Your Creative Mind

Gene Baur, Co-Founder of Farm Sanctuary and Bestselling Author

Gene Baur on the Animal Rights Movement, Big Agriculture, and Critical Thinking
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Gene Baur has been hailed as “the conscience of the food movement” by Time magazine. Since the mid-1980s, he has traveled extensively, campaigning to raise awareness about the abuses of industrialized factory farming and our system of cheap food production.
A pioneer in the field of undercover investigations and farm animal rescue, Gene has visited hundreds of farms, stockyards, and slaughterhouses, documenting the deplorable conditions, and his rescue work inspired an international farm sanctuary movement.
He played a key role in the first-ever cruelty conviction at a U.S. stockyard and enacting the first U.S. laws to prohibit cruel farming systems.
Gene has published two bestsellers, Farm Sanctuary: Changing Hearts and Minds About Animals and Food (Simon and Schuster, 2008) and Living the Farm Sanctuary Life (Rodale, 2015), which he co-authored with Forks Over Knives author Gene Stone. Through his ongoing writing, activism, and speaking engagements, Gene continues working to expose the abuses of factory farming and to advocate for a just and sustainable plant-based food system.
Connect with Gene
https://www.farmsanctuary.org/
https://www.instagram.com/genebaur/
https://www.instagram.com/farmsanctuary/
Other links
https://www.localharvest.org/csa/
 
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Gene Baur: A lot of the information we receive is more marketing than accurate descriptions of reality. And so I think just the first thing is to be discerning and to recognize that just because we read something doesn't necessarily mean we should believe it.
[00:00:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM, brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.
[00:00:40] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset to check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let's get to the show.[00:01:00]
[00:01:00] Yes.
[00:01:04] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm your host and I'm thrilled. You're here and I'm so honored to have this week's guest. I've got to tell you about this gentlemen. I'm so I'm a little nervous. I'll be. Yeah. But here we go. So gene Bauer has been hailed as the conscience of the food movement by time magazine, since the mid 1980s, he's traveled extensively campaigning to raise awareness about the abuses of industrialized factory farming and our system of cheap food production.
[00:01:33] And you know, how close to my heart that is a pioneer in the field of undercover investigations and farmers. Eugene has visited hundreds of farms, stockyards and slaughterhouses documenting the deplorable conditions and his rescue work inspired an international farm sanctuary movement. He played a key role in the first ever cruelty conviction at a us stock yard and enacting the first us laws to prohibit cruel farming systems.
[00:01:57] Yes, Gina's published two [00:02:00] bestseller. Farm sanctuary, changing hearts and minds about animals and food. It's by Simon and Schuster and living the farm sanctuary life in 2015, which he co-authored with forks over knives, author, Jean Stone, through his ongoing writing activism and speaking engagements. Jean continues working to expose the abuses of factory farming and to advocate for adjust and sustainable plant-based food system.
[00:02:23] Again. Yes, Jean I'm so grateful and honored that you're here. Thank you so much for being.
[00:02:28] Gene Baur: Oh, thank you. It's old. It's great to be with you. And I, and I love talking about these issues, so I'm very, very much looking forward to this.
[00:02:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I, I have so many questions, but I really want to start at the beginning.
[00:02:40] What, what did it for you? You know, there's, there's a moment at which you decide the kind of person you're going to be and who you're going to stand up for. What was it for you that made you think to yourself? You know what? I'm going to do this. This is going to become my life.
[00:02:55] Gene Baur: You know, it, it, there was really never any one moment.
[00:02:58] It was a [00:03:00] series of moments. And I think the initial thinking was, I just don't want to cause unnecessary harm in the world. And it started actually even before farm sanctuary, you know, I was born in 1962, so I grew up with Vietnam on television. I grew up during the cold war about all these worries and stories about, you know, The violence, the violence in the world just bothered me and I didn't want to be part of it.
[00:03:23] So as I learned about the food system, I came to recognize the enormous violence there and you know, in high school for a short time, I stopped eating animals. When, when I had come home once and my mother had made a chicken dinner and I saw the light, the bird, you know, full legs and wings attached on his or her back on the plate.
[00:03:45] And that turned me off from eating meat for a while. But that, that vision kind of faded over time. Then I got back to the old habit of eating animals. And then in 1985, I traveled around the country. I started spending time with activists, learning more about [00:04:00] factory farming and recognizing it was possible to live with.
[00:04:03] Killing and eating other animals and that, and I went vegan. And then in 1986, you know, I felt that people just are unaware of what is happening in the food system. And people are unwittingly supporting violence and abuse every day. And you know, our original thinking was that if we could. Document and expose what was happening and show people they would decide not to eat out.
[00:04:26] So that was kind of the simple thing. And this is in 1980. And so we started going to farms and stock yards in slaughterhouses to document conditions. And we would find living animals thrown in trash cans or on piles of dead animals. So we started rescuing them and that's how the sanctuaries began. But at the time we didn't really have.
[00:04:45] Like a five-year vision or a 10 year vision. It was just a series of events. You know, like finding Hilda, for example, a sheep could have been left on a pile of dead animals that then led us to recognize how Hilda and other [00:05:00] farm animals could become ambassadors, because people wanted to hear her story.
[00:05:03] We wanted to hear about where she came from. And then we could tell that story and educate people about the abuses of animal agriculture. And so it's been a whole process. You know, and, and that process continues. When we started, there were no other farm sanctuaries. So we were the first and there are now hundreds around the world, which is great, but we also, I think, need to critically evaluate how can these sanctuaries have the biggest impact possible.
[00:05:29] And ultimately, you know, we said this in the early days, and I'll say it again today is ideally we would love to put ourselves out of business. You know, it would be. If there was no need for sanctuaries, right. But, but there is at this time because billions of farm animals are exploited and treated horribly and we need to speak out against that.
[00:05:50] We need to model different kinds of relationships with that. Yeah. As friends, not food, which, which I think is one of the key messages of farm sanctuary is [00:06:00] that these animals deserve respect. They deserve to be treated with kindness and doing so as good for the animals. And it's also good for us. So, so, you know, it's an ongoing evolution.
[00:06:11] And in addition to trying to inspire individual choices we are recently. Re-engaging in efforts to change the food system, which I think can have significant.
[00:06:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking a second to take it all in. Wow. Okay. So I, first of all, yes. And thank you. That's actually that recognition of what I was eating of, what I was putting in my mouth is what made me go vegan many years ago and something that I'm hearing you say, and I love that you're hearing that you're saying it this way is.
[00:06:48] You're not talking about eating meat, you're talking about eating animals, even that I don't know if it's a conscious choice on your part, but even that is an awareness raiser. So I'm wondering [00:07:00] when you do that, when you speak to people, when you're doing not, let's talk about the direct action later, because I'll get so angry, I'll have to run out of the room and scream for a minute.
[00:07:09] But when you're speaking to people and you are trying to open hearts and. How conscious are you of your mindset of what you are trying to educate them on?
[00:07:25] Gene Baur: You know, it, it really depends on the particular venue and, you know, here, we're just sort of talking like friends, you know? And so when I say animals, Honestly, I wasn't even conscious of that.
[00:07:36] I was just expressing, you know, the humans are eating other animals and it's something that we need to critically evaluate. Right. But you know, when I've done media, I will sometimes also talk about eating animals. And I think that puts it in very stark terms because people don't think about the animals.
[00:07:54] And so I think it's a habit I've somewhat gotten into. Being particularly [00:08:00] conscious of it, at least at this point over the years, it has been something that, you know, I've thought a lot about and how do we best reach people? How do we best connect with people? How do we build bridges of understanding instead of putting up walls that cause people to say, don't tell me I don't want it.
[00:08:17] Right. And I think this is one of the things actually that sanctuaries do. And it would tie into the idea of talking about eating animals or not eating animals is that at the sanctuary is, are clearly animals, individuals, cows, pigs, chickens. They're not that different than cats or dogs or even humans.
[00:08:37] And so the sanctuary world. Yeah. Affords us the opportunity to talk about animals as individuals in a fairly robust and impactful way, and that then can be applied to the food system and the lives that animals and humans experience at sanctuaries are very different [00:09:00] than those that are experienced in the food system.
[00:09:03] And at the sanctuary. The animals are our friends. We interact with them in positive ways. There has been research done to show that when we interact with our dogs or other animals in positive ways, like petting our dog, for example, it helps to lower our stress levels, lower our breath, blood pressure.
[00:09:21] It's good for us. And it's good for the animals. And I would say the same thing about sanctuaries is that these are a, win-win when good for us. Good for other animals. Whereas you compare that to the factory farming system. And I sometimes ask people to consider what it would be like to work in a slaughterhouse.
[00:09:40] You know, this is something that is obviously horrible for other animals, but I would also. Suggested it is bad for people and it causes us to lose our humanity and our empathy. So, so the factory farming system is bad for everybody involved, I believe. And I think in the vegan animal rights [00:10:00] movement, there has been a recent sort of evolution towards looking at the system more holistically.
[00:10:06] Looking at, in some cases, people who are participating in these violent acts as cogs in a wheel and have in many cases, sort of disempowered individuals without agency who are in some ways, even acting outside of their own interests outside of their own values and, and humanity and, you know, figuring out systemic.
[00:10:28] Yeah. How do we replace our current violent extractive system with one that is based more on mutuality. One that is good for us. Good for other animals. Good for the earth. Because if you step back and think about it, you know, the way we grow food and consume in this country today, we're eating food that is making us sick.
[00:10:50] It's been estimated. We could save 70% on health care. By shifting to a whole foods, plant-based diet 70%. We could prevent [00:11:00] millions of premature deaths every year. We could also save enormous amounts of land and biodiversity and ecosystems by shifting away from animal agriculture to plant based in the S.
[00:11:13] 10 times more land is used for animal agriculture versus plant-based. And then of course, animals who are not being exploited and killed also do better when we're not eating them. So this is a win-win across the board. And I think right now we're at a position, especially with concerns about the climate crisis and the loss of biodiversity on the planet that we have very compelling reasons to argue for a plant-based foods.
[00:11:40] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, absolutely. And for sure, it's interesting to me what you said about the people. It's almost like in order to be able to do that horrible job, they have to make themselves inner to the violence they're doing every single second. That must absolutely. Change [00:12:00] them on some fundamental levels. And yet the notion of going macro with it, like you were talking about just a second ago of changing the food system itself.
[00:12:10] Yes. It's good for the environment. Yes, it's, it's obviously better for, for the animals. If we're not. Exploiting them and killing them and eating them. But the question becomes for me, how, how do we, is it, is it lobbying efforts in, in government? What, what do we need to do? What do you, what are you thinking of doing and what do you think the average person can do?
[00:12:33] To make inroads to making those changes.
[00:12:37] Gene Baur: Yeah. Yeah, no, it is a big question and it is a multi valence to response. I think that we need to make individual changes in terms of how we eat so that we are not subsidizing this system by buying factory farm to animal products. Because when we buy those products, we're in a sense voting with our [00:13:00] dollars to support those systems.
[00:13:02] But we also have a government that is supporting the factory farming industry to the tune of billions of dollars every year. So one of the first things I think we need to focus on. Is taking the government support away from growing feed crops. For example, you know, corn and soy that are grown in the U S are used largely to feed farm animals.
[00:13:26] And those crops are heavily subsidized in a variety of ways. So I think we need to stop supporting and enabling this harmful and inherently inefficient. So that's one of the first things is to stop subsidizing irresponsible practices. Also, our government has done a lot to promote the consumption of animal products, including through the school lunch program, where for decades, a school kids have been given a glass of cow's milk as part of supposed nutrition.
[00:13:58] But really, yeah. A [00:14:00] large part marketing and promotions. So I think our government needs to stop promoting animal foods the way it has been doing. And so there's going to be, I think, systemic. Policy matters. There's going to be personal matters. And I think there's going to be a business element to this where, you know, today we are seeing enormous investments in plant-based meats and in companies that are developing alternatives to, to meat from.
[00:14:27] Living feeling animals. And I think those are very positive steps. So business is gonna play a role. Individual choice is going to play a role. And the government also, I think, is going to play a very important role. And part of it is stopping, you know, enabling our current system and instead enabling an alternative and the alternative could look a variety.
[00:14:50] And I sort of see kind of bi-modal food production in the future. We sorta see it today to where you. Large scale mass [00:15:00] production and that's the dominant system. So I think in order to shift that it's really good that you have companies like beyond meat, impossible, and others who are looking to slot in a plant-based burger instead of a meat burger.
[00:15:16] But in addition to that, I think there's going to be a more grassroots. It's a ground up push to even grow one's own food. Yeah. A robust urban farming movement. Now there's a food, not lawns movement now. And we can grow a lot more food than we sometimes believe by local urban agriculture. So I think there's a lot of growth in that space as well.
[00:15:39] So there are good signs and these sorts of shifts should also be supported by government policies.
[00:15:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: You're singing my song. I love it. So there, there are so many things here that as a, as a former NASA staffer, I, I think about in terms of [00:16:00] how much of our land is being used for agriculture and is that land being used for the best form of agriculture. So what you said about plants like corn and soy that are mostly being grown to feed them.
[00:16:15] Animal agriculture practices, I guess, is the best way to put it. How, how would they transfer if, if the government went okay, let's do this. Let's transfer over from corn and soy to more, plant-based that, that, that is designed to feed people, not animals. I'll put it that way because that's the best language I have in the moment.
[00:16:37] How would we make that shift? How would we get farmer buy-in to be able to do that?
[00:16:43] Gene Baur: Yeah, well, a lot of this crop land is now owned by banks and financial institutions. So the reason that they have invested here is because it's profitable. So if we had government programs, for example, that did not incentivize.
[00:16:59] Crop [00:17:00] land for feed, but instead incentivized crop land for food that would do a lot to shift acres that are growing corn and soy to feed animals into peas or corn or soy or other crops people. But, but one of the other sort of fundamentals. Issues we have with animal agriculture is that it requires enormous amounts of land, enormous amounts of resources which for a small number of people can be very profitable because if you're selling corn and soy and you have crop insurance and you're basically guaranteed a profit you keep doing it.
[00:17:40] And that's kind of, what's gotten us to where we are today and it's been driven by this belief and this bias. That animal foods are somehow preferable to plant based foods. So that's a bias that has driven agriculture, and it's been supported by the increasing profits that, you know, crop producers and [00:18:00] feed producers and the machinery of agriculture has benefited from.
[00:18:04] And this also includes the pesticide companies, the petrochemical industries and, and, and so it's a massive industry. It's a massive company. But removing the, the federal and other subsidies that make crop production for animal feed profitable. And instead just doing that actually would have a big impact.
[00:18:27] And, and, and another part of this has to do with exports because, you know, Grow all these crops and what cannot be sold in the U S is an export. And so you also have international dimensions to this. So it's, it's a big, big machine and it has to be addressed over time in various ways, but.
[00:18:46] Stopping the funding and then enabling of our current system is, is huge. And and if that happened, I think you would see a natural shift towards growing crops to feed people instead of [00:19:00] growing feed for farm animals. But it's going to require a shift because, you know, instead of, you know, A million acres, you could now use maybe a hundred thousand acres to feed as many people, which means you have all that extra land that could potentially be rewilding or used for other more healthy purposes.
[00:19:20] But what it means is that whoever's now pro. From all that extra land would, would, would have to have a different business model. And so there's a lot tied up in this, but the feed side is enormous and that's an important place, I think, for us to try to work on policies, to discourage this, this ongoing irresponsible and frankly, inefficient practice.
[00:19:44] It's only profitable because of government programs.
[00:19:47] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah. And that's the thing that I'm wondering about with, with government subsidies. For agriculture in that way, I keep coming back to lobbying Congress. I keep coming back to changing the minds of [00:20:00] people who represent South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, some of the.
[00:20:07] Big farming states that are designed to th their, their practices are designed to keep this machine going. And so I keep coming back to which way do you address the problem? Do you address, do you address it as, as lobbying Congress? Do you address it grassroots with the, with the farmers or the banks? How, how do we innovate away from the current practice?
[00:20:30] If there's so much it's like a locomotive there's so much force going in that particular direct.
[00:20:37] Gene Baur: Yes. Yes. I think you do all of that. And I think from the standpoint of a lobbying, you know, at this point, you know, the vegan perspective, the Amorites perspective is very much a minority point of view.
[00:20:50] And we're up against very entrenched, very embedded, very powerful agricultural interests who not [00:21:00] only have. Lots of money and lobbyists, but members of the agriculture committee and key members of Congress representing agricultural states have disproportionate power to maintain the status quo because it is profitable.
[00:21:16] After spending time in Congress, then they go work at an agribusiness company and they come back and forth. You know, the USDA secretary today, Tom bill sack. And he was the secretary under Obama and he was better than Sonny Perdue who was under Trump. But when Villsac left the USDA in 2016, He went to work with the us dairy export council and was working to promote dairy exports around the world.
[00:21:44] And then when Biden was elected, he came back and he's now the USDA secretary again. So that gives you an idea of the kind of entrenched industry interests throughout government. And there are cultural biases. Towards this idea that drinking cow's milk is [00:22:00] somehow beneficial and healthy. So that's a belief system, but I think we need to challenge you at the government level, but also culturally throughout the country and the world.
[00:22:10] And, and then we need to be working on the machinery of the system. So it's a cultural thing and it's a structural thing. And I think it is important to lobby but we need to be realistic about what we're up to. And one of the issues that really concerns me right now. And it's one that I'm not terribly optimistic, we'll be able to, to, to remedy from a policy standpoint, although we're going to keep fighting away and raising awareness and trying to battle these kinds of subsidies, but you know, the concern about the climate crisis what agribusiness is very good at doing is greenwashing and parlay.
[00:22:49] Concerned about the environment to benefit their own interests. And they're doing that right now with methane digesters and with, you know, this idea that if you take [00:23:00] these manure, lagoons and factory farms, which again, these places can find. Thousands of animals. They produce enormous amounts of waste, too much waste for the land to absorb.
[00:23:09] So putting these cesspools and in a sense of greenhouse gases. So the solution industry has, and this is now tied to the oil industry as well is to take that waste and turn it into methane, which is entered this methane and you digest it and you turn it into energy and on the surface, that sounds good.
[00:23:29] But when you step back, What these methane digesters ultimately do is they further entrench industrial animal agriculture by tying it now to the industry grid or to the energy grid. And if you look at the amount of greenhouse gases coming from animal agriculture, most of it like about half of it comes from the feed industry, not from the manure, which is about 10% of it.
[00:23:55] So if you really wanted to deal with the greenhouse. Gases and the climate [00:24:00] crisis, you would not be constructing maneuver lagoon or rock methane digesters at these factory farms. But that is what the government is currently supporting. And, and it's it's, so it's a financial misstep and it's also a greenwash cause now these industries can talk about how they're ecologically aware when in fact what they're doing is very harmful still.
[00:24:21] So. Again, that's an example of how our entrenched system is working, where certain interests are able to actually parlay a genuine concern. To a policy that actually enables irresponsible practices to continue. And so that's what we're up against. So we just need to be calling this stuff out and encouraging consumers to make changes supporting businesses that are making changes.
[00:24:50] I think we do need to lobby but we also need to do a lot more, right.
[00:24:58] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Taking all of that in. Wow. [00:25:00] Yeah. It's interesting. You know what you said about the land being able to take in these manure lagoons? I worked when I was at NASA, I worked in, in soil science and looking at the soil itself. The soil can do a lot as far as carbon sequestration and looking at this notion of filtration, but it certainly can't do as much.
[00:25:24] Manure, you know, as much manure as is produced. So if we don't try to do it that way, if we, or if that's one arm. The grassroots way of doing things. If I'm a, if I'm a person living in the USA and I want to build awareness is there. And I have no idea if there is, and maybe we should create one. Is there any kind of a database or a website where I can go to start learning about some of this to start seeing companies that are practicing this greenwashing as you put [00:26:00] it, is there anywhere where we can get better educated on this?
[00:26:04] Gene Baur: Yeah, that's a really good question because a lot of the information we receive is more marketing than accurate descriptions of reality. And so I think just the first thing is to be discerning and to recognize that just because we read something doesn't necessarily mean we should believe it. I think a lot of the important progress is going to happen at the local level.
[00:26:28] And the reason I say that is because when you're. In a local area, you see what is happening and it's harder to be misled. You know, the further removed you are from the source of your food. The easier it is for those that are marketing that food to tell you stories that may not be accurate. So I think, you know, I've been very encouraged by what I've seen in recent years.
[00:26:50] And I, you know, before the Corona virus pandemic, I did a fair bit of traveling and I would visit urban. And see what is happening in [00:27:00] communities. And I have been very inspired and impressed by, by the work of groups like Harlem grown in New York or green Bronx machine in New York, you know, both that are enabling the youth to learn how to grow their own food.
[00:27:14] Ron Finley in Los Angeles is doing the same thing. You have a grow where you are an urban farm in Atlanta, eco suburbia, a veganic urban farm in Mesa, Arizona. So you have all these like local farming operations that are producing healthy food in sustainable plant-based ways. And also building soil w and, and, and creating a relationship of mutuality with them.
[00:27:39] Instead of one of extraction, you know, because when we look at the factory farming system, you know, you have a lot of corn, for instance, that's grown in the Midwest. So there's all these petrochemical fertilizers that are added to get that crop to grow. And then that corn is transported. Sometimes it's used in Iowa, but sometimes, you know, in North Carolina, for [00:28:00] example, to feed pigs.
[00:28:01] So you have all these nutrients, all this corn, all this material. It's now being dumped in North Carolina, fed through pigs and you have all this maneuver. So there's this massive imbalance. Whereas if you have, you know, local food produced in a responsible way for a local market you know, it's just more connected.
[00:28:20] The food is fresher. The food is healthier and people know what they're getting. So I would encourage people to join a local CSA co what's a community supported agriculture program. And the nice thing about these structures is that consumers. Invest in the program with the farmer. So at the beginning of the growing season, the farmer has the capital.
