[00:16:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: The, the second part was actually really about. Like you said they might notice months later. I, I recently noticed something that I did in a theater class in college many, many years ago, and sort [00:17:00] of got an aha moment from that.

[00:17:01] And I'm wondering when you go through the process in the moment, if you have any stories about those results so that you can see them. So that they're like the, the gentlemen whose whose son had, who was going through chemo. The people there were changed, right? The results were pretty immediate by hearing his story.

[00:17:21] And I'm wondering, I guess I'm, I'm being a little bit, you know, I'm being a little shameless cause I'm like, tell me, tell me the results, Meredith good stuff, you know, but

[00:17:30] Meridith Grundei: fair enough. You know, but,

[00:17:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: but it's, it's because I think we don't spend a lot of time in that space. Wow, this, this has changed me. And let me spend a little time figuring out how it has changed me.

[00:17:44] So in those, in those spaces, when you're cause you're holding space for people to be themselves, which I love what, what are the profound results, small and large in those processes?

[00:17:57] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, that's a really great question. I think there are [00:18:00] multiple ones. One is how you work collectively as a team. And that's why I think the work is important to do.

[00:18:07] And I think that's why leadership needs to show up too, you know, because oftentimes I've noticed that leadership will set something up for their team management will and then management won't be there. So all of these people have learned their team has learned this like great news. Tools and then management isn't there.

[00:18:25] So that first off I was just wanting to say the collective whole is super important. I think in order for a transformation to happen and to see the actual results For me, it's about, for example, seeing the results, how do you organize a meeting? Right. So because of some of the tools in the, in the debrief, we find out where some of the pain points are and how they can be solved through those exercises.

[00:18:51] So if you're in an it, for example, in an ideation phase, or you're a part of an agile or scrum group or your, whatever the industry [00:19:00] might be, and you're in that first infant stages of creating. When everyone in the group has this idea of what yes. And is and how it can be applicable, it shifts things.

[00:19:11] Let's get all the ideas up on the whiteboard or on the post-it notes. And let's see what emerges without saying no. There will be room for no later there will be room for, I see this. And can we do this later? Just get all the ideas out there because what that also does is it creates a room of inclusivity.

[00:19:31] So all voices get to be heard. Nobody is being cut off. Nobody is being told. No all ideas are good ideas at that moment in time, because what happens is in ideation in brainstorming and creativity. We want to it's so often that we want to look at, what's not working first and I'm a big fan of looking at like, well, let's look at what is working and let's get it all out there because whatever, if, if this, if you have an [00:20:00] instant to a, no, that no actually might inspire the idea that does work.

[00:20:05] Does that make sense? Absolutely.

[00:20:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: No, it absolutely. It does. And it's interesting because. As I'm listening to you, I'm going the people who are actually doing the work, nobody knows their job better than they do. You know, nobody knows what you do better than you do. So if you're going to ask for ideas and make the caveat that there are no bad ones, just throw them out.

[00:20:30] Some of those people have never been heard from before. And it sounds like you're giving them the, the, the stage, if you will, the opportunity. And then they can. Present their own. I do something similar with some of the workshops I do giving space so that people who aren't often heard from can, can have their say.

[00:20:50] And I love what you said about leadership being invited and almost mandatory show up folks, because that presents an opportunity for [00:21:00] them to, to see some of those ideas that they otherwise might not see. Right.

[00:21:06] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, exactly. And they also get to see the dynamics of the. They get to see how people work together in these different situations that they may not be able to see in the day-to-day grind of the work.

[00:21:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, absolutely. And that's so interesting. So talk to me about team dynamics. What is that? What is team dynamics? You mentioned it a couple of times and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on exactly what it is and how we can use it specifically, because this is the innovative mindset podcast. How can we use it to innovate?

[00:21:37] How can we use it to think.

[00:21:40] Meridith Grundei: Yeah. Well, the first place that I go to is using each other's different sets of skills as an asset. Right. And so that we look at, so I'll just bring it back to like what Dennis works with with the different personality types. We all have different ways of seeing and approaching an idea or a problem [00:22:00] solving and finding a solution to something.

[00:22:03] Right. My husband and I could not be more different in how we problem solve something, but it's how we choose to work together and communicate in order to solve that problem. And so what I really appreciate about using these, like I said before, they have no real world what's the word I'm looking for?

[00:22:23] No consequences. Thank you. Ding, ding, ding. They have no real world consequences, right? But what it does is it really helps bring to the surface, these different personality types, and rather getting frustrated with that person who might be more on the execution thing and, or getting more, really uptight around that person.

[00:22:42] The out of the box, creative thinker, it's like, how do you take those two different personality types and put them together so that they can actually work efficiently and effectively together and see each other's different types of personality types as an asset to the, to solving a problem. So when I talk about team [00:23:00] dynamics, I mean that, to me, it's about, yes, and-ing each other, seeing each other and ourselves.

[00:23:05] Brilliance and how they can all fit together so that we can be effective and efficient with our day to day work and tasks and show each other mutual respect and honor each other's differences.

[00:23:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. You just said that last part because that's one of the things that I find happens is that. That can sometimes be missing that, that, that respecting that other people think differently and that not only is it okay, but it's to be celebrated because they can come at it from a perspective.

[00:23:35] Yeah. You may not have seen. So let me ask you a strange question and maybe it's not a strange question. I imagine there are times when you're doing one of these workshops that you meet resistance from the people and all

[00:23:51] Meridith Grundei: that die. Yeah. I, I, I

[00:23:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm like, yeah, this is kind of a

[00:23:55] Meridith Grundei: silly question. Not a strange question at all.

[00:23:58] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And so, you know, [00:24:00] because some people given the room to play, maybe of playing, if you see what I mean. So I'm wondering what, when you meet resistance, how. What are the innovative ways that you encourage invite, inspire people to, to let go of the fear a little, or maybe to push through the fear? I'm not sure what, what, what your way is in order to actually get the best out of the expense.

[00:24:29] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, I think it's a wonderful question. And I will say the most resistant resistance that I am met with is usually at the very beginning, I walk into the room and I oftentimes get the, who is this person what's happening? Why are we forced to do this? Like, you can just feel the energy in the room is palpable.

[00:24:47] And and it's not all the time. I mean, sometimes you've got the one person in the room that's like, I love improv. Like, thank God for you being in the room. Right. And And so what happens is pretty [00:25:00] quickly, I have everyone gathered in a circle. I have them push their chairs back and, you know, if I can get into the room to arrange it the way that I would like it to, to be the best learning experience possible for everyone, I do that sometimes I can't do that.

[00:25:13] So it's a little bit of a rearranging, right. And in that moment, I'm warming myself up. I'm introducing myself to people. I'm giving them eye contact. I'm making sure they know that I'm not as scary. I don't look scary to, to begin with. I'm like, Three and I weigh a hundred pounds, so they're scared of me.

[00:25:28] That's a bigger issue. But so then I gather people do a circle and we S we do, you know, some gradual warmups and and I get to know who they are. They get to know me. And what happens is quite. It's beautiful. I will say it's just beautiful. Is that somehow within that timeframe within the first 30 minutes of being there, I have given them permission to play and it's as if no one else has given them that permission in a really long [00:26:00] time.

[00:26:01] And I can't tell you it's the most wonderful, beautiful shift that I have ever experienced. Is with people who are non-performers, who have no idea what they're about to get into. And then all of a sudden they understand it and they're like, oh my God, I get to just play for three hours. Awesome. And so that is usually I will say That's most of my experiences, every so often you'll get the one person it's usually one person and I hate to say it, but it's usually a guy who has a lot of resistance.

[00:26:37] And so I, there it's a fine balance, right? Because you don't want that person to take up air time for everybody else. You don't want to, so it's a delicate balance of agreement and saying, let's take a risk here and let's look at your own stuff. And oftentimes it, [00:27:00] it works out. Okay. Right. And I'm a big fan of doing, I touch back into and I, and I noticed these things and I feel.

[00:27:07] I might send an email and do a check-in with that person later. Or I might check in with their management later because I do care and I want to know where the resistance is living in the body and, or in the mind and or with past experiences. Because even though the work is playful, even though we are having a good time with each other, it can still bring up stuff for people.

[00:27:28] It just. Sure. We're humans. So with, with lots of layers and somehow within that layers of that onion, there was one that I really, I got out with some people, so putting care and love into it.

[00:27:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love again, I love that you said that I'm going to just say that after everything you say, and it's interesting what you were talking about.

[00:27:52] Like every once in a while, the person with real resistance, I find that digging deeper means that they are. That they're a [00:28:00] frustrated performer or that they were told that they shouldn't speak or should, or, or don't have talent or skills in the very thing that they want to do, which is be out there with, with the bad cells.

[00:28:11] And so there's this, there's this confidence piece and there's a, there's a vulnerability piece to that, to what I'm hearing you talk about that I would love to explore for a minute. What I know you've already mentioned that. Lots of vulnerability, even though we're playing. And even though we're having a good time, there's, there's a real vulnerability to, to stepping into the limelight.

[00:28:34] Well, and when, when someone does, I'm sure that you've had lots of stories about that, but when they do that, how does, how do you handle it and how does the rest of the group. Transform because it's not just the individual person that transforms. I imagine the rest of the group transforms also when someone is really vulnerable.

[00:28:58] Yeah. [00:29:00]

[00:29:01] Meridith Grundei: That's a really good question. I'm trying to think. Well, I keep going back to that one story. There's a couple of stories that have popped into my head. I think. In those moments for me, I think each situation is different. So I do adapt according to each of the situations. And I might have, for example, a game that follows the exercise that we just did. And for me as the coach, as the facilitator, it's important to know what to let go of for the betterment of the whole.

[00:29:32] And so there have been a couple times where I've had to let go of my agenda. So that I could best meet the group with where they're at. And and I'm not overly transparent about that. I just go with the flow and then we, we spend our attention in that place. And then there's an opportunity for further dialogue.

[00:29:55] And I, I always do feel that it is the way that the rules of engagement that are set up before. Right. [00:30:00] Are helpful in facilitating this as well, because I come from a place of, I want to hear, I want to hear from you what feels true. I want to hear what's working. And then I want to hear where you have curiosities around this feeling or within this exercise that we just had that came up for you.

[00:30:20] The feelings that you have are completely valid and they're yours. There nobody else's so let's all figure this out together and let's find a way to communicate this that feels safe. And so I, I hope that answered your question. Did it?

[00:30:39] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yes, it did. Good. Funny about the show is that the, a lot of the feedback that I get from the shows that wow, these conversations go so deep and we do so.

[00:30:52] Yes, you answered.

[00:30:54] Meridith Grundei: Well, you know, I had another story that popped in my head as it was a disaster story where we, it was a [00:31:00] huge organization and the person who organized it was going through a lot of stuff. And so it was not organized very, very well at all. And I ha I was met with serious resistance and then the, or the, I heard the client was not happy.

[00:31:17] And so in that moment, I literally. Everything rallied the troops and was like, we, because there was six of us on this gig and I was responsible for having brought in like five of the six of us, all of us. I was responsible for bringing in these people. And I was like, we need to shift gears. And we had to do a whole, like, we changed the whole curriculum, the whole thing, everything because of what, what happened.

[00:31:43] And I think that's. You know, I think that's something improv has taught me is to be adaptable, be in the moment, be a problem solver. If you dig in your heels, it's not because you had one thing planned and it's not working out the way that you think it's going to work out. Then [00:32:00] you're going to be in a lot of trees.

[00:32:01] A lot. And so I have learned so often you just got to sometimes say, yep, you're right. This isn't working. And now we're going to figure out a new solution to this. And I am so grateful for that tool.

[00:32:17] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And it's a great tool because if you are not adaptable, you're pushing up a really heavy Boulder

[00:32:22] Meridith Grundei: up there.

[00:32:23] Oh my God. It's some people think they're adaptable. And I got to say, you're not, I'm so sorry, but you're not being there with them all. Yeah.

[00:32:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And that, that can be a tough, a tough nut to swallow. Right. So, so I, you know, it's interesting, we've been talking a lot about courage and talking about confidence and in its relationship to, to the teams that you work with within, within a presentation.

[00:32:48] And I'm wondering if there's something you, you mentioned way earlier that you got drawn to helping people be themselves. In certain kinds of [00:33:00] situations in whether it's corporate or not, but you're, you, you said you were drawn to helping people and I'm wondering what, what draws you to helping people become better at not just the, oh, we're working well as a team, but at public speaking and presenting and being up in front of others and telling their own story, like what, what draws you about that and how do you do that?

[00:33:25] Meridith Grundei: Hmm. Thank you. I have always just maybe it's I w I went to church camp a lot as a kid, and then I ended up becoming a camp counselor and all of these things. And I feel like I just, from a very young age, loved teaching and loved helping other people find their voices. And I feel like, you know, partly it's because, you know, In my childhood.

[00:33:52] And when I was more, in my teenage years, I have a father who had PTSD and I found it tremendously difficult to have a [00:34:00] voice in my family to be heard. And so I think that I am very sensitive to other people who also struggle with being heard in the way they want to. And so I would say that would probably be the core of the root of it.

[00:34:14] And I am a huge advocate of mentorship. I, I love. I just feel like it's so important, especially in this day and age too, to help lift the voices of others, to tell them that yes, they can achieve whatever they want to achieve, that they can, that they can they can overcome adversity. And that just feels, it just lights me up.

[00:34:38] It just, it really does. I guess that's the best answer I have for you is I can't imagine myself doing anything else, but working with people I'm I am quite the empath, like some too, sometimes to a fault right. Where I'm like, I overthink things, [00:35:00] but I really, I do care about people. I really do care about their experiences and making sure that they have a voice in the room and in this world,

[00:35:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And again, I love that.

[00:35:11] See this, I've just kept saying that. And I, and I am not at all surprised that you're an empath and being able to do that, being so able to be sensitive to the place where other people are, what they're feeling, what they're, what they're perhaps thinking all of that. It changes how you relate to them. And if someone.

[00:35:36] A real fear. Like I used to have a phobia, not, not that, not that you can tell now, since I'm all over the place, as far as speaking, but I used to have a real phobia of public speaking from learning English as a fourth language and being terrified. And I, I worked through it. I overcame it and now I'm out there presenting all the time and I'm actually grateful to that time.

[00:35:59] It [00:36:00] helped me understand what other people are going through when they're afraid. And so when you're, when you're coaching someone to improve their skills at presenting, or if they have a presentation that they have to do, and they're terrified, what do you do to help them?

[00:36:19] Meridith Grundei: Yes. Well, I, I first, I always start with where they're at and where they wanna go. And how they want to be seen. And. I am. My philosophy is to give as many tools as I possibly can, because I don't think it's a one size fits all for everybody. I think that with as many tools as I can possibly give them, they can find what works best for them.

[00:36:45] Right? So the tools that I will provide science, our breathing exercises, physical exercises, because the mind body connection is incredibly important. The heart centered mind. The connection [00:37:00] is important. I give them different tools on how to prepare, right? How to practice. Cause there's more than one way to practice.

[00:37:10] There is no set acronym. That's going to teach you how to become an amazing person pro you know rehearsal. Is that even a word? I'm sure it's true today. It is. And so. I just feel that what I have found over time is that people would tell me, this is how you do it. This is how it's done. And then I would go back like, as an actor, I would get all of these, this input on how I was supposed to practice or how I was supposed to memorize my lines or how I was supposed to, how I was supposed to do this, do this, do this.

[00:37:41] And I'd noticed that no one ever gave me permission to sit back and try to figure out what worked for me. Right because everyone has an opinion, everyone's opinion is going to be different from the last person's opinion. That's just the way it is. So you really giving that permission for [00:38:00] people to find what works for them and giving them enough tools to be able to do that.

[00:38:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking it in for a second. Sorry. I like. Take a second and really synthesize what I've just heard.

[00:38:22] the thing, the key for me of what you just said is that it's a two-pronged approach. The, what is that you need to do. And then here are the tools to help you do it. Like what world, what will work for you may not work for anybody else. Right? What works for me may not work for anybody else, but giving permission.

[00:38:44] And not just you giving them permission, but them giving themselves permission to explore, I think is so crucial. And how do you, how do you innovate that? How do you encourage people who might have a phobia? Like, like I used to, [00:39:00] to give themselves permission, not just to play, but to go deep and explore into who they are and.

[00:39:08] What is it that they want to say what their messages?

[00:39:12] Meridith Grundei: Yeah. I'll give you an exact example of one thing. So I have this group called confidently confidently speaking, which is a group coaching on mighty networks thing that I put together and it's only a month old and I do a Q and a, so it's it's four weeks or.

[00:39:30] Every it's for me. Yes. Every month, each week I have a jeez Louise each week, I have a different focus. And on the fourth week of the month, I do a Q and a, and that feels important to me so that people can ask their questions and they can also provide me feedback so that I can better grow the community.

[00:39:48] And what I heard from the last Q and a. Is, there was some struggle with feeling confidence around being in front of the camera and being in front of the camera in communicating your message and your brand is huge. And we're [00:40:00] getting more and more on video. I mean, I think things are going to turn more in that direction than ever before.

[00:40:07] And so I heard all of that and I said, okay, Well, then we're going to do a 30 day video challenge. And if three of you sign up, I'm going to do it with you because it's important that you see that I'm going to go and do this alongside of you. And we're all going to learn together. And then we're going to come together at the end of this 30 day challenge.

[00:40:28] And we're going to share what we learned when we started and where we're at, and we're going to share where we're at now. And I think. That gives people permission to go, wow, my coach is doing this alongside of me because I always have something to learn too. I'm not, I'm not like a master at all of these things.

[00:40:49] You know, I mean, there are masters, but masters in something. Educating themselves and learning. And it also helps people feel like they're not alone in, in [00:41:00] this growth period in their life. And that's why I like the group coaching and that peer to peer support piece of it is because you can really quickly see I'm not the only one that feels this way, that there's still a lot of work to be done.

[00:41:14] And and it's okay that I'm at where I'm at. Right.