[00:28:41] They need to get seeds and whatever else to begin to plant and to grow. And over the course of the growing season, the farmer and the consumer share in whether it's been a bumper crop or not a very successful crop. And the consumer understands buying in [00:29:00] that, you know, You know, a certain amount of food, it might be more, it might be a little less depending on how the season goes.
[00:29:05] So that's a way to spread out risk for farmers and to share that with consumers and also for consumers to get closer to the production system and understand farming more. So growing food locally is huge. There's also, I think, an opportunity to transition lawns. So for people who live in the suburbs or who have homes with gardens or with, with lawns, You know, how about a whole different industry, right?
[00:29:31] Growing produce instead of just instead of a gardener coming and mowing the lawn and, you know, putting down fertilizer in some cases what if the gardener actually became a gardener and now this could be the homeowner, or it could be a service where instead of just mowing the lawn. They're growing produce.
[00:29:49] So every week there's a box of, you know, fruits or vegetables or whatever that could then potentially be sold locally or bartered or traded with other neighbors. [00:30:00] So, so that's another, I think food, not lawns movement that could be very positive locally. And then I think at the local level, you can work on maybe city zoning policies to make it easier to grow, produce in your neighborhoods and, and maybe policies around why.
[00:30:18] Maybe tax incentives or tax breaks for people who are growing food instead of having a lot. So those are some concrete policy, examples of ways to enable more of this type of activity in various communities. So, so those are just some thoughts, but I think local is going to be huge. I think we do need to work on federal policies.
[00:30:40] But doing that. I think it's going to take some time for us to develop the kind of support base to be able to take on animal agriculture and, and another, you know, speaking to innovation. One of the things that I think is happening, you know, in recent years. And it's very positive is that the vegan movement, the animal rights movement [00:31:00] is coming to recognize more common ground with worker movements, with small farmers, with environmentalist's, with health advocates, and you put all these together and you find common ground.
[00:31:13] And, you know, as a vegan, I'd love it to be all vegan and it might not be all vegan. Less meat. You know, so, so finding common ground with diverse interests and then promoting certain policies at the federal level, we might have some success.
[00:31:34] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I really hope so.
[00:31:37] Gene Baur: No. And then methane digesters is a good example of that, right? Where you have small farmers, you know, you know, whether they're vegan or whether they're raising a small number of animals, they would also begins to manure lagoons. So that's one of those examples where we might not agree on everything, but we can agree that these methane digesters should not be allowed.
[00:31:57] We could potentially agree on certain crop [00:32:00] insurance. Federal subsidies, we could potentially agree on consolidation, you know, cause one of the things that's happened also is. Fewer and fewer larger farms producing food. So I think we need a more diversified food system. So those are the kinds of policy areas where I think we might have some opportunities at the federal level working with a broader coalition of aligned interest.
[00:32:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That would be such an incredible feat and obviously an important one. That notion though of changing changing mindsets of, of people aligning themselves with, with other, with organizations, aligning themselves with other organizations who are working. At on parallel tracks, maybe if not the same track, there is no centralized body that says, Hey, let's do this together.
[00:32:53] There is no movement, one movement that, that does that. And so it makes me, it makes me wonder [00:33:00] how do we broaden the minds of people who again, want to be involved who want to align themselves with these various movements, but don't know how to reconcile. The differences, like you said, for example, now it might not all be vegan.
[00:33:15] And I know, I know lots of vegans are like, if you're not vegan, you're not worthwhile. And that, that is concerning to me because it you're cutting off your nose to spite your face at some point. So how, how would you encourage people to, to come together in those kinds of situations where they have what they might consider to be insurmountable?
[00:33:39] Gene Baur: Yeah, no, I think it's important to try to find common ground and the build and then build from there. So in the case of a small, a farmer who is raising animals for slaughter, for example, now we would disagree. On the idea of killing animals for food. So that's obvious. And so we need to [00:34:00] accept that, but instead of focusing on that and, and creating more division around that particular problem, we can focus on the idea of local food.
[00:34:11] We can focus in on the idea of. You know, no more subsidies for big ag. We can folk, we should find common ground and focus on that and build from there. And then my belief is that when you engage with people who may actually have a different perspective there's an opportunity for learning and and this can go both ways.
[00:34:32] There are certain, yeah. Experiences different people have, and we can learn a lot from each other when we pay attention and we don't have to agree on everything, but if you can find common ground and build from there, I think that's the most important thing. Instead of looking at the disagreement.
[00:34:47] Yeah. And continuing to pound on that. And in the vegan world, sometimes we tend to do that. And I don't think that it's necessarily helped. I understand the idea of holding onto a certain [00:35:00] ideal and I hold onto the ideal, but, you know, I can't control it. I can only control myself and I can try to encourage others and nudge others, but people, you know, have to make their own choices at the end of the day.
[00:35:13] And if we can work with folks with aligned interests and, and we have an awful lot of opportunity. When we look at the factory farming industry and the harm, it causes to small farmers, to consumers, to rural communities, to urban communities to our health to animals, to the earth. When we look at all the harm, this industry causes indigenous populations, you know, around the world.
[00:35:37] So there's so many ways that we can find common ground. When we look at the food system and specifically the factory farming. And so I think focusing there and then preventing. Again, government policies and subsidies that enable that abusive industry. So that to me is a very good starting point. And, and then once we [00:36:00] hopefully are able to stop subsidizing, irresponsible, unjust, inhumane animal, agricultural practices, we can then start looking at ways to reinvest that government money.
[00:36:13] And, you know, some organizations like ours would only want to support, find funding plant-based alternatives. So that's where we would go a little further than some of these other allies, you know, who might be against the factory farming industry, but would still be for, you know, eating animal products, maybe fewer animal products.
[00:36:33] So I think that's where the common ground is with those groups and individuals that we might not agree completely on. Less animal products is I think a very good comment.
[00:36:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, this friend is, she works with farmers and she, and I have to keep focusing on that common ground instead of on, on where we diverge. Ironically, she's the one who told me what happens to dairy cows in wa and that's when I went vegan. So [00:37:00] so this notion of being able to. In some ways agree to disagree is your point is well taken.
[00:37:07] I wonder if, if I could talk to you about this, this other notion, you said something about the protein and the nutrients. From from directly from plants versus from animals. There's, I've always in my head had this notion that there's, that there is a nutrients once removed situation happening. When you, when you try to get nutrients from, from eating an animal, I don't know what your, what your education level is on this, but could you talk a little bit about that notion that, that, that.
[00:37:39] Primary nutrients from plants versus what nutrients we might be getting from animals, especially animals. Who've, who've been factory farmed.
[00:37:49] Gene Baur: Yeah. You know, I don't have a whole lot of kind of academic knowledge in that space. You know, what I do know is I've been a vegan since 1985. I'm almost 60 years old now and [00:38:00] I, I get everything I need nutritionally from eating plants and no animals.
[00:38:04] And I do know that. Eating animal products. The way we are in this country is causing enormous health problems. I know one of the primary nutrients we do not get in in this country is fiber and animal products have no fiber, whereas plant foods, whole plant foods. Full of fiber. So there there's some basic things I know in terms of the nutrients directly from plants.
[00:38:29] I think it makes sense just from an efficiency standpoint, you know, to eat the plant directly from the earth instead of taking the plant and feeding it to an animal and then eating the animal. And I have also heard that, you know, the animals get their nutrients from the plant. So might as well go right to the plants.
[00:38:46] So, so that all makes sense to me, although I'm not again, deeply knowledgeable about that nutritional question. But what I do know is I've been a vegan a long time and it works, and I know some of the best athletes in [00:39:00] the world have performed at their best eating a plant-based diet and people like Carl Lewis, for example, You know, did his best times as a vegan.
[00:39:10] So, you know, we can perform at a very high level eating plants instead of here.
[00:39:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, I love that documentary. I think it's called agents of change about ventures. Game-changers yes. Game-changers. I always get the two confused game-changers about, about the peak performing athletes who are all vegan plant-based I thought that, you know, if that's not going to inspire you to think about health as a vegan, I'm not sure will.
[00:39:36] What will so I have just I know you, you have to go and I so appreciate you taking the time. I have just a couple of other questions. Can you, can you be a futurist for a second? And talk to me about your vision for 2040. What, what do you see? How do you see us doing, as you can talk about the climate crisis about.
[00:39:57] You know, animal agriculture, [00:40:00] plant-based movement, veganism, anything. Where do you see us as a society and as a planet 20 years?
[00:40:07] Gene Baur: Oh gosh. It's really hard to know exactly. But what I'd say is that it, it appears to me and it feels to me like there's a convergence of it. Yeah. You know, whether it's the ethical treatment of other animals, whether it's the destruction of the, by the, the ecosystems and the earth and, you know, the climate crisis whether it's our own personal health, whether it's our own emotional health and community health, you know, all of these things can be pinned to the factory farming industry, which is a contributor to them.
[00:40:36] And the solutions are in eating healthier. A plant-based diet that is produced in a more sustainable eco-friendly way. So I think, you know, where things currently stand, there's an awful lot of investment in large efforts to replace animal foods in our fast food industry, in our mainstream food system.
[00:40:59] And I think those are [00:41:00] positive. But I also am a very strong proponent of a more grassroots, localized food system where you have. You know, food, not lawns efforts, you have urban agriculture. You have people growing their own food. You have community gardens, you have community supported agriculture.
[00:41:17] So I, I think that a robust grass roots food movement to me is something that really feels good. You could even have like rooftop gardens. You could have vertical farms and in some urban settings, so local food fresh. Plant food produce locally to me is, is great. And so that's the bi-modal system.
[00:41:40] Again, you have this kind of localized versus a more industrialized plant-based options that will replace meat and current in the current machinery. So those are the two kind of. Parallel pushes happening and, and I support them both. Although, you know, as an idealist, I I'm a [00:42:00] bigger fan of the locals.
[00:42:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, absolutely. The thing, the thing that that's always interested me about what you're saying is that you have to want to, right. The, the person who's got a, who lives in Brooklyn, New York has to want to, there's no lawn. I have no lawn. Right. So I have to want to go. To the closest a community garden. And I have to want to work in the soil and I have to want to tend the crops that I'm growing it.
[00:42:28] Even if it's like a 10 foot by 10 foot plot, what would we do? How, how do we encourage people to even begin to think about it? Because I, I grew up in Detroit, even though I wasn't born in the USA, but I grew up in Detroit and the urban farming initiatives there. Blow my mind and, and people are, are really because, and it's because so much has been abandoned there that there are these plots of land doing nothing.
[00:42:53] So people have started doing it. They've started these urban gardening and urban farming initiatives there, [00:43:00] but in a, in a, in a place like Brooklyn, there's not too much. That's abandoned. How do we talk to people in those areas and say, Hey, this is a possibility for you. Where do we need to start
[00:43:11] Gene Baur: with.
[00:43:12] Yeah, no. In places like Brooklyn, where, where land really as it, or is it a premium? It gets a lot tougher, you know, but there is, I think, a growing hunger for green space for open space and opportunities for gardening, even in very small plots even container gardening, like, you know, on the back porch, for example, you can sometimes have a container to grow some herbs if nothing else.
[00:43:35] But you know, In addition to like the physical limitations, which I hear and understand are significant in places like Brooklyn, there are also just, how do you get people to want to do this? Part of it is just by seeing others do it. You know, we are social animals and if we see somebody else doing something.
[00:43:52] You know, there's a good chance we might start doing it. So the more that this happens, you know, like in Detroit, as you were describing, I think the more [00:44:00] it will pick up momentum because I believe that being with the earth, having our hands in the soil is actually healing and it feels really good. So once people start doing that and they recognize how beneficial it is, I think more and more people are going to want to do it.
[00:44:16] And in places like Brooklyn, you know, again, land is very limited. So maybe rooftop. Or one of the possible options public spaces, you know, some parks, you know, might be made available to have some, some gardening space. But I think expanding green spaces and adding food production in some of those could be a solution.
[00:44:37] There are food forests. So, you know, Trees that are producing fruit. For example, in some of these green spaces could be another part of the solution. So it's going to be multi valence. It's not going to be one thing or another. It can be a variety
[00:44:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: of things. I, again, I hope so. I keep saying to your responses, I keep going.
[00:44:55] Yes, I hope so. Yeah. And it's interesting to me, rooftop gardens do a [00:45:00] lot to cool the buildings, so it saves energy. In that way, too. And, and I hope that that keeps going and growing because there is an initiative to have that, to address the urban heat island effect in, in these urban areas. I would love, I, first of all, gene, I know you have to go, but I would love to find out from you and I'm going to put it in the show notes also.
[00:45:20] Where, if someone, if someone wants to follow your work, where would they go to find you? And I'll put the links in the show notes, but I like people learn differently. So if you could say where someone would be able to locate your work and what you're doing, I would love to have that information.
[00:45:36] Gene Baur: Yes, absolutely.
[00:45:37] Well, you know, we have at farm sanctuary, we have a website, farm sanctuary.org. We also have an Instagram account, a Twitter account and a Facebook for farm sanctuary. And then also I have my own Twitter, Instagram and Facebook for Jean Bauer. So people can go to either or both of those to keep in touch with us and to track our work.
[00:45:59] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:46:00] Fabulous. Thank you so much for saying that. And I will put all of that and game-changers. Do engagements have changed? I don't know why game changers and, and csa.org is the community supported agriculture link. I'll put all of that in the show notes so that if you're interested in finding out more about gene Bauer and his work farm sanctuary how to get involved in a CSA, you'll be able to do it from the show notes of the page.
[00:46:23] Jean I'm. So. So grateful that you took the time to be here. I really appreciate it. I have just one last question and it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some profound answers. And the question is this. If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?
[00:46:44] Gene Baur: Wow. I mean, probably kindness. I think kindness is one of those really important kind of unifying values. I don't think anybody says it's bad to be kind. I mean, they might, they might say, oh, you're being idealistic or you're [00:47:00] not being realistic for instance, but nobody, I think disagrees with the aspiration of kindness.
[00:47:06] So kindness matters. Be kind. I think that is one of the most important things for us to aspire.
[00:47:13] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Fabulous. I love it. I love it, Jean, once again. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you taking the.
[00:47:20] Gene Baur: Absolutely. Thank you so much as all the great talking with you.
[00:47:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: This is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast.
[00:47:26] If you've enjoyed this episode, and I know you have share it out, tell your friends this is important work, gene Bauer and the farm sanctuary movement. They're doing incredible work on behalf of the whole place. All the animals, including us. I hope that you've enjoyed the episode and this is me reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love.
[00:47:50] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and [00:48:00] rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[00:48:08] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2020. As always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.
 
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Wendy Hapgood, Director of the Wild Tomorrow Fund on How They‘re Saving Wildlife

Wendy Hapgood Discusses the Ways the Wild Tomorrow Fund is Innovating how Animals are Saved
This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindsetIf you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset
Wendy Hapgood is the co-founder and Chief Operating Officer of Wild Tomorrow Fund, a wildlife conservation charity dedicated to saving threatened and endangered wildlife and their habitats.
Wendy believes that biodiversity loss and climate change are the two most critical issues facing our planet today. In 2015 she left Wall Street behind to dedicate her life to the protection of the environment and biodiversity. She completed her Master’s Degree in Sustainability Management at Columbia University's Earth Institute where she studied climate change science and policy, researched the intersection of poverty and rhino poaching, uncovered illegal ivory in New York City, and studied new methods for financing the green economy.
Connect with Wendy
www.wildtomorrowfund.org
Instagram: www.instagram.com/wildtomorrowfund/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/wildtomorrowfund
Twitter: https://twitter.com/wildtomorrow
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Wendy Hapgood: But I feel like when you are really emotionally connected to this project and it was truly an emergency, I think it really pushes you to do what you think is impossible.
[00:00:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I am. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM, brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.
[00:00:36] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word, and now let's get.
[00:00:59] Hey there [00:01:00] and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg, I'm your host, and I'm really happy that you're here. And I'm also thrilled and honored to have this week's guest. And you'll understand why as soon as I tell you a little bit about her, Wendy Hapgood is the co-founder and chief operating officer of wild tomorrow fund wildlife conservation, charity, dedicated to saving, threatened, and endangered wildlife.
[00:01:22] And their habitats. And that last part is a really important part of what Wendy and her group, what they're doing when he believes a biodiversity loss and climate change are the two most critical issues facing our planet. Today in 2015, she left wall street behind to dedicate her life to the protection of the environment and biodiversity.
[00:01:41] She's singing my song. She completed her master's degree in sustainability management at Columbia university's earth Institute, where she studied climate change science and policy research, the intersection of poverty and rhino poaching uncovered illegal ivory in New York city and studied new methods of financing.
[00:01:59] The green [00:02:00] economy. Ah, Wendy, I'm so honored that you're here. Thank you so much for being here. Well, Thank you
[00:02:06] Wendy Hapgood: so much as older for having me. I'm really excited to be on your show. Wow.
[00:02:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I you're, you're you're living my dream life in many ways. It's exactly the kind of thing that I have always wanted to do.
[00:02:18] So I'm so glad that you took it and ran with it and are doing it right. I love you. You left wall street and you, you went, that's it. I'm changing my whole life around and I'm doing this now. I'm going to dedicate my life to saving wildlife and saving protected lands. What sparked that for you? What, what made you go?
[00:02:36] Okay. You know what? I'm making that change. I'm going to totally transform the way I live and I'm going to innovate things on my own terms. Yeah.
[00:02:43] Wendy Hapgood: I mean, it was a really big jump. And I have to say that this feeling grew within me, that sort of, it happened over years where I had the sneaking feeling of, you know, unhappiness or just dissatisfaction with, with life and what I was doing with my life.
[00:02:58] And I was successful [00:03:00] in finance. And I loved, I did like my job and the people I worked with and customers, but there was something really missing for me, which was sense of purpose. You know, I absolutely love animals and I feel like probably a lot of your listeners have pets that you just adore and it really starts there and, you know, hiking and.
[00:03:19] Starting to feel that I needed to do something about what I was seeing around me in terms of environmental destruction and climate change. And you know, people talk about ecological grief, starting to feel really sad about what was happening to the planet and knowing I wasn't helping. I really big moment was I was actually working in Tokyo, Japan, and I was there for the big earthquake, which resulted in a nuclear crisis.
[00:03:46] So being on the ground in Tokyo and living there and worrying about if my boss water was contaminated, which by the way it was and you know, it just, it was such a hosted apocalyptic scenario that I was living and [00:04:00] what really shocked me. How a lot of people weren't that concerned. They, after it went well and people from outside of Japan and friends, weren't, well, no one died, you know, after this nuclear crisis.
[00:04:13] But whereas I couldn't stop thinking about how we poisoned the earth forever and that wasn't being spoken about. And it really was a sort of symbolic moment. And I felt complicit in it as someone living in the city using, you know, that's all the power being generated for that's what the nuclear power was needed for.
[00:04:33] So I felt really complicit in this poisoning of the earth. And I felt very guilty about when I left later that year to, to, to come to New York about not being here. Both people that were, you know, refugees, internal refugees from that crisis and thinking about how we poison the land and, you know, I saw it with my own eyes up Mishima.
[00:04:53] So that really was a huge moment in my life. I was thinking, what can I do? And how can I help. [00:05:00] Being a part of the destruction. Then in New York, I met my now husband, John Stewart, who is the other co-founder of wild tomorrow fund. He was in a similar place in life. He was an advertising executive here in New York.
[00:05:13] It creative director also loved animals and was in a place like me. What next to do in life and actually make a difference and help animals in nature. So that was nice. I don't think I'm not sure I could have done it all on my own. Definitely helps to have a partner and to embark on this big journey together.
[00:05:32] So that's what we did in 2015. And then personally, I felt like I needed a little more background and I love studying. So that's, I went and did my masters at Columbia, which was Columbia university, the earth Institute. Gave me, I felt like a little more confidence and background in, in sustainability and environmental problems and climate change science and all kinds of really fascinating things.
[00:05:55] So that helps me on my journey as well, to feel ready, to really [00:06:00] switch careers and focus a hundred percent on saving the planet.
[00:06:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking that all in. I sometimes take these little pauses cause I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. That's amazing. So, so here you are. You've, you've made the decision and you came out of with your masters. And w I'm I'm so fascinated. What did you do next? How did you, how did you decide, you know, what we're going to buy land in South Africa and what were the steps that you took to make that start happening?
[00:06:35] I imagine the bureaucracy is monumental.
[00:06:38] Wendy Hapgood: Well, again, I think we took it step by step and when John and I started Walton were fun. But we also felt like buying land and saving habitat as much as we knew that that was the really big overarching issue in the same way that climate change kind of hangs over everything.
[00:06:55] Habitat loss also kind of drives so much of the [00:07:00] environmental loss and destruction we see today. But that, that, that would be a huge thing to start with. So when we started well, tomorrow flung, we started in 2015. Really just with small things, we were asking friends, family for $50 to buy boots for Rangers, because what we saw on the ground in kazoo, in a town, South Africa, which is where we're focused.
[00:07:23] Was that government reserves in particular were super under-resourced they're in charge of protecting incredible biodiversity, some of the last big tusks elephants in the world. Really under-resourced trying to fight the rhino poaching crisis and, you know, here's these amazing. People who very dedicated boots on the ground, but they don't have good boots.
[00:07:45] So from New York, we're like, well, what, well, we can, we can help with that. You know, or like really bad, basic things. Like they couldn't go out on patrol if the tires had punctures and of their, you know, for their patrol [00:08:00] vehicles and their budget was didn't allow them to purchase more that month, you know?
[00:08:05] So it was like a week. Fundraise for that. And we can involve people in New York who would love to, you know, it's very direct impact to say, if you give, if you can give us $50 donation, we will personally have our team on the ground, buy those boots and deliver them. So that's how we started. Nice and small step-by-step.
[00:08:27] And it was 2017 when the land kind of happened, which I say was a land emergency where. One of our partners on the ground told us about this piece of land that was up for sale and it had two offers on it from pineapple farmers. And when you know, these farmers want it to extend their existing fields of kind of fools.