[00:41:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting. There's a, there's a wonderful book by Pema Chodron. I love him the children. Oh, yay. I love her work and I love the book title almost more than I love the book. It's start where you are. I just think that's so it's so simple and so profound at the same time that giving yourself permission to start where you are and not judging yourself for.

[00:41:46] Not being further along than you are, you know? So, so have you done the full 30 days yet? How, how have the stories been about the people who have taken the challenge on. We

[00:41:59] Meridith Grundei: [00:42:00] are on day two, we just started, we just started. It's pretty awesome. And there's a, there's a couple people that I was not expecting that totally jumped in and I am so excited.

[00:42:14] I'm so excited that it just gets, I just, I am just thrilled to pieces when people take the risk and I've given them the platform to do so. Like we did A story exercise a couple of weeks ago. And a couple people chose to put their stories on video. I said, you know what? However you need to tell that story, tell it if it's typing it and sending it to us in a document.

[00:42:38] If it's putting it on video, just tell your story. So I think again, it's giving them the permission to use it. There's no right. There's no one way to do something.

[00:42:50] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it's one of my, one of my favorite things on a circle you can get to the center [00:43:00] point from an infinite number of places.

[00:43:02] And that is that to me is says so much and there is no. No, that's not true. I will say that there are wrong ways, like forgetting to turn your camera off yeah. On or off or whatever, you know? Sure.

[00:43:15] Meridith Grundei: But at

[00:43:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: the same time, so yeah. Cause I've done that I've done, I've recorded entire podcast episodes without having turned on the recording equipment.

[00:43:24] So, so that has happened and, and yet it's, it's a Mo it's a teaching and a learning opportunity for you.

[00:43:32] Meridith Grundei: Yes, I was just going to ask, but what did you learn from that? Exactly. What did you do different next time? So yeah, now I have a

[00:43:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: checklist hanging over my desk. It says, these are the things you have to do.

[00:43:41] And again, that that's, that to me is a really important piece of what you're doing is that you don't have to be perfect. You have to be where you are, you know, wherever you are and if you can stretch yourself. That's great. So, so within that, is there a place that someone can go to, to go? [00:44:00] I want to learn from.

[00:44:02] Where should they go to do that? To find.

[00:44:06] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, thank you for asking that question. I can be found in a few places. One is Grund di coaching.com and that's G R U N as in Nancy, D as in dog, E i.com. Meredith. Yeah, granddad coaching.com. And then. Confidently speaking.club, it's hosted on mighty networks.

[00:44:28] So you could also look through mighty networks. And then I have my performance. I still am a performer on Meredith grand di.com. And my name is spelled with two eyes. It's M E R I D I T H grandad.com. And then of course, LinkedIn and all the socials. I'm not on Facebook though. I got off base. What's driving me batty.

[00:44:48] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I hear you. That that is one of those things and there's, I could keep you here for the next six hours. I know. I love

[00:44:57] Meridith Grundei: talking to you. It's so much fun. You ask me your [00:45:00] questions. I'm like, I love your question. And I'm like, did I answer it? I hope I answered it. You're

[00:45:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: fabulous. Yes, you absolutely have.

[00:45:09] There's there's a couple more questions. If you have time. First of all, I was honored to be on your podcast recently. So much fun. So I'm really glad that you were able to come and join me here on, on, in an innovative mindset. So I'm, the podcast is called. Are you waiting for permission that you cohost with a wonderful gentleman named Joseph Bennett?

[00:45:31] And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what the podcast is and what permission people might be waiting for?

[00:45:41] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, the, so the podcast is. Inspired by Joseph on a Sunday. I think about four months ago, it's only four months old and the crazy wow. He said he woke up and he's like, I want to do a podcast with Meredith.

[00:45:56] And so he called me and I said, sure, let's do a podcast. [00:46:00] And we came up with this title. Are you waiting for permission? Joseph, I think was reading a book and it was a line in a book and I said, perfect. This is that. Yes. And it is intended for creatives and artists who. Stopped waiting for permission.

[00:46:17] And so they started giving themselves permission to live the life that they want and to create the work that they want and to follow their dreams. And we, our intention with the podcast is we really want our listeners. To see that there are multiple ways that they can to give themselves permission to follow their dreams.

[00:46:41] And we even have one listener who quit her job. She said, I listened to your podcast. And that was it. I had this email sitting in the inbox for two years and I finally sent it and I quit my job that I was miserable at. Wow. And. That, that was really, and we, of course, we had to interview her on [00:47:00] our podcast and we did, and that will be released in the next few weeks.

[00:47:03] But that is our, that is our hope with the podcast is to keep encouraging people, to take leaps of faith, to take risk and to give themselves permission. And through that, we give resources, we answer questions now for people on the podcast as well. And we invite. You know, guests like yourself who are dynamic humans that have also carved a path.

[00:47:27] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And it's a fabulous podcast. If you're not listening, you should go super subscribe, just like right now. And that's that? No, it is. I enjoy it. I enjoy it because. It's like you called yourself a multi-passionate person, but also the guests tend to be multi-passionate and tend to want to explore different avenues.

[00:47:50] And I am about, I am. Multi-passionate, doesn't begin to cover all of that, that I try to do. And I've [00:48:00] decided for myself that it's not do what you love for me. Love what you're doing while you're doing it. And that's, that's, that's, that's my solution to that whole conundrum. And so I'm, I'm really glad that you, that you both started this show because I find that I'm learning and I'm having a good time.

[00:48:22] And often you, you get podcasts where you have one or the other maybe, but not both. And yours. Yours does both, which I think is great. And I think that's what you're doing with the work that you're doing is that people. Yes, you're, you're calling on them to be vulnerable and have, and have courage, and you're giving them a space to play and explore who they are.

[00:48:45] And I think that's amazing. So thank you so much for doing the work that you're doing. I really it's necessary in this world, so I'm really glad you're out there doing. Yeah, no,

[00:48:53] Meridith Grundei: thank you.

[00:48:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: So Meredith I have one last question and by the way, all of the, all of the. [00:49:00] Social media and all of the ways to contact you will be in the show notes as well, but people learn differently.

[00:49:05] So I like to give both both ways of seeing or multiple ways of seeing the information or hearing the information. And I have one last question that I ask everybody who comes on the show and FIA, it's a silly question, but I find that it can yield some, some profound answers. So the question is this.

[00:49:24] If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see. What would you say?

[00:49:31] Meridith Grundei: Just

[00:49:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: breathe.

[00:49:37] I love that. I love that. So that's a great what a great answer. Yes. So important. So important. I, I like to say that you can live. Three weeks without food, you can last three days without water, but you can only last three minutes without air. So is crucial,

[00:49:54] Meridith Grundei: crucial. It is so crucial and we don't do it enough.

[00:49:59] We hold our [00:50:00] breath so

[00:50:01] Izolda Trakhtenberg: much. Yeah. And, and one of the things that's most interesting to me about the theater that I was an English drama major in college. And one of the things that was most interesting to me was when I first started really learning. How to use breath to perform, to, to play. I play violin.

[00:50:22] So breathing is not, it's not a woodwind or brass instrument or whatever, but at the same time breathing as part of singing, breathing is part of doing anything, gives yourself space as well as being nourishing for your, for your body and your mind and your spirit. So I'm so grateful that you said that.

[00:50:42] What a wonder. Way of looking at it. Meredith I'm super grateful that you took the time to be on the show. I thank you so much for being.

[00:50:51] Meridith Grundei: Oh, thank you so much for having me as old. I have, I, this has been a wonderful conversation, so thank you. And I hope you'll come back. Oh, I will [00:51:00] hope you come back to our podcast too.

[00:51:01] I'd be delighted.

[00:51:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: So we started the episode giggling and we're finishing again.

[00:51:07] Meridith Grundei: Yes. I love it. Big fan. I love it. I love it.

[00:51:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: You have coming to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. This has been a fabulous conversation with Meredith grandad, and I hope that you will check out both confidently speaking.

[00:51:24] And are you waiting for permission and all the other incredible work that Meredith is doing? If you're enjoying these episodes, please do me a favor rate and review the show. I'd love to hear from you about what you're thinking about the show where it's going. Very soon on July. No, actually this, this air is way after we've already celebrated our 400th episode.

[00:51:43] Can you believe a hundred episodes? Amazing. I'm super good. Yeah, it's exciting. So I hope that you're enjoying the show and I will remind you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.[00:52:00]

[00:52:02] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. If you'd like to be a sponsor of the show. I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[00:52:20] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.

 

* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I’ll get a small commission. And please remember, I’ll never recommend a product or service I don’t absolutely love!

 

How to Find the Poignant Story with Vanishing Postcards Host, Evan Stern

Vanishing Postcards host and storyteller Evan Stern on the importance of telling the stories from the places that are off the interstate.

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset

If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

 

Born during the driving rainstorm that inspired Stevie Ray Vaughan to record the classic “Texas Flood,” Evan Stern is one of a proud few who can claim Austin as his legitimate hometown. Having caught the performing bug early on, he first gained attention at age 11 with a second-place finish in Austin’s famed O. Henry Pun Off, and has since graced the stages of New York’s Carnegie Hall and Lincoln Center. A graduate of Sarah Lawrence College and the British American Drama Academy, whether acting Shakespeare, or charming audiences with the turn of a Cole Porter phrase, Evan is first and foremost a storyteller, with a sincere love and appreciation for history, travel and the art of raconteurship. He is now honored to return to Texas for the first season of Vanishing Postcards, an ambitious project that represents a synthesis of these passions through the form of audio essay.

Vanishing Postcards is a documentary travelogue in which listeners are invited on a road trip exploring the hidden dives, traditions, and frequently threatened histories that can be discovered by exiting the interstates. Named one of the Best Podcasts of 2021 by Digital Trends.

Connect with Evan

IG - @vanishing_postcards

IG - @evansternnyc

Podcast- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/vanishing-postcards/id1544610020

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Evan Stern: It's hard for me to really latch on one specific lesson that I have gained, but I do believe that. Everybody wants, ultimately wants to be heard.

[00:00:18] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:39] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset to check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let's get to the show.

[00:00:58] Yeah.[00:01:00]

[00:01:02] Hey there. And welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm your host, and I'm super thrilled that you're here. I'm also really excited and thrilled to talk about and meet this week's guest. Listen to this. Evan stern was born during the driving rainstorm that inspired Stevie Ray Vaughn to record the class.

[00:01:22] Texas flood. I love that Evan stern is one of a proud few who can claim Austin. S's legitimate hometown that's the town is growing. So, wow. That's amazing how few people probably are from there. Having caught the performing bug early on. He first gained attention at age 11 with a second place finish in Austin's famed.

[00:01:43] Oh, Henry punt off. And it says grace, the stages of new York's Carnegie hall and Lincoln center, a graduate of Sarah Lawrence college. American drama academy. Wow. Whether acting Shakespeare or charming audiences with the turn of a Cole Porter phrase, Evan is first and foremost, a storyteller, and [00:02:00] you know how close that is to my heart.

[00:02:02] He's got a sincere love and appreciation for history travel and the art of a wreck on tour ship. He's now honored to return to Texas for the first season of vanishing postcards and ambitious project that represents a synthesis of these passions through the form of audio essay. Vanishing postcards is a documentary travel log in which listeners are invited on a road trip, exploring the hidden dives, traditions, and frequently threatened histories that can be discovered by exiting the interstates named one of the best podcasts of 2021 by digital trends, evidence here to talk about banishing postcards and everything else.

[00:02:37] So amazing that he's doing Evan. Thank you so much for being there. Show welcome.

[00:02:41] Evan Stern: Thank you so much for having me. It's a great honor. Oh,

[00:02:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: you're very sweet. So I I'm, this is such an exciting thing. Delving into the history of Texas. First of all, into the, into the storytellers of Texas into the dives and the honky-tonks of Texas as a travel log.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] But as a podcast, what, what inspired you to do this? What inspired you to go? You know what? I'm going to create this travel log. And I'm going to make it about my home state. What happened that you went, yes, I want to do this.

[00:03:13] Evan Stern: Well, it was, it, it wasn't as if there was a lightning bolt of inspiration. It was a very kind of slow gradual process.

[00:03:21] Um, and, and you told me, you know, a few years ago that right now I'd be working on a podcast. Um, you know, I might've said really. Um, but like, like so many though, I am one of those people who over the last 10 years just absolutely fell in love. Podcasting, um, and the, um, audio medium of storytelling, I think kind of the gateway drug for me, um, was years ago, I started listening to the moth, you know, just people getting up and telling personal stories without notes.

[00:03:52] I, I just absolutely loved it. Um, then you start discovering, um, other programs, you know, like the, the kitchen [00:04:00] sisters and, and, and, and there's, you know, different, different stuff. I mean, there, there's a wonderful podcast about classic Hollywood called you must remember this. There's one about country music called cocaine and rhinestones, um, and around, and, you know, not too long ago as well.

[00:04:18] Um, you know, the YouTube algorithm, uh, kept suggesting for whatever reason that I watched these, uh, travel blog, travel blog videos, and in watching them, I would never really see the way that I enjoy traveling represented. Um, I mean, certainly it's not always the case, but I think more often than not, when you, when you see videos of that nature, it's much less about the places themselves.

[00:04:45] It's much more about the people saying, oh, look at me and how cute I am in this place. Um, and I just kind of gradually started thinking, you know, I wonder if there is something that, uh, that, that I can do. [00:05:00] Um, and initially I had this grand idea. That I wanted to do a show that was going to be a musical travel log of Mexico.

[00:05:09] Um, you know, I'm, I'm immersed in the gig economy in New York, and I always try my best to get away January February just to, to escape the, the bitter cold of the winter. And, um, you know, Mexico is my happy place. It's, it's cheap, it's warm. Um, and so I initially had this idea that I was going to go, uh, kind of explore, use music as a portal to exploring the cultural, regional history of Mexico.

[00:05:36] I was going to go to Vera Cruz that was going to where the tradition of, you know, and one a Watteau and, um, you know, in Monterey and the north. And I went so far as to, uh, produce a pilot episode, um, in Marietta Yucatan, um, about the tradition of the trophies that they have there. And it's one thing to, you know, when you're running an event, [00:06:00] Um, you know, you're thinking to yourself, oh my goodness, this is just going to be the best thing ever.

[00:06:05] This is going to be amazing. And then you sit down and you listen to what you have spent months working on and you go, oh my goodness, I have missed the mark. So terribly. Um, it was a perfect lesson in show. Don't tell, I mean, w what happened was, is I talked all about the city of Marietta. It's about its history, this, that, and the other, but you didn't actually, um, when, when you were listening to it, I also learned pretty quickly that the, the human voice has such terrific color, shade, and nuance to it.

[00:06:37] That if you have an actor come in, um, to a dub over, uh, you know, what was said in English, you just, you just lose so much. Um, and I realized pretty quickly that I needed to learn much more about audio production before tackling a project of that ambitious nature. And so I started thinking to myself, well, you know what.

[00:06:59] Might [00:07:00] not be as exotic as Mexico, but if there's one thing I know it's that Texas people love to talk and they tell great stories. So in January of 2020, um, grab some equipments. Um, and I went back down to Texas to see what I could do. Um, really, it was just, uh, going to be kind of an experiment. Um, but it very quickly evolved into vanishing postcards.

[00:07:26] Um, what happened was, is I took a look at what I was doing, um, and I realized that each episode was a snapshot of a different place. And if there was a thing that the place has had in common it's that you didn't know how much longer a lot of them were going to be around or that they were representative of broader cultural histories or traditions that.

[00:07:52] You know, you, you just, they're kind of rare, um, in, in this kind of fast paced rapidly homogenizing [00:08:00] world. Um, and, um, since then it, it became, it it's, it's been an incredibly rewarding journey. Um, you know, as I maybe referenced earlier in, in many ways, it is kind of a 180 from a lot of the work I've previously done at the, at the same time.

[00:08:17] Um, I feel that all of that work really kind of beautifully prepared me for it. Um, and having embarked on this journey, um, I ended up covering like about 1500 miles of, of Texas and, um, having embarked on this journey as a solo traveler, um, I'm now really grateful that the series is out in the world. Um, and I can invite, uh, you know, people like you and listeners really around the world, uh, to, to join me now and experience, uh, everything that I got to do.

[00:08:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. That's amazing. And it's incredible to me, what you just said about how you took everything that you had learned up until that [00:09:00] point and reframed it and repurposed it almost into this, this way of looking at your home state. And yet it is both technical and it takes a lot of artistry. And I'm wondering what, in, as part of, as part of doing this project, what did you learn?

[00:09:21] What was the thing that stood out for you that you learned maybe about yourself or about the people in your state or about the places? What was the biggest thing you learned and how did it change you?

[00:09:31] Evan Stern: Well, there's a lot, I mean, it's hard to, for me to really latch on one specific lesson that I have gained.

[00:09:38] Um, but I do believe that. Everybody wants, ultimately wants to be heard. They, they really do. Um, and I mean, people often ask me, you know, w w w w when I first started doing this, it was, it was in January, 2020. It was before the pandemic hit. Obviously the pandemic changed, um, a [00:10:00] lot of what I could do. Um, but I was really the first episodes that you'll hear in the series.

[00:10:05] I was really just kind of showing up at these places completely unannounced. Um, they really had no idea, um, that I was going to be there. Um, and it, it, people ask me, you know, did you meet resistance? We'll we'll really know. Um, everyone was, was intrigued. And for the most part, people were so honored that, you know, someone like me was taking an interest in their work, their place, uh, what they were doing.

[00:10:35] Um, and I don't think too, I mean, Someone recently asked me too, that, that when they, you know, listen to the, to the series, you know, that, you know, they, they feel as if I'm able to, you know, extract these, these stories. And they said, well, how, how do you, how do you make this magic happen? And, well, the truth is is that you, you can't, um, there is nothing that you can do to you.

[00:10:59] You never [00:11:00] really know what is is going to happen. Um, but the stories, if you just, if you start talking to people, um, you approach them with respect, empathy, and a willingness to listen. Um, and you ask them specific questions. Um, you just, you, you never know what you're going to. Um, and something that I tell anyone who's maybe interested in doing something like this.

[00:11:29] Um, I will say that if you do want to, you know, get stories, you do want to ask people specific questions. Um, I would never go up to someone and just say, tell me about yourself. Um, I might say, um, before we get started, could you maybe describe for me your childhood home, you know, something like that. And, um, that really kind of opens up the door and we just kind of take things from there.

[00:11:51] Yeah.

[00:11:56] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sorry. I'm taking all of that in. I like to take a pause to make sure [00:12:00] that I've, that I've understood everything. One of the things that I heard you say that really struck a chord with me was that it's about listening. And the other thing of course was asking those specific questions and. Were there any, and if so, what are they techniques that you use specifically as a, as a performer to help you with that part of it?

[00:12:26] Evan Stern: Well, you know, I honestly, I think that, um, as I said so much of my experience, um, leading PR prepared me in, in leading up to this, um, and a big job that I've had for a number of years here in the city is it's a very, it's a very strange job. Um, I work as a, what is called a standardized patient, um, that is the medical schools, programs, hire actors to facilitate simulations [00:13:00] for, uh, medical interns and students.

[00:13:03] Um, I have played all sorts of different cases. You'd never believe. I mean, they've had to diagnose me. I've been the graphic designer they've had to diagnose with cancer. Um, I have, uh, you know, I, I I've been the 19 year old crack addict who suffered a panic attack. You name it. I've I've had it. Um, but I have learned so much in, in working with these students in terms of how they build rapport and what works and what doesn't.

[00:13:34] Um, I think it's amazing. How many people, uh, it can be applied to interview situations, whatever, um, you know, you give someone a microphone. Sometimes they just kind of become a completely different person. You know, they think that every question, you know, has to be probing and every question, you know, has to have weight, but you really just have to remember how you talk to people in your [00:14:00] everyday life.

[00:14:02] You know, how do you introduce yourself to a stranger? Um, you know, you're just going to start talking to people, um, and you know, you, you read their body language and you, you really just it's about establishing trust. Um, and it, and I feel that people understand that. I don't think of myself as a journalist.

[00:14:30] Um, I'll be the first to say that I think of myself as more of an essayist. I really think that a journalist job is to investigate a journalist job is to probe. I'm not really there to do that. I'm really there just to, you know, kind of have a conversation and, and enjoy the ride and see where that ride takes.

[00:14:49] You know, I'm not, if someone tells me a tall tale, um, I'm not going to fact check that story. Um, but I think that people recognize [00:15:00] that. Um, and you know, I just think that, um, just, just really, like I said, just, just remembering how we relate to one another, uh, every day is, is just crucial.

[00:15:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, you're talking. I mean, as you're talking, I'm going, he's, he's talking about integrity and authenticity, and those words are abandoned about aura a lot nowadays, but it really, it seems to me that that's, that that's what you, that, that that's what, what you were using, you know, using who you, who you were authentically to meet these people.

[00:15:37] And I know you said that people asked you if you, if you met resistance, I'm wondering what was the most wild story you heard?

[00:15:46] Evan Stern: Goodness. Oh, man, there, there were, there was, uh, so, so there's this teeny town called Castile, Texas that sits on the Western edge of the, uh, [00:16:00] the hill country. It's absolutely beautiful, very isolated.

[00:16:04] The town has a population of six and, um, I don't even know if he's really there, mayor, I don't know if they actually have a mayor, but you know, the, the big local personality is Randy Love. Festi, uh, he's the owner of the Castille store. Um, I'll be releasing his episode in a, in a few weeks. Um, but, uh, when I was there, he told me that, uh, he had, uh, he, he, he, he took a trip to Cabo San Lucas with his girlfriend.

[00:16:36] Uh, they saw this, uh, chicken in a bar and he said, you know what, I need a chicken for the store. So, um, you know, he bought this, uh, roof. For the store. And, um, he had this, uh, Billy Bass that was like, you know, one of those electronic things, you know, you clap your hands in the best wiggles. Well, um, one day as he tells [00:17:00] me, he looks over and, um, this rooster is having sexual relations with that bass.

[00:17:05] So this thing he tells me became this huge sensation where people from all over the place started coming to town to see his rooster perform, you know, 12 times a day. And he was able to, uh, make hundreds of thousands of dollars in real estate deals that he was able to sell to the people who came through the store because of that rooster.

[00:17:27] And then he proudly led me into the store where he showed me this. He, you know, he, he called the rooster cockroach. Yeah, and the rooster died. And after the rooster died, he had that. He took him to the taxidermists and, um, had him, uh, mounted and placed on top of his good friend, Billy the bass. And I've seen a lot of taxidermy in my day.

[00:17:51] I don't think I have ever seen a stuffed rooster and I have certainly never seen a row stuffed rooster on top of a Billy Bass. I'll [00:18:00] tell you that right now.

[00:18:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. That is. Tall tale for sure.

[00:18:10] Oh my goodness. I uh, wow. Yeah, yeah. I don't even, I'm like, whatever. How do I follow that up? I think, I don't

[00:18:21] know. I did. I did, because you know, the thing, the thing about this is that anytime we tell stories or listen to stories, I think we're changed by them even if, even if it's, oh, that's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Your experience of life is, is, is changed in some way or another. So I guess I'm wondering, how have you been changed by doing this project?

[00:18:45] Evan Stern: Well, It's in many ways, it's been a dive into the unknown, as I said, it's, it's very, it was all very new for me in the beginning. Um, I had to do a lot of learning and [00:19:00] I re I really had to put myself out there. Um, it definitely, um, tested the boundaries of my comfort, um, in a lot of ways. Um, you know, you really just have to, as I said earlier, you have to go up out there and just start talking to people.

[00:19:16] Um, and I usually found that I was way more nervous than the people I was talking to. And, um, I was talking to someone else about this, um, experience. Someone said, and, you know, she asked me, she was like, well, how do you, where does that confidence come from? Where do you get that confidence? And I said, well, you know what?

[00:19:36] I, I, I think I've discovered that confidence is kind of overrated. Um, because you can't just read a book or, you know, attend a three-day workshop, whatever, and magically have confidence. It just doesn't happen that way. Confidence happens as a result of experience. Um, it happens as a result of mistakes. Um, and, [00:20:00] um, I think.

[00:20:02] I heard somewhere that, you know, what heroic act doesn't involve, just huge levels of vulnerability. Um, and so I, I think I have definitely grown in confidence as a result of all of this, but that really, uh, just is a by-product of, of the work itself and everything that, you know, has been asked of me to, to rise to this challenge

[00:20:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: and that in itself, the, the skills you've built, the ideas that you've gotten and, and brought to fruition is a big part of the change I would imagine. And I love, I'd love to discuss a little bit as you talk about this, what is the process? What was the creative process that goes in to making an episode to crafting vanishing posts?

[00:20:59] Evan Stern: Absolutely. [00:21:00] So each, you know, obviously I do have each episode does have a subject that I am interested in delving into. Um, there are people that I want to meet, just so you know, so basically, um, a bit more about the show itself for, for those listening out there. So essentially listeners are invited to join me on a road trip.

[00:21:23] And so each episode is produced in documentary style. So, you know, you're going to hear a lot of, it's not, you know, interview, it's not talk show, you're going to hear a lot of different voices. Um, you're going to hear some of my narration, um, and I really work hard to make it an immersive listening experience for those who, who are hearing the episodes.

[00:21:49] Um, but basically the, the way that I constructed is, um, there are. And, uh, as I said, you know, each episode, there are certain issues that, that I'm looking at. [00:22:00] Um, and so I just go, I, I talk to people, um, and I assemble a number of interviews at the, at the places that I go to. Um, you know, I try to talk to the, uh, the owners.

[00:22:14] I try to talk to the workers. I try to talk to the people who go to these places. Um, you're going to ask all of those people different questions. Um, but you're also, I think there, you know, you also want to, there are also some specific questions that I will ask all of them. Um, and then what I do is I, I come back home and I listened to all of the, um, I listened to all of the interviews and I extract, you know, the, the gold from each person I speak with, you know, I could very well talk to someone for like an hour out of that hour conversation.

[00:22:51] I might just take, you know, Three minutes worth of, of nuggets or whatnot. Um, and then I, you know, I, I look at [00:23:00] everything that I have and I stepped back and I, I just kind of look for it, you know, that, what, what, what, what, what are the commonalities, what, what do people keep coming back to, you know, are there opposing views?

[00:23:15] Um, and from there, I, I just kind of take these nuggets and I weave together a story out of all of that. Um, I really let my subjects kind of guide the way that the, the story moves and goes. Um, the, the most challenging job for me is in the writing process of pasting it all together. Um, everything has to have I learned, you know, for years, I, you know, I've, I've.

[00:23:45] Did a lot of performing in the cabaret world. Um, and you know, even if you're just putting together a show, that's, that's really kind of, you know, a series of songs, what is said in between those songs is every bit as [00:24:00] important as the songs themselves and everything has to have architecture and a beginning, middle and an end.

[00:24:06] Um, so the, the greatest challenge for me is about how I can link everything together, um, in the narration as part of a cohesive whole, um, you know, I think, but each episode, uh, you know, I, I never, totally, there are always things that I want to focus on, but you just never totally know where it's going to go.

[00:24:27] And before each one, um, I always ask my God, is this going to work? Um, but some so far it's worked out okay,

[00:24:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That moment of, oh, what if this is going to be a complete disaster? I know it well. Um, and it's, I'm so fascinated by what you're saying with respect to the storytelling, the beginning, middle and end, and the sort of the patter between songs in, in, in a cabaret show, all of, all of those things, those elements [00:25:00] of storytelling, what do you think is the result?

[00:25:06] What is the most crucial thing to put into it? And what is the result? How do you, when do you feel like yes, it has worked as opposed to, oh, it's going to be a disaster.

[00:25:16] Evan Stern: Well, as I said earlier, again, the most important thing is, is show don't tell, um, and what, what, what is always best for me is I try not to.

[00:25:34] I try not to express too much in the way of, of opinion. Um, what, what is really magical though, is just when you have, when you're talking to someone and, you know, whether they realize it or not, they, they share and tell a story that just kind of beautifully encapsulates everything, you know, that, that just really explains the issue [00:26:00] without it, you know, at that point, the work for you is, is really done.

[00:26:05] Um, but you know, kind of an example of, of something that, you know, I, I did that, that was a challenge, um, was, you know, I have an episode that's coming out in a bit where. I took a trip first to, to Brownsville, Texas, where I spoke with this man who is the last, uh, cook in the United States who was allowed to serve a barbacoa cooked barbacoa, as it was meant to be prepared, which means it's, it's cooked in a pit under the ground.

[00:26:37] Um, and that's what he does. He, he, he's serving barbacoa out of what had been his childhood home. Um, there's a pit out back that's in the ground and, you know, that's where he cooks it. The reason that he's allowed to do it is because his father started it in 1956 and it's been going on for this long. And so I focused on him and I did a segment on him.

[00:26:57] And then I went to San [00:27:00] Antonio and I, um, you know, met a cook there who, you know, talked about cooking up puffy tacos. And, um, it ended up, you know, she, her story went in a completely different direction. Um, I mean, her mother. Started this business out of, uh, out of a garage because it was her last hope. Um, she was an incredible woman, a revered figure in San Antonio, um, who, you know, was shockingly murdered.

[00:27:28] Um, and she talked all about that and, and, and everything. And, and then, and how she like found forgiveness and was being able to move beyond and, you know, everything that her, how her mother prepared her and how her mother expressed love through, through cooking. And, um, I realized that, you know, on, on the surface, you know, these two stories, yes, they were about cooking, but they were very, very different.

[00:27:55] But what, what is it that they had in common? I realized that, you know, [00:28:00] through their cooking, they were both expressing love. And for me, and that's how I brought the two together.

[00:28:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm still thinking, sorry, it's a beautiful, uh, yeah. That notion of, um, cooking and, and healing through cooking and expressing love through cooking, but also expressing love for, I guess, the, the heritage and the inspiration for what they did is so important. And I'm wondering if you have someone or figures or people in, in your world.

[00:28:45] Hoo hoo hoo. Does that for you? Who inspired you to do this? And if so, is it that same love, it sounds weird to say love connection, but is that connection one of love and respect? What [00:29:00] is it about the people or the images or, or the ideas that inspired you that comes from that place?

[00:29:11] Oh, no you're

[00:29:11] Evan Stern: thinking. Oh, no, of course, absolutely. I mean,

[00:29:20] There. I mean, who can you say, can you just rephrase the question in a simple, in a simple one sentence in a simple one sentence for me? Can you say, say what you're getting at

[00:29:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: again here? Sure. I'm just wondering who inspired you throughout the journey? Are there any public figures or is there anybody in Texas?

[00:29:37] Are there any people who made you go, ah, this is what I want. Well,

[00:29:41] Evan Stern: what I can say is that if, if there is a bar that I am always working towards, you know, never, never met him personally. Um, but I am old enough to remember growing up on CVS. There was a man by the name of Charles Kuralt who would travel the [00:30:00] country and he would really just kind of share good news is, is what he was, is what he was doing.

[00:30:07] And he. He, he never expressed anything in, in terms of, in, in, in showing these stories, he was able to present, you know, the best of people without really expressing anything in the way of judgment. And there are many situations throughout this process where I have asked myself, what would Charles Kuralt do?

[00:30:32] Hmm. Um, and you know, I, I don't mean to, I'm not trying to compare myself to Charles Caroll. Um, in the least, you know, I have much more work to do, you know, before I feel like I can get people called him the Walt Whitman of American television. Um, but I can tell you that that is the bar that I am always working towards.

[00:30:56] Um, and the greatest compliments that I have received, [00:31:00] um, you know, or when people have heard this series and said, oh, you know what, this reminds me of Charles Perrault.

[00:31:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's lovely. And I remember Charles Caroll also on like, uh, CBS Sunday morning or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. His stories were all, you know, when, uh, you were mentioning the idea of love and heart.

[00:31:20] That's what I remember thinking about his stories was that they were always full of such quiet soul and heart. They didn't have to be huge stories, but they were, they always left me feeling better and always gave me something to think about. Well, yeah,

[00:31:38] Evan Stern: go on. Go on. No, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, and I do believe that there is a great void of that when you look at our media landscape right now, and th there, there really is.

[00:31:48] Um, we live in a horribly polarized, horribly divided age. Um, I, I do not believe that anything that we have lived through over the [00:32:00] last five, six years should be normalized. I will be the first to say that, um, But I do believe that, you know, the, the issues that we are wrestling with right now as a nation, uh, in the divisions that we're dealing with in terms of politics and race are completely unsustainable.

[00:32:20] But at the same time, I do think that there is more that we have in common than what we've realized. And I do think that culture right now is one of those rare areas of agreement. And what this show is about celebrating is that culture, um, you know, culture provides opportunity for shared experiences and you know, that that's really kind of what I'm getting at with, with all of this.

[00:32:53] Um, and, and additionally too, I mean, how can we expect for people in [00:33:00] our rural communities to appreciate what is good and beautiful about places like New York city or San Francisco, or even Austin for that matter, if we cannot appreciate what is good and beautiful about them,

[00:33:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: from what you just said, it feels like there's a sort of a, through the looking glass aspect to your show that you're inviting people to go on a journey with you to, to see these places or to listen to these, to these stories and to hear about them. When you do that, when you're in that space of inviting people on a journey, how do you decide which stories are the ones that are important to tell.

[00:33:52] Evan Stern: Well, something that's important to me. Is that so often when we think about art and [00:34:00] culture, I mean, we think about palaces of civilization, like the mat, the British museum, the, the loop, but the truth is that art and culture is everywhere. And oftentimes some of the best of it comes from places that you're just not going to read about in glossy magazines.

[00:34:20] You're not going to see about these places on Instagram. And it's really about exploring that, you know, Detroit gave us Motown, Clarksdale, Mississippi gave us the blues. Um, and, and for me, it's really kind of about seeking these, these places out. You know, if you read a, you know, if you read like a tourist guide book about Texas, they're going to tell you to go to the Alamo.

[00:34:49] They're going to tell you to go to the river walk, do this, do that. Um, There's so much more to that. I mean, I had the [00:35:00] great honor of visiting a town called San Benito, um, which is about, you know, 15, 18 miles north of the border. Um, and you know, th this is, you know, if you look at this country, um, you know, the real Grandy valley, um, is just statistically, one of the, the poor regions, you know, there's been a lot.

[00:35:21] Um, you know, uh, D population, you know, flight, whatnot, but this town of San Benito, um, was responsible for giving birth to the movement of music. Um, which is an incredible genre. Basically what happened is the, uh, the Mexican laborers down in south Texas, um, heard the music that was brought to the area by the checks, the Germans, they heard the Pocus, they heard the accordions, um, and they, they took that accordion music.

[00:35:51] They took those polkas and they added their own lyrics and Spanish to them. They threw in guitar and they created this whole entire genre [00:36:00] of music. And, um, w w the story there is, is, is I knew that I wanted to. To do a piece, you know, on the border, you hear about the border a lot, um, in the news right now, but what is always lost in the noise surrounding all of that is the culture and the people who actually exist there.

[00:36:19] Um, and I thought that kahuna really kind of provided a terrific, uh, opportunity just to explore kind of the beautiful th the, the beauty that exists there. And I heard that there was this museum in this town called the Texas kahuna music hall of fame. So I sent a message on Facebook. Um, I I'd heard that, uh, it was founded and owned by a man by the name of Ray Abila.

[00:36:42] And a little while later, I got a call from his son, turned out, uh, that Mr. Abila, his father had died about seven months prior, but that if I wanted to go, um, visit the museum, that they would be honored to have me and I showed up. This museum, the small town in [00:37:00] Texas and the entire family was there because they wanted for me to know about their father.