[00:08:52] And if you could see a picture of it, it's just. You know that typical monoculture farming that just extends out forever in these [00:09:00] endless rows of, you know, sameness and it's terrible for biodiversity. And you know, this land that was up for sale had, had been farmed, you know, cattle and a little bit of pineapples, but it kind of being left to go wild and it had zebra on it.
[00:09:15] It had, you know, hippos that would come from the river and at nighttime feed on this land and. We went to see it and that was it. You know, our hearts were kind of stuck. We were like, we have to do something. We cannot allow this to happen. What they would do is, is if the pineapple farm was it totally clear?
[00:09:34] It, we mean to tract as a chain, pull out every single tree, run off the wildlife. I mean, turn it into that. Very does it like monoculture of, of pineapple, commercial, industrial agriculture. So we were pretty determined to do that, but you know, imagine it was over a million us dollars, the price tag, and we'd been asking for 50, a hundred dollars donations, but I think those [00:10:00] emergencies make you really step up.
[00:10:01] And we felt that we needed to try and also we know or knew that. There's a lot of wealth in New York city. And there's a lot of people who care deeply and, you know, we just needed, we knew we just needed to meet the right people and tell the story and, and kind of bring them along in this journey. And we also met with the landowner.
[00:10:24] She was an older lady living in the city, near Johannesburg. She didn't live at the farm or anything like that. This land that was her old fence. And we kind of pleaded with her. We said, you know, we're a charity. We don't have a million dollars sitting ready to make this deal happen. Can you give us time?
[00:10:43] You know, this will be your legacy too. So. Thankfully, she agreed. And she gave us five years to save, to raise all the money, to save the land. Actually that deadline's coming up next may. So we, we still have a little way to go. But in the meantime we bought another piece that was at risk, just [00:11:00] down, just nearby.
[00:11:01] So. You know, created this card or vision. You know, in the meantime we established we felt it was extremely important that the land was owned in South Africa, not by a us charity. So we set up a wall tomorrow, fund South Africa. No affiliate. So it's a registered charity in South Africa. So the land is owned locally.
[00:11:21] Yeah, so there were a lot of legal steps and meetings and learn a lot of learning along the way. But I feel like when you're really emotionally connected to this. This project and it was truly an emergency. I think it really pushes you to, to do what you think is impossible. So we're really proud that we were able to save it and then you know, start working on restoring it and rewilding it.
[00:11:48] Really exciting and super hopeful. And I think it transformed us as an organization too. And that's really now our focus. We still help other ranges in the region and we do buy boots for Rangers, [00:12:00] but the major focus now is really saving that land, protecting it, restoring it and rewilding it.
[00:12:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yay. Okay. Wow.
[00:12:10] I wish I had pom-poms or something. So I could be doing a little cheer for, for everything that you just said. I'm you are, you are absolutely seeing my song. I've worked for NASA for over 20 years, doing earth science and environmental education outreach all over the world. So, so hearing from you that, that you, that that is your active.
[00:12:31] Sort of profession that, that, that, that, that, that it's possible that you can have these, make these inroads and have such an impact on a place that probably a lot of people never think about, which, you know, raising that elevating the visibility of, of the need to say. Habitat in places like South Africa is incredible.
[00:12:55] And I, I know people in South Africa who are working to educate [00:13:00] people in South Africa about that importance too. And so I'm wondering a little bit about, like you said, you made, you have this relationship with the owner of that land, which is incredible. What, what other kinds of. Innovative ways. Have you made relationships with people and government people in South Africa to make this, to make these inroads?
[00:13:22] Wendy Hapgood: It's a great question because you know, nothing is ever done alone. It really is teamwork and something that was really important. And just to give a little more background into this, this land is in a biodiversity hotspot. It's one of 32 places around the world. That's recognized for really high level.
[00:13:39] By diversity. So just this massive array of amazing life from insects to furry things, you know so it was really important to save this land is also right next door to a world, heritage wetland, UNESCO, world heritage park. So again, another great reason why this piece of land in particular, in this area, it was really important [00:14:00] to protect it.
[00:14:00] So that was. Re that we really needed kind of local support with was this legal declaration. So turning what was kind of designated as farmland into what is now officially a nature reserve. So we reached out to a local south African NGO or conservation outcomes who are experts in navigating this process.
[00:14:27] It's a Amazing initiative under the south African government, where they recognize that the state national parks can't do it alone. They need private land owners. You know, it could, could be farmers who want to protect a small piece of their land that has an endangered frog. You know, they, they want to empower Private landowners to also contribute to conservation, sort of have this framework called the biodiversity stewardship program.
[00:14:52] And we worked with conservation outcomes to kind of navigate that whole process and an amazing environmental attorney [00:15:00] who is in Durban who helped us with that. And what's really, I think, amazing about our project and what makes it stand out is it's truly collaborative. So. I mean, we had donors from a lot from New York some on the west coast in other countries give $20 towards this dream or, you know, a thousand dollars or $50,000.
[00:15:23] So it's been, you know, literally thousands of people who've made it possible to save this habitat. And then on the ground, we partnered as well with landowners who were. Like kind of next door to us. So literally sort of inside the borders would have had a little small 20 hectic piece. So, you know, to really expand habitat, it means to term, you know, dropping fences, you imagine a South Africa land, I guess like suburbia in America, it's all fenced.
[00:15:50] So just biggest squares. And so for wildlife to have a better chance at fighting back against extinction, you know, you need to really open up that habitat [00:16:00] and Save the wild space and extend the wild spaces. So we worked with our neighbors and kind of brought them along in this journey of creating a nature reserve.
[00:16:09] So this it's a collective reserve, the land that waltz Marfan's today. Two separate pieces and it's about 83% of the total. And then we have three other private landowners who, you know, they have the conservation vision too. They were excited about being a part of it and dropping their fences and opening up their land to also be habitat for wildlife.
[00:16:30] So, you know, that was a really a collective. Project and we worked through this legal process and that was declared last month, which is super exciting. So the land is officially a nature reserve now in South Africa. That's
[00:16:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: incredible. And I, first of all, wow, again, and second of all, you said some things that I am super curious about, you said.
[00:16:57] We were you, you were talking about breaking, you [00:17:00] know, breaking defenses and, and removing them so that, so that wildlife can, and I know I've heard the same thing with like unbroken canopy cover for certain birds that they need, that they need, you know, that tree canopy cover in order to feel like this is their habitat.
[00:17:16] What. What are the species that are either most impacted or, or the ones that are in that now nature preserve, which I think is incredible, that are going to benefit the most from those kinds of fence lists areas.
[00:17:34] Wendy Hapgood: Well I would say, oh, you know, oh, wildlife benefits from. Having more space. We're a huge fan of EO Wilson, who is a very famous American biologist and his book is called half earth.
[00:17:48] And he did all of a sudden he did all the math for us, but basically if we save 80% of life on earth, you know, 80% of species on earth today, we have to. [00:18:00] Kind of protect 50% of land and Marine spaces for wildlife. If we don't do that, if we can't get to 50%, we can't say. Species, you know, we can't save 80% of species on earth, basically wildlife and animals need, especially the longer ranging ones.
[00:18:19] So the ones that really need space or the big megafauna. So elephants lions, leopards. Hyena, you know, the ones that re African wild dogs, they need a lot of protected space to range. They have bigger ranges, but wild space connected wild space. So, you know, when you talking about birds, it's the canopy.
[00:18:39] They need like a card or a green card, or to reverse these spaces that we've, we humans have basically kind of cut up old. Space on our planet and dissected it with farms and fences and housing developments. And so wildlife can't cross from a to B and they need to do that so they can [00:19:00] exchange genetic information and without that populations become essentially inbred and cannot survive long longterm.
[00:19:07] So that's why card or is, is so important and why connecting wild space. Super important. Yeah. And, and the vision for our land. So now it's a nature reserve. It's 3,200 acres which is about 1200 hectares. And I like to give people a frame of reference. That's like four times central park. So, you know, in a way it's big.
[00:19:30] In the grand scheme of things is kind of relatively small, but why it's so important is that it acts as a card or so this land that we've protected and stopped from being destroyed and joined together with neighbors and opened up wild space. It lies between two very big existing wildlife reserves.
[00:19:51] One side is the money wanna, it's a home to a very well-known. Wildlife reserve called [00:20:00] pin the private game reserve. They're amazing. When it comes to conservation, they're home to one of the most important cheetah breeding sites in South Africa. They're doing really good job. They are. WWF black rhino range expansion sites.
[00:20:13] So that means they're so good at keeping the rhinos safe that they actually they're black rhinos, which are critically endangered. They've increased in number so much so that they could give those rhinos to other reserves where they were lost and start to repopulate. Wow. Black rhinos in other reserves in Africa, they recently actually sent Jordan.
[00:20:32] With the two, I think Malawi to help repopulate giraffe. The, so they're doing an incredible job, keeping wildlife safe and being able to help, you know, other places. And then on the other side of the land that connects, you know, a, to B as a card, or is the UNESCO world heritage, you see ma mango Lisa wetland park.
[00:20:51] I mean it's name and Zulu means a place of wonder. It is a natural wonder, you know, of global significance that. [00:21:00] Incredible. It's got the biggest hippo pod in the breeding Cod in South Africa, over 500 bird species you know, and this card, or it will open up. So our long-term vision is dropping fences on both sides.
[00:21:13] So that wildlife from. The Pinta, the reserve inland the elephants, the rhinos can actually traverse through our card or to iSimangaliso and it goes all the way to the ocean. So yeah. Eons ago, you know, that little wildlife in South Africa also used to migrate the wildebeest would migrate through there.
[00:21:34] You know, this will create a path for wildlife to, to move again. And that's incredibly important in coming decades with climate change where wildlife will be. The conditions where they are, will change. They need water, they'll move to two. They need to be able to move, to find water and resources.
[00:21:53] So, you know, we're excited. That's our big, big vision. And that's why this land is so important.[00:22:00]
[00:22:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: A
[00:22:02] Wendy Hapgood: shock to you again is older.
[00:22:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yes, no, yes and no, I'm, I'm actually just full of sitting here going, I'm so grateful you're doing the work you're doing because yeah. I mean, without, without a way to move. Where they need to move in order to survive. And dare I say thrive. They will die. It's that simple.
[00:22:22] Eventually they will die. So I'm, I'm in, I'm grateful that that was the, that was the word that was coming to mind is as I was listening to you talk, and this corridor is going to is, and is going to be something that, that allows for that movement. But then you mentioned something earlier that I, that I wanted.
[00:22:44] Touch on. You said the word rewilding and what that, the stuff that you, the things that you've been talking about up to now have, have been about the animals that are already out in the wild w is rewilding something different than that. And if so, what [00:23:00] is it and how does it impact that that notion of habitat that protection?
[00:23:05] Wendy Hapgood: That's a great question. So Rewilding I have to say is probably what I love most about what we do. It's so hurtful. So it, and it can mean a lot of different things. It could mean bringing back to some people rewilding, maybe Maine bringing back long extinct animals. I mean, what we're doing is, so we save the land, we protect it, we start restoring it.
[00:23:25] And a lot of animals will make their way back naturally, but there's some bigger, usually the larger spaces. You know, they're not just going to arrive, they're still fences. So you have to literally reintroduce them. So all rewilding is really the re-introduction of native wildlife that would have existed there before, but has, you know, been gone for some time.
[00:23:49] So it's super exciting. I know when we, when we save the land, the first piece, one of our ducks. Loves giraffe. And that was her first question. When can we get dropped [00:24:00] off? And all of this is guided by ecologists and science. And yeah, we, we introduced re-introduced giraffe for the first time in 2017.
[00:24:11] It was super exciting. You see them arrive, jump out of a truck and like literally run for it. You know, I can imagine it's quite stressful to be in a truck that wild off, you know, and and then running free on their new home. And it's so powerful. It's such an inspiring image or thing to it. And also for our donors to see what we did.
[00:24:33] I like to say rewilding kind of sells itself. You know, we, we needed to do it. We needed to get this wildlife. And it's very strange for most of us that in South Africa, you need to buy. Usually those animals, you would have to buy them, which is, seems so strange to us. Like, what do you mean you can buy a giraffe and how much has the giraffe and what do you mean?
[00:24:54] You can buy a zebra and, you know, I think zebra absolutely incredible. And the idea that there is sort of a [00:25:00] market price, $350 per zebra just seems so cheap. So you know, when our donors and supporters heard that I like we'll all buy a zebra. And so that was a really cool connection for them and for us as well, too.
[00:25:15] Help fund our rewilding work. It really funded itself. And every person who donated to help us literally purchase as an individual zebra, an individual giraffe, they had the chance to name them and you can tell the difference, giraffe and zebra there, their patents are unique, like a fingerprint. So we have ID Oliver, giraffe.
[00:25:37] We have a draft ID kit. Playing spot the difference, you know, looking at the patterns and figuring out who is who. So, yeah, we have 14, actually 15 resident draft now. And over 30 zebra every year. Now we have babies born, which again is proof of this concept. You know, if you can save land and, and join it with neighboring areas and [00:26:00] re-introduce wildlife You know, nature will then start taking care of itself.
[00:26:03] And we're seeing zebra, foals being born and huge moment for us was our first baby giraffe being born on this land that would have otherwise been pineapples. So rewilding, you know, it's really is a mix of restoration, ecological restoration, and then re-introduction of wildlife. What we mean when we say rewilding.
[00:26:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Okay. First of all, I want to help by a zebra, right? Yes. Or a giraffe or a cheetah or whatever, whatever it is that whatever it is, because, because yes, I, I will actually, that will be my, my birthday fundraiser this year. I'm going to tell people that I want to raise money so that I can buy like two giraffe and have them be rewilding in the wild tomorrow.
[00:26:46] But no seriously, because this is one of those things where. That's not something I've. Ever thought about or known was even possible. And so again, lots of gratitude from my end, because, because it's a [00:27:00] way for people like me, who probably are never going to start their own wild tomorrow fund to, to.
[00:27:07] Participate in a way that, that you would find helpful. And that brings me to my next question. What sort of help does the wild tomorrow fund need from people, private citizens, someone who's listening to this podcast who gets fired up like I am now who wants to help? What kind of help do you.
[00:27:24] Wendy Hapgood: Well, we would love help.
[00:27:25] We still, as I mentioned, that first piece of land we still have a deadline to meet a fundraising goal to actually fund finish the purchase. That's in the next may. So we love to equate things down to kind of bite sized chunks. A one acre is about 990 us dollars. So if anyone wants to sponsor an acre, it's a, it's an amazing gift or a legacy kind of a gift to someone.
[00:27:50] Then we have also volunteer trips and I think it's super powerful for those who can and would love to join us in the field in [00:28:00] South Africa perhaps next year. We have volunteer trips, so we bring 10 people at a time over to South Africa for two weeks. And then you can. Individually apart of everything we're doing and see the region and see the wildlife and, and participate.
[00:28:15] Hands-on, it's really kind of, for those who, where conservation isn't going to be, their full-time job, you can, you know, be a part of conservation truly for, for those weeks. And, and it's really powerful. I mean, it changes people's lives. That's how In a way, how we started well, tomorrow fund was John had been volunteering in Zululand in KwaZulu-Natal South Africa.
[00:28:36] So it really changes people's lives. And we find volunteers come back to New York and they don't want to just. That's it. Thanks. I had a great holiday. They really continue on with us as supporters and keep helping. So yeah, we, we would love more support and funding and help. And I love that for a lot of our supporters.
[00:28:57] It's very personal, you know, they really feel a [00:29:00] part of what we're doing and what I find truly beautiful for those who sponsored wildlife reintroductions. It's really interesting to see what they named their animal often. It's a pit. So there's a lot of dogs that are, you know, running around in central park who have a namesake in, in Africa, but sometimes it's departed even people, which I think is very moving.
[00:29:21] You know, that idea that. Created a gift in their name. That's now a zebra running free. So yeah, we would love more help.
[00:29:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, that's fantastic. I sign me up. I'm absolutely going to do that. And it's interesting because the, the words that, that are coming up in my head, as I'm hearing you talk are hope and connection yes.
[00:29:44] That you feel connected to. This place in South Africa, if you're in New York, if you're in LA, if you're in London, if you're in wherever and you can actually make that connection, what do you think makes those two words and, and maybe I'm totally off, [00:30:00] but what, what makes hope and connection so important in wildlife conservation and habitat restoration and the work that you're doing?
[00:30:08] I think it's sort
[00:30:08] Wendy Hapgood: of everything. I, you know, we started out as well. It being overwhelmed by. The destruction. It's very, it's easy to get depressed and feel down, you know, thinking about the planet and you know, this mass loss of. By diversity. You know, as it's called the mass extinction, the six mass extinction of life on earth, and this time it's driven by us, not by an asteroid climate change and all that grief like that.
[00:30:38] I think that sadness does help motivate people to do something, but it can also be really overwhelming. And I think what's important about hope is people need hope. I think we've seen it all the messaging about climate change, you know, I don't know. The negative messaging. You know, the warnings is really important, but I don't think it's moved people enough.
[00:30:59] I think [00:31:00] we all need to see that we can do something, you know, that your input, that you're, you know, everyone feels very small. We're like a drop in the ocean of these global challenges, but actually you can really make a difference. And if it's one zebra or coming on a volunteer trip, you know, each volunteer.
[00:31:20] Raises $2,000. That's two acres, you know, you can, you, it, it makes a real difference. And I think people feel inspired by that hope. And, you know, in some ways our projects far away from most people they're in New York, but that connection and feeling connected to the project, to the land, to those zebras.
[00:31:40] It's really important and that dream that maybe one day they'll be able to come and see for themselves. You know, I think it's really powerful. I'm more positive. I think we're, we've all had a rough year and yeah, I just think that it's a more positive and powerful message to move people, to take action.[00:32:00]
[00:32:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Again, I'm thinking. Wow. Yeah, I, it is true. We, the world has had a rough year and yet what's interesting to me about that is that during that time, when we were all. As many of us as could be sort of staying at home, things came back, you know, the, the, the weather changed wildlife started. There were pictures of wildlife on, you know, sort of different critters resting and relaxing in, in what were normally parks and places where you would just not expect to see wildlife.
[00:32:39] So there's, there is this there's this. The notion that I always come back to honestly was they were here first. And so for me, it's not just us making room for them. It's us. I had captain Paul Watson on my show, just on the show just a little while ago. And he was saying, you know, one of the [00:33:00] things that, that bothers him is the word stewardship.
[00:33:02] He, he doesn't think that stuartship is the way it should go. He's like we belong here. We're part of it. We're not overseers. We don't have dominion. We're part of this whole entire cycle and process. And so, so with, with the work that you're doing, it seems to me like that kind of connection goes beyond.
[00:33:19] People feeling connected. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a connection to the biome. It's a connection then to the earth. And if you can, do you have any stories of that kind of realization or that kind of, of moment of truth, if you will, for either from yourself or from your husband or from people that you've worked with,
[00:33:42] Wendy Hapgood: I'm just faint.
[00:33:42] Well, I think about that, it does, I think, bring us back to. The concept of rewilding and another way of thinking about rewilding. Rewilding ourselves, meaning reconnecting humans to nature. And exactly [00:34:00] like you're saying, and captain Paul Watson kind of a paradigm shift from seeing ourselves as having dominion and like.
[00:34:08] Power over nature to being a part of nature, more of a eco centric approach and, and restoring kind of the whole ecosystem. And that includes us too. So, and repairing that connection between ourselves to care more about nature or and to give, I see it as giving space back to nature to bird, you know, they belong.
[00:34:34] Equally as we do, we've taken so much away that they need, we need to give space back or we'll lose them all. You know, I think about where this heatwave and just the little things, the birds that died from it was too hot, you know, and, and I feel. That's all, you know, we've, we've closed that with, with our agriculture and our emissions and how climate change [00:35:00] links back to the biodiversity loss.
[00:35:02] It's all accelerating. So we really need to act now, or we will lose, you know, I, I think how devastating to not have elephants on the planet, how will you explain that to your children? And how do people explain that the animals that like grew up within their storybooks don't exist anymore? We didn't care enough.
[00:35:21] So I think rewilding, the human spirit is a big part of it. You know, for me, I think it came in steps, like rather than kind of a sudden aha moment, more of a buildup and a realization. And yeah, I th and I think going from helplessness to empowerment, you know, and knowing it's possible to restore. Some of the damage we've done and, and actually, you know, having this vision for the planet, that's 50% from nature.
[00:35:52] That's a big goal, but I think the more you are in nature, the more you appreciate it. [00:36:00] And so I would say, and I think COVID, you know, a lot of people spent time in parks and nature. Cause there was, it was such a relief in a way. A welcome response for us. And I hope that one of the positive benefits of that is more of a, of a love of nature and then desire to protect it.
[00:36:18] So I'm hoping
[00:36:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: hope seems to be the word of the day here. And it's interesting because I know for myself, when we were during lockdown, One of the things that I needed to do was feel the sun on my face. Like I couldn't just sit in the house, so I had to be out and, and it, even if it were just to walk outside, there's a tree, there was a tree right here.
[00:36:47] Our apartment and I would walk outside and I would say hello to the tree because it, it gave me that sense of connection. And that's one of the things that it takes us back to ancient stories when people [00:37:00] were really part like knew that they were part of nature, part of the earth, part of a process of this whole biosphere.
[00:37:07] And it sounds to me like your mission. In part, at least is, is that in addition to stemming biodiversity loss is, it's kind of, have you found that that's, that that's an outcome that, that the people who are involved really get connected on that deep level?
[00:37:26] Wendy Hapgood: Yeah. Like two, something like that. Maybe weren't really into nature or conservation before.
[00:37:34] Huh? You know, come on this journey with us and then become essentially conservationists, you know, at heart. I think that's really powerful. I mean, our, one of our major donors and on the board, you know, initially he was thinking he would spend his philanthropic time on helping with poverty, which is of course a really important topic, but it was [00:38:00] his dog, you know, like he had a room.
[00:38:02] Strong connection with his pet that made him think more about wildlife. And he went on safari and his wife sort of used, like, you know, maybe you should think about, you know, working with Watson more fun. And he's been super helpful or transformative for us and the connections that he's brought. And I think about that, that he wasn't someone who thought that wildlife and habitat conservation was sort of his thing we need.