[00:37:07] Um, they wanted me to know about Cancun . Um, they found a, the president of a record label who specializes in this music so that he could be there with us too. And they had such pride and joy in, in sharing. And an honor that someone took the time to visit a place like, like San Benito. Um, it is an experience I will always treasure and never forget.

[00:37:34] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That is so lovely. And I'm so glad that you got to tell that to, to tell that story, to show, to show, to sort of open the window, if you will, into San Benito and into this music. And I'm wondering something, this is a little off topic, but do you know who Alan Lomax was? I

[00:37:54] Evan Stern: have heard the name. Um, please refresh my memory.

[00:37:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sure, sure. So he was an [00:38:00] ethnomusicologist and what he did with his whole career for 50 years, he traveled the world and he recorded music. And when video came along, video of mew, indigenous music, wherever he was, he tried to find the music from that place. And, uh, and there, when I worked at the national geographic site in many moons ago, he came over and he was like, Hey, I would love to put together a library that didn't happen with the geographic, but his daughter, after his death put up a website and there is a website that you can go and, uh, sort of see the music from anywhere.

[00:38:35] You can hear the music from anywhere, you just type it in. And if it's there, if they got a recording of it, you'll be able to hear it. And so I'm wondering for posterity, what is your. W w w this library, if you will, that you're creating this travel log that you're creating in my mind, Alan Lomax, his version of it is providing us access to music from all [00:39:00] over the world that is, that could be lost.

[00:39:03] And I'm wondering, what do you, what is your feeling about that with the stories that you're telling you mentioned earlier that these that's, their survival is not certain the different traditions and the, and even the, the, you know, the honky-tonks the places themselves, what are you going for here? What is your long-term vision for vanishing postcard?

[00:39:24] Evan Stern: Well, so yes, so I'm collecting oral history and I, I think it is really important that we do have a record of it. Um, I think in some ways, uh, this is something perhaps of a bit of a call to arms. Um, you know, I, I want to say it's about shining a light on, you know, what is, what is still, what is still there.

[00:39:47] Um, but we can still go to, but as I said, you know, some of this stuff might not be around for too much longer, so it's, it's really kind of about drawing attention to it so that we can preserve it. Um, you know, I look at my [00:40:00] hometown of Austin. Texas as a whole. Um, it is, it is changing at rapid pace. I don't think that change is something to be feared.

[00:40:09] Um, in, in many ways I think it is something that, um, should be embraced, but we have to change and grow responsibly. Um, we have to ask, you know, why, w w what is it that people like about Austin? What is it about Texas that draws people there? Why do people keep coming? Um, and I do think that it is it's culture, and I believe that we, as a society need to do a lot more to protect the culture that surrounds us.

[00:40:36] I mean, th th most of the places that I spotlight are small businesses and. You know, whenever a small business closes that, you know, has a great history behind it or fondness to it, you'll have all of these people come out of the woodwork saying, oh my goodness, this is horrible. This is the worst thing ever.

[00:40:54] But my question always is, well, when was the last time you, you actually went there? Um, [00:41:00] I mean, it's really exhausting. It's a lot of hard work, um, to, to keep these places going. And if people get tired or they aren't making ends meet you, you can't blame them. Um, and this is an issue that you see happening in New York.

[00:41:14] It's an issue you see happening in Texas, California, London, name it it's happening. Um, and so I do think that. You know, th th hopefully this series kind of makes people think, uh, a bit more about that. Um, and long-term, it is my hope, uh, that I can expand the map beyond Texas because, um, the, the issues that I feel are explored in this series are truly universal.

[00:41:44] In fact, if you look at the analytics, um, most people tuning in and listening right now are actually listening from outside of Texas. Um, and so I think it's important to, uh, you know, I want to expand the map [00:42:00] and, um, you know, if I can do a part to draw attention to, you know, the, the, the beauty of a meal, American culture that surrounds us, um, you know, that's kind of what my goal is.

[00:42:16] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And it's a great goal. And I'm so glad that you said that you eventually, cause that was going to be, my next question was, do you want to take it outside of Texas? And I mean, Texas covering Texas can be a lifetime's work cause it's such a big place with such a varied set of, of uh, peoples and cultures.

[00:42:32] And yet I love the notion of, of that, what you said, finding those small businesses, finding those people, who aren't, the ones trumpeting themselves and giving them a chance to, to shine. I think that's amazing and wonderful that you're doing that. And I love the notion. And if you could. What would you go next?

[00:42:53] Evan Stern: Uh, well, I, I have a dream. I would love to drive route 66 from Oklahoma to [00:43:00] California, and I would love to collect stories and oral histories along the way. Um, I think that route 66, so much of why, um, it kind of occupies this mythic status, um, is because of the timing. Um, you know, there were other highways that were built before or after there were larger ones.

[00:43:19] Um, but I think, you know, if you journey route 60, I've never done it, but I, I have to think that if you drive route 66, I mean, you were following in the steps of the, the Okies who migrated to California because of the dust bowl and the great depression. Um, it was an incredible artery during world war II.

[00:43:38] So there's that history as well. Um, then it kind of. You know, in encapsulates that golden age of American travel and in the late forties and fifties, then it was decommissioned. And, you know, there was a lot of abandonment that happened and kind of, what does that say? Um, you know, about the American dream, you [00:44:00] know, it was it, uh, and, and so there's a lot that I would like to explore and taking that journey, um, beyond that, I would also love to take a trip to Mississippi sometime, uh, something that fascinates me about Mississippi.

[00:44:11] I think, um, the, the writer really Maura said that Mississippi is America's Ireland. Um, if you look at it, it has produced the most incredible Canon of just literary lions, um, William Fox. Um, Richard Wright, Eudora, Welty. Um, they were all Mississippians and Mississippi continues to produce an incredible writers there.

[00:44:36] There's a wonderful storytelling tradition attached to Mississippi. Um, and I would love to see, uh, what, what I could get there.

[00:44:47] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love it. I think that's amazing. First of all, I'd driven along 66 and you will, you will love it. Love it, love it. And, uh, you know, Mississippi and the south in general [00:45:00] has a rich storytelling culture. I have every time I spend time in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, that, that part of the country there, if you, if you set a spell, you will, you will get amazing stories.

[00:45:16] And often you don't, it doesn't take a lot of prompting. So I'm I'm you said earlier that, that it's just about sort of talking to people the way you would talk to them. The, I guess the question is, have you had people who just say Nope, Nope. Not doing it. And if so, what have you done if that particular story is important to you or do you just move on to the next person?

[00:45:38] Oh,

[00:45:38] Evan Stern: absolutely. Well, there, there is. Um, you know, so the. The third episode that you'll hear in the series. Um, I did at a honky-tonk called arche blue, silver dollar, um, in this town called Bandera, Texas. Um, it's a fantastic place. Um, again, it was pre pandemic. Um, so, you know, I showed up there unannounced and I really wanted to [00:46:00] talk to, uh, archi blue.

[00:46:01] He's he's the owner, he's in his eighties. He performs there every Saturday night. Um, I thought, you know, th this guy is a legend. I've got to talk to him, got to talk to him. He wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. Wouldn't give me an inch refuse to let me record him. Um, and you know, he was cordial when I talked to him, we're talking, you know, you're one word answers, you try everything.

[00:46:24] Um, but what happened is, is, uh, every, I, I talked to everyone. That I could find around him and everybody had a story about archi that they wanted to share and, um, what resulted in. And so his refusal became part of the story itself. Um, but in talking to everyone who knew and loved him and had stories to share about him, you really got a terrific, uh, portrait that wouldn't have existed.

[00:46:56] Otherwise that that I think is entirely charming. [00:47:00] Um, and when that happened, I had to remind myself that one of my very, very favorite, um, essays of all time, uh, was written by, uh, gates Elise. Um, in 1965, he was given an assignment to interview Frank Sinatra for Esquire magazine and Frank Sinatra completely refused to talk to him.

[00:47:23] Um, but what he ended up doing was he interviewed all the hangers on everyone in his, his entourage. And, uh, to this day, people say that it is the most realistic. Portrait of Frank Sinatra that has ever been captured. Um, and so I would recommend to anyone who finds themselves in that position to think of that story and, you know, maybe read that story, uh, because that's something that I draw tremendous inspiration from.[00:48:00]

[00:48:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: It's so interesting. I have a friend who, uh, who's a PR expert and she talks about the difference between marketing and PR Gloria, Charles, her name. And she says marketing is when you come to people and you say, Hey, I'm great. But PR is when someone else goes, you know what? That person they're great. And as long as it's someone you trust, it weighs more than if the person is trumping again themselves, you know?

[00:48:31] And so there's something to what you said that kind of reminded me of that, that notion of the other people around Frank Sinatra or, or, or archi, uh, being the ones who tell their tale. And I, I guess I'm wondering within that, I've asked you about the wildest, what is the story that has touched you the most?

[00:48:55] The one that made you go, ah, wow. I had no [00:49:00] idea.

[00:49:02] Evan Stern: Well, for me, the, the episode that, that, that has the most personal heart for me, um, is, is the second one. What happened is I went to this dance hall. Um, I, I, I knew that I wanted to do a piece on dance halls. Um, in, in Texas, you know, everyone always talks, always writes about Greenhall or Lukin Bach.

[00:49:27] You know, those are the big dance halls, but there are many, many, many more others out there. And there was one I discovered that I'd never been to called SEF Shaq hall. It's in this teeny community, um, called Seton, Texas. It's about eight miles outside of a town called temple. It's a community of about 40 people.

[00:49:48] And, um, and there's this old dance hall there called SEF shuck hall. That is pretty much trapped in time. Um, by most accounts, it is now the oldest, [00:50:00] um, family run dance hall in Texas. You know, it's a family that, that owns it. This family has, has always owned and run it. And, um, I went there and I wanted to talk to its owner, Alice, who is 89 years old.

[00:50:19] Um, and, uh, you know, I had actually called an advanced to ask if I could come and talk to her. She said, sure, well, I got there. And I said, well, I'm here to talk to Alice. And it turned out, you know, that morning she took a fall and they had to take her to the emergency room. Um, and you know, and it kind of, you know, you could feel the way.

[00:50:41] In that situation, you know, what, what happens to this place? Um, you know, without, without Alice here. And I ended up talking to her daughter-in-law and son, um, and you know, they're, they're committed to keeping it going. Um, but you could feel like the, you [00:51:00] know, the, you know, I, I feel like that situation kind of infused the episode with, with weight.

[00:51:06] Um, but beyond that, um, you know, I listened to, to what I had initially, and there was something missing. Um, I said to myself, I said, you know, I'm doing a lot of talking here. I'd like to find someone else who could do some, some talking for. Um, and there there's an association called the Texas dance hall preservation.

[00:51:29] And I found the woman who was working at the time as their executive director, because I wanted to talk to her just to kind of get some more historic perspective on dance halls. You know, I was talking about the history. I think it's better if someone else can talk about the history, other than me, that actually knows more.

[00:51:45] And, you know, I talked earlier about how, you know, you have those moments where someone just kind of, you know, tells a story or share something that just beautifully illuminates everything. And, um, [00:52:00] I was talking to her and I asked, I said, you know, there are so many causes out there in this world that are, that are worth devoting attention to.

[00:52:09] I said, you know, why are dance halls important to you? And she said it was, it became an incredibly emotional interview that I was not expecting at all. But she said that, you know, those places have a lot of heart and that her fear was that we're getting away from that as a society. And, you know, she, you know, ends up crying.

[00:52:34] She's saying, you know, these places, you know, people go there, you know, it's not just about the fun. It's, it's not just about the dancing. Um, it's about, you know, it's about cleaning the roof. It's about cleaning the toilet. And she says, I see so many people working so hard to keep these places going and, you know, and of course it is perfectly illustrated what the shoe lock family, you know, we're, we're [00:53:00] doing, you know, the, the, the daughter-in-law the son, you know, they, they work, you know, five days, they do not take days off.

[00:53:07] You know, they have regular jobs that they keep Monday through Friday, and then they're there on the weekends. And, um, I think that it beautifully exemplified their story. In addition to just about every other person that I talked to in the series as a whole,

[00:53:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: that is beautiful. And I'm so grateful that you shared that, that moment of, of talking to her and also the story of. Dance halls in general or, or anything that we do because we love it. Um, you know, we, we do it because whatever it is, whatever that thing is that you do, because you love it. And particularly these places where one of the things that I think Evan, that, that you've highlighted, that I think is so [00:54:00] incredible is that you've taken, you've highlighted places that aren't going out for fame.

[00:54:08] You know, these are people and places that are just living, doing their thing and living their lives day in and day out, year in and year out. And they're not going to be a celebrity. They're not trying to be world famous for example. And yet you've shown the light on them. And I think that's so it's powerful because of that, because they're living their lives and doing something hopefully that they love, like with the dance hall story.

[00:54:35] And they're not looking for accolades and yet you've given them a platform. And I'm so grateful that you've

[00:54:43] Evan Stern: done that. Well, I will say it's not even that. I think a lot of them as well, feel a responsibility to the people who go to these places, you know, like a dive bar, isn't just a place to grab a beer.

[00:54:58] You know, a dive [00:55:00] bar represents an entire community. Um, you know, a dive bar, a dance hall. These are all places where people go to, to belong. That's that's, that's what, all of the, that's another through line that I think these places have in common, you know, whether it's a barbecue joint, a dive bar, a dance hall, people go to these places for community and for places to belong.

[00:55:25] And I think that it's, it's, it's important to highlight that aspect as well.

[00:55:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Absolutely. I agree. Yeah. Interestingly because people come and go, like you said, there are a lot of people who, who come to Texas, uh, especially Austin has, has ballooned. Uh, I guess the question that's come that's upper. Most of my mind right now is culturally the culture of places changes.

[00:55:54] Right? And so, as the culture evolves, I [00:56:00] know that you're a lot of what vanishing postcards is about is, is capturing that before it goes away before it's no longer in its current form. Are there things that you've done that have been, uh, sort of in the process of changing or something is over and something new's coming to take its place?

[00:56:21] And if so, what have those things been?

[00:56:25] Evan Stern: Um, you mean my work or places I've been.

[00:56:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I guess I'm not asking the question very well. I'm just wondering about culturally, your vanishing postcards project is focused on sort of the smaller, uh, heart, very heartfelt places in people in Texas now and perhaps, and perhaps hopefully someday elsewhere.

[00:56:51] And as, as the culture changes in those places or for those dance halls, have you captured in any of the [00:57:00] episodes that you've done? That change taking place? Absolutely.

[00:57:04] Evan Stern: Um, the, the very first place that I went to, um, was a bar called, uh, the, the dry Creek cafe. Um, it's been there for about 70 years. Um, it, when it first opened in the early 1950s, it really basically sat on the edge of the country.

[00:57:22] Now, not only is it no longer country, um, it's now pretty much surrounded by mansion's. Um, it's now basically it's this ramshackle dilapidated dive that is surrounded by some of the priciest real estate in all of Texas. Um, but this bar has survived. Um, and I think it's one of the few places that you can go where you're reminded that, you know, before the tech, uh, millionaires invaded the Hills, the Hills were actually home to Cedar choppers, which was this, um, Appalachian subculture.

[00:57:55] Um, and, uh, the, the very first person that I interviewed. [00:58:00] In, um, in Texas for the series was angel their bartender. Um, this was a tough day game, you know, raspy voice, you know, just changed smoker, you know, just, just fabulous, you know, just tough as nails, woman. Um, she was incredibly, um, reticent to, uh, to speak with me again, getting her to talk on the record and letting along to record her.

[00:58:28] Um, just took every ounce of charm that I could possibly muster. But when she found out that I was okay with cussing, um, she opened right up. She let the F bombs fly. Um, we had a terrific time, um, and, uh, very sadly I think about, um, four months or so. Um, after I, I interviewed her, she died. Um, what was remarkable about angel is, um, as I said, the place opened in, um, I think it was 1950.

[00:58:59] [00:59:00] Three. Um, she was only the third bartender to ever work there. Wow. Um, and so I'm incredibly grateful that I, you know, captured her, her voice and I have that record of her. Um, but you know, you have to ask, you know, when, when someone like that goes, you know, um, you know, what does that, how does that change a place?

[00:59:22] You know, what does that do? I was actually just back in Austin last week. Um, and I went there to visit the place to, you know, just see if there was some additional footage I could get that would help bring the season two to a close, um, just to kind of see how that change had affected things. Um, and you know, so there, there are analogies, there, there are now like a few bartenders there who are like trading duties and whatnot.

[00:59:48] Um, but I think what's kind of beautiful is that those who have filled in, you know, were all regulars, who, who knew and loved and cared about the bar. Um, [01:00:00] and, uh, you know, they dedicated a section of the bar to angel where they have, you know, her pictures and some things that she loved. Um, and, um, it was, it was just kind of interesting and reassuring to see, um, how, you know, yes, you know, when a beloved, you know, figured, uh, leaves, it's hard and it's challenging.

[01:00:21] Um, but if the community is there. It will come. It will find a way to continue. At least for now. I'm grateful to see that, to know that the dry Creek is still there and that those who love it, um, are doing their part to, uh, to keep it going.

[01:00:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm so glad to hear that story. That is wonderful. Evan. I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me about this.

[01:00:46] It's, it's such an important topic because it isn't one that, that we tend to focus on. So I'm really grateful that you took the time to tell me about vanishing postcards and to tell me about the culture and the people that you are, [01:01:00] uh, Capturing, if you will, for, for all of us, for all of us to enjoy. And I, and if you're listening to this, you need to go check out vanishing postcards.

[01:01:08] I've listened to a few episodes and it's fabulous and amazing. Evan. If you wouldn't mind, I would love it. If you would give whatever social media. Uh, that you have so that if people want to find you, that they can.

[01:01:22] Evan Stern: Absolutely. So the, um, you know, if you search, uh, vanishing postcards on Instagram, uh, you'll find it there.