[00:38:27] Find more of those people where it's you know, they it's education and exposure or, you know, being a part of this project is very inspiring and then people get sort of caught up in it, which is great. I think we need more people to connect to nature. And is it through, I think it can be through your pet through that.
[00:38:48] So. Very personal connection between a human and an animal and seeing them as, maybe as an individual and important, and then maybe through the park and appreciating the trees [00:39:00] and what they bring for us. And then that kind of connection expands from local to, to more global issues. So yeah, we need to figure out something, it's a question I've thought about a lot.
[00:39:12] How, why do I care so deeply? You know, it has been a progression over time to the point that I would give up, you know, sort of dedicate my life to this and saving nature. And then other people, you know, they're maybe distracted or they don't care as much. How do you convince, I want to say convert, how do you inspire other people to connect more deeply to nature?
[00:39:38] So that's a big question. And I, I, I think. Being out in nature is the key and go, you know, going for those hikes or coming on a trip to South Africa, of course, super powerful and helping out with conservation, you know, really being involved. And I think it really grows from there.[00:40:00]
[00:40:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, I know
[00:40:04] Wendy Hapgood: poor Wendy. You're going, is she still
[00:40:06] Izolda Trakhtenberg: there? I'm not sure what's going on. I'm sorry. I'm just, I, as, as you were, as you were speaking, I was there again. I had my little metaphoric pompoms out and I was cheering you on and it's when I use, as I said, I used to work for NASA and I used to do the.
[00:40:22] Participate in these environmental education workshops where we traveled all over the world. And one of the places we traveled with South Africa and did, did a workshop and the people who came were all teachers and other educators and, and who were going to be learning about these environmental protocols so that their students could study.
[00:40:40] Local ecosystems. And so when you were asking that question, I'm like, yeah, I so need to, I do this thing called the earth lady where I go into schools and I teach about the soil and, and, and the atmosphere and the water bodies and by, and the biosphere, as far as like the actual the plants that grow up near their school so that they can get into it.
[00:40:59] And now [00:41:00] I'm like, okay, I need to obviously add an animal component. What are the animals in your local area? And. What kind of wildlife is there, what might you find? And so, and it translates up into what's out in South Africa, what's out in, in Namibia, what's, what's in central Asia. There are lots of places where we can be looking at this.
[00:41:20] And so the question that I have for you about that is your, if you could have anything you wanted for wild tomorrow fund to do what would be the, the vision, what is the big, this is what would look like. Doing what we had dreamed of.
[00:41:39] Wendy Hapgood: Was a big question. I don't ask
[00:41:41] Izolda Trakhtenberg: small questions.
[00:41:44] Wendy Hapgood: I, I can see if I think 10 years ahead or maybe, you know, we'll be, you know, we've done a lot more than we thought we could in a short amount of time.
[00:41:51] So maybe five years ahead, you know, this Cardo project in South Africa is really the first. So the dream is for that to be. [00:42:00] Completed the car or open and working as a, as a card off for wildlife connecting these two huge reserves together, 80,000 acres to 800,000 acres in connecting that green space and the elephants can migrate again and, and we'll debase, you know, that will be like a really huge achievement and a dream come true.
[00:42:20] And then, you know, of course it will. It's, it's ongoing. It's like, then the results. The vision is for it to be self-sustaining. And then the question is what's next? So, you know, I see this future where we have, you know, our it's called the Wila nature reserve in South Africa, then All the places on the planet that threatened then an immediate risk of destruction and conversion for agricultural development, where there's really threatened species and saving that land.
[00:42:51] And it kind of repeating a process to save it, protect it, restore it. Rewild it. I mean, it could be mad, I guess. Yeah, it could be. I read about [00:43:00] place in Philadelphia, super important habitat for fireflies and without this habitat. Incredible spectacle. One exists in the United States would be incredible.
[00:43:11] You know, just having, being able to.
[00:43:17] Show you what's possible with restaurants. That would be my dream and
[00:43:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: bingo. I love it to show what's possible with restoration. I think that's that's. I think that's great. So first of all, Wendy, you're not getting rid of me that easily. So totally going to start getting people to, to sponsor zebras and giraffes.
[00:43:36] That's going to be wonderful. Absolutely. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see what I can do. And I also believe in starting them while they're young. So we're going to get kids on board.
[00:43:45] Wendy Hapgood: We had some kindergartners, did some, made some slime and sold slime and rice. Like I think it was $400. So amazing. People have little big, you know, it's really amazing what people can do and they really want to, [00:44:00] so, yeah.
[00:44:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And, and, and also, I mean, one of the things that, that we, that I've sort of really learned in this last hour of chatting with you is that.
[00:44:08] There are things I didn't know were possible. And so now that I know that they're possible, and now that if you're listening to this episode, now that you know, they're possible, the call has been made, take, take up the banner and get Ranger's shoes or something like that, or, or sponsor zebra. I think that those are the kinds of things that we can be doing that we didn't, I didn't realize that it could be done.
[00:44:27] So I'm really grateful to you, Wendy, for sharing all that. And if someone wants to get involved, how do they find you? Where, where can they find out about the wild tomorrow fund to get involved, to sponsor a zebra, to name the Seabrook? I would name a zebra Kimba after my beloved cat. I know that I would, but how would they do
[00:44:47] Wendy Hapgood: that?
[00:44:48] Okay. Well, for them. Get in touch or find out more about what we do that can head to our website, which is well tomorrow fund.org. You'll see there there's stories and [00:45:00] also volunteer menu. So you can look at, they can look at, you know, what trips we have coming up. Our animals sponsorships are more sort of direct because we have to be actually sort of reintroducing more or.
[00:45:14] W each year we have zebra born, for example. So you can actually sponsor babies either instead of actually not needing to purchase some right now, because they're kind of rewilding themselves. There will come a time where we need to buy, purchase more wildlife. So yeah, just, there was a contact us on the website at the bottom and.
[00:45:34] Email will come to me and to John and we'd love to be in touch. And yeah, we, we love at are a lot of us supporters say they, when they talk about the work of Baltimore fund, they say we did this. So it's really, truly is a community it's very personal. I like to say as well as one degree of separation between, you know, you, the donor and the future.
[00:45:56] Because there is a sort of between sphere and then yeah, we're, you [00:46:00] know, in a way we're, we're small team doing big things and we're really proud of what we've been able to do. And so it is quite personal and yeah, we welcome. We love meeting new people. We need to meet new people. So please reach out.
[00:46:12] We'd love to hear from you. And everybody can help from a kindergartner to a high school kid to, you know, a retiree. So please. Well to help the planet. So hope you'll join us.
[00:46:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Absolutely. Well, I'm going to put all of that information in the show notes and Wendy, I know that you have to run, but I do have one question that I ask everybody who comes on the show and it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some very interesting results in the question.
[00:46:37] Is this, if you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?
[00:46:46] Wendy Hapgood: Ooh, that's a love. That's an awesome question. I would say.
[00:46:51] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hmm.
[00:46:54] Wendy Hapgood: Love nature. I don't know. I it's about moving people to really care. So rewild your hot, [00:47:00] something like that. And then people have to think, what does that mean?
[00:47:02] And then go actually read what does rewilding mean? And then come on board with us. So pretty wild it's rewild and leave it. And then people have to be like, what on earth?
[00:47:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And so you do. At wild tomorrow.fun.org. Right? So that's right. Absolutely. Well, Wendy, thank you so much. What a phenomenal conversation.
[00:47:26] I'm so grateful that you were on the show. I really appreciate you taking
[00:47:29] Wendy Hapgood: the time. Thank you so much to Zelda for having me in and giving us this opportunity to tell the story while it's more fun and rewilding to all your listeners. It was such a pleasure. And thank you so much. My
[00:47:40] Izolda Trakhtenberg: pleasure. If you've listened to this episode, go get involved with wild tomorrow fund.
[00:47:45] Find a way to volunteer. Find a way to sponsor a baby zebra. How could you not want to sponsor a baby zebra? Come on. This is his older Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast, reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.[00:48:00]
[00:48:03] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[00:48:21] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2020. As always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.
 
* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I’ll get a small commission. And please remember, I’ll never recommend a product or service I don’t absolutely love!
 

How to Level Up Your Speaking and Presentation Skills with Coach and Award-Winning Actor, Meridith Grundei

Meridith Grundei, Public Speaking and Presentation Skills Coach, Actor, Director, and Improviser.
This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*
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As an award-winning theatre director, producer, and former Second City improv teacher, Meridith Grundei recognized the similarities between performing on stage every night and presenting to clients/colleagues every day, but the latter didn’t have the right tools to bring their stories to life. So she decided to do something about it.
Eleven years and some change later, Grundei Coaching has helped thousands of individuals and corporations
around the world achieve career growth and success. Meridith specializes in presentation and public speaking consultation, individual training and development, and creative team solutions using applied improvisational theatre techniques to build trust, empathy, and out-of-the-box thinking.
Connect with Meridith
www.grundeicoaching.com and www.meridithgrundei.com
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/thisimprovisedlife/ and https://www.instagram.com/meridithgrundeicoaching/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meridith/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/GrundeiCoaching
Meridith Grundei Episode Transcript
 
[00:00:00] Meridith Grundei: First off. I was just want to say the collective whole is super important. I think in order for transformation to happen and to see the actual results.
[00:00:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM, brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.
[00:00:35] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let's get to the show.
[00:00:58] Oh, my goodness. We've [00:01:00] just been laughing so hard. Hi, this is the Trakhtenberg with the innovative mindset podcast and I bid you welcome. I'm super excited about this week's guest. You can tell Meredith is already laughing. We're both cracking up, but you need to, you need to hear about Meredith grin, die, check it out.
[00:01:18] And I did I say it right? Or as a guy I dug around di see, Brandise we've just had. Fabulous conversation about name changing when you are, when you have the opportunity to do so. And Gren di is, is the, is the name that is the right name and I'm going to say it correctly. So here we go. Meredith Grundei dog gone.
[00:01:38] It I'm going to get it right. As eventually as an award winning theater director, producer, and former second city improv teacher Meredith recognize the similarities between performing on stage every night and presenting to clients and colleagues. But the latter didn't have the right tools to bring their stories to life.
[00:01:56] So she decided to do something about it. You know, this is catnip [00:02:00] to me. If you're, if you're a longtime listener of this show, you know how much I love what this is and what Meredith does so 11 years and some change later. Growing dye coaching has helped thousands of individuals and corporations around the world achieve career growth and success.
[00:02:15] Meredith specializes in presentation and public speaking consultation, individual training and development and creative team solutions using applied improv, improvisational theater techniques to build trust, empathy, and out of the box thing. Wow, this is, this is so exciting for me because we're going to get really deep into some of this.
[00:02:34] I'm so thrilled to have you here. Meredith. Welcome.
[00:02:37] Meridith Grundei: Thank you. I am so happy to be here. This is I make, so I'm just giddy on the inside about the conversation that is about to emerge. Certainly
[00:02:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: hope so, unless, unless my cat comes in like the, like he did the other day and jumps on the microphone and everything goes all over the place.
[00:02:54] We'll improvise. There you go. You'll improvise. I took very few improv classes in theater. I'll I'll I'll [00:03:00] try and yes, yes, yes. And you as much as possible. I love it. So, so talk to me a little bit about that. What, how did you get from. Theater director, producer, improv, teacher, professor, all of these things too.
[00:03:15] Now you help people and companies get their message out. How did that come about?
[00:03:21] Meridith Grundei: That's a really great question. It's organically come about over time. I have always seen myself and as a multi-passionate human and I remember the very first time someone said to me, I believe it was in high school, you're a Jack of all trades, but she said it in kind of a negative way.
[00:03:41] And you know, I'm, you know, that Jack of all trades master of none kind of way. And, and at first I thought, this is my handicap. I have all these passions because I was dancing. I was acting, but I loved organizing. I worked in the career center. I just have always [00:04:00] loved these things. My dad was an entrepreneur, so he, he was always, I was always inspired by him and always curious about exactly what he did.
[00:04:07] He also had a job that I could never understand it, but he did these other things that. We're just exciting. I was like, wow, you're opening a dry cleaners. And now you're opening a virtual reality games place. And now you're so I was always just really an all of that. And then when I moved to San Francisco, when I graduated from college and I started performing with an improv group called ed nauseum, and I'd taken at that time, maybe one improv class in high school.
[00:04:36] And I met these, this group of people through bats and I had taken a couple courses there and I just started to love, I just fell in love with it immediately, and then ended up in a sketch comedy group called old man McGinty. And we'd do this crazy, like very absurdist kind of sketch comedy. It was this really dynamic group.
[00:04:59] [00:05:00] Performers that had these wonderful like dance ability writers and a lot of experimental theater, performers, clowns, so forth. And so we put this group together and one of our members was like, I'm moving to Chicago, I'm going to study in Providence. Like, Ooh, I want to go to Chicago. I want to study improv.
[00:05:19] So I'm like, let's do it. And at that time I had just gotten married and we. Jet set it to Chicago. And I started interning my way through IO, improv, Olympic and the next thing I know, I am then teaching at the second city and I'm helping start their youth program there. And cause one of the core faculty members was co-teaching a class with me that was teaching kids how to create their own.
[00:05:49] And so I started that. I started working at the second city and it was a wonderful experience for me. And I was always inspired by the people that I was working with. [00:06:00] And for, and I did a couple at that time, it was called Bisco gigs teaching to more corporate folk, if you will, and helping them. Find ways to work better and more efficiently as teams using improvisation as a tool to do that.
[00:06:18] And then from there, this executive coach, Dennis Schroder pulled me in and was like, I want you to work with me and all the time. So I was like, okay. And I do the Birkman assessment, which is a psychological assessment, similar to disc and Myers-Briggs and he said, This is how I work as an executive coach with these teams.
[00:06:36] And then I want you to come in and let's use applied improv as a way to show these personal things different personality types and how they can work together as an asset. And better communicate with each other as a team and trust and all of that. And so for several years, and I actually am still in touch with Dennis and do the occasional work with him.
[00:06:57] I, I, I just ended up [00:07:00] doing that work and loving it because I saw the opportunities to help people not only engage with each other, but also find a safe and brave space to share story. I, it was astounding to me. How many organizations did not provide the space, whether that was conscious or unconscious for people to actually share what is like what's going on in their lives.
[00:07:29] What's what, they're, what they don't feel that they can bring into the workspace, right? Because you leave, you leave your personal life at home. And I'll, I'll never forget this one experience where I was working with a team of manufacturing team up in upstate New York in Rochester, and I have this Augusta ball exercise and Augusta ball is a Brazilian practitioner who brought he's no longer with us, but he, he used improv and theater [00:08:00] as a tool to bring community together and people of different backgrounds and ethnicities and so forth.
[00:08:06] And. This one exercise is called and it made me think. And so what you do is each person is given one minute to tell a story about something that's happened in their life and in relatively recent, right? A relatively recent timeframe. So in last week or last month, and you punctuate it, you tell your story and then you punctuate it with, and it made me think, and then you allow space to sit.
[00:08:32] And so you allow that story to land on the listeners. And this one, gentlemen, we come to this one man in the circle and he shares his story about his son. Who's been going through chemotherapy. No one on that team knew no one. And that to me blew my mind like this poor man has been holding this. Painful thing and [00:09:00] expected to work and expected to show up and to do his job.
[00:09:05] And that was. A moment for me where I went, I, this is important. This is what I am doing. This work, not, I, more people need to be doing this work. More people need to be going into organizations and using these tools of the theater and of improv to help open up the hearts and the minds of the individuals that are doing this work.
[00:09:29] I just got the bug and I just kept doing it from there on, and I started doing it on my own with Meredith granddad coaching. And within that, I was also. Invited by Dennis I'll give him credit. He was like, I've got this CEO, please help him with his presentation. He has to give at this big conference, I've got this guy over here who needs to level up his executive presence.
[00:09:49] I've got this person over here and I would yes. And things. And I think it's a Tina Fey quote, but she was like say yes and figure out the rest later, which is kind of what [00:10:00] I felt like I was doing. And it's led me to. This wonderfully PA this wonderful path that I'm on. And I haven't looked back and I don't think I will.
[00:10:10] I mean, I, I, what was it? What am I trying to say here? That was a rough drafted thought. Anyway. That's, that's how I got here.
[00:10:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's fantastic. And so much of what you said. To me, what I heard it it's I heard courage. It was, that was one of the things that, that I, it seems like you help people bring out, you know, have sort of pull themselves into themselves, but then have the courage to express to actually say what's on their mind or do what they want to do and be more of themselves, especially in corporate situations.
[00:10:56] And the first thing that we started talking about that you mentioned was [00:11:00] improv. And I would love it because I have a whole list of questions based on what you just said. There's a ton. And what, what is improv? What, what is improvisational theater? What is improv? Because people's bandy the term around, but I'm not sure how many people, I actually know what it means, what it is and what it can do for you.
[00:11:21] Meridith Grundei: That's a great question. So improv, I will start off with the one thing that people most commonly can relate to when I describe it in front of a group, which is, I always referenced, like, have you seen whose line is it anyway? And then people, I see a bunch of people nodding up and down and I'm nodding up and down as I'm sharing this story with you right now.
[00:11:43] So that would be the first context to do it. Yeah. Whose line is it? Anyway, they have a structure, a game, if you will. And within that game. So the structure are the quote unquote and I'm doing air quotes are the rules, right? [00:12:00] And you make things up on the spot within that structure though. So the structure gives you some guidelines.
[00:12:06] So that's what I do is I teach people. Games, these exercises, these activities. However you want to frame that that best fits for you. I give them these games that they work within so that they can see. The magic that happens afterwards. Right. And I give them other tools, like the foundation of improvisation is this idea of yes.
[00:12:31] And so when we, yes, and somebody's idea, we can further the storyline. We can add to the idea we can. Find that moment of agreement. Right? And so with that tool and within these structures, these games that I give them, we're able to make discoveries about ourselves within the context of the game. So for example, to me, the applied improv piece is the [00:13:00] magic is in the debrief.
[00:13:01] Right. So what did you notice come up for you when you were put in this situation? What feelings. We're in your body when this happened. What did you notice in your communication when this happened? What is it that you would do differently next time? If we were to do this exercise again, where you making eye contact were you breathing?
[00:13:25] Oftentimes when we feel stressed out or anxiety, we hold our breath, right? Do these exercises up on our feet. So it's a full body experience off, we spend so much time sitting down that I think that physical engagement that sematic kinesthetic engagement is incredibly important as well. So that I hope answers the question, what is improv, and it's also an amazing opportunity to get people to just laugh together.
[00:13:57] You're laughing together. You're getting amazing [00:14:00] insights on your own communication skills. You're building trust. And there are no real world consequences within the containers. So we're not going to like some multi-billion dollar organization is not going to implode because we're doing improv game.
[00:14:16] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I certainly hope not.
[00:14:18] That would be one heck of an improv game if you do that.
[00:14:21] Meridith Grundei: Wow. Wow.
[00:14:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And you rubbed your hands together right there. You did. I did
[00:14:27] Meridith Grundei: put finger thing.
[00:14:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: So that's, that's a, that's a fabulous, that's a fabulous encapsulation of what improv is and something that, that sparked from you when you said that was the questions that you asked the debrief, as you put it.
[00:14:42] If you're calling on people and correct me if I'm wrong here, it seems like you're calling on people to have a, a deeper awareness of self of who they are, of where they are of what's happening inside them. And often we don't, we don't, we tend to think outwardly, you know, we tend to [00:15:00] go, oh, this is, this is on my to-do list today.
[00:15:03] This is, these are the things that I have to get done. This is the work that I have to do, but we don't tend to spend a lot of time. Internally and going, what about the work I'm doing on myself? So it sounds like there's an invitation inherent in what you're doing for people to work on themselves. And I'm wondering, how does, how does that work for you?
[00:15:22] How do you, how do you employ that? And if you do specifically and what are the results that you get at the end of the process?
[00:15:32] Meridith Grundei: Oh, that's a, that's a great question. Yeah. I think it's the way that I guide people through things that I give them the invitation to drop in and think in those ways. And I do always call it an invitation.
[00:15:46] I don't try to force things upon people. I think it's important for people to make their own discoveries. And so I, I repeat myself a lot in the debrief. So touch in, you know, [00:16:00] I have an Allen Ginsburg quote that I like to use often, which is notice what you notice. And then I feel like the more that I can repeat back, the things that I'm inviting people to do, whether they make those discoveries in the room or on the zoom room, if you will, these days, but in the room with me.
[00:16:19] Great. But they may not make those discoveries until a month later when they're sitting at their desk. And something happens that triggers a response or a strong emotion, and then they can reflect back to that exercise. So I think that there's time and space for integration with these things and the repetition can help with that.
[00:16:41] I hope that answered the first part of your question. Can you repeat the second part of your question? Sure.
[00:16:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: The, the second part was actually really about. Like you said they might notice months later. I, I recently noticed something that I did in a theater class in college many, many years ago, and sort [00:17:00] of got an aha moment from that.
[00:17:01] And I'm wondering when you go through the process in the moment, if you have any stories about those results so that you can see them. So that they're like the, the gentlemen whose whose son had, who was going through chemo. The people there were changed, right? The results were pretty immediate by hearing his story.
[00:17:21] And I'm wondering, I guess I'm, I'm being a little bit, you know, I'm being a little shameless cause I'm like, tell me, tell me the results, Meredith good stuff, you know, but
[00:17:30] Meridith Grundei: fair enough. You know, but,
[00:17:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: but it's, it's because I think we don't spend a lot of time in that space. Wow, this, this has changed me. And let me spend a little time figuring out how it has changed me.
[00:17:44] So in those, in those spaces, when you're cause you're holding space for people to be themselves, which I love what, what are the profound results, small and large in those processes?
[00:17:57] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, that's a really great question. I think there are [00:18:00] multiple ones. One is how you work collectively as a team. And that's why I think the work is important to do.
[00:18:07] And I think that's why leadership needs to show up too, you know, because oftentimes I've noticed that leadership will set something up for their team management will and then management won't be there. So all of these people have learned their team has learned this like great news. Tools and then management isn't there.
[00:18:25] So that first off I was just wanting to say the collective whole is super important. I think in order for a transformation to happen and to see the actual results For me, it's about, for example, seeing the results, how do you organize a meeting? Right. So because of some of the tools in the, in the debrief, we find out where some of the pain points are and how they can be solved through those exercises.
[00:18:51] So if you're in an it, for example, in an ideation phase, or you're a part of an agile or scrum group or your, whatever the industry [00:19:00] might be, and you're in that first infant stages of creating. When everyone in the group has this idea of what yes. And is and how it can be applicable, it shifts things.
[00:19:11] Let's get all the ideas up on the whiteboard or on the post-it notes. And let's see what emerges without saying no. There will be room for no later there will be room for, I see this. And can we do this later? Just get all the ideas out there because what that also does is it creates a room of inclusivity.
[00:19:31] So all voices get to be heard. Nobody is being cut off. Nobody is being told. No all ideas are good ideas at that moment in time, because what happens is in ideation in brainstorming and creativity. We want to it's so often that we want to look at, what's not working first and I'm a big fan of looking at like, well, let's look at what is working and let's get it all out there because whatever, if, if this, if you have an [00:20:00] instant to a, no, that no actually might inspire the idea that does work.
[00:20:05] Does that make sense? Absolutely.
[00:20:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: No, it absolutely. It does. And it's interesting because. As I'm listening to you, I'm going the people who are actually doing the work, nobody knows their job better than they do. You know, nobody knows what you do better than you do. So if you're going to ask for ideas and make the caveat that there are no bad ones, just throw them out.
[00:20:30] Some of those people have never been heard from before. And it sounds like you're giving them the, the, the stage, if you will, the opportunity. And then they can. Present their own. I do something similar with some of the workshops I do giving space so that people who aren't often heard from can, can have their say.
[00:20:50] And I love what you said about leadership being invited and almost mandatory show up folks, because that presents an opportunity for [00:21:00] them to, to see some of those ideas that they otherwise might not see. Right.
[00:21:06] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, exactly. And they also get to see the dynamics of the. They get to see how people work together in these different situations that they may not be able to see in the day-to-day grind of the work.
[00:21:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, absolutely. And that's so interesting. So talk to me about team dynamics. What is that? What is team dynamics? You mentioned it a couple of times and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on exactly what it is and how we can use it specifically, because this is the innovative mindset podcast. How can we use it to innovate?
[00:21:37] How can we use it to think.
[00:21:40] Meridith Grundei: Yeah. Well, the first place that I go to is using each other's different sets of skills as an asset. Right. And so that we look at, so I'll just bring it back to like what Dennis works with with the different personality types. We all have different ways of seeing and approaching an idea or a problem [00:22:00] solving and finding a solution to something.
[00:22:03] Right. My husband and I could not be more different in how we problem solve something, but it's how we choose to work together and communicate in order to solve that problem. And so what I really appreciate about using these, like I said before, they have no real world what's the word I'm looking for?
[00:22:23] No consequences. Thank you. Ding, ding, ding. They have no real world consequences, right? But what it does is it really helps bring to the surface, these different personality types, and rather getting frustrated with that person who might be more on the execution thing and, or getting more, really uptight around that person.
[00:22:42] The out of the box, creative thinker, it's like, how do you take those two different personality types and put them together so that they can actually work efficiently and effectively together and see each other's different types of personality types as an asset to the, to solving a problem. So when I talk about team [00:23:00] dynamics, I mean that, to me, it's about, yes, and-ing each other, seeing each other and ourselves.
[00:23:05] Brilliance and how they can all fit together so that we can be effective and efficient with our day to day work and tasks and show each other mutual respect and honor each other's differences.
[00:23:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. You just said that last part because that's one of the things that I find happens is that. That can sometimes be missing that, that, that respecting that other people think differently and that not only is it okay, but it's to be celebrated because they can come at it from a perspective.
[00:23:35] Yeah. You may not have seen. So let me ask you a strange question and maybe it's not a strange question. I imagine there are times when you're doing one of these workshops that you meet resistance from the people and all
[00:23:51] Meridith Grundei: that die. Yeah. I, I, I
[00:23:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm like, yeah, this is kind of a
[00:23:55] Meridith Grundei: silly question. Not a strange question at all.
[00:23:58] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And so, you know, [00:24:00] because some people given the room to play, maybe of playing, if you see what I mean. So I'm wondering what, when you meet resistance, how. What are the innovative ways that you encourage invite, inspire people to, to let go of the fear a little, or maybe to push through the fear? I'm not sure what, what, what your way is in order to actually get the best out of the expense.
[00:24:29] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, I think it's a wonderful question. And I will say the most resistant resistance that I am met with is usually at the very beginning, I walk into the room and I oftentimes get the, who is this person what's happening? Why are we forced to do this? Like, you can just feel the energy in the room is palpable.
[00:24:47] And and it's not all the time. I mean, sometimes you've got the one person in the room that's like, I love improv. Like, thank God for you being in the room. Right. And And so what happens is pretty [00:25:00] quickly, I have everyone gathered in a circle. I have them push their chairs back and, you know, if I can get into the room to arrange it the way that I would like it to, to be the best learning experience possible for everyone, I do that sometimes I can't do that.
[00:25:13] So it's a little bit of a rearranging, right. And in that moment, I'm warming myself up. I'm introducing myself to people. I'm giving them eye contact. I'm making sure they know that I'm not as scary. I don't look scary to, to begin with. I'm like, Three and I weigh a hundred pounds, so they're scared of me.
[00:25:28] That's a bigger issue. But so then I gather people do a circle and we S we do, you know, some gradual warmups and and I get to know who they are. They get to know me. And what happens is quite. It's beautiful. I will say it's just beautiful. Is that somehow within that timeframe within the first 30 minutes of being there, I have given them permission to play and it's as if no one else has given them that permission in a really long [00:26:00] time.
[00:26:01] And I can't tell you it's the most wonderful, beautiful shift that I have ever experienced. Is with people who are non-performers, who have no idea what they're about to get into. And then all of a sudden they understand it and they're like, oh my God, I get to just play for three hours. Awesome. And so that is usually I will say That's most of my experiences, every so often you'll get the one person it's usually one person and I hate to say it, but it's usually a guy who has a lot of resistance.
[00:26:37] And so I, there it's a fine balance, right? Because you don't want that person to take up air time for everybody else. You don't want to, so it's a delicate balance of agreement and saying, let's take a risk here and let's look at your own stuff. And oftentimes it, [00:27:00] it works out. Okay. Right. And I'm a big fan of doing, I touch back into and I, and I noticed these things and I feel.
[00:27:07] I might send an email and do a check-in with that person later. Or I might check in with their management later because I do care and I want to know where the resistance is living in the body and, or in the mind and or with past experiences. Because even though the work is playful, even though we are having a good time with each other, it can still bring up stuff for people.
[00:27:28] It just. Sure. We're humans. So with, with lots of layers and somehow within that layers of that onion, there was one that I really, I got out with some people, so putting care and love into it.
[00:27:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love again, I love that you said that I'm going to just say that after everything you say, and it's interesting what you were talking about.
[00:27:52] Like every once in a while, the person with real resistance, I find that digging deeper means that they are. That they're a [00:28:00] frustrated performer or that they were told that they shouldn't speak or should, or, or don't have talent or skills in the very thing that they want to do, which is be out there with, with the bad cells.
[00:28:11] And so there's this, there's this confidence piece and there's a, there's a vulnerability piece to that, to what I'm hearing you talk about that I would love to explore for a minute. What I know you've already mentioned that. Lots of vulnerability, even though we're playing. And even though we're having a good time, there's, there's a real vulnerability to, to stepping into the limelight.
[00:28:34] Well, and when, when someone does, I'm sure that you've had lots of stories about that, but when they do that, how does, how do you handle it and how does the rest of the group. Transform because it's not just the individual person that transforms. I imagine the rest of the group transforms also when someone is really vulnerable.
[00:28:58] Yeah. [00:29:00]
[00:29:01] Meridith Grundei: That's a really good question. I'm trying to think. Well, I keep going back to that one story. There's a couple of stories that have popped into my head. I think. In those moments for me, I think each situation is different. So I do adapt according to each of the situations. And I might have, for example, a game that follows the exercise that we just did. And for me as the coach, as the facilitator, it's important to know what to let go of for the betterment of the whole.
[00:29:32] And so there have been a couple times where I've had to let go of my agenda. So that I could best meet the group with where they're at. And and I'm not overly transparent about that. I just go with the flow and then we, we spend our attention in that place. And then there's an opportunity for further dialogue.
[00:29:55] And I, I always do feel that it is the way that the rules of engagement that are set up before. Right. [00:30:00] Are helpful in facilitating this as well, because I come from a place of, I want to hear, I want to hear from you what feels true. I want to hear what's working. And then I want to hear where you have curiosities around this feeling or within this exercise that we just had that came up for you.
[00:30:20] The feelings that you have are completely valid and they're yours. There nobody else's so let's all figure this out together and let's find a way to communicate this that feels safe. And so I, I hope that answered your question. Did it?
[00:30:39] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yes, it did. Good. Funny about the show is that the, a lot of the feedback that I get from the shows that wow, these conversations go so deep and we do so.
[00:30:52] Yes, you answered.
[00:30:54] Meridith Grundei: Well, you know, I had another story that popped in my head as it was a disaster story where we, it was a [00:31:00] huge organization and the person who organized it was going through a lot of stuff. And so it was not organized very, very well at all. And I ha I was met with serious resistance and then the, or the, I heard the client was not happy.
[00:31:17] And so in that moment, I literally. Everything rallied the troops and was like, we, because there was six of us on this gig and I was responsible for having brought in like five of the six of us, all of us. I was responsible for bringing in these people. And I was like, we need to shift gears. And we had to do a whole, like, we changed the whole curriculum, the whole thing, everything because of what, what happened.
[00:31:43] And I think that's. You know, I think that's something improv has taught me is to be adaptable, be in the moment, be a problem solver. If you dig in your heels, it's not because you had one thing planned and it's not working out the way that you think it's going to work out. Then [00:32:00] you're going to be in a lot of trees.
[00:32:01] A lot. And so I have learned so often you just got to sometimes say, yep, you're right. This isn't working. And now we're going to figure out a new solution to this. And I am so grateful for that tool.
[00:32:17] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And it's a great tool because if you are not adaptable, you're pushing up a really heavy Boulder
[00:32:22] Meridith Grundei: up there.
[00:32:23] Oh my God. It's some people think they're adaptable. And I got to say, you're not, I'm so sorry, but you're not being there with them all. Yeah.
[00:32:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And that, that can be a tough, a tough nut to swallow. Right. So, so I, you know, it's interesting, we've been talking a lot about courage and talking about confidence and in its relationship to, to the teams that you work with within, within a presentation.
[00:32:48] And I'm wondering if there's something you, you mentioned way earlier that you got drawn to helping people be themselves. In certain kinds of [00:33:00] situations in whether it's corporate or not, but you're, you, you said you were drawn to helping people and I'm wondering what, what draws you to helping people become better at not just the, oh, we're working well as a team, but at public speaking and presenting and being up in front of others and telling their own story, like what, what draws you about that and how do you do that?
[00:33:25] Meridith Grundei: Hmm. Thank you. I have always just maybe it's I w I went to church camp a lot as a kid, and then I ended up becoming a camp counselor and all of these things. And I feel like I just, from a very young age, loved teaching and loved helping other people find their voices. And I feel like, you know, partly it's because, you know, In my childhood.
[00:33:52] And when I was more, in my teenage years, I have a father who had PTSD and I found it tremendously difficult to have a [00:34:00] voice in my family to be heard. And so I think that I am very sensitive to other people who also struggle with being heard in the way they want to. And so I would say that would probably be the core of the root of it.
[00:34:14] And I am a huge advocate of mentorship. I, I love. I just feel like it's so important, especially in this day and age too, to help lift the voices of others, to tell them that yes, they can achieve whatever they want to achieve, that they can, that they can they can overcome adversity. And that just feels, it just lights me up.
[00:34:38] It just, it really does. I guess that's the best answer I have for you is I can't imagine myself doing anything else, but working with people I'm I am quite the empath, like some too, sometimes to a fault right. Where I'm like, I overthink things, [00:35:00] but I really, I do care about people. I really do care about their experiences and making sure that they have a voice in the room and in this world,
[00:35:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And again, I love that.
[00:35:11] See this, I've just kept saying that. And I, and I am not at all surprised that you're an empath and being able to do that, being so able to be sensitive to the place where other people are, what they're feeling, what they're, what they're perhaps thinking all of that. It changes how you relate to them. And if someone.
[00:35:36] A real fear. Like I used to have a phobia, not, not that, not that you can tell now, since I'm all over the place, as far as speaking, but I used to have a real phobia of public speaking from learning English as a fourth language and being terrified. And I, I worked through it. I overcame it and now I'm out there presenting all the time and I'm actually grateful to that time.
[00:35:59] It [00:36:00] helped me understand what other people are going through when they're afraid. And so when you're, when you're coaching someone to improve their skills at presenting, or if they have a presentation that they have to do, and they're terrified, what do you do to help them?
[00:36:19] Meridith Grundei: Yes. Well, I, I first, I always start with where they're at and where they wanna go. And how they want to be seen. And. I am. My philosophy is to give as many tools as I possibly can, because I don't think it's a one size fits all for everybody. I think that with as many tools as I can possibly give them, they can find what works best for them.
[00:36:45] Right? So the tools that I will provide science, our breathing exercises, physical exercises, because the mind body connection is incredibly important. The heart centered mind. The connection [00:37:00] is important. I give them different tools on how to prepare, right? How to practice. Cause there's more than one way to practice.
[00:37:10] There is no set acronym. That's going to teach you how to become an amazing person pro you know rehearsal. Is that even a word? I'm sure it's true today. It is. And so. I just feel that what I have found over time is that people would tell me, this is how you do it. This is how it's done. And then I would go back like, as an actor, I would get all of these, this input on how I was supposed to practice or how I was supposed to memorize my lines or how I was supposed to, how I was supposed to do this, do this, do this.
[00:37:41] And I'd noticed that no one ever gave me permission to sit back and try to figure out what worked for me. Right because everyone has an opinion, everyone's opinion is going to be different from the last person's opinion. That's just the way it is. So you really giving that permission for [00:38:00] people to find what works for them and giving them enough tools to be able to do that.
[00:38:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm taking it in for a second. Sorry. I like. Take a second and really synthesize what I've just heard.
[00:38:22] the thing, the key for me of what you just said is that it's a two-pronged approach. The, what is that you need to do. And then here are the tools to help you do it. Like what world, what will work for you may not work for anybody else. Right? What works for me may not work for anybody else, but giving permission.
[00:38:44] And not just you giving them permission, but them giving themselves permission to explore, I think is so crucial. And how do you, how do you innovate that? How do you encourage people who might have a phobia? Like, like I used to, [00:39:00] to give themselves permission, not just to play, but to go deep and explore into who they are and.
[00:39:08] What is it that they want to say what their messages?
[00:39:12] Meridith Grundei: Yeah. I'll give you an exact example of one thing. So I have this group called confidently confidently speaking, which is a group coaching on mighty networks thing that I put together and it's only a month old and I do a Q and a, so it's it's four weeks or.
[00:39:30] Every it's for me. Yes. Every month, each week I have a jeez Louise each week, I have a different focus. And on the fourth week of the month, I do a Q and a, and that feels important to me so that people can ask their questions and they can also provide me feedback so that I can better grow the community.
[00:39:48] And what I heard from the last Q and a. Is, there was some struggle with feeling confidence around being in front of the camera and being in front of the camera in communicating your message and your brand is huge. And we're [00:40:00] getting more and more on video. I mean, I think things are going to turn more in that direction than ever before.
[00:40:07] And so I heard all of that and I said, okay, Well, then we're going to do a 30 day video challenge. And if three of you sign up, I'm going to do it with you because it's important that you see that I'm going to go and do this alongside of you. And we're all going to learn together. And then we're going to come together at the end of this 30 day challenge.
[00:40:28] And we're going to share what we learned when we started and where we're at, and we're going to share where we're at now. And I think. That gives people permission to go, wow, my coach is doing this alongside of me because I always have something to learn too. I'm not, I'm not like a master at all of these things.
[00:40:49] You know, I mean, there are masters, but masters in something. Educating themselves and learning. And it also helps people feel like they're not alone in, in [00:41:00] this growth period in their life. And that's why I like the group coaching and that peer to peer support piece of it is because you can really quickly see I'm not the only one that feels this way, that there's still a lot of work to be done.
[00:41:14] And and it's okay that I'm at where I'm at. Right.
[00:41:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting. There's a, there's a wonderful book by Pema Chodron. I love him the children. Oh, yay. I love her work and I love the book title almost more than I love the book. It's start where you are. I just think that's so it's so simple and so profound at the same time that giving yourself permission to start where you are and not judging yourself for.
[00:41:46] Not being further along than you are, you know? So, so have you done the full 30 days yet? How, how have the stories been about the people who have taken the challenge on. We
[00:41:59] Meridith Grundei: [00:42:00] are on day two, we just started, we just started. It's pretty awesome. And there's a, there's a couple people that I was not expecting that totally jumped in and I am so excited.
[00:42:14] I'm so excited that it just gets, I just, I am just thrilled to pieces when people take the risk and I've given them the platform to do so. Like we did A story exercise a couple of weeks ago. And a couple people chose to put their stories on video. I said, you know what? However you need to tell that story, tell it if it's typing it and sending it to us in a document.
[00:42:38] If it's putting it on video, just tell your story. So I think again, it's giving them the permission to use it. There's no right. There's no one way to do something.
[00:42:50] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it's one of my, one of my favorite things on a circle you can get to the center [00:43:00] point from an infinite number of places.
[00:43:02] And that is that to me is says so much and there is no. No, that's not true. I will say that there are wrong ways, like forgetting to turn your camera off yeah. On or off or whatever, you know? Sure.
[00:43:15] Meridith Grundei: But at
[00:43:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: the same time, so yeah. Cause I've done that I've done, I've recorded entire podcast episodes without having turned on the recording equipment.
[00:43:24] So, so that has happened and, and yet it's, it's a Mo it's a teaching and a learning opportunity for you.
[00:43:32] Meridith Grundei: Yes, I was just going to ask, but what did you learn from that? Exactly. What did you do different next time? So yeah, now I have a
[00:43:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: checklist hanging over my desk. It says, these are the things you have to do.
[00:43:41] And again, that that's, that to me is a really important piece of what you're doing is that you don't have to be perfect. You have to be where you are, you know, wherever you are and if you can stretch yourself. That's great. So, so within that, is there a place that someone can go to, to go? [00:44:00] I want to learn from.
[00:44:02] Where should they go to do that? To find.
[00:44:06] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, thank you for asking that question. I can be found in a few places. One is Grund di coaching.com and that's G R U N as in Nancy, D as in dog, E i.com. Meredith. Yeah, granddad coaching.com. And then. Confidently speaking.club, it's hosted on mighty networks.
[00:44:28] So you could also look through mighty networks. And then I have my performance. I still am a performer on Meredith grand di.com. And my name is spelled with two eyes. It's M E R I D I T H grandad.com. And then of course, LinkedIn and all the socials. I'm not on Facebook though. I got off base. What's driving me batty.
[00:44:48] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I hear you. That that is one of those things and there's, I could keep you here for the next six hours. I know. I love
[00:44:57] Meridith Grundei: talking to you. It's so much fun. You ask me your [00:45:00] questions. I'm like, I love your question. And I'm like, did I answer it? I hope I answered it. You're
[00:45:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: fabulous. Yes, you absolutely have.
[00:45:09] There's there's a couple more questions. If you have time. First of all, I was honored to be on your podcast recently. So much fun. So I'm really glad that you were able to come and join me here on, on, in an innovative mindset. So I'm, the podcast is called. Are you waiting for permission that you cohost with a wonderful gentleman named Joseph Bennett?
[00:45:31] And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what the podcast is and what permission people might be waiting for?
[00:45:41] Meridith Grundei: Yeah, the, so the podcast is. Inspired by Joseph on a Sunday. I think about four months ago, it's only four months old and the crazy wow. He said he woke up and he's like, I want to do a podcast with Meredith.
[00:45:56] And so he called me and I said, sure, let's do a podcast. [00:46:00] And we came up with this title. Are you waiting for permission? Joseph, I think was reading a book and it was a line in a book and I said, perfect. This is that. Yes. And it is intended for creatives and artists who. Stopped waiting for permission.
[00:46:17] And so they started giving themselves permission to live the life that they want and to create the work that they want and to follow their dreams. And we, our intention with the podcast is we really want our listeners. To see that there are multiple ways that they can to give themselves permission to follow their dreams.
[00:46:41] And we even have one listener who quit her job. She said, I listened to your podcast. And that was it. I had this email sitting in the inbox for two years and I finally sent it and I quit my job that I was miserable at. Wow. And. That, that was really, and we, of course, we had to interview her on [00:47:00] our podcast and we did, and that will be released in the next few weeks.
[00:47:03] But that is our, that is our hope with the podcast is to keep encouraging people, to take leaps of faith, to take risk and to give themselves permission. And through that, we give resources, we answer questions now for people on the podcast as well. And we invite. You know, guests like yourself who are dynamic humans that have also carved a path.
[00:47:27] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And it's a fabulous podcast. If you're not listening, you should go super subscribe, just like right now. And that's that? No, it is. I enjoy it. I enjoy it because. It's like you called yourself a multi-passionate person, but also the guests tend to be multi-passionate and tend to want to explore different avenues.
[00:47:50] And I am about, I am. Multi-passionate, doesn't begin to cover all of that, that I try to do. And I've [00:48:00] decided for myself that it's not do what you love for me. Love what you're doing while you're doing it. And that's, that's, that's, that's my solution to that whole conundrum. And so I'm, I'm really glad that you, that you both started this show because I find that I'm learning and I'm having a good time.