[01:01:29] Um, it also has a, a, a, a Facebook page, just search vanishing postcards. It should turn up. Um, you can also find me on Instagram as well. I'm at Evan stern NYC. Um, and, um, you know, I thank you so much and oh, and, but most important, most crucially, um, you know, please go find, listen to subscribe to vanishing postcards.

[01:01:54] Um, since this is a podcast, uh, you know, whatever, you're listening to this on, I'm quite [01:02:00] confident that you'll find us there. We're on apple, we're on Spotify, we're on all the, uh, you know, whatever platform is out there. We're more than likely on, and I'd be most honored if you'd consider giving us a little.

[01:02:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Awesome. And I will actually put all of that in the show notes so that if you're listening to this and you've seen the show notes, you'll be seeing the links to all of it. I just, people learn differently. So I like giving both the audio and the sort of, you can read it visual for it. Uh, Evan, again, I'm really grateful that you took the time to chat with me.

[01:02:32] Me and I, I have one last question, if that's okay. Of course. It's a question I ask everybody who comes on the show and it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some profound results. Yeah. And the question is this, if you could sky write anything for the whole world to see what would you.

[01:02:53] Evan Stern: What would I say for the whole world to see?

[01:02:58] Oh my [01:03:00] goodness. Yeah. So I feel like I need to say something profound, like Buddha or something like that now, or Yoda. My goodness.

[01:03:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I've had people say, eat your veggies. So it does not have to be,

[01:03:16] Evan Stern: I mean, it is a cliche. Um, I've, I've heard it many times. Um, but I, I do believe that there is something to be said for the fact that if I were to write this in the sky, I would say luck is the result of preparation meeting opportunity.

[01:03:34] I absolutely believe that to be true. Um, I always do my best to be, uh, you know, prepared and, uh, educate myself and, you know, and, and be ready so that, um, you know, when opportunity comes, you know, luck can, can happen.

[01:03:53] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. I think that's a great way to end this episode, Evan stern, you are fabulous, and I'm [01:04:00] so glad that you were here.

[01:04:01] Thank you. This is the innovative mindset podcast. You have been listening to my wonderful conversation with Evan stern, who is the host of the vanishing postcards podcast, which of course, you know, you need to check out if you're liking what you're hearing, do me a favor, leave a review, let me know comment.

[01:04:20] However you'd like to get in touch. I would appreciate it until next time. This is again, Izolda Trakhtenberg reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[01:04:36] thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[01:04:53] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by [01:05:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.

 

* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I'll get a small commission. And please remember, I'll never recommend a product or service I don't absolutely love!

 

Brain.FM CEO Dan Clark On The App That Helps You Be Your Best Self On Demand

Brain.fm CEO Dan Clark

In a fun coincidence, this episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset

If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

 

Before he became CEO of Brain.fm, Dan Clark worked as a website and app developer. He switched careers from building an advertising agency and came across Brain.fm. 

In his first session, he bought an account and was so excited after a week of use, he needed to be part of the company. He called 12 times. 

He finally got a job and worked the first month for free. Fast forward, he’s now the CEO, and 2019's Forbes 30 under 30. 

Dan is always excited about how technology can change the world.

Connect with Dan and Brain.fm.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brainfmapp/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brain.fm/

Episode Transcript

Dan Clark

[00:00:00] Dan Clark: [00:00:00] The real mission is to empower everyone around the world to be their best self on demand, full stop.

[00:00:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:10] Hello, welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:31] I love it and have been using it to write, create, and do some of my deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word, and now let's get to.

[00:00:54] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm super [00:01:00] thrilled. You're here and I am incredibly excited about this week's guest. Check this out before he became CEO of brain FM, Dan Clark worked as a website and app developer. He switched careers from building an advertising agency and came across brain FM in his first session.

[00:01:17] He bought an account and was so super excited. After a week of use, he needed to be part of the company. He called them 12 times and he finally got a job with them and worked the first month for free that's how much he believed in it. Fast forward. He's now the CEO and 20 nineteens Forbes, 30 under 30.

[00:01:36] Dan has always excited about how technology can change the world. So that makes them the ideal guests for the innovative mindset podcast. Dan I'm so glad that you're here.

[00:01:43] Dan Clark: [00:01:43] Welcome my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:01:46] Oh, it's absolutely my pleasure. So first of all, it's not often you hear, I will work for you for free.

[00:01:54] What, what made you do that? What made you go, you know, I love this so much that I'm going to, I'm [00:02:00] going to just do whatever it takes to, to be part of this company.

[00:02:03] Dan Clark: [00:02:03] Yeah. So I think it was, um, it was both the product and then also my personal story. So, um, I'm a secretary black belt and I taught martial arts to kids, uh, for a really long time.

[00:02:13] And then as I did that, I started making martial arts websites, apps, and kind of, um, really start optimizing for, uh, financial success. And I hit this point when I was, um, the director of this advertising agency, where. I felt empty. Um, and I felt like I wasn't doing what I really loved, which is helping people.

[00:02:35] And I wanted to get back into that. And at the same time, I was super sensitive to my own focus and energy. Um, and I used to actually work from 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM in the morning to find what we call now, like our flow state. And I ended up leaving the advertising agency, looking for things that I could get excited about and [00:03:00] came across brain FM when it just launched.

[00:03:02] And I remember using it for the first time and being blown away because I was able to get into that magic state of effortless, where it feels like you can fly, um, again, flow state. And we can dive into that later, but I was so enthralled from the first activity and I was like, this can change the world.

[00:03:19] I need to be part of this country. And it was that level of commitment where I was like, I just want to be, this is going to change the world. I want to be part of this rocket ship. Um, call them up a bunch. Um, they didn't really, it was just starting company. And I said, Hey, you know, I'm not in here for the money.

[00:03:34] I'm here for, you know, the ride let's do this. And, um, I guess four, four years later, three years later I became CEO. So it's been a, it's been a wild ride and it's that drive of what can this do for the world and for people around the world, um, that has really driven me to, uh, you know, focus on building the company into what it.

[00:03:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:03:57] Oh, I love that. I love the [00:04:00] notion of wanting to change the world for the better, especially through innovation and technology. And I do want to dive into that, but I need to ask a side little question. What martial art are you a second Dornin? Um,

[00:04:13] Dan Clark: [00:04:13] mixed martial arts with a concentration of Krav Maga, muy Thai Kempo, uh, jujitsu, um, few different things in that nature.

[00:04:22] Wow.

[00:04:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:04:23] Oh, that's it sounds exciting. I'm a, I'm a showdown in Ikea, so I'm like, oh cool. I'm like, oh yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. I've been studying martial arts in one form or other since I was a teenager. And I actually find that the martial arts in some ways can help you get into that flow state as well.

[00:04:39] That that sort of change where almost anything is possible. And I would love if you would talk a little bit, you've mentioned flow state. I would love it. If you'd talk a little bit about what brain FM, how does, how does brain FM. Help you do that. If you, if what you want to do is get into that state where everything feels [00:05:00] effortless, where you're calm and you're focused.

[00:05:02] That's wonderful. And I know lots of people, trumpet meditation and all of that brain FM, and I've been using it myself recently. So I'm very excited about it, but how does it do, what does it do to you to help you get into that state?

[00:05:17] Dan Clark: [00:05:17] Yeah, of course. So at brain FM, we make functional music designed to help you focus, relax, and sleep better.

[00:05:23] Um, and the way we do that is, um, your brain has these different neural patterns, right? And they're actually very understood in science. So if you put an EEG on someone's head while they're in focus or relaxing or sleeping, there's a pattern that the brain has. Um, and if you did an MRI, which is measuring the blood flow to different areas of your brain, your blood flow has similar patterns.

[00:05:49] And what we do is we've been able to discover how to add, uh, different rhythmic pulses or different patterns to music. So when you're listening to that [00:06:00] music, your brain starts mirroring those patterns and can quicker switch into better focus, better relax, or better sleep. And then what's really cool about the technology is because you're continually losing this.

[00:06:15] Um, it's not something you have to train and practice that it's something that's, uh, a physiological effect. So we're actually redistributing blood flow in your brain, helping you get to that pattern that we know is science does help, um, and then stay there. And, um, the cool part about it is it's disguised in music.

[00:06:34] Um, it's a patented thing that we've come up with it's it hasn't been done before in this application. Um, and we have tons and tons of science to show the effectiveness of it.

[00:06:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:06:45] Wow. Okay. So let's dig into this a little bit. The science says that like, yay. So the science says that your brain is that the blood flow to the brain, the different neural pathways [00:07:00] are, the things are firing.

[00:07:02] The synapses are firing differently. It sounds like. And what does that mean with respect to the music itself? Is the music, is it, is it sub oral or is it something that's the actual rhythm of the pieces themselves? That does that

[00:07:17] Dan Clark: [00:07:17] great question. So, um, first off is when we make music, what we have done is actually build the music from ground up.

[00:07:26] So we don't. We don't like change music. That's already created. We say, Hey, let's first figure out from the beginning, how can we make music that affects people's mental states, right. And a lot of music today, that's responsible. Like you can search on YouTube or Spotify. You can find a bunch of people that claim that they can do this, but they usually take music that's already been created and either change it or relabel it as such.

[00:07:54] And there's been other attempts with science, like binaural beats or isochronic tones that have, uh, had [00:08:00] really limited success, um, to show that this works. Um, and what we've been able to discover is when we start from the ground up, we can do all of the things that you hear in music that, you know, feel, you know, focusing.

[00:08:15] And we can talk about some of those things like sailings reduction and new lyrics. Um, but then we also add these patterns. Um, that act on our brain on a, um, uh, uh, physical level, um, which allow us to align the functional networks of your brain to communicate more effectively. Um, so let me, there's a lot there, so let me break it down.

[00:08:38] So one of the things, yeah, one of the things that we know, and it probably makes sense is that when you listen to music with lyrics in it, it can be distracting. And the reason why is because you either know the lyrics, so you start thinking about what the next lyrics are. It's distracting from the work you're doing, or you're trying to [00:09:00] understand the lyrics.

[00:09:01] And there's no such thing in the brain as multitasking. You're basically switching back and forth between tasks. So even if you're kind of, um, not paying attention to the lyrics or trying to, you know, actively ignore something, it's actually taking energy to do that. So one of the first rules we have is we don't have lyrics in our music.

[00:09:24] There's other rules that we follow, um, which is like salients reduction. Um, and that's the difference between, um, sounds so not having like loud, you know, clashes and other kinds of things, music that stealer attention. And these are based on things that we've been able to observe in the brain that really actually track all the way back to like evolution.

[00:09:45] Um, because we're the descendants of the people that when we are walking in the woods and we heard a twig break, we knew, oh, there's probably a tiger here. That's coming to get me, I'm going to run away. Right. And so what happens is we're making music to [00:10:00] really control the environment and just from an acoustic property alone.

[00:10:04] And one of the reasons why we all love music is because it's really cool that you can put music on and change the. The state that you're in, in a way of, um, you know, associations as a way of like what genres you're listening to. Um, and it acts on the brain, you know, as music does. And then what we've done is, is we do all of those roles and then we apply science on top of it, um, or with it.

[00:10:33] And what we're doing is, is inside of those genres or the different kinds of music that we're playing that are following all those rules were, um, adding these, um, modulations, which are these rapid, uh, frequencies of turning on and off different bands of music and what that's actually doing when you listen to it, um, is it's, it's, um, lining up different functional networks of your brain through a process called entrainment [00:11:00] and what you can kind of think of it as your brain being like a Christmas tree where it's blinking all different times and all different regions.

[00:11:08] Are starting to listen to these patterns that are, um, basically harnessing all these regions and organizing them, um, the process of entrainment mirrors, um, your environment and your, those Christmas tree lights actually all start blinking at the same time, which enables us to hope speed up the transition between, you know, being in a resting state, for example, and then being in a deep focus state.

[00:11:38] Um, so what we're doing here is we're using human composers where you, which are really great at creativity and finding really great things that people, um, want to listen to. And then we're combining it with AI and with scientific research to create a product that basically is a switch, uh, that gets you into a mental [00:12:00] state and the effect, uh, it takes about five minutes to work and then it's sustained as long as you're listening to.

[00:12:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:12:09] I keep saying the word wow. After you're done talking because there's so it's, there's so much. Wow. Okay. So there are, so there's something you just said that made me go. Hmm. Is there such a thing as listening too long too? Cause I noticed in, in the app it's like 15 minutes, half an hour or two hours or something like that.

[00:12:32] If you want to do a focusing session, is that a, so that your brain does not get fatigued or was there another reason for making it so that there are these limits?

[00:12:42] Dan Clark: [00:12:42] That's a really great question. So actually in our new apps that we're developing right now, we're moving all of those. Um, that was really designed to give people an option of how to get started, but it really comes down to you.

[00:12:55] So it depends on. Really knowing [00:13:00] yourself and knowing the activity, excuse me, working on. Um, and then, uh, figuring out like, you know, what's, what's best suited for you. So for example, I use, uh, like I'll do a deep work focus, and I usually do about 90 minutes on that. And that's specifically designed for work that, you know, I just have to like crush through like my emails or whatever.

[00:13:21] Um, but when I'm doing, um, you know, like business planning or trying to be creative, like creative, I use our creativity section, which is in the, some of the new apps we're developing and are probably out by the time everyone's listening to this. Um, and that's specifically designed for again that like, you know, being more creative and being more loose and I find best for me in that state is 30 minutes.

[00:13:46] Um, but I know with other people, they have other experiences because everyone's brain is different and we're helping your brain. You know, get to the state that, uh, we, you know, we see works. [00:14:00] Um, and there's some other kinds of personalization that we can dive into as well. But then it's up to you to really learn more about yourself.

[00:14:10] Um, almost like training wheels, riding a bike, and then saying, okay, this is how long I really enjoy riding a bike before it's not fun anymore. Um, and, and that's kind of the, the best thing about the technology. You can use it, you know, some people use it for eight hours a day, um, but it really comes down to what's best for you what feels right?

[00:14:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:14:29] Yeah. I think it's empowering to sort of be the driver of your own bus there. And that's what I've noticed in using the focusing thing is that two hours is just a little too long for me, and then I drop it down, but I am amazed at how quickly, and this is something, I guess, that's that flow state that you were talking about?

[00:14:47] What has happened in the last couple of weeks since I've been using the app? Is that. I get to this place where I don't realize that I've been productive. I look back and go, oh, look at all these [00:15:00] things I've finished. But I was so deep into them that the passage of time sort of went away. And so I was wondering when someone is using the app, that flow state seems to be an ideal.

[00:15:15] What happens if they can't get there? Do you have feedback from users that are like, no, this, I don't know how to make this work for me. And what do you do when someone says that when someone goes, you know, is there, is there, for example, uh, perhaps a neurological issue that someone might have that might preclude them from being able to use the app because of the way the app interacts with

[00:15:37] Dan Clark: [00:15:37] the brain.

[00:15:38] Very good question. Um, let's unpack that. So there's, there's definitely neurological diverse people. Um, everyone has different neurological diversity, um, and that could be spectrum of, you know, ADHD, for example, um, it's a myth, it's a common misconception that you have ADHD or you don't, um, it's in reality is [00:16:00] everyone has different levels of ADHD and all the other kinds of neurological stuff.

[00:16:05] Um, so there could be things that have proclivities across, um, that, that, you know, um, maybe people have challenges with. However, uh, we actually find that more neurological diverse people have better effects with brain FM, um, believe it or not. So we were working with, um, autism, ADHD, um, different kinds of anxiety.

[00:16:29] And we do a lot of research on the side there. Um, some of the things that we do for personalization and, and some of maybe. The faster, more direct answer to your question is that, um, our science, um, is really our power level of the music. We call it their neural effect level. And some people are very sensitive to it and some people are less sensitive.

[00:16:54] And what, um, if people are having challenges, finding, you know, their flow state, I would [00:17:00] actually say, we have to find, you know, turn that knob up. So it's more intense or turn it down. And that's, um, some of the reasons that you hear me mentioning this new app that we're creating, because what we wanted, we found that this works for all individuals, because it's a process of entrainment that we naturally do.

[00:17:19] So actually you and I talking you're in training to my voice and my, you know, I'm doing the same to you. And that's an effect of being able to infer what I'm going to say next, um, and different kinds of environmental factors and, uh, Basically the, the, the answer to your question is, uh, you know, we found that this does work for many, many people because it works with our brain.

[00:17:44] It's not like hacking it. It's, it's something that your brain naturally already does. And what we have to just find is fine tuning for Bob versus Samantha, you know, what the specific power level that they need. And then what kind of, um, acoustic qualities of the music [00:18:00] is best suited for them like the brightness or the complexity, um, and then really packaged it together.

[00:18:05] Um, and that's something that we are constantly working on to make sure that every time you go in it's the best experience. Um, and then if people don't, if people have challenges, they can reach out to customer support and we can definitely help them find more specific crafted music for them.

[00:18:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:18:22] I love that.

[00:18:22] And I love that notion of the personalization of it that lets you again, stay in the driver's seat of what works for you. What doesn't work for you. The, the music that I've listened to for the focusing has been fantastic for me because I like it. And I liked that. You said that it's not jarring. I noticed that, that there weren't any big, you know, drum crescendos or anything like that.

[00:18:43] It was, it was much more of a, of a gentle rolling Hills instead of climbing mountains, which I think is great. But you said something that I think is really interesting about the ADF. My husband has add, I talk about it on this podcast all the time, because he's very artistic and creative and innovative, but [00:19:00] has trouble focusing.

[00:19:01] And part of the thing that I'm, I'm, I'm totally gonna get this for him so that he can use it to. And part of the thing that I'm thinking about is when someone has a, neurodivergence a component to the way they think that is different. What, and you said customer service, it would be great, you know, so they can reach out, but what can they do on the fly?

[00:19:26] What can they, is there a choice they can make within the music? Or is that, or is that coming in the next version of the app to go? No, I'm not, I'm not focusing the way I want to be, or I want to be doing something differently than I am. Can I choose within the app to make the experience better for myself in the moment, or is that something that's going to be coming down the pike?