[00:48:22] And often you, you get podcasts where you have one or the other maybe, but not both. And yours. Yours does both, which I think is great. And I think that's what you're doing with the work that you're doing is that people. Yes, you're, you're calling on them to be vulnerable and have, and have courage, and you're giving them a space to play and explore who they are.
[00:48:45] And I think that's amazing. So thank you so much for doing the work that you're doing. I really it's necessary in this world, so I'm really glad you're out there doing. Yeah, no,
[00:48:53] Meridith Grundei: thank you.
[00:48:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: So Meredith I have one last question and by the way, all of the, all of the. [00:49:00] Social media and all of the ways to contact you will be in the show notes as well, but people learn differently.
[00:49:05] So I like to give both both ways of seeing or multiple ways of seeing the information or hearing the information. And I have one last question that I ask everybody who comes on the show and FIA, it's a silly question, but I find that it can yield some, some profound answers. So the question is this.
[00:49:24] If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see. What would you say?
[00:49:31] Meridith Grundei: Just
[00:49:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: breathe.
[00:49:37] I love that. I love that. So that's a great what a great answer. Yes. So important. So important. I, I like to say that you can live. Three weeks without food, you can last three days without water, but you can only last three minutes without air. So is crucial,
[00:49:54] Meridith Grundei: crucial. It is so crucial and we don't do it enough.
[00:49:59] We hold our [00:50:00] breath so
[00:50:01] Izolda Trakhtenberg: much. Yeah. And, and one of the things that's most interesting to me about the theater that I was an English drama major in college. And one of the things that was most interesting to me was when I first started really learning. How to use breath to perform, to, to play. I play violin.
[00:50:22] So breathing is not, it's not a woodwind or brass instrument or whatever, but at the same time breathing as part of singing, breathing is part of doing anything, gives yourself space as well as being nourishing for your, for your body and your mind and your spirit. So I'm so grateful that you said that.
[00:50:42] What a wonder. Way of looking at it. Meredith I'm super grateful that you took the time to be on the show. I thank you so much for being.
[00:50:51] Meridith Grundei: Oh, thank you so much for having me as old. I have, I, this has been a wonderful conversation, so thank you. And I hope you'll come back. Oh, I will [00:51:00] hope you come back to our podcast too.
[00:51:01] I'd be delighted.
[00:51:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: So we started the episode giggling and we're finishing again.
[00:51:07] Meridith Grundei: Yes. I love it. Big fan. I love it. I love it.
[00:51:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: You have coming to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. This has been a fabulous conversation with Meredith grandad, and I hope that you will check out both confidently speaking.
[00:51:24] And are you waiting for permission and all the other incredible work that Meredith is doing? If you're enjoying these episodes, please do me a favor rate and review the show. I'd love to hear from you about what you're thinking about the show where it's going. Very soon on July. No, actually this, this air is way after we've already celebrated our 400th episode.
[00:51:43] Can you believe a hundred episodes? Amazing. I'm super good. Yeah, it's exciting. So I hope that you're enjoying the show and I will remind you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.[00:52:00]
[00:52:02] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. If you'd like to be a sponsor of the show. I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[00:52:20] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.
 
* I am a Brain.fm affiliate. If you purchase it through the above links and take the 20% off, I’ll get a small commission. And please remember, I’ll never recommend a product or service I don’t absolutely love!
 

How to Find the Poignant Story with Vanishing Postcards Host, Evan Stern

Vanishing Postcards host and storyteller Evan Stern on the importance of telling the stories from the places that are off the interstate.
This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*
URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset
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Born during the driving rainstorm that inspired Stevie Ray Vaughan to record the classic “Texas Flood,” Evan Stern is one of a proud few who can claim Austin as his legitimate hometown. Having caught the performing bug early on, he first gained attention at age 11 with a second-place finish in Austin’s famed O. Henry Pun Off, and has since graced the stages of New York’s Carnegie Hall and Lincoln Center. A graduate of Sarah Lawrence College and the British American Drama Academy, whether acting Shakespeare, or charming audiences with the turn of a Cole Porter phrase, Evan is first and foremost a storyteller, with a sincere love and appreciation for history, travel and the art of raconteurship. He is now honored to return to Texas for the first season of Vanishing Postcards, an ambitious project that represents a synthesis of these passions through the form of audio essay.
Vanishing Postcards is a documentary travelogue in which listeners are invited on a road trip exploring the hidden dives, traditions, and frequently threatened histories that can be discovered by exiting the interstates. Named one of the Best Podcasts of 2021 by Digital Trends.
Connect with Evan
IG - @vanishing_postcards
IG - @evansternnyc
Podcast- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/vanishing-postcards/id1544610020
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Evan Stern: It's hard for me to really latch on one specific lesson that I have gained, but I do believe that. Everybody wants, ultimately wants to be heard.
[00:00:18] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.
[00:00:39] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do. Deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset to check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let's get to the show.
[00:00:58] Yeah.[00:01:00]
[00:01:02] Hey there. And welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm your host, and I'm super thrilled that you're here. I'm also really excited and thrilled to talk about and meet this week's guest. Listen to this. Evan stern was born during the driving rainstorm that inspired Stevie Ray Vaughn to record the class.
[00:01:22] Texas flood. I love that Evan stern is one of a proud few who can claim Austin. S's legitimate hometown that's the town is growing. So, wow. That's amazing how few people probably are from there. Having caught the performing bug early on. He first gained attention at age 11 with a second place finish in Austin's famed.
[00:01:43] Oh, Henry punt off. And it says grace, the stages of new York's Carnegie hall and Lincoln center, a graduate of Sarah Lawrence college. American drama academy. Wow. Whether acting Shakespeare or charming audiences with the turn of a Cole Porter phrase, Evan is first and foremost, a storyteller, and [00:02:00] you know how close that is to my heart.
[00:02:02] He's got a sincere love and appreciation for history travel and the art of a wreck on tour ship. He's now honored to return to Texas for the first season of vanishing postcards and ambitious project that represents a synthesis of these passions through the form of audio essay. Vanishing postcards is a documentary travel log in which listeners are invited on a road trip, exploring the hidden dives, traditions, and frequently threatened histories that can be discovered by exiting the interstates named one of the best podcasts of 2021 by digital trends, evidence here to talk about banishing postcards and everything else.
[00:02:37] So amazing that he's doing Evan. Thank you so much for being there. Show welcome.
[00:02:41] Evan Stern: Thank you so much for having me. It's a great honor. Oh,
[00:02:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: you're very sweet. So I I'm, this is such an exciting thing. Delving into the history of Texas. First of all, into the, into the storytellers of Texas into the dives and the honky-tonks of Texas as a travel log.[00:03:00]
[00:03:00] But as a podcast, what, what inspired you to do this? What inspired you to go? You know what? I'm going to create this travel log. And I'm going to make it about my home state. What happened that you went, yes, I want to do this.
[00:03:13] Evan Stern: Well, it was, it, it wasn't as if there was a lightning bolt of inspiration. It was a very kind of slow gradual process.
[00:03:21] Um, and, and you told me, you know, a few years ago that right now I'd be working on a podcast. Um, you know, I might've said really. Um, but like, like so many though, I am one of those people who over the last 10 years just absolutely fell in love. Podcasting, um, and the, um, audio medium of storytelling, I think kind of the gateway drug for me, um, was years ago, I started listening to the moth, you know, just people getting up and telling personal stories without notes.
[00:03:52] I, I just absolutely loved it. Um, then you start discovering, um, other programs, you know, like the, the kitchen [00:04:00] sisters and, and, and, and there's, you know, different, different stuff. I mean, there, there's a wonderful podcast about classic Hollywood called you must remember this. There's one about country music called cocaine and rhinestones, um, and around, and, you know, not too long ago as well.
[00:04:18] Um, you know, the YouTube algorithm, uh, kept suggesting for whatever reason that I watched these, uh, travel blog, travel blog videos, and in watching them, I would never really see the way that I enjoy traveling represented. Um, I mean, certainly it's not always the case, but I think more often than not, when you, when you see videos of that nature, it's much less about the places themselves.
[00:04:45] It's much more about the people saying, oh, look at me and how cute I am in this place. Um, and I just kind of gradually started thinking, you know, I wonder if there is something that, uh, that, that I can do. [00:05:00] Um, and initially I had this grand idea. That I wanted to do a show that was going to be a musical travel log of Mexico.
[00:05:09] Um, you know, I'm, I'm immersed in the gig economy in New York, and I always try my best to get away January February just to, to escape the, the bitter cold of the winter. And, um, you know, Mexico is my happy place. It's, it's cheap, it's warm. Um, and so I initially had this idea that I was going to go, uh, kind of explore, use music as a portal to exploring the cultural, regional history of Mexico.
[00:05:36] I was going to go to Vera Cruz that was going to where the tradition of, you know, and one a Watteau and, um, you know, in Monterey and the north. And I went so far as to, uh, produce a pilot episode, um, in Marietta Yucatan, um, about the tradition of the trophies that they have there. And it's one thing to, you know, when you're running an event, [00:06:00] Um, you know, you're thinking to yourself, oh my goodness, this is just going to be the best thing ever.
[00:06:05] This is going to be amazing. And then you sit down and you listen to what you have spent months working on and you go, oh my goodness, I have missed the mark. So terribly. Um, it was a perfect lesson in show. Don't tell, I mean, w what happened was, is I talked all about the city of Marietta. It's about its history, this, that, and the other, but you didn't actually, um, when, when you were listening to it, I also learned pretty quickly that the, the human voice has such terrific color, shade, and nuance to it.
[00:06:37] That if you have an actor come in, um, to a dub over, uh, you know, what was said in English, you just, you just lose so much. Um, and I realized pretty quickly that I needed to learn much more about audio production before tackling a project of that ambitious nature. And so I started thinking to myself, well, you know what.
[00:06:59] Might [00:07:00] not be as exotic as Mexico, but if there's one thing I know it's that Texas people love to talk and they tell great stories. So in January of 2020, um, grab some equipments. Um, and I went back down to Texas to see what I could do. Um, really, it was just, uh, going to be kind of an experiment. Um, but it very quickly evolved into vanishing postcards.
[00:07:26] Um, what happened was, is I took a look at what I was doing, um, and I realized that each episode was a snapshot of a different place. And if there was a thing that the place has had in common it's that you didn't know how much longer a lot of them were going to be around or that they were representative of broader cultural histories or traditions that.
[00:07:52] You know, you, you just, they're kind of rare, um, in, in this kind of fast paced rapidly homogenizing [00:08:00] world. Um, and, um, since then it, it became, it it's, it's been an incredibly rewarding journey. Um, you know, as I maybe referenced earlier in, in many ways, it is kind of a 180 from a lot of the work I've previously done at the, at the same time.
[00:08:17] Um, I feel that all of that work really kind of beautifully prepared me for it. Um, and having embarked on this journey, um, I ended up covering like about 1500 miles of, of Texas and, um, having embarked on this journey as a solo traveler, um, I'm now really grateful that the series is out in the world. Um, and I can invite, uh, you know, people like you and listeners really around the world, uh, to, to join me now and experience, uh, everything that I got to do.
[00:08:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. That's amazing. And it's incredible to me, what you just said about how you took everything that you had learned up until that [00:09:00] point and reframed it and repurposed it almost into this, this way of looking at your home state. And yet it is both technical and it takes a lot of artistry. And I'm wondering what, in, as part of, as part of doing this project, what did you learn?
[00:09:21] What was the thing that stood out for you that you learned maybe about yourself or about the people in your state or about the places? What was the biggest thing you learned and how did it change you?
[00:09:31] Evan Stern: Well, there's a lot, I mean, it's hard to, for me to really latch on one specific lesson that I have gained.
[00:09:38] Um, but I do believe that. Everybody wants, ultimately wants to be heard. They, they really do. Um, and I mean, people often ask me, you know, w w w w when I first started doing this, it was, it was in January, 2020. It was before the pandemic hit. Obviously the pandemic changed, um, a [00:10:00] lot of what I could do. Um, but I was really the first episodes that you'll hear in the series.
[00:10:05] I was really just kind of showing up at these places completely unannounced. Um, they really had no idea, um, that I was going to be there. Um, and it, it, people ask me, you know, did you meet resistance? We'll we'll really know. Um, everyone was, was intrigued. And for the most part, people were so honored that, you know, someone like me was taking an interest in their work, their place, uh, what they were doing.
[00:10:35] Um, and I don't think too, I mean, Someone recently asked me too, that, that when they, you know, listen to the, to the series, you know, that, you know, they, they feel as if I'm able to, you know, extract these, these stories. And they said, well, how, how do you, how do you make this magic happen? And, well, the truth is is that you, you can't, um, there is nothing that you can do to you.
[00:10:59] You never [00:11:00] really know what is is going to happen. Um, but the stories, if you just, if you start talking to people, um, you approach them with respect, empathy, and a willingness to listen. Um, and you ask them specific questions. Um, you just, you, you never know what you're going to. Um, and something that I tell anyone who's maybe interested in doing something like this.
[00:11:29] Um, I will say that if you do want to, you know, get stories, you do want to ask people specific questions. Um, I would never go up to someone and just say, tell me about yourself. Um, I might say, um, before we get started, could you maybe describe for me your childhood home, you know, something like that. And, um, that really kind of opens up the door and we just kind of take things from there.
[00:11:51] Yeah.
[00:11:56] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sorry. I'm taking all of that in. I like to take a pause to make sure [00:12:00] that I've, that I've understood everything. One of the things that I heard you say that really struck a chord with me was that it's about listening. And the other thing of course was asking those specific questions and. Were there any, and if so, what are they techniques that you use specifically as a, as a performer to help you with that part of it?
[00:12:26] Evan Stern: Well, you know, I honestly, I think that, um, as I said so much of my experience, um, leading PR prepared me in, in leading up to this, um, and a big job that I've had for a number of years here in the city is it's a very, it's a very strange job. Um, I work as a, what is called a standardized patient, um, that is the medical schools, programs, hire actors to facilitate simulations [00:13:00] for, uh, medical interns and students.
[00:13:03] Um, I have played all sorts of different cases. You'd never believe. I mean, they've had to diagnose me. I've been the graphic designer they've had to diagnose with cancer. Um, I have, uh, you know, I, I I've been the 19 year old crack addict who suffered a panic attack. You name it. I've I've had it. Um, but I have learned so much in, in working with these students in terms of how they build rapport and what works and what doesn't.
[00:13:34] Um, I think it's amazing. How many people, uh, it can be applied to interview situations, whatever, um, you know, you give someone a microphone. Sometimes they just kind of become a completely different person. You know, they think that every question, you know, has to be probing and every question, you know, has to have weight, but you really just have to remember how you talk to people in your [00:14:00] everyday life.
[00:14:02] You know, how do you introduce yourself to a stranger? Um, you know, you're just going to start talking to people, um, and you know, you, you read their body language and you, you really just it's about establishing trust. Um, and it, and I feel that people understand that. I don't think of myself as a journalist.
[00:14:30] Um, I'll be the first to say that I think of myself as more of an essayist. I really think that a journalist job is to investigate a journalist job is to probe. I'm not really there to do that. I'm really there just to, you know, kind of have a conversation and, and enjoy the ride and see where that ride takes.
[00:14:49] You know, I'm not, if someone tells me a tall tale, um, I'm not going to fact check that story. Um, but I think that people recognize [00:15:00] that. Um, and you know, I just think that, um, just, just really, like I said, just, just remembering how we relate to one another, uh, every day is, is just crucial.
[00:15:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, you're talking. I mean, as you're talking, I'm going, he's, he's talking about integrity and authenticity, and those words are abandoned about aura a lot nowadays, but it really, it seems to me that that's, that that's what you, that, that that's what, what you were using, you know, using who you, who you were authentically to meet these people.
[00:15:37] And I know you said that people asked you if you, if you met resistance, I'm wondering what was the most wild story you heard?
[00:15:46] Evan Stern: Goodness. Oh, man, there, there were, there was, uh, so, so there's this teeny town called Castile, Texas that sits on the Western edge of the, uh, [00:16:00] the hill country. It's absolutely beautiful, very isolated.
[00:16:04] The town has a population of six and, um, I don't even know if he's really there, mayor, I don't know if they actually have a mayor, but you know, the, the big local personality is Randy Love. Festi, uh, he's the owner of the Castille store. Um, I'll be releasing his episode in a, in a few weeks. Um, but, uh, when I was there, he told me that, uh, he had, uh, he, he, he, he took a trip to Cabo San Lucas with his girlfriend.
[00:16:36] Uh, they saw this, uh, chicken in a bar and he said, you know what, I need a chicken for the store. So, um, you know, he bought this, uh, roof. For the store. And, um, he had this, uh, Billy Bass that was like, you know, one of those electronic things, you know, you clap your hands in the best wiggles. Well, um, one day as he tells [00:17:00] me, he looks over and, um, this rooster is having sexual relations with that bass.
[00:17:05] So this thing he tells me became this huge sensation where people from all over the place started coming to town to see his rooster perform, you know, 12 times a day. And he was able to, uh, make hundreds of thousands of dollars in real estate deals that he was able to sell to the people who came through the store because of that rooster.
[00:17:27] And then he proudly led me into the store where he showed me this. He, you know, he, he called the rooster cockroach. Yeah, and the rooster died. And after the rooster died, he had that. He took him to the taxidermists and, um, had him, uh, mounted and placed on top of his good friend, Billy the bass. And I've seen a lot of taxidermy in my day.
[00:17:51] I don't think I have ever seen a stuffed rooster and I have certainly never seen a row stuffed rooster on top of a Billy Bass. I'll [00:18:00] tell you that right now.
[00:18:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. That is. Tall tale for sure.
[00:18:10] Oh my goodness. I uh, wow. Yeah, yeah. I don't even, I'm like, whatever. How do I follow that up? I think, I don't
[00:18:21] know. I did. I did, because you know, the thing, the thing about this is that anytime we tell stories or listen to stories, I think we're changed by them even if, even if it's, oh, that's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Your experience of life is, is, is changed in some way or another. So I guess I'm wondering, how have you been changed by doing this project?
[00:18:45] Evan Stern: Well, It's in many ways, it's been a dive into the unknown, as I said, it's, it's very, it was all very new for me in the beginning. Um, I had to do a lot of learning and [00:19:00] I re I really had to put myself out there. Um, it definitely, um, tested the boundaries of my comfort, um, in a lot of ways. Um, you know, you really just have to, as I said earlier, you have to go up out there and just start talking to people.
[00:19:16] Um, and I usually found that I was way more nervous than the people I was talking to. And, um, I was talking to someone else about this, um, experience. Someone said, and, you know, she asked me, she was like, well, how do you, where does that confidence come from? Where do you get that confidence? And I said, well, you know what?
[00:19:36] I, I, I think I've discovered that confidence is kind of overrated. Um, because you can't just read a book or, you know, attend a three-day workshop, whatever, and magically have confidence. It just doesn't happen that way. Confidence happens as a result of experience. Um, it happens as a result of mistakes. Um, and, [00:20:00] um, I think.
[00:20:02] I heard somewhere that, you know, what heroic act doesn't involve, just huge levels of vulnerability. Um, and so I, I think I have definitely grown in confidence as a result of all of this, but that really, uh, just is a by-product of, of the work itself and everything that, you know, has been asked of me to, to rise to this challenge
[00:20:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: and that in itself, the, the skills you've built, the ideas that you've gotten and, and brought to fruition is a big part of the change I would imagine. And I love, I'd love to discuss a little bit as you talk about this, what is the process? What was the creative process that goes in to making an episode to crafting vanishing posts?
[00:20:59] Evan Stern: Absolutely. [00:21:00] So each, you know, obviously I do have each episode does have a subject that I am interested in delving into. Um, there are people that I want to meet, just so you know, so basically, um, a bit more about the show itself for, for those listening out there. So essentially listeners are invited to join me on a road trip.
[00:21:23] And so each episode is produced in documentary style. So, you know, you're going to hear a lot of, it's not, you know, interview, it's not talk show, you're going to hear a lot of different voices. Um, you're going to hear some of my narration, um, and I really work hard to make it an immersive listening experience for those who, who are hearing the episodes.
[00:21:49] Um, but basically the, the way that I constructed is, um, there are. And, uh, as I said, you know, each episode, there are certain issues that, that I'm looking at. [00:22:00] Um, and so I just go, I, I talk to people, um, and I assemble a number of interviews at the, at the places that I go to. Um, you know, I try to talk to the, uh, the owners.
[00:22:14] I try to talk to the workers. I try to talk to the people who go to these places. Um, you're going to ask all of those people different questions. Um, but you're also, I think there, you know, you also want to, there are also some specific questions that I will ask all of them. Um, and then what I do is I, I come back home and I listened to all of the, um, I listened to all of the interviews and I extract, you know, the, the gold from each person I speak with, you know, I could very well talk to someone for like an hour out of that hour conversation.
[00:22:51] I might just take, you know, Three minutes worth of, of nuggets or whatnot. Um, and then I, you know, I, I look at [00:23:00] everything that I have and I stepped back and I, I just kind of look for it, you know, that, what, what, what, what, what are the commonalities, what, what do people keep coming back to, you know, are there opposing views?
[00:23:15] Um, and from there, I, I just kind of take these nuggets and I weave together a story out of all of that. Um, I really let my subjects kind of guide the way that the, the story moves and goes. Um, the, the most challenging job for me is in the writing process of pasting it all together. Um, everything has to have I learned, you know, for years, I, you know, I've, I've.
[00:23:45] Did a lot of performing in the cabaret world. Um, and you know, even if you're just putting together a show, that's, that's really kind of, you know, a series of songs, what is said in between those songs is every bit as [00:24:00] important as the songs themselves and everything has to have architecture and a beginning, middle and an end.
[00:24:06] Um, so the, the greatest challenge for me is about how I can link everything together, um, in the narration as part of a cohesive whole, um, you know, I think, but each episode, uh, you know, I, I never, totally, there are always things that I want to focus on, but you just never totally know where it's going to go.