[00:19:46] Dan Clark: [00:19:46] So you can actually right now, so, um, in our, in our iOS and Android version of the app, right now, you can actually go into the power level settings and select one, two or three. And the new version of the app, we give you even more hand control of, [00:20:00] of showing you the personalization engine we're using, where you're, you're falling in that category.

[00:20:05] Um, and then able to like play with it a little bit. Um, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's really the power of, of our music and w and our functional music on how we're approaching this, um, and how we differentiate between Spotify. So we really want to make sure that, you know, um, as a user where you fall in that category and give you the ability to see and feel the difference.

[00:20:26] Um, and it's really interesting because you may need some power level. You know, for focus and you need a complete, like, let's say you need, um, so people with, um, higher ADHD usually perform better with higher power levels. So let's say it's a level three, right? And in sleep, it's not level three, it's a level one, you know?

[00:20:49] Um, and they don't necessarily correlate. Um, but again, that's what we're trying to do here is, is create music that you want to listen to. Um, you said a good point of it's not jarring. It's [00:21:00] actually, we try really hard to make music that you enjoy listening to, but you don't love, um, because we don't want you to like be distracted by, wow, I've really loved this song.

[00:21:10] And we have, you know, we have great music. We have award-winning composers that do this. Um, but then, you know, again, giving you also the power to control the power, um, and then learn more about yourself and, you know, optimize, um, as you choose to.

[00:21:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:21:29] That's so interesting because I really liked the songs, the city too, so that's good. Uh, I tend to like instrumental music a lot. So it was very, you know, you said, well, we want you to like it, but not love it. And I think that's really, that's really fascinating because then it's easier to keep it sort of in the background while you focus on the other things that you're trying to actually do.

[00:21:51] And if we can, if we can change, focus just a little bit, see what I did there. Uh, if we can, I didn't actually, I've English, isn't [00:22:00] my first language. And so I cannot pun, but when I do, it's always, I always want to do a little, a little happy dance because I actually punched in and did it. Let's talk about stress.

[00:22:10] Sure. So one of the things that you can do with the app is do a relaxation. So there's a relaxation arm of this and that is it. Is it sort of hijacking the amygdala or, or are you going by the time it gets to the hypothalamus? Like where, where does the app interact with the brain when it comes to that stress fight flight or freeze response?

[00:22:34] How does

[00:22:35] Dan Clark: [00:22:35] that yeah, great question. And I think there may be some answers here that my neuroscientist is better suited than I am, but I'll try my best. Um, so we're actually using the same exact technology that we're using for flow states and focus and even relax or sorry, sleep and what we're doing with relaxes, we have a different neural pattern and that pattern is, um, again, redistributing blood flow in your brain [00:23:00] that then because of that has different functions.

[00:23:03] So. We're not necessarily going to the medulla or the, you know, all the different parts of the brain and specifically, um, uh, focusing now I'm doing puns, but, um, we're not specifically like hijacking, you're changing something of that. What we're doing is we're actually changing the whole brain. Um, and that effect is, is one.

[00:23:25] I think it makes more sense because your brain is so, um, um, you know, we know more about Pluto that we know about our brain in some aspects, like memory creation, things like that. There's, there's still a lot of things that we're just discovering how the brain works. Um, and for, for relax specifically, um, we, we are just creating a different normal pattern.

[00:23:47] We do different genres of music that people associate with like relaxing environments. Um, so the difference between like almost like spa music, um, and then, you know, different chill and instrumental music that's slower. [00:24:00] So we're doing an on both sides. And actually it's really funny because one of the things that we are doing in our medical portion of the company is we're actually investigating relaxation, um, for different kinds of medical treatments.

[00:24:16] And, um, we did this one study where there's a song called wait-lists by mark CARNA union. And it's whole it's it's, it's, there's been BBC articles and stuff. And this was created a few years ago. It's the most relaxing sound in the world. And it was built with neuroscientists and, um, you know, different composers.

[00:24:36] And it was so successful that they actually compared it to a. Um, my, it was some kind of, um, a drug, right. I, I can't remember the exact name. Um, I wouldn't be able to pronounce it probably. Um, but, um, they were, it was, it was that, and it was, it was hailed as the most sound relaxing sound of the world because it's just as effective as this one sedative.

[00:25:00] [00:25:00] And what we did is we said, okay, well, let's see if we can beat it. And in this specific example, we're actually currently doing pilot tests in surgery centers to help people relax before surgery and then wake up after surgery. Well rested, especially because it's, it's very hard not to be stressed before surgery, you know?

[00:25:21] Um, and what's really interesting is we took all the things that waitlist did. We applied all of the technology that we have. And we beat it by like 30%, um, using different kinds of questionnaires of, um, uh, the poems questionnaire. That's, that's the standard in psychology. Um, and from that, now we're going in testing this with pilot data.

[00:25:44] And what's really interesting is it's the same exact technology that we have in our consumer application. Um, and it allows someone to really, you know, press a button. Switch their state. And what's really cool about [00:26:00] this. You know, I, I like, I love meditation. I, I'm a very big proponent of it. Um, but what's really interesting about this is that meditation, you really have to practice.

[00:26:10] Um, and even if you practice and you think you got it, then you practice another 10 times and you're like, no, now I got it. And it just keeps going where this is again, that, that physiological effect. So it will happen in your first five minutes, even if you're mentally not ready to, you know, um, and that's really cool, especially with our busy lives that we have, where if you just say, Hey, I just need five minutes to relax.

[00:26:34] You can actually shift your whole demeanor by switching into this. And that five minutes is actually doing something rather than, you know, hoping it's doing something for example. Um, and I think there's, there's a huge difference in that. Um, because it's, it's almost inactive. Does that make

[00:26:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:26:54] sense? It does.

[00:26:56] It absolutely does make sense as I'm a long time meditator, but [00:27:00] I'm a long time frustrated meditator because of that, because there are times when I try to drop down into meditation and the entire time I'm going, I'd really like to be meditating right now. I can't believe I can't shut my brain off, you know?

[00:27:12] And so, so I'm constantly picturing calm oceans for a long time trying to get to that state. So I liked the notion very much of, of being able to get into that state. And I really liked the notion of people in hospitals having access to something that will help them de-stress beforehand. And I did, I did some research and you have a national science foundation grant to study this technology.

[00:27:39] What, how, first of all, how did you get it? And second of all, what exactly is the NSF funding for you to start.

[00:27:47] Dan Clark: [00:27:47] Yeah. Great question. So this was, um, in a, uh, dual, um, effort with Northeastern university with one of our, um, uh, what's the best word. [00:28:00] Um, I guess, you know, we, we have a lot of different partnerships with different academic institutions and, um, this is with one, um, specifically to study ADHD in the brain and as a alternative treatments to medication, um, to, uh, help people with ADHD.

[00:28:17] And what we did specifically for this was, um, and this is where like a lot of our evidence comes from at least for our focus product, um, where we took regular music. Um, we took brain FM. We took brain FM with, and without our technology applied to it. Um, and then we put like a like pink noise. And we basically studied different individuals that were trying to do different video games.

[00:28:45] Um, and these are start tasks which are, um, very standard in, um, measuring someone's performance. And as they did that, we watched them on EEG. We watched them, um, on Fri and we were able to determine that. [00:29:00] When someone is listening to, um, you know, brain FM and someone that has ADHD, um, that different, um, neural pattern or that power level that we can adjust.

[00:29:13] Um, if we turn that up higher, that person has better effects from, uh, the music, then maybe more normalized individuals. Um, and from that, we're actually developing, um, a better product where we learn more about people in that personalized manner. And we can start selecting music based on where someone is on that bell curve of, um, neurodivergence.

[00:29:40] Um, and, and yeah, I mean, it's, it's very exciting because it's something that supports that we actually can help all individuals. And, um, now we can better serve rather than guessing. Um, we have a very great starting point on, um, helping someone get right into that point.

[00:30:01] [00:30:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:30:01] That's fascinating. And I, you know, as I said, my husband rich has add, so, so that notion of, uh, being able to focus when you want to is something that I think is incredible. And there's a book that a lot of people with add, read that's called you mean I'm not lazy, crazy or stupid. I don't know if you've ever heard of this book, but it was written a while ago.

[00:30:25] And it was written to people essentially to people who have add and ADHD to sort of let them know you're not lazy. Crazy. You're stupid. You, you have neurodivergence essentially. So I'm wondering in, in the work that you're doing, how. What kind of feedback. I mean, I could go look at the reviews of the app, but what kind of feedback are you getting from people who have these, these divergences and is it, is it helping the consumer as opposed to like, I understand the NSF study and I think that's amazing, but how, what kind of [00:31:00] feedback are you getting from people who have some of these challenges who then are able to perhaps focus some people for the first

[00:31:07] Dan Clark: [00:31:07] time?

[00:31:08] Yeah. So I'm happy to answer that, but before I do, I want to take a note and say that, um, I think everyone has super powers. Um, and people that for a long time in neurodiversity have said that they don't when, when they relook at it and they can really start harnessing it. They, you know, like you, you were mentioning your husband is very skilled as in creativity.

[00:31:32] Um, and that's such a super power. So I first just want to take a second and say that. You know, there's so many great gifts that people have. And, um, with ADHD, it's really hard to find people's, but it's really, and that's one of the mission statements that we have is really to help everyone be plus one, w we think we're a plus one product, so we can help everyone go to the next level, be their best self on demand.

[00:31:59] Um, [00:32:00] so you just, you just struck a chord with me. I want to make sure I brought that up.

[00:32:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:32:03] Um, and that's great because that was going to be my very next question.

[00:32:07] Dan Clark: [00:32:07] So yeah, I mean, I, you know, for me specifically, like I'm, I'm, I've always, you know, I was always working for them. Um, I'm not an early riser, right? I am now I wake up at seven o'clock, but for a long time I could not function.

[00:32:23] And I, you know, I dropped out of high school because of it. Um, and if you ever talked to my teachers, they would say this kid's not going to go anywhere. Um, and it wasn't until I started realizing, you know, tools through martial arts and tools through brain FM on, you know, how I can use these tools to be better.

[00:32:42] And, you know, after I saw the, to answer your question, but, um, you know, I think. That's what brain FM is. Ultimately, it's a tool, you know, we can't build a house for you, but we're the hammer that lets you build a house more effectively than, you know, without a tool. You know? So I think that's, that's [00:33:00] important.

[00:33:00] Um, as far as feedback we get from customers, um, we have, you know, over 2 million downloads and many users from around the world. Um, we actually have an internal channel called love letters and raving fans. And, um, we have, you know, from people saying this is the best thing ever. Um, too, some people have lowered their medication, you know, with ADHD, you have some people that, um, are, you know, like literally crying while they write emails and, um, really hard, you know, testimonials of how we've had a major impact in their life.

[00:33:32] Um, and you know, without getting into too many details and sharing things that I can't, um, you know, this is the reason why. Ultimately we build brain FM is, is to really harness that, um, you know, we have, we, we don't like right now, we've been really focusing on the science and really focusing on the company, uh, for, you know, the next 10 years and really laying the foundation where right now we don't do [00:34:00] a lot of marketing.

[00:34:01] Um, and even with that being said, we still have tens of thousands of people that come to us, um, every week to try us out because it's all referrals right now. Um, and that really, I guess, goes, goes to beyond, you know, me just coming on here and saying how great it is. Um, it's really like our customers that are shouting about, Hey, there's this secret tool that I've found that lets me become a superhuman.

[00:34:27] Um, and again, that's why we do it.

[00:34:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:34:32] I love it. I love it. I keep pausing after you're done speaking because I'm taking it all in. And the thing is that I'm, you know, speaking of that, that notion of super power being a superhero. I, I agree with you. I think we all have our own unique. My focus is almost always creativity and innovation, but I think we all have our own unique genius.

[00:34:54] Your, you know, unique, creative genius, innovative genius, whatever it is, we all have something [00:35:00] that sets us apart. And I'm wondering, what are the uses do you think of looking forward instead of, and, and I forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn, but this notion of using brain FM for. Accessing the parts of your creative genius, for example, that you want to access being very purposeful with those kinds of actions while using the app.

[00:35:25] What are your thoughts about doing that? About someone who goes, I want to hack my creative center and I want to really open it up. Can the app do that? Will the app be able to do that? Do you want the app to be able to do that? What are your thoughts on that?

[00:35:39] Dan Clark: [00:35:39] Ooh, lots of really great questions. Um, so I think, you know, the first, so there's some things that I can say, and there's some things that I can't say because we're still, you know, evaluating and looking at things.

[00:35:51] Um, I think the first thing that's important is, and you know, we've talked about this with our science, but we're science first. Um, and that means that [00:36:00] everything that we do we want to make sure is actually true. Um, and we have evidence to show that. And I think that there's a lot of other companies that say they can do X, Y, and Z.

[00:36:11] Um, but when we look at the science and we look at evidence, um, it's not true or it's, it's, you know, oh yeah. We asked, you know, all of our users and we asked how, how good they feel. And they said 10 out of 10. So that means, um, and we, we really like, before I answer this, the reason why see that is because at the end of the day, we want to make a product that actually does better everyone, because it's way easier to focus on just building an amazing product.

[00:36:42] And I think that, um, with that being said, um, there are scientific limitations. Um, so the whole company, you know, we're designed around basically we have neuroscientists on the, on the team. We have a, um, uh, MIT and, um, Harvard graduate that works [00:37:00] for us. Auditory neuroscientists. He's a genius. And the way we create this company is that we fund science directly instead of, um, in other companies where breakthrough happens in science, and then five years later, a product comes out.

[00:37:14] We say, Hey, how can we make it so that we're investing in science? And then that makes the product better because the product's so good. So many people start using us. We have more money to invest in science and the cycle continues. And when I look at the future of where we're at, I think that it's really first is the ability to deliver optimal results for everyone.

[00:37:40] So looking at, um, someone coming in, learning about them and saying, Hey, this is my button. So I can get my creativity when I need to. And I can find that flow state, and I'm really excited. And this is something that I add to my habits. That's really important. Um, if you just use this, like once a month, It, [00:38:00] it will work, but it's way better when you use this consecutively and you train your brain to be creative.

[00:38:06] Um, and we can talk about some of the habits that I would suggest with this, um, program. Um, but then the next thing is, is then for someone to learn more about themselves to your part, right? So now someone looks at wearables and they look at, oh, well for me to get in a really great flow state, you know, I can use brain FM, but I also understand that if I'm drinking coffee, it takes me out of that.

[00:38:30] And I rather drink tea or whatever, you know, and as we start building, I think more connected world with more data, um, I see brain FM being a role or a pillar in that data to be able to help someone understand more about what makes them. Act the way they do, you know, and then be able to help, you know, learn and, and, and do it better, you know?

[00:38:57] So there's, there's definitely a lot of stuff there. [00:39:00] Um, and then I think it goes beyond, which is some of the medical things that we're currently investigating, um, you know, pre and post off I mentioned, but we're also searching Alzheimer's autism, ADHD, um, and a lot of other kinds of methods to help people and excuse me, um, when we combine all of those together, um, you know, it's, it's really exciting.

[00:39:23] Um, you know, one of the reasons why I just love and, and put so much effort into building this company is because it doesn't matter. Anything as long as you're human. So it doesn't matter what language you speak. Doesn't matter how much money you make. Doesn't matter, you know, your sex or your gender, or, you know, all these things.

[00:39:42] It matters that we're all human and our brains are incredibly similar and incredibly unique at the same time. And I think, um, you know, really that's, that's what, um, we're going to see as we move forward is what can science to, what can our human brains do? And then [00:40:00] how can we, you know, always. Live up to the potential.

[00:40:03] We want to be, um, so lots of stuff there, obviously speaking directly from the heart. So I apologize for the, the long tear, but, um, but yeah, I mean, there's, it's definitely a mission driven company for sure.

[00:40:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:40:15] Absolutely. And, and do not apologize ever for speaking from the heart. That, that to me is one of the pillars of, of what makes us a human is, is being able to express ourselves directly from that, that place of where we really believe it.

[00:40:30] And you do. And I think that's amazing. Uh, there, you said a couple of things that, uh, well, you said many things that now I want to spend the next six hours talking to you about, but there, there are some things here that you said that I think are really interesting and you said you want to help everybody.

[00:40:46] And this is one of those ridiculous questions that I'm sure you get, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Um, it is it's about accessibility. So this, you sort of have to be a hearing person. To be able to use [00:41:00] the app. Right. I imagine is there, is there something that can, that can work for someone who is deaf and is there something that can work for someone who is tone deaf, which is different than being than being deaf or hearing impaired?

[00:41:15] Dan Clark: [00:41:15] Yeah, great questions. So first off is, uh, tone deaf actually doesn't, um, block someone from using brain FM because we're not doing tones, we're doing a modulation, so it's the on and offs of things. Um, so actually a lot of people with hearing impairments can still use brain FM. Um, and if you're listening to this and you may have questions about that, reach out to our support team and we'll be able to give you a specific answer.

[00:41:41] Um, but what's really interesting is let's pretend someone can't hear anything at all. Um, we can still help people. And one of the other ways to do this is using light. Um, so what we're, what we're using right now is, is, is sound because it's a neuromodulator right. And that's really those patterns that we're doing.

[00:42:00] [00:42:00] So we can do those patterns, right. And sound in touch. Um, I don't think we could do them in smell. That would be weird, but you know, we have those three mediums that we can play with. Right. And when we, um, do touch through skin, it's called Viber acoustics. Um, your skin can take in, um, modulations. It's just less sensitive way, dramatically, less sensitive than our eyes in our ears.

[00:42:26] Ears are better because we can kind of like hide things, um, in, in hearing. That's why we've chosen audio, but you can also do things in light. And some of the things that we, you know, play with is, you know, doing both of those at the same time, but there's definitely, there's definitely things. For sure that that lot of, uh, that we were on the cusp of investigating and figuring out, um, and, uh, really the, the secret is, again, those modulations that allow us to control and create those patterns for [00:43:00] people.