[00:24:27] And before each one, um, I always ask my God, is this going to work? Um, but some so far it's worked out okay,
[00:24:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That moment of, oh, what if this is going to be a complete disaster? I know it well. Um, and it's, I'm so fascinated by what you're saying with respect to the storytelling, the beginning, middle and end, and the sort of the patter between songs in, in, in a cabaret show, all of, all of those things, those elements [00:25:00] of storytelling, what do you think is the result?
[00:25:06] What is the most crucial thing to put into it? And what is the result? How do you, when do you feel like yes, it has worked as opposed to, oh, it's going to be a disaster.
[00:25:16] Evan Stern: Well, as I said earlier, again, the most important thing is, is show don't tell, um, and what, what, what is always best for me is I try not to.
[00:25:34] I try not to express too much in the way of, of opinion. Um, what, what is really magical though, is just when you have, when you're talking to someone and, you know, whether they realize it or not, they, they share and tell a story that just kind of beautifully encapsulates everything, you know, that, that just really explains the issue [00:26:00] without it, you know, at that point, the work for you is, is really done.
[00:26:05] Um, but you know, kind of an example of, of something that, you know, I, I did that, that was a challenge, um, was, you know, I have an episode that's coming out in a bit where. I took a trip first to, to Brownsville, Texas, where I spoke with this man who is the last, uh, cook in the United States who was allowed to serve a barbacoa cooked barbacoa, as it was meant to be prepared, which means it's, it's cooked in a pit under the ground.
[00:26:37] Um, and that's what he does. He, he, he's serving barbacoa out of what had been his childhood home. Um, there's a pit out back that's in the ground and, you know, that's where he cooks it. The reason that he's allowed to do it is because his father started it in 1956 and it's been going on for this long. And so I focused on him and I did a segment on him.
[00:26:57] And then I went to San [00:27:00] Antonio and I, um, you know, met a cook there who, you know, talked about cooking up puffy tacos. And, um, it ended up, you know, she, her story went in a completely different direction. Um, I mean, her mother. Started this business out of, uh, out of a garage because it was her last hope. Um, she was an incredible woman, a revered figure in San Antonio, um, who, you know, was shockingly murdered.
[00:27:28] Um, and she talked all about that and, and, and everything. And, and then, and how she like found forgiveness and was being able to move beyond and, you know, everything that her, how her mother prepared her and how her mother expressed love through, through cooking. And, um, I realized that, you know, on, on the surface, you know, these two stories, yes, they were about cooking, but they were very, very different.
[00:27:55] But what, what is it that they had in common? I realized that, you know, [00:28:00] through their cooking, they were both expressing love. And for me, and that's how I brought the two together.
[00:28:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm still thinking, sorry, it's a beautiful, uh, yeah. That notion of, um, cooking and, and healing through cooking and expressing love through cooking, but also expressing love for, I guess, the, the heritage and the inspiration for what they did is so important. And I'm wondering if you have someone or figures or people in, in your world.
[00:28:45] Hoo hoo hoo. Does that for you? Who inspired you to do this? And if so, is it that same love, it sounds weird to say love connection, but is that connection one of love and respect? What [00:29:00] is it about the people or the images or, or the ideas that inspired you that comes from that place?
[00:29:11] Oh, no you're
[00:29:11] Evan Stern: thinking. Oh, no, of course, absolutely. I mean,
[00:29:20] There. I mean, who can you say, can you just rephrase the question in a simple, in a simple one sentence in a simple one sentence for me? Can you say, say what you're getting at
[00:29:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: again here? Sure. I'm just wondering who inspired you throughout the journey? Are there any public figures or is there anybody in Texas?
[00:29:37] Are there any people who made you go, ah, this is what I want. Well,
[00:29:41] Evan Stern: what I can say is that if, if there is a bar that I am always working towards, you know, never, never met him personally. Um, but I am old enough to remember growing up on CVS. There was a man by the name of Charles Kuralt who would travel the [00:30:00] country and he would really just kind of share good news is, is what he was, is what he was doing.
[00:30:07] And he. He, he never expressed anything in, in terms of, in, in, in showing these stories, he was able to present, you know, the best of people without really expressing anything in the way of judgment. And there are many situations throughout this process where I have asked myself, what would Charles Kuralt do?
[00:30:32] Hmm. Um, and you know, I, I don't mean to, I'm not trying to compare myself to Charles Caroll. Um, in the least, you know, I have much more work to do, you know, before I feel like I can get people called him the Walt Whitman of American television. Um, but I can tell you that that is the bar that I am always working towards.
[00:30:56] Um, and the greatest compliments that I have received, [00:31:00] um, you know, or when people have heard this series and said, oh, you know what, this reminds me of Charles Perrault.
[00:31:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That's lovely. And I remember Charles Caroll also on like, uh, CBS Sunday morning or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. His stories were all, you know, when, uh, you were mentioning the idea of love and heart.
[00:31:20] That's what I remember thinking about his stories was that they were always full of such quiet soul and heart. They didn't have to be huge stories, but they were, they always left me feeling better and always gave me something to think about. Well, yeah,
[00:31:38] Evan Stern: go on. Go on. No, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, and I do believe that there is a great void of that when you look at our media landscape right now, and th there, there really is.
[00:31:48] Um, we live in a horribly polarized, horribly divided age. Um, I, I do not believe that anything that we have lived through over the [00:32:00] last five, six years should be normalized. I will be the first to say that, um, But I do believe that, you know, the, the issues that we are wrestling with right now as a nation, uh, in the divisions that we're dealing with in terms of politics and race are completely unsustainable.
[00:32:20] But at the same time, I do think that there is more that we have in common than what we've realized. And I do think that culture right now is one of those rare areas of agreement. And what this show is about celebrating is that culture, um, you know, culture provides opportunity for shared experiences and you know, that that's really kind of what I'm getting at with, with all of this.
[00:32:53] Um, and, and additionally too, I mean, how can we expect for people in [00:33:00] our rural communities to appreciate what is good and beautiful about places like New York city or San Francisco, or even Austin for that matter, if we cannot appreciate what is good and beautiful about them,
[00:33:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: from what you just said, it feels like there's a sort of a, through the looking glass aspect to your show that you're inviting people to go on a journey with you to, to see these places or to listen to these, to these stories and to hear about them. When you do that, when you're in that space of inviting people on a journey, how do you decide which stories are the ones that are important to tell.
[00:33:52] Evan Stern: Well, something that's important to me. Is that so often when we think about art and [00:34:00] culture, I mean, we think about palaces of civilization, like the mat, the British museum, the, the loop, but the truth is that art and culture is everywhere. And oftentimes some of the best of it comes from places that you're just not going to read about in glossy magazines.
[00:34:20] You're not going to see about these places on Instagram. And it's really about exploring that, you know, Detroit gave us Motown, Clarksdale, Mississippi gave us the blues. Um, and, and for me, it's really kind of about seeking these, these places out. You know, if you read a, you know, if you read like a tourist guide book about Texas, they're going to tell you to go to the Alamo.
[00:34:49] They're going to tell you to go to the river walk, do this, do that. Um, There's so much more to that. I mean, I had the [00:35:00] great honor of visiting a town called San Benito, um, which is about, you know, 15, 18 miles north of the border. Um, and you know, th this is, you know, if you look at this country, um, you know, the real Grandy valley, um, is just statistically, one of the, the poor regions, you know, there's been a lot.
[00:35:21] Um, you know, uh, D population, you know, flight, whatnot, but this town of San Benito, um, was responsible for giving birth to the movement of music. Um, which is an incredible genre. Basically what happened is the, uh, the Mexican laborers down in south Texas, um, heard the music that was brought to the area by the checks, the Germans, they heard the Pocus, they heard the accordions, um, and they, they took that accordion music.
[00:35:51] They took those polkas and they added their own lyrics and Spanish to them. They threw in guitar and they created this whole entire genre [00:36:00] of music. And, um, w w the story there is, is, is I knew that I wanted to. To do a piece, you know, on the border, you hear about the border a lot, um, in the news right now, but what is always lost in the noise surrounding all of that is the culture and the people who actually exist there.
[00:36:19] Um, and I thought that kahuna really kind of provided a terrific, uh, opportunity just to explore kind of the beautiful th the, the beauty that exists there. And I heard that there was this museum in this town called the Texas kahuna music hall of fame. So I sent a message on Facebook. Um, I I'd heard that, uh, it was founded and owned by a man by the name of Ray Abila.
[00:36:42] And a little while later, I got a call from his son, turned out, uh, that Mr. Abila, his father had died about seven months prior, but that if I wanted to go, um, visit the museum, that they would be honored to have me and I showed up. This museum, the small town in [00:37:00] Texas and the entire family was there because they wanted for me to know about their father.
[00:37:07] Um, they wanted me to know about Cancun . Um, they found a, the president of a record label who specializes in this music so that he could be there with us too. And they had such pride and joy in, in sharing. And an honor that someone took the time to visit a place like, like San Benito. Um, it is an experience I will always treasure and never forget.
[00:37:34] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That is so lovely. And I'm so glad that you got to tell that to, to tell that story, to show, to show, to sort of open the window, if you will, into San Benito and into this music. And I'm wondering something, this is a little off topic, but do you know who Alan Lomax was? I
[00:37:54] Evan Stern: have heard the name. Um, please refresh my memory.
[00:37:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sure, sure. So he was an [00:38:00] ethnomusicologist and what he did with his whole career for 50 years, he traveled the world and he recorded music. And when video came along, video of mew, indigenous music, wherever he was, he tried to find the music from that place. And, uh, and there, when I worked at the national geographic site in many moons ago, he came over and he was like, Hey, I would love to put together a library that didn't happen with the geographic, but his daughter, after his death put up a website and there is a website that you can go and, uh, sort of see the music from anywhere.
[00:38:35] You can hear the music from anywhere, you just type it in. And if it's there, if they got a recording of it, you'll be able to hear it. And so I'm wondering for posterity, what is your. W w w this library, if you will, that you're creating this travel log that you're creating in my mind, Alan Lomax, his version of it is providing us access to music from all [00:39:00] over the world that is, that could be lost.
[00:39:03] And I'm wondering, what do you, what is your feeling about that with the stories that you're telling you mentioned earlier that these that's, their survival is not certain the different traditions and the, and even the, the, you know, the honky-tonks the places themselves, what are you going for here? What is your long-term vision for vanishing postcard?
[00:39:24] Evan Stern: Well, so yes, so I'm collecting oral history and I, I think it is really important that we do have a record of it. Um, I think in some ways, uh, this is something perhaps of a bit of a call to arms. Um, you know, I, I want to say it's about shining a light on, you know, what is, what is still, what is still there.
[00:39:47] Um, but we can still go to, but as I said, you know, some of this stuff might not be around for too much longer, so it's, it's really kind of about drawing attention to it so that we can preserve it. Um, you know, I look at my [00:40:00] hometown of Austin. Texas as a whole. Um, it is, it is changing at rapid pace. I don't think that change is something to be feared.
[00:40:09] Um, in, in many ways I think it is something that, um, should be embraced, but we have to change and grow responsibly. Um, we have to ask, you know, why, w w what is it that people like about Austin? What is it about Texas that draws people there? Why do people keep coming? Um, and I do think that it is it's culture, and I believe that we, as a society need to do a lot more to protect the culture that surrounds us.
[00:40:36] I mean, th th most of the places that I spotlight are small businesses and. You know, whenever a small business closes that, you know, has a great history behind it or fondness to it, you'll have all of these people come out of the woodwork saying, oh my goodness, this is horrible. This is the worst thing ever.
[00:40:54] But my question always is, well, when was the last time you, you actually went there? Um, [00:41:00] I mean, it's really exhausting. It's a lot of hard work, um, to, to keep these places going. And if people get tired or they aren't making ends meet you, you can't blame them. Um, and this is an issue that you see happening in New York.
[00:41:14] It's an issue you see happening in Texas, California, London, name it it's happening. Um, and so I do think that. You know, th th hopefully this series kind of makes people think, uh, a bit more about that. Um, and long-term, it is my hope, uh, that I can expand the map beyond Texas because, um, the, the issues that I feel are explored in this series are truly universal.
[00:41:44] In fact, if you look at the analytics, um, most people tuning in and listening right now are actually listening from outside of Texas. Um, and so I think it's important to, uh, you know, I want to expand the map [00:42:00] and, um, you know, if I can do a part to draw attention to, you know, the, the, the beauty of a meal, American culture that surrounds us, um, you know, that's kind of what my goal is.
[00:42:16] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And it's a great goal. And I'm so glad that you said that you eventually, cause that was going to be, my next question was, do you want to take it outside of Texas? And I mean, Texas covering Texas can be a lifetime's work cause it's such a big place with such a varied set of, of uh, peoples and cultures.
[00:42:32] And yet I love the notion of, of that, what you said, finding those small businesses, finding those people, who aren't, the ones trumpeting themselves and giving them a chance to, to shine. I think that's amazing and wonderful that you're doing that. And I love the notion. And if you could. What would you go next?
[00:42:53] Evan Stern: Uh, well, I, I have a dream. I would love to drive route 66 from Oklahoma to [00:43:00] California, and I would love to collect stories and oral histories along the way. Um, I think that route 66, so much of why, um, it kind of occupies this mythic status, um, is because of the timing. Um, you know, there were other highways that were built before or after there were larger ones.
[00:43:19] Um, but I think, you know, if you journey route 60, I've never done it, but I, I have to think that if you drive route 66, I mean, you were following in the steps of the, the Okies who migrated to California because of the dust bowl and the great depression. Um, it was an incredible artery during world war II.
[00:43:38] So there's that history as well. Um, then it kind of. You know, in encapsulates that golden age of American travel and in the late forties and fifties, then it was decommissioned. And, you know, there was a lot of abandonment that happened and kind of, what does that say? Um, you know, about the American dream, you [00:44:00] know, it was it, uh, and, and so there's a lot that I would like to explore and taking that journey, um, beyond that, I would also love to take a trip to Mississippi sometime, uh, something that fascinates me about Mississippi.
[00:44:11] I think, um, the, the writer really Maura said that Mississippi is America's Ireland. Um, if you look at it, it has produced the most incredible Canon of just literary lions, um, William Fox. Um, Richard Wright, Eudora, Welty. Um, they were all Mississippians and Mississippi continues to produce an incredible writers there.
[00:44:36] There's a wonderful storytelling tradition attached to Mississippi. Um, and I would love to see, uh, what, what I could get there.
[00:44:47] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love it. I think that's amazing. First of all, I'd driven along 66 and you will, you will love it. Love it, love it. And, uh, you know, Mississippi and the south in general [00:45:00] has a rich storytelling culture. I have every time I spend time in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, that, that part of the country there, if you, if you set a spell, you will, you will get amazing stories.
[00:45:16] And often you don't, it doesn't take a lot of prompting. So I'm I'm you said earlier that, that it's just about sort of talking to people the way you would talk to them. The, I guess the question is, have you had people who just say Nope, Nope. Not doing it. And if so, what have you done if that particular story is important to you or do you just move on to the next person?
[00:45:38] Oh,
[00:45:38] Evan Stern: absolutely. Well, there, there is. Um, you know, so the. The third episode that you'll hear in the series. Um, I did at a honky-tonk called arche blue, silver dollar, um, in this town called Bandera, Texas. Um, it's a fantastic place. Um, again, it was pre pandemic. Um, so, you know, I showed up there unannounced and I really wanted to [00:46:00] talk to, uh, archi blue.
[00:46:01] He's he's the owner, he's in his eighties. He performs there every Saturday night. Um, I thought, you know, th this guy is a legend. I've got to talk to him, got to talk to him. He wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. Wouldn't give me an inch refuse to let me record him. Um, and you know, he was cordial when I talked to him, we're talking, you know, you're one word answers, you try everything.
[00:46:24] Um, but what happened is, is, uh, every, I, I talked to everyone. That I could find around him and everybody had a story about archi that they wanted to share and, um, what resulted in. And so his refusal became part of the story itself. Um, but in talking to everyone who knew and loved him and had stories to share about him, you really got a terrific, uh, portrait that wouldn't have existed.
[00:46:56] Otherwise that that I think is entirely charming. [00:47:00] Um, and when that happened, I had to remind myself that one of my very, very favorite, um, essays of all time, uh, was written by, uh, gates Elise. Um, in 1965, he was given an assignment to interview Frank Sinatra for Esquire magazine and Frank Sinatra completely refused to talk to him.
[00:47:23] Um, but what he ended up doing was he interviewed all the hangers on everyone in his, his entourage. And, uh, to this day, people say that it is the most realistic. Portrait of Frank Sinatra that has ever been captured. Um, and so I would recommend to anyone who finds themselves in that position to think of that story and, you know, maybe read that story, uh, because that's something that I draw tremendous inspiration from.[00:48:00]
[00:48:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: It's so interesting. I have a friend who, uh, who's a PR expert and she talks about the difference between marketing and PR Gloria, Charles, her name. And she says marketing is when you come to people and you say, Hey, I'm great. But PR is when someone else goes, you know what? That person they're great. And as long as it's someone you trust, it weighs more than if the person is trumping again themselves, you know?
[00:48:31] And so there's something to what you said that kind of reminded me of that, that notion of the other people around Frank Sinatra or, or, or archi, uh, being the ones who tell their tale. And I, I guess I'm wondering within that, I've asked you about the wildest, what is the story that has touched you the most?
[00:48:55] The one that made you go, ah, wow. I had no [00:49:00] idea.
[00:49:02] Evan Stern: Well, for me, the, the episode that, that, that has the most personal heart for me, um, is, is the second one. What happened is I went to this dance hall. Um, I, I, I knew that I wanted to do a piece on dance halls. Um, in, in Texas, you know, everyone always talks, always writes about Greenhall or Lukin Bach.
[00:49:27] You know, those are the big dance halls, but there are many, many, many more others out there. And there was one I discovered that I'd never been to called SEF Shaq hall. It's in this teeny community, um, called Seton, Texas. It's about eight miles outside of a town called temple. It's a community of about 40 people.
[00:49:48] And, um, and there's this old dance hall there called SEF shuck hall. That is pretty much trapped in time. Um, by most accounts, it is now the oldest, [00:50:00] um, family run dance hall in Texas. You know, it's a family that, that owns it. This family has, has always owned and run it. And, um, I went there and I wanted to talk to its owner, Alice, who is 89 years old.
[00:50:19] Um, and, uh, you know, I had actually called an advanced to ask if I could come and talk to her. She said, sure, well, I got there. And I said, well, I'm here to talk to Alice. And it turned out, you know, that morning she took a fall and they had to take her to the emergency room. Um, and you know, and it kind of, you know, you could feel the way.
[00:50:41] In that situation, you know, what, what happens to this place? Um, you know, without, without Alice here. And I ended up talking to her daughter-in-law and son, um, and you know, they're, they're committed to keeping it going. Um, but you could feel like the, you [00:51:00] know, the, you know, I, I feel like that situation kind of infused the episode with, with weight.
[00:51:06] Um, but beyond that, um, you know, I listened to, to what I had initially, and there was something missing. Um, I said to myself, I said, you know, I'm doing a lot of talking here. I'd like to find someone else who could do some, some talking for. Um, and there there's an association called the Texas dance hall preservation.
[00:51:29] And I found the woman who was working at the time as their executive director, because I wanted to talk to her just to kind of get some more historic perspective on dance halls. You know, I was talking about the history. I think it's better if someone else can talk about the history, other than me, that actually knows more.
[00:51:45] And, you know, I talked earlier about how, you know, you have those moments where someone just kind of, you know, tells a story or share something that just beautifully illuminates everything. And, um, [00:52:00] I was talking to her and I asked, I said, you know, there are so many causes out there in this world that are, that are worth devoting attention to.
[00:52:09] I said, you know, why are dance halls important to you? And she said it was, it became an incredibly emotional interview that I was not expecting at all. But she said that, you know, those places have a lot of heart and that her fear was that we're getting away from that as a society. And, you know, she, you know, ends up crying.
[00:52:34] She's saying, you know, these places, you know, people go there, you know, it's not just about the fun. It's, it's not just about the dancing. Um, it's about, you know, it's about cleaning the roof. It's about cleaning the toilet. And she says, I see so many people working so hard to keep these places going and, you know, and of course it is perfectly illustrated what the shoe lock family, you know, we're, we're [00:53:00] doing, you know, the, the, the daughter-in-law the son, you know, they, they work, you know, five days, they do not take days off.
[00:53:07] You know, they have regular jobs that they keep Monday through Friday, and then they're there on the weekends. And, um, I think that it beautifully exemplified their story. In addition to just about every other person that I talked to in the series as a whole,
[00:53:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: that is beautiful. And I'm so grateful that you shared that, that moment of, of talking to her and also the story of. Dance halls in general or, or anything that we do because we love it. Um, you know, we, we do it because whatever it is, whatever that thing is that you do, because you love it. And particularly these places where one of the things that I think Evan, that, that you've highlighted, that I think is so [00:54:00] incredible is that you've taken, you've highlighted places that aren't going out for fame.
[00:54:08] You know, these are people and places that are just living, doing their thing and living their lives day in and day out, year in and year out. And they're not going to be a celebrity. They're not trying to be world famous for example. And yet you've shown the light on them. And I think that's so it's powerful because of that, because they're living their lives and doing something hopefully that they love, like with the dance hall story.
[00:54:35] And they're not looking for accolades and yet you've given them a platform. And I'm so grateful that you've
[00:54:43] Evan Stern: done that. Well, I will say it's not even that. I think a lot of them as well, feel a responsibility to the people who go to these places, you know, like a dive bar, isn't just a place to grab a beer.
[00:54:58] You know, a dive [00:55:00] bar represents an entire community. Um, you know, a dive bar, a dance hall. These are all places where people go to, to belong. That's that's, that's what, all of the, that's another through line that I think these places have in common, you know, whether it's a barbecue joint, a dive bar, a dance hall, people go to these places for community and for places to belong.
[00:55:25] And I think that it's, it's, it's important to highlight that aspect as well.
[00:55:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Absolutely. I agree. Yeah. Interestingly because people come and go, like you said, there are a lot of people who, who come to Texas, uh, especially Austin has, has ballooned. Uh, I guess the question that's come that's upper. Most of my mind right now is culturally the culture of places changes.