[00:43:00] Um, you know, the one reason why we don't do light is because I think it's like one out of 18,000 people have, um, epilepsy, epilepsy. Yeah. And, and this is something that can't, that people don't have with sound. So, uh, bringing in femme is actually the safest medium for a neuromodulator at the current time.

[00:43:19] And, um, that's why, like everything is purpose built and designed, um, for safety as well as, you know, making sure that we have, you know, the right effects. Um, so, you know, there may be ways around it around, you know, epilepsy and things of that nature, but that's really the future to, to find out. Um, and yeah, I'm curious.

[00:43:39] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:39] Wow. Fantastic. I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay. Uh, again, I, as I said, I can keep you for the next six hours. And so I have just a few more questions if it's okay with you.

[00:43:52] Dan Clark: [00:43:52] Yeah, of course. This is fun. I mean, I'm very, very, I can talk about this all day.

[00:43:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:57] Oh, yay. Good. So [00:44:00] a lot of the things that you said, you know, especially looking at visual and everything, I come back to the amygdala.

[00:44:06] I come back to that notion of the spot in the brain, the process, you know, takes in what you see and takes and what you hear and decides if there's danger. And this is a strange question, but if you're a long time brain FM user, is it really just like a T turn it on, turn it off, or is it going to develop.

[00:44:29] Um, like I know that once you're in, once the groove has been developed at the neural pathway, it's, it's more likely that that, that particular neural pathway will go again. So is there ever a time that you envision that people will not need brain FM because they've developed those groups for themselves?

[00:44:46] Or is it always going to be a there's the sympathetic nervous system? There's the parasympathetic nervous system and depending on which one needs to be fired up right now, that's what the amygdala and the hypothalamus are going to do. Do you have thoughts about that? And if so, what

[00:44:58] Dan Clark: [00:44:58] are they? Yeah, [00:45:00] so we have some first notions of it.

[00:45:02] Um, but we haven't done science on long-term effects of brain FM, um, for, you know, years and years and years. Um, but we have done, uh, some, I guess, leading, um, research and that basically shows that, uh, it's kind of like running, right? So if you become really good at running that there's a certain level of speed that you can achieve.

[00:45:29] Um, that your gains are, I guess, less, um, however, if you get really, really good at running, you still have to run. Right. Um, and you can kind of think of this as almost like a wind on your back, right? So you're running and what we're doing is we're, we're helping you run faster and feel what running faster is like, um, and, and helping, you know, push you along into that.

[00:45:55] And, you know, on one side you could say, well, you know, I was [00:46:00] running six miles an hour and now we can run eight miles an hour. Um, and I know what that feels like. So I'm not going to use this, this wind or this, this effect that's helping me, you know, go two miles faster. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna get to that myself.

[00:46:15] And I think the argument would be, if you can always run faster, you know, with that way, Always run with the wind on your back. You know what I mean? Um, that might be very abstract. Um, what we're finding is that yes, um, as someone uses the product, those neural pathways develop and someone can get into higher creativity or flow state faster.

[00:46:40] Um, and I think that that is really the trigger that allows someone to get there. But I don't, I don't necessarily see this ever being someone. Now doesn't need that, where they can just close their eyes and get into it. Um, but you know, we'll, we'll have to see. Um, and, and ultimately I think that the [00:47:00] goal of what we're really looking for is not necessarily being the training wheels, but being the, uh, vehicle to help someone.

[00:47:09] Um, and, uh, that's, that's really the goal that we have. I think we would, our whole approach would be different if we were a training wheels, you know, program, um, where we want to be, okay, Hey, you don't have to run anymore. You just get in this car and we'll get you there in five minutes. And that's really the goal of, of brain FM, um, at least right now.

[00:47:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:47:31] And that was actually going to be my next, literally, what is the goal? What is your goal for the company? So, um, I do, I, you, you mentioned. That, uh, earlier about habits. I'd love to get your thoughts on the, on, on what you think in sort of an, I know you said you drive the, the person who's using the app drives the bus and they're the ones who choose.

[00:47:51] But if you have habits, if you have thoughts on what is sort of an optimal way of getting into it as a new user, I would love to know that too. But, but if somebody [00:48:00] goes, okay, I'm gonna download the app, I'm gonna see what it's like, what is the best thing? And I, and I, I just gave up caffeine. So I'm very excited to, to hear you say, well, maybe caffeine, isn't great for it.

[00:48:10] So, so tell me, what are some of the habits that someone should have, uh, in order, or might have in order to make best use of the app and habits serve their needs

[00:48:19] Dan Clark: [00:48:19] best? Yeah, of course. So I'm going to say, you know, I'll say some of my habits, but I really encourage people to develop healthy habits that they test themselves.

[00:48:27] Um, that's really important because again, everyone. So, um, the first thing is just, you know, habits. And if you haven't read, um, atomic habits is just a fantastic book that shares how habits really shape our lives. And it's just so important to have those. And again, brain FM is, is not going, it's not a magician, but it is a tool, right?

[00:48:47] So you have to make sure that you are using the tool effectively. And I think with creativity, uh, for your audience, it's very challenging to be creative on demand. Um, and the best way [00:49:00] to develop that is actually to force yourself to try, right? So building in habits of work blocks, and if you look at my calendar, what I actually have is these work sprints where I say, Hey, for the 60 minutes, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I'm going to be creative.

[00:49:22] And you know, what's challenging is when we don't feel like being creative, right. It's by training our brain that, Hey, this is a time where I do creative work and it it's creating these neural pathways. Um, and you know, you are developing how to be creative, um, on a schedule that you want to be rather than when your brain happens to be, you know, so I think that's just extremely important.

[00:49:47] And for me, what I do is I actually have deep works, uh, sessions in the morning. Um, I do, uh, I changed this all the time. So if you hear me on other podcasts, it's because I'm always experimenting myself. [00:50:00] But normally what I do is, uh, I'll put, excuse me, deep work on, in the morning for about 30 minutes or so.

[00:50:06] And in there I take out a journal and I write down the top things that I have to do today. How do I feel? And I do a complete brain dump so I can get all of the feelings and emotions and all that stuff aside. And then I say, what do I have. From there. I basically finished a session with the top things that I have to do.

[00:50:28] I take a break, um, I'll sometimes put on relax music or go for a walk or sometimes at the same time do both. And then I come back and do another working session. And what's really important is, um, you know, developing not only the habits to, you know, sit down and work or could you create a moment, um, you know, creative habits, but also having consistency.

[00:50:52] So for me, I, I drink iced coffee every day. Um, but you can drink ice tea or whatever you need to. Um, but it's really important, you know, have [00:51:00] a clean desk to have the same, because what happens is it builds all of the distractions that could happen that in a new environment, it's all erased. And then all of your energy, you know, using brain FM is then focused into, okay, this is the task that I have in front.

[00:51:19] And what's cool about, you know, again, the tool is not only do we have all of this science and all of these different kinds of things, we also have different tricks that allow you to get engaged. So we actually use 3d spatial technology. Um, so a lot of our music sounds like it's actually coming slightly in front of you, which is almost like drawing your attention to the work that you're doing.

[00:51:40] Um, I forgot to mention that before, but you know, through a combination of habits and then, you know, getting like going to the gym, right. That's, that's really what you're doing. Um, it allows you to constantly perform and then once you're constantly performing, it really helps you break through to the next.

[00:52:01] [00:52:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:52:01] Sure. At some point you hit a plateau, I guess. And then, then from there, that's the springboard up to the next and the next and the next. And I, I love that. Uh, let me, let me ask you, this is you've, you've mentioned, you've mentioned bits and pieces, but I'd love to know what your, what your Dan, what your mission is for, for your company.

[00:52:23] What is the mission that you have long-term to change the

[00:52:28] Dan Clark: [00:52:28] world? Yeah, so the, the real mission is to empower everyone around the world to be their best self on demand, full stop, you know, um, I think a lot of people in life, um, you know, through different kinds of mechanisms, they never, they, they get obstructed from their goals and they, they get obstructed by the goals by having maybe, you know, previous failures or having writer's block or, you know, um, motivation block, or maybe it's just being.

[00:52:59] Too into their [00:53:00] goals and being too stressed out where they need a perspective change or they can't sleep. You know? And, and what I, what I believe truly is that if we enable people to be their best self and whatever that means for that individual, whether it means curing, um, or not necessarily caring, but helping them treat, you know, um, their sleep challenges or helping them achieve flow state when they want to, or helping them chill out because they work really, really hard and they just need to take 10 minute breaks.

[00:53:30] Um, if we can do that, then collectively as a human race, we enable everyone to help each other more effectively. And if I can be the, um, I don't know, the, the conduit to allow people to really unlock their true potential. Um, that's my mission in life and also mission at brain-a-thon.

[00:53:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:53:57] I'm taking all of this in. That was, that was lovely. [00:54:00] Uh, and I love, I love the notion of collective change based on everybody feeling better, being better and doing better. My, my, my word for this, for this year. And hopefully for the next 40, 60, 80 years is compassion. And it sounds to me like compassion for yourself.

[00:54:24] If you start with yourself, then it, then things, you know, things sort of flow from there. And with brain FM, How, what is the thought for you there? As far as you know, you're doing relaxation, you're doing sleep and you're doing focus. What about in gendering feelings of joy or, or feelings of compassion or anything like that?

[00:54:49] Like can, can the app, is that something that you would ever be interested in in helping people with someone who might have challenges of depression or anxiety to, [00:55:00] to address some of those challenges with this

[00:55:04] Dan Clark: [00:55:04] app? Yeah, it's, it's a great, great question. Um, and we, we are definitely working on it. I can tell you that.

[00:55:11] Um, it's, it's a little bit, it's, it's complicated. Um, I, I guess it's the simplest way. Um, and that reason is because joy is derived from things. Um, and if we gave someone artificial joy, That doesn't necessarily fix where joy comes from, you know, and I think that as we look at it and we peel this back, um, joy also means different things for different people and how they experience joy.

[00:55:41] So it's a very convoluted challenge. And one of the reasons why we, we specifically don't say, we can make you happy, but we can help you focus, which will make you happy. Um, the, our angle on that is, is again, if we can help people be better or more efficient in [00:56:00] the activities they're doing, then they can move one step closer to treating, um, certain core problems, I guess, or core challenges.

[00:56:13] Um, and we, we definitely have people that have, have, you know, touted us as the cure, as their personal care for, you know, depression or, um, really, really challenging times in their life. Um, we have many, many people that write to us about that. Um, but I, I don't, because again, we're science first. I don't feel comfortable ever saying that we are the cure for that, but we can help people achieve it and we'll help them look for it together kind of thing.

[00:56:40] Um, unless something changes in our research.

[00:56:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:56:45] Interesting. And that just made me come back to the question of awareness. Like self-awareness when, when I'm using the app, one of the things that happens is that there is that there is again, that flow state where Ty and I love that [00:57:00] state when time passed and you don't realize time has passed, you know, because you've been working so into what you're doing, but then there's a self-awareness aspect of it.

[00:57:08] And that's the slowing down. And the difference there for me is sort of the sympathetic versus the parasympathetic nervous system. So in the relaxation part, what happens if, if you, if you have any data on this, what happens to people's sense of self when they're in that relaxed state? Not so much the focus state, but the relaxed one?

[00:57:29] Dan Clark: [00:57:29] Uh, yeah. Great question. Um, it's something that w you know, we, we do have to do more research in, um, the, the challenging stuff with gathering data for. Some of those states is that it's very personal and introspective and there's not a lot of site like, like purely scientific, like, uh, analysis to like, you know, figure that out.

[00:57:55] Um, it's more, it's more of a personal thing, but you [00:58:00] know, with, with flow state, with relaxation, with meditation, I think, you know, self-awareness is really what happens from it because it's a perspective change. And I I'm I'm want to be certain and say that this is me talking about myself personally, but I think when I breached these higher states or these more developed states that I'm currently, you know, operating in, it allows me to really be, uh, you know, turned into more of an observer as, you know, you're working or as you're relaxing and.

[00:58:31] Break the cycle of doing, and now the cycle of, you know, understanding a little bit, um, which enables us to, you know, work on ourselves. Um, I, this actually reminds me of the habits thing, and I think what's interesting is that, you know, humans are really the only animals that can look at themselves and change anything about themselves that they want to, including their habits and the way they think and all of that.

[00:58:58] And when we go [00:59:00] to the deepest level, um, it's us first wanting to change us saying, I am going to change, and this is a plan that I'm going to do. I'm not going to say that to myself anymore. I'm going to do this instead. And then, you know, work and correct it and build, and you know, that's, what's inspiring and why I want, you know, personally, and then why the company is set up to help people be their best self.

[00:59:24] Because if we can do that, we can allow people to work. All the other things that, um, you know, people can really, you know, dive into and, and, um, you know, brain FM is just definitely not the one-stop solution. It's one of many tools, but, um, you know, it definitely enables people to, um, unlock different levels that they didn't maybe know they had and then start questioning and, and, you know, bettering and, and, um, exploring.

[00:59:57] And I think that's, um, you [01:00:00] know, an exploration and mindfulness or whatever it may be. Um, and it's a personal journey journey.

[01:00:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:00:07] It does sound like it's an individual journey. And it's one that I think I come back to the notion of small steps are still steps. Right? So if you, if you do it 100%, you build the habit of it.

[01:00:20] That, yeah. It just makes, it makes all the difference in the world because you always, like you said, you come, you eventually get to that plateau where you're like, okay, now I'm ready for the next level, the next step. And, and it sounds like brain FM. And it certainly, I mean, for me, you know, I'm a convert. I love, I love the, the state of being able to focus pretty deeply on the things that I choose to focus on instead of being distracted away from things.

[01:00:49] So I think that, because we're hyper-stimulated and I wonder about that. I know again, I told you only a few more questions, but there is something here to me that [01:01:00] we are living in a really hyper-stimulated. World where there's stuff coming at us all the time, whether it's texts or social media or the, you know, the streetlights or whatever, when, when you're in that state of hyperstimulation and you put in the headphones or the earbuds or whatever, and you put on brain FM, is there ever a war between the hyperstimulation of all the stuff going on around you versus what brain FM helps you do?

[01:01:30] And if so, how does that work?

[01:01:33] Dan Clark: [01:01:33] Yeah, so, you know, really, I wouldn't necessarily say it a war, but we are. The mirror of the environment that we're in. Right? So, you know, when we're in, we're surrounded by technology, we're surrounded by distractions. And because of that, our brain is hyperactive. It's, it's always bouncing around different things.

[01:01:54] What do you put in brain FM what's happening is you're changing your environment first for sound. [01:02:00] So you're kind of insulating yourself and escaping a little bit of some of the things. And especially with sound canceling headphones, it's like the perfect fit. Um, and then because of that, then you start mirroring a different environment.

[01:02:13] And this new environment is the music and the different kinds of science in the music, which enables us to truly have a different response to a different ed environment. Um, And then that has the effect. Um, you know, as we talked about that's triggers these other actions.

[01:02:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:02:32] Yeah. Yeah. I liked the entrainment that you mentioned earlier,

[01:02:35] Dan Clark: [01:02:35] 100%.

[01:02:36] You got it.

[01:02:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:02:36] Right, right, right, right. Got it. Okay. Yeah, that was, that was, I was like, Hmm. There was one other little thing that I wanted to make sure about. And I'm so glad that you addressed it. Well, Dan. Thrilled to pieces that you took the time to be here. And I would love it. If you wouldn't mind give speaking of hyperstimulation, if you could give where someone who's [01:03:00] going, I need brain FM, where they can find you, if you have social media channels or anything like that, that, that someone who wants to know more could go to, I would love it.

[01:03:08] If you'd say what those are, there'll be in the show notes, but people learn differently as we both know. So I'd love it. If you could say it so people can hear it too. Yeah.

[01:03:15] Dan Clark: [01:03:15] Yeah, of course. So you can go onto the app stores and download bringing data FM, or you can go to brain.fm. Um, so it's, it's just, you know, brain.fm and that'll bring you to our website, which, um, we actually have free trials for everyone to do no credit card required, um, which allows people to fully feel the music with no pressure or stress or anything like that.

[01:03:38] Um, and really see, is this something that, um, they can integrate it into their life? Um, so, you know, if you're interested, feel free to give it a shot. Um, it is something that, um, you know, I personally, uh, love and still use every single day and so to a many other million people. So I'm very excited to be here and, uh, [01:04:00] really enjoyed the conversation.

[01:04:01] Um, and I'll definitely, uh, have to come back to that.

[01:04:05] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:04:05] Oh, that's great. I appreciate it. And do you have time for one more question?

[01:04:09] Dan Clark: [01:04:09] Sure. One more. Let's

[01:04:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:04:10] do it. Okay. It's a simple question. I ask everyone who's on the show. It's really simple, but it, I find that it yields some profound answers. And here's the question.

[01:04:20] If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?

[01:04:26] Dan Clark: [01:04:26] Oh, uh, that's not a simple question. Um, I let's see if I had an airplane to write anything in the sky. What would I say? Um, I don't know. Uh I'm I, you probably can't write paragraphs in the sky, huh? Um, I know, I, I don't know.

[01:04:45] I would just, it's all it, like, it all comes down to really passion, I think. Um, and, and, and belief. And I think that I always encourage people to find, uh, the thing that [01:05:00] makes them, you know, really alive and feels like they're doing things, um, and really, um, you know, allows them to be that. And, you know, there may be some people hearing this that are in a job that maybe they love, or they don't love, but it allows them to do something that they love.

[01:05:17] And I think that's, you know, that's really important and, and allowing people to be better again, um, finding passion and, and wanting to be better, um, allows people to do that. Um, I think maybe I would refine that word and say curious, um, you know, curiosity, you know, curious to be better curious to fully explore life.

[01:05:39] Um, I think that's something that, um, you know, I I'm sure everyone listening to this podcast already shares, but I'd love it. Um, you know, if the world was more curious as a whole.

[01:05:50] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:05:50] All right. I think be more curious is probably a really good thing to say up in the sky. Uh, Dan, Dan, once again, thank you so much.

[01:05:57] I appreciate you being here. This [01:06:00] is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. This has been an incredible conversation. I'm so thrilled that Dan Clark joined me. If you want to know more about brain FM, you know what to do, go find it, go download it, go use it. I personally love it until next time I remind you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[01:06:24] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[01:06:41] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can [01:07:00] always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.

 

Never Lose Another Idea Again

How To Never Lose Another Idea Again

Keep track of your ideas all in one easy-to-access place.

This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*

URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset

If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset

 

If you're like me and you have too many ideas bubbling up to keep track of all of them in your head, you need the Idea Doc. I designed it for myself to keep my ideas, things I want to ponder, and quick to-dos on track and in one easy-to-access place.

Why might you want to have this one easy place to keep track of all your ideas?

Here are just a few reasons.

1. It can clarify your stance on things
2. They can give you more fodder for what you’re already working on
3. They can give you perspective and clarity
4. They can help you innovate, make changes, gain focus, or even not do a thing if that’s what you decide.
5. But that’s the thing. Because you have your ideas in one place, you do get to decide what you’re going to do with them.

Grab the Idea Doc here. It's free, and I hope it helps you create and innovate your way into your juiciest and most wonderful work and life.

Connect with me

https://Instagram.com/IzoldaT

https://www.linkedin.com/in/izoldat/

https://twitter.com/IzoldaT

 

8-16-21 Idea Doc

[00:00:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I don't want to forget ideas and I get stressed that I might forget them. So to alleviate the stress, I need a place to jot them down.

[00:00:12] Hi, and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. You get my conversations with peak-performing thought leaders, creatives, and entrepreneurs. We explore how you can innovate through creativity, compassion, and collaboration. I believe that innovation combined with compassion and creative thinking can save the world and I aim to bring you ways.

[00:00:35] You can do it too. If you're enjoying the show, I'd be super grateful. If you can support it by buying me a cup of coffee, you can buy me a cup of@buymeacoffee.com slash Izolda tea. And now let's get on with the show.

[00:00:56] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. [00:01:00] I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg and I'm super happy that you're here, that you've taken the time to spend a little part of your day with me. I have just celebrated. 400 episodes. This is a few more than 400 right now, and I'm still incredibly excited to be talking about innovation and creativity and how we can use both to change the world.

[00:01:21] One of the things that's been happening is, and one of the things that I find most gratifying, I'll be honest is when someone takes the time to leave a review. And I decided that I want to thank publicly the people who leave a show review. And this week it's from Joseph E. Bennett. Here's what Joseph had to say.

[00:01:44] This is so damned inspiring. I just love this podcast. There's so much wisdom in what you is older and your guests bring forth and share so openly with us. Thank you much Lee, for all of it. And what an incredible accomplishment that you've just released. The 400th. [00:02:00] You're such a gift to all your listeners.

[00:02:02] Joseph, thank you so much for that wonderful review. I really appreciate it. And I am so grateful to you that you listen. To the guests who come on the show and talk and give their wisdom. So generously, I'm very happy, very thrilled, and very excited that I get to keep doing this. And I'm going to keep doing it.

[00:02:20] As long as podcasts are around. Speaking of keeping the podcast around this episode is brought to you by brain FM. Or rather than brain.fm. If you go to the website, this is an app that I have been talking about a lot. Actually. I love it. I use it every day. This app combines music and neuroscience, two of my little bits of catnip there to help me focus, meditate.

[00:02:47] And even sleep. And what's really cool is that they just recently got a, an NSF national science foundation grant to study how brain FM can be used to help patients in hospitals and other [00:03:00] places where this neuroscience that really works with your brain's own super power. To 10 X, your ability to, as I said, meditate or focus, do creative things, sleep, whatever it is you're trying to do, brain FM will likely be able to help you.

[00:03:16] I think anyway, if you listen to the show and you do, because you're here, you can get a free trial by going to. Brain.fm/innovative mindset, all one word. And if you love it as much as I do, and you decide you want to get it for yourself, you can get a 20% off with this exclusive coupon code. And that is innovative mindset.

[00:03:39] Again, all one word. And if you want to know more about brain FM straight from the source. The company's CEO, Dan Clark is next week's guest on the show. In fact, that's how I found out about brain FM is they asked if, uh, if Dan could come on the show and talk about it. And I was so fascinated by what he was saying and, and, and what [00:04:00] the app does that I have become an evangelist for it.

[00:04:02] I love, love, love it. And if you want to learn more about it next week, Dan Clark will be on the show. Alrighty. So now let's talk about this. Week's thoughts about ideas. If you're anything like I am, your mind is always going and your brain is always firing and tons of thoughts are coming at you every second of every day, I think.

[00:04:26] And you've heard me say this on the show before we're hyper-stimulated we've got so much stuff coming at us. Right. All the time, everything from advertisements to your child who needs you to, uh, feed or change them, right. Everything a to Z it's coming at you all the time. And that can be a cool, because.

[00:04:50] There are lots of opportunities for inspiration, for example, right? If there are lots of stimuli, then, then you can get inspired by some of them, but it can also be frustrating because the second something [00:05:00] inspires you, something else comes in to take its place. And last for me, anyway, it can be daunting because the second you've got a new thought or idea, it can fly right out as fast as it came in.

[00:05:11] Because again, something else came in it's just gone and that sort of begs the question. Why keep all these ideas, right? What's in it for you to keep track of all those ideas from the hyperstimulation, from your own thoughts, from journaling, whatever it is that you're doing, you get these ideas. What's in it for you to keep them.

[00:05:34] So here are my thoughts about that. And I have a list. One, it can clarify your stance on things like what your perspective is, what your point of view is too. It can give you more fodder for what you're already working on. Right? You can get new perspectives, new ways of doing things, new solution. Things like that three, it can give you clarity.

[00:05:56] You can get perspective on things that are, that have been in a sort of a gray [00:06:00] area. And what you need is clarity. You need to clear, clear things up in your own mind, those new ideas that you might get, those things that you might ponder. They're they're helpful for that for they can help you innovate, make changes, gain, focus, and even not do a thing.

[00:06:16] If that's what you decide, right. By getting more information by letting your mind wander and by letting those ideas bubble up. But that's the thing, because you have your ideas in one place, you do get to decide. What you're going to do with them. And that brings me to not forgetting ideas, right? I don't want to forget ideas and I get stressed that I might forget them.

[00:06:39] So to alleviate the stress, I need a place to jot them down and I don't want it to be on paper, frankly, because I Lu I'm a notorious paper loser. I will lose a small piece of paper faster than you can blink. I don't want to do that, but I also don't need an app specifically for this, because there are plenty of those.

[00:06:58] Right. But they, but they all [00:07:00] seem to have these huge processes. Right. For, for, you know, in order to do that, that you have to tap here and you have to click there and you have to do the hokey pokey. So I wanted something for fast ideas and I don't need a big lengthy step-by-step I just need a place to jot them.

[00:07:17] So it might be for me. And this is something to think about, you know, what, what new ideas do you have? Uh, for me it might be a new idea for a new product or a project or a book or a song or whatever my brain cooks up. Right. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm like, ah, I have to remember this.

[00:07:35] And there are there again. One of the things that's really good as you can keep a journal by your bed or an open by your bed. And that's really great. But then you can't search it. And that's something I want to talk about in a minute. So. This idea that you might have might be grand, it might be world changing, or it might be a new thought that you want to put up on Instagram stories or a new guests.

[00:07:58] That for me, that I might want to have on the [00:08:00] show, right. It might be something I want to ponder that came to me during my journaling or meditation, or while I'm riding the subway. Be reading a book and I want a quick place to shot, jot down a realization or an aha moment. Those happened to me all the time.

[00:08:13] And again, writing the notes in the margins of the book is really cool, except for you're messing with the book, but also how do you search. Right. If you write a note in the margin of the book, you're going to have to go back and dog ear the page. Oh, I dog-eared page 2 29 and now I want to find it again.

[00:08:31] That becomes a little problematic. If all you need to do is go back real quickly and in a snap, you know, get what you need to get. So I might need. A space to do those ideas, or I might even need a spot to note down that tonight is recycling night or that I have to remember to give my cat his meds. Cause Zephyr kitten looks like he might be on meds for the rest of his life.

[00:08:55] Cause he doesn't make tears. It's very, the vet is a little confused about how that's [00:09:00] happening, but anyway, It, even if it's not a crucial project deadline, though, it could be, if it's a quick thing to note and remember, I want to have somewhere where I can keep things and search them and figure all that stuff out.

[00:09:12] So whatever it is, I need a place and a way to categorize them quickly because otherwise it's a time suck or a time waste. And I don't got time for that. Right. So again, there are apps like to do whist or clear or Asana or click up or Trello, and they're all good. But many with the possible exception of clear there, they're really complicated.

[00:09:37] And all I want to do is jot something down and keep track of a new idea. That becomes again, more of a time suck than I want. When all I want to do is just get in there, write it down, get out. So I rolled up my sleeves and I made one for myself. And I'm going to share it with you. Let me tell you about the world changers idea document.

[00:09:59] [00:10:00] That's what I decided to call it because Doug on it, I believe we can each change the world in our own little way. All it is. Is, and I shouldn't say all it is because it was kind of, it was cool to come up with what I thought I needed. It's super simple, super easy, super easy to access. As long as you have a Google account and let's face it, many of us do.

[00:10:21] So it's a Google sheet where you can place all the ideas. The ponderings the little to do things that bubble up for you during the day, you can access this. Document from the show notesPage@httpscolonslashslashisoldat.com slash idea document. And basically this document is around for you. So you won't lose your ideas ever.

[00:10:50] You'll always have a clean, easy to use searchable space where all your best ideas go to be picked up and run with when you're ready. Right. It's not a [00:11:00] document. Keep for me personally, as older it's, it's something that I'm given out to you for free, just so that you can keep track of all your ideas so that, that therefore you, when you're ready for them.

[00:11:15] And basically I never want to lose another idea again. So here's how to use it first, go grab the idea doc, and you'll notice that it's read only, and that way you get your very own copy and no one else who downloads the idea document can enter data on your copy and vice versa. That's why it's personal.

[00:11:34] It's private, it's all yours. And it's just my gift to you. And here's how to get yours. Once you're at the read only document. File and then select, make a copy and then Google sheets we'll make one for you and then rename it to whatever you want it to be. I like world changers idea document just because I'm out to change the world, but you want to be sure that the folder says my drive.

[00:11:58] Cause it's your drive then that you're [00:12:00] saving to not mine, not as old as, and rename it to whatever you want. You should just be able to use it. And the columns in it are simple. And actually, if you go to the show notes page, there's a, there's an image that shows you all that they are, they're not hard, but they're really useful, right?

[00:12:17] So the columns are simple. The first one on the left is date. That's the date. You got the idea or the thing that you want her to do, or the thing that you wanted to think about all you have to do on one line of the idea document is click the cell in that date column, and a date selector will pop up and you can just note that.

[00:12:35] Choose that date. And then you move on. Or the next column is what did you think up? That's literally what it's called. Here's where you enter the idea, the, to do item or the philosophical pondering about the nature of the universe that you want to think about, whatever it is that you want to write in that, that slot do that.

[00:12:53] The next column will help you categorize the three types that I wanted to keep track of. And [00:13:00] again, this is designed to be super simple and easy. It's not something that's got a lot of different ways of doing it. It's really simple. The idea type column has these three possible choices. There's a Delta for idea type.

[00:13:14] Um, there's an infinity symbol for ponder this and an asterisk for do this. And you just choose one. So if, if you got an idea for a new project or an, uh, a new product, or if you're a writer for a new book, you would put her, you would select Delta for idea, because it's being in motion, the infinity symbol, if you're like, oh, I've always wondered.

[00:13:36] How much lefties can use the right hand, but don't or how much righties can use their left hand, but don't because society tells us we shouldn't use our left hand still to this day. Unfortunately, I'm a lefty and there are still, uh, not as many accessible lefty oriented products out there that should change anything.

[00:13:57] So then the last [00:14:00] one is a to do, right. It's really simple. It's like, oh, I have to remember to do this. So do it. And one of the things that you'll notice is that each category is color-coded so you can easily see whether or not you're, uh, these are ideas mostly or separate them out. The ideas are the to-do items or the ponderings, whatever it is personally.

[00:14:22] I love, I love stats. I love figuring out that kind of thing, but also you can sort them and see all the ideas in one place or all the to-do items and, you know, in, in a row, if you will. And I like seeing all my ideas together because they often flow one into the. And I like seeing all my to-do items together, because then I know how to approach them and which ones I need to approach first, but you don't necessarily think of them that way.

[00:14:47] So this is a nice way to keep them all in one place. That's easy to access and then sort them out so that you can see everything the way you want to. And. Here's my invitation to you. Anytime you get an idea, [00:15:00] you head to your idea document and you note it down. So you'll never forget something important again, because how often they, they say, you know, oh, Dog on it.

[00:15:10] I'm just gonna remember this. I will, I will. And then it's gone. Right? And you don't want that. You want it to be something that is readily available to you the next time you want it. So I wanted to make something a little bit easier. I want her to make it easy to access. So I've added a shortcut to the doc on my iPhone.

[00:15:31] That way I can access it super quickly when ever I need it. So the way to do that is you go to your idea document in Google drive. Once you've, once you've copied it over, you tap the three dots or more and scroll down to copy link. You tap that, then go to the shortcuts app. That's on every idea. Tap the plus at the top, right.

[00:15:53] Then tap the three dots on the top. Right. And you'll see a screen that asks you for the short cuts name, but [00:16:00] first tap, add action, and then tap apps. That should be in the top left corner. I hate it when they don't, till they say tap this, but they don't tell you where it is. So you spend time looking, scroll down until you see safari, then tap safari, scroll down until you see open URL.

[00:16:16] Tap that then paste the link that you'd copied before from the Google, from the Google sheets, then tap next. You should now see a shortcut with a cursor to the left of a great out short cut name, name it idea, dog or ideas, and then tap, add to home screen and then tap. And a check mark should appear briefly on your screen that shows you that it happened, tap done, and then you can also select it to show in the share sheet or on your apple watch if you have one.

[00:16:45] So when you go back to your home screen, you should see your ideas doc there, and it'll be like purple or blue. And there are two sort of vertical diamond type things on, on the icon. And now you can access it easily. Anytime you [00:17:00] need to. I know that there's a, probably the same kind of thing for Android, but I'll be honest.

[00:17:05] I don't know how to do it. So if you happen to know how to add a shortcut to your home screen on an Android, do me a favor and let me know, and I'll add it to the show notes later. Here's the thing, once you've done all this, I recommend that you go through your idea doc, once a week to make sure there isn't anything that's fallen off your radar.

[00:17:23] And also to make sure that it doesn't get too cluttered with things you don't want or need to do anything with or about this is to help you keep track of the things going on inside. Keep the best lose the rest. Granted these tiny ideas might not end up being world changers, but I'll bet many innovators and entrepreneurs and creators have gotten ideas they've lost.

[00:17:44] Right? I'm sure you have to you. Oh, this is a great idea. I want to hold on and. And I know that some people say that you'll remember the really good ones. So the ones you forget probably weren't that great to begin with, but I don't agree. I think the ideas deserve to have their own moment in the sun. [00:18:00] You might put them down after you look at them a little bit more carefully, but you've got to give your imagination and creative impulse, the benefit of that, of the doubt, you know, give your subconscious.

[00:18:10] A chance to float those ideas by you. So you can take a look at them and if you give yourself and those ideas of benefit of the doubt, that is when you never know some brilliant thing that you were on a or wanted to do, or wanted to think up and create will be there. For you to make it blossom. And the idea document is really the perfect way to do it.

[00:18:34] It's simple. It's easy to use and it's all yours. If you have questions about how to do it or how to use it, drop me a line. You can find me DME at Izolda T on Instagram or Twitter. I'm at his old a T there. Those are probably the two best places. Also. I'm at Izolda T on LinkedIn. Feel free. This document is, is, is my gift to you.

[00:18:56] I want you to go ahead and enjoy using it. And [00:19:00] if you find the wait, you know what, this could be improved upon. You can improve upon it. But if you want to tell me, I would love to improve upon it too. It's what, it's the bare basics of what I thought. Would be useful, but if you have something else that's useful, I would love to hear about it.

[00:19:16] All right, cool. So that is my thoughts about noting down the creative impulses and the ideas that we have so that we don't lose them and never lose another idea again. I hope that you've enjoyed this wee little episode next week, as I said, is Dan Clark. Who's the CEO of brain FM. And, uh, really, I, I don't, I would never, uh, endorse something that I didn't use and love, and I both use and love.

[00:19:49] This app, I just it's, I've found that it has just put my productivity and my creativity into the stratosphere and [00:20:00] considering my hypothyroidism and that I get tired pretty easily. It's really nice to feel like. Yeah. I've got this. I can do all the things that I've been dreaming of doing, because my brain works so much more efficiently and so much more creatively.

[00:20:13] I just love that. And you know, it ties really nicely into this idea document because then all those creative things can go right into the idea document for me to get to when I need to. All right. If you're, if you enjoyed this episode, if you download the idea, doc, I would love to hear from you. And if you really love the show, Or even if you don't really love the show, just if you like the show, please go ahead and leave a review wherever you listen.

[00:20:42] I don't know how many actually, how many different platforms allow you to leave a review? I know that apple podcasts does. So if you want to leave a review, I would love to hear from you. Yeah. And, uh, and also what you think of the idea document, and if you start using brain FM and you want to [00:21:00] let me know about that too, I would love to hear about that too.

[00:21:03] So until next time, I just want to tell you that I'm grateful that you're listening and I hope that you've enjoyed the show and will continue to enjoy it for many years to come until next time. This is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast, reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, love.

[00:21:23] Innovate a whole lot.

[00:21:30] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[00:21:47] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg in his copyright 2021 as. Please remember this is for educational [00:22:00] and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results. Although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.