[00:55:54] Right? And so, as the culture evolves, I [00:56:00] know that you're a lot of what vanishing postcards is about is, is capturing that before it goes away before it's no longer in its current form. Are there things that you've done that have been, uh, sort of in the process of changing or something is over and something new's coming to take its place?
[00:56:21] And if so, what have those things been?
[00:56:25] Evan Stern: Um, you mean my work or places I've been.
[00:56:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I guess I'm not asking the question very well. I'm just wondering about culturally, your vanishing postcards project is focused on sort of the smaller, uh, heart, very heartfelt places in people in Texas now and perhaps, and perhaps hopefully someday elsewhere.
[00:56:51] And as, as the culture changes in those places or for those dance halls, have you captured in any of the [00:57:00] episodes that you've done? That change taking place? Absolutely.
[00:57:04] Evan Stern: Um, the, the very first place that I went to, um, was a bar called, uh, the, the dry Creek cafe. Um, it's been there for about 70 years. Um, it, when it first opened in the early 1950s, it really basically sat on the edge of the country.
[00:57:22] Now, not only is it no longer country, um, it's now pretty much surrounded by mansion's. Um, it's now basically it's this ramshackle dilapidated dive that is surrounded by some of the priciest real estate in all of Texas. Um, but this bar has survived. Um, and I think it's one of the few places that you can go where you're reminded that, you know, before the tech, uh, millionaires invaded the Hills, the Hills were actually home to Cedar choppers, which was this, um, Appalachian subculture.
[00:57:55] Um, and, uh, the, the very first person that I interviewed. [00:58:00] In, um, in Texas for the series was angel their bartender. Um, this was a tough day game, you know, raspy voice, you know, just changed smoker, you know, just, just fabulous, you know, just tough as nails, woman. Um, she was incredibly, um, reticent to, uh, to speak with me again, getting her to talk on the record and letting along to record her.
[00:58:28] Um, just took every ounce of charm that I could possibly muster. But when she found out that I was okay with cussing, um, she opened right up. She let the F bombs fly. Um, we had a terrific time, um, and, uh, very sadly I think about, um, four months or so. Um, after I, I interviewed her, she died. Um, what was remarkable about angel is, um, as I said, the place opened in, um, I think it was 1950.
[00:58:59] [00:59:00] Three. Um, she was only the third bartender to ever work there. Wow. Um, and so I'm incredibly grateful that I, you know, captured her, her voice and I have that record of her. Um, but you know, you have to ask, you know, when, when someone like that goes, you know, um, you know, what does that, how does that change a place?
[00:59:22] You know, what does that do? I was actually just back in Austin last week. Um, and I went there to visit the place to, you know, just see if there was some additional footage I could get that would help bring the season two to a close, um, just to kind of see how that change had affected things. Um, and you know, so there, there are analogies, there, there are now like a few bartenders there who are like trading duties and whatnot.
[00:59:48] Um, but I think what's kind of beautiful is that those who have filled in, you know, were all regulars, who, who knew and loved and cared about the bar. Um, [01:00:00] and, uh, you know, they dedicated a section of the bar to angel where they have, you know, her pictures and some things that she loved. Um, and, um, it was, it was just kind of interesting and reassuring to see, um, how, you know, yes, you know, when a beloved, you know, figured, uh, leaves, it's hard and it's challenging.
[01:00:21] Um, but if the community is there. It will come. It will find a way to continue. At least for now. I'm grateful to see that, to know that the dry Creek is still there and that those who love it, um, are doing their part to, uh, to keep it going.
[01:00:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I'm so glad to hear that story. That is wonderful. Evan. I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me about this.
[01:00:46] It's, it's such an important topic because it isn't one that, that we tend to focus on. So I'm really grateful that you took the time to tell me about vanishing postcards and to tell me about the culture and the people that you are, [01:01:00] uh, Capturing, if you will, for, for all of us, for all of us to enjoy. And I, and if you're listening to this, you need to go check out vanishing postcards.
[01:01:08] I've listened to a few episodes and it's fabulous and amazing. Evan. If you wouldn't mind, I would love it. If you would give whatever social media. Uh, that you have so that if people want to find you, that they can.
[01:01:22] Evan Stern: Absolutely. So the, um, you know, if you search, uh, vanishing postcards on Instagram, uh, you'll find it there.
[01:01:29] Um, it also has a, a, a, a Facebook page, just search vanishing postcards. It should turn up. Um, you can also find me on Instagram as well. I'm at Evan stern NYC. Um, and, um, you know, I thank you so much and oh, and, but most important, most crucially, um, you know, please go find, listen to subscribe to vanishing postcards.
[01:01:54] Um, since this is a podcast, uh, you know, whatever, you're listening to this on, I'm quite [01:02:00] confident that you'll find us there. We're on apple, we're on Spotify, we're on all the, uh, you know, whatever platform is out there. We're more than likely on, and I'd be most honored if you'd consider giving us a little.
[01:02:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Awesome. And I will actually put all of that in the show notes so that if you're listening to this and you've seen the show notes, you'll be seeing the links to all of it. I just, people learn differently. So I like giving both the audio and the sort of, you can read it visual for it. Uh, Evan, again, I'm really grateful that you took the time to chat with me.
[01:02:32] Me and I, I have one last question, if that's okay. Of course. It's a question I ask everybody who comes on the show and it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some profound results. Yeah. And the question is this, if you could sky write anything for the whole world to see what would you.
[01:02:53] Evan Stern: What would I say for the whole world to see?
[01:02:58] Oh my [01:03:00] goodness. Yeah. So I feel like I need to say something profound, like Buddha or something like that now, or Yoda. My goodness.
[01:03:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I've had people say, eat your veggies. So it does not have to be,
[01:03:16] Evan Stern: I mean, it is a cliche. Um, I've, I've heard it many times. Um, but I, I do believe that there is something to be said for the fact that if I were to write this in the sky, I would say luck is the result of preparation meeting opportunity.
[01:03:34] I absolutely believe that to be true. Um, I always do my best to be, uh, you know, prepared and, uh, educate myself and, you know, and, and be ready so that, um, you know, when opportunity comes, you know, luck can, can happen.
[01:03:53] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. I think that's a great way to end this episode, Evan stern, you are fabulous, and I'm [01:04:00] so glad that you were here.
[01:04:01] Thank you. This is the innovative mindset podcast. You have been listening to my wonderful conversation with Evan stern, who is the host of the vanishing postcards podcast, which of course, you know, you need to check out if you're liking what you're hearing, do me a favor, leave a review, let me know comment.
[01:04:20] However you'd like to get in touch. I would appreciate it until next time. This is again, Izolda Trakhtenberg reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.
[01:04:36] thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[01:04:53] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by [01:05:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.
 
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Brain.FM CEO Dan Clark On The App That Helps You Be Your Best Self On Demand

Brain.fm CEO Dan Clark
In a fun coincidence, this episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*
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In his first session, he bought an account and was so excited after a week of use, he needed to be part of the company. He called 12 times. 
He finally got a job and worked the first month for free. Fast forward, he’s now the CEO, and 2019's Forbes 30 under 30. 
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Episode Transcript
Dan Clark
[00:00:00] Dan Clark: [00:00:00] The real mission is to empower everyone around the world to be their best self on demand, full stop.
[00:00:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:10] Hello, welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.
[00:00:31] I love it and have been using it to write, create, and do some of my deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word, and now let's get to.
[00:00:54] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I'm super [00:01:00] thrilled. You're here and I am incredibly excited about this week's guest. Check this out before he became CEO of brain FM, Dan Clark worked as a website and app developer. He switched careers from building an advertising agency and came across brain FM in his first session.
[00:01:17] He bought an account and was so super excited. After a week of use, he needed to be part of the company. He called them 12 times and he finally got a job with them and worked the first month for free that's how much he believed in it. Fast forward. He's now the CEO and 20 nineteens Forbes, 30 under 30.
[00:01:36] Dan has always excited about how technology can change the world. So that makes them the ideal guests for the innovative mindset podcast. Dan I'm so glad that you're here.
[00:01:43] Dan Clark: [00:01:43] Welcome my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:01:46] Oh, it's absolutely my pleasure. So first of all, it's not often you hear, I will work for you for free.
[00:01:54] What, what made you do that? What made you go, you know, I love this so much that I'm going to, I'm [00:02:00] going to just do whatever it takes to, to be part of this company.
[00:02:03] Dan Clark: [00:02:03] Yeah. So I think it was, um, it was both the product and then also my personal story. So, um, I'm a secretary black belt and I taught martial arts to kids, uh, for a really long time.
[00:02:13] And then as I did that, I started making martial arts websites, apps, and kind of, um, really start optimizing for, uh, financial success. And I hit this point when I was, um, the director of this advertising agency, where. I felt empty. Um, and I felt like I wasn't doing what I really loved, which is helping people.
[00:02:35] And I wanted to get back into that. And at the same time, I was super sensitive to my own focus and energy. Um, and I used to actually work from 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM in the morning to find what we call now, like our flow state. And I ended up leaving the advertising agency, looking for things that I could get excited about and [00:03:00] came across brain FM when it just launched.
[00:03:02] And I remember using it for the first time and being blown away because I was able to get into that magic state of effortless, where it feels like you can fly, um, again, flow state. And we can dive into that later, but I was so enthralled from the first activity and I was like, this can change the world.
[00:03:19] I need to be part of this country. And it was that level of commitment where I was like, I just want to be, this is going to change the world. I want to be part of this rocket ship. Um, call them up a bunch. Um, they didn't really, it was just starting company. And I said, Hey, you know, I'm not in here for the money.
[00:03:34] I'm here for, you know, the ride let's do this. And, um, I guess four, four years later, three years later I became CEO. So it's been a, it's been a wild ride and it's that drive of what can this do for the world and for people around the world, um, that has really driven me to, uh, you know, focus on building the company into what it.
[00:03:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:03:57] Oh, I love that. I love the [00:04:00] notion of wanting to change the world for the better, especially through innovation and technology. And I do want to dive into that, but I need to ask a side little question. What martial art are you a second Dornin? Um,
[00:04:13] Dan Clark: [00:04:13] mixed martial arts with a concentration of Krav Maga, muy Thai Kempo, uh, jujitsu, um, few different things in that nature.
[00:04:22] Wow.
[00:04:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:04:23] Oh, that's it sounds exciting. I'm a, I'm a showdown in Ikea, so I'm like, oh cool. I'm like, oh yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. I've been studying martial arts in one form or other since I was a teenager. And I actually find that the martial arts in some ways can help you get into that flow state as well.
[00:04:39] That that sort of change where almost anything is possible. And I would love if you would talk a little bit, you've mentioned flow state. I would love it. If you'd talk a little bit about what brain FM, how does, how does brain FM. Help you do that. If you, if what you want to do is get into that state where everything feels [00:05:00] effortless, where you're calm and you're focused.
[00:05:02] That's wonderful. And I know lots of people, trumpet meditation and all of that brain FM, and I've been using it myself recently. So I'm very excited about it, but how does it do, what does it do to you to help you get into that state?
[00:05:17] Dan Clark: [00:05:17] Yeah, of course. So at brain FM, we make functional music designed to help you focus, relax, and sleep better.
[00:05:23] Um, and the way we do that is, um, your brain has these different neural patterns, right? And they're actually very understood in science. So if you put an EEG on someone's head while they're in focus or relaxing or sleeping, there's a pattern that the brain has. Um, and if you did an MRI, which is measuring the blood flow to different areas of your brain, your blood flow has similar patterns.
[00:05:49] And what we do is we've been able to discover how to add, uh, different rhythmic pulses or different patterns to music. So when you're listening to that [00:06:00] music, your brain starts mirroring those patterns and can quicker switch into better focus, better relax, or better sleep. And then what's really cool about the technology is because you're continually losing this.
[00:06:15] Um, it's not something you have to train and practice that it's something that's, uh, a physiological effect. So we're actually redistributing blood flow in your brain, helping you get to that pattern that we know is science does help, um, and then stay there. And, um, the cool part about it is it's disguised in music.
[00:06:34] Um, it's a patented thing that we've come up with it's it hasn't been done before in this application. Um, and we have tons and tons of science to show the effectiveness of it.
[00:06:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:06:45] Wow. Okay. So let's dig into this a little bit. The science says that like, yay. So the science says that your brain is that the blood flow to the brain, the different neural pathways [00:07:00] are, the things are firing.
[00:07:02] The synapses are firing differently. It sounds like. And what does that mean with respect to the music itself? Is the music, is it, is it sub oral or is it something that's the actual rhythm of the pieces themselves? That does that
[00:07:17] Dan Clark: [00:07:17] great question. So, um, first off is when we make music, what we have done is actually build the music from ground up.
[00:07:26] So we don't. We don't like change music. That's already created. We say, Hey, let's first figure out from the beginning, how can we make music that affects people's mental states, right. And a lot of music today, that's responsible. Like you can search on YouTube or Spotify. You can find a bunch of people that claim that they can do this, but they usually take music that's already been created and either change it or relabel it as such.
[00:07:54] And there's been other attempts with science, like binaural beats or isochronic tones that have, uh, had [00:08:00] really limited success, um, to show that this works. Um, and what we've been able to discover is when we start from the ground up, we can do all of the things that you hear in music that, you know, feel, you know, focusing.
[00:08:15] And we can talk about some of those things like sailings reduction and new lyrics. Um, but then we also add these patterns. Um, that act on our brain on a, um, uh, uh, physical level, um, which allow us to align the functional networks of your brain to communicate more effectively. Um, so let me, there's a lot there, so let me break it down.
[00:08:38] So one of the things, yeah, one of the things that we know, and it probably makes sense is that when you listen to music with lyrics in it, it can be distracting. And the reason why is because you either know the lyrics, so you start thinking about what the next lyrics are. It's distracting from the work you're doing, or you're trying to [00:09:00] understand the lyrics.
[00:09:01] And there's no such thing in the brain as multitasking. You're basically switching back and forth between tasks. So even if you're kind of, um, not paying attention to the lyrics or trying to, you know, actively ignore something, it's actually taking energy to do that. So one of the first rules we have is we don't have lyrics in our music.
[00:09:24] There's other rules that we follow, um, which is like salients reduction. Um, and that's the difference between, um, sounds so not having like loud, you know, clashes and other kinds of things, music that stealer attention. And these are based on things that we've been able to observe in the brain that really actually track all the way back to like evolution.
[00:09:45] Um, because we're the descendants of the people that when we are walking in the woods and we heard a twig break, we knew, oh, there's probably a tiger here. That's coming to get me, I'm going to run away. Right. And so what happens is we're making music to [00:10:00] really control the environment and just from an acoustic property alone.
[00:10:04] And one of the reasons why we all love music is because it's really cool that you can put music on and change the. The state that you're in, in a way of, um, you know, associations as a way of like what genres you're listening to. Um, and it acts on the brain, you know, as music does. And then what we've done is, is we do all of those roles and then we apply science on top of it, um, or with it.
[00:10:33] And what we're doing is, is inside of those genres or the different kinds of music that we're playing that are following all those rules were, um, adding these, um, modulations, which are these rapid, uh, frequencies of turning on and off different bands of music and what that's actually doing when you listen to it, um, is it's, it's, um, lining up different functional networks of your brain through a process called entrainment [00:11:00] and what you can kind of think of it as your brain being like a Christmas tree where it's blinking all different times and all different regions.
[00:11:08] Are starting to listen to these patterns that are, um, basically harnessing all these regions and organizing them, um, the process of entrainment mirrors, um, your environment and your, those Christmas tree lights actually all start blinking at the same time, which enables us to hope speed up the transition between, you know, being in a resting state, for example, and then being in a deep focus state.
[00:11:38] Um, so what we're doing here is we're using human composers where you, which are really great at creativity and finding really great things that people, um, want to listen to. And then we're combining it with AI and with scientific research to create a product that basically is a switch, uh, that gets you into a mental [00:12:00] state and the effect, uh, it takes about five minutes to work and then it's sustained as long as you're listening to.
[00:12:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:12:09] I keep saying the word wow. After you're done talking because there's so it's, there's so much. Wow. Okay. So there are, so there's something you just said that made me go. Hmm. Is there such a thing as listening too long too? Cause I noticed in, in the app it's like 15 minutes, half an hour or two hours or something like that.
[00:12:32] If you want to do a focusing session, is that a, so that your brain does not get fatigued or was there another reason for making it so that there are these limits?
[00:12:42] Dan Clark: [00:12:42] That's a really great question. So actually in our new apps that we're developing right now, we're moving all of those. Um, that was really designed to give people an option of how to get started, but it really comes down to you.
[00:12:55] So it depends on. Really knowing [00:13:00] yourself and knowing the activity, excuse me, working on. Um, and then, uh, figuring out like, you know, what's, what's best suited for you. So for example, I use, uh, like I'll do a deep work focus, and I usually do about 90 minutes on that. And that's specifically designed for work that, you know, I just have to like crush through like my emails or whatever.
[00:13:21] Um, but when I'm doing, um, you know, like business planning or trying to be creative, like creative, I use our creativity section, which is in the, some of the new apps we're developing and are probably out by the time everyone's listening to this. Um, and that's specifically designed for again that like, you know, being more creative and being more loose and I find best for me in that state is 30 minutes.
[00:13:46] Um, but I know with other people, they have other experiences because everyone's brain is different and we're helping your brain. You know, get to the state that, uh, we, you know, we see works. [00:14:00] Um, and there's some other kinds of personalization that we can dive into as well. But then it's up to you to really learn more about yourself.
[00:14:10] Um, almost like training wheels, riding a bike, and then saying, okay, this is how long I really enjoy riding a bike before it's not fun anymore. Um, and, and that's kind of the, the best thing about the technology. You can use it, you know, some people use it for eight hours a day, um, but it really comes down to what's best for you what feels right?
[00:14:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:14:29] Yeah. I think it's empowering to sort of be the driver of your own bus there. And that's what I've noticed in using the focusing thing is that two hours is just a little too long for me, and then I drop it down, but I am amazed at how quickly, and this is something, I guess, that's that flow state that you were talking about?
[00:14:47] What has happened in the last couple of weeks since I've been using the app? Is that. I get to this place where I don't realize that I've been productive. I look back and go, oh, look at all these [00:15:00] things I've finished. But I was so deep into them that the passage of time sort of went away. And so I was wondering when someone is using the app, that flow state seems to be an ideal.
[00:15:15] What happens if they can't get there? Do you have feedback from users that are like, no, this, I don't know how to make this work for me. And what do you do when someone says that when someone goes, you know, is there, is there, for example, uh, perhaps a neurological issue that someone might have that might preclude them from being able to use the app because of the way the app interacts with
[00:15:37] Dan Clark: [00:15:37] the brain.
[00:15:38] Very good question. Um, let's unpack that. So there's, there's definitely neurological diverse people. Um, everyone has different neurological diversity, um, and that could be spectrum of, you know, ADHD, for example, um, it's a myth, it's a common misconception that you have ADHD or you don't, um, it's in reality is [00:16:00] everyone has different levels of ADHD and all the other kinds of neurological stuff.
[00:16:05] Um, so there could be things that have proclivities across, um, that, that, you know, um, maybe people have challenges with. However, uh, we actually find that more neurological diverse people have better effects with brain FM, um, believe it or not. So we were working with, um, autism, ADHD, um, different kinds of anxiety.
[00:16:29] And we do a lot of research on the side there. Um, some of the things that we do for personalization and, and some of maybe. The faster, more direct answer to your question is that, um, our science, um, is really our power level of the music. We call it their neural effect level. And some people are very sensitive to it and some people are less sensitive.
[00:16:54] And what, um, if people are having challenges, finding, you know, their flow state, I would [00:17:00] actually say, we have to find, you know, turn that knob up. So it's more intense or turn it down. And that's, um, some of the reasons that you hear me mentioning this new app that we're creating, because what we wanted, we found that this works for all individuals, because it's a process of entrainment that we naturally do.
[00:17:19] So actually you and I talking you're in training to my voice and my, you know, I'm doing the same to you. And that's an effect of being able to infer what I'm going to say next, um, and different kinds of environmental factors and, uh, Basically the, the, the answer to your question is, uh, you know, we found that this does work for many, many people because it works with our brain.
[00:17:44] It's not like hacking it. It's, it's something that your brain naturally already does. And what we have to just find is fine tuning for Bob versus Samantha, you know, what the specific power level that they need. And then what kind of, um, acoustic qualities of the music [00:18:00] is best suited for them like the brightness or the complexity, um, and then really packaged it together.
[00:18:05] Um, and that's something that we are constantly working on to make sure that every time you go in it's the best experience. Um, and then if people don't, if people have challenges, they can reach out to customer support and we can definitely help them find more specific crafted music for them.
[00:18:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:18:22] I love that.
[00:18:22] And I love that notion of the personalization of it that lets you again, stay in the driver's seat of what works for you. What doesn't work for you. The, the music that I've listened to for the focusing has been fantastic for me because I like it. And I liked that. You said that it's not jarring. I noticed that, that there weren't any big, you know, drum crescendos or anything like that.
[00:18:43] It was, it was much more of a, of a gentle rolling Hills instead of climbing mountains, which I think is great. But you said something that I think is really interesting about the ADF. My husband has add, I talk about it on this podcast all the time, because he's very artistic and creative and innovative, but [00:19:00] has trouble focusing.
[00:19:01] And part of the thing that I'm, I'm, I'm totally gonna get this for him so that he can use it to. And part of the thing that I'm thinking about is when someone has a, neurodivergence a component to the way they think that is different. What, and you said customer service, it would be great, you know, so they can reach out, but what can they do on the fly?
[00:19:26] What can they, is there a choice they can make within the music? Or is that, or is that coming in the next version of the app to go? No, I'm not, I'm not focusing the way I want to be, or I want to be doing something differently than I am. Can I choose within the app to make the experience better for myself in the moment, or is that something that's going to be coming down the pike?
[00:19:46] Dan Clark: [00:19:46] So you can actually right now, so, um, in our, in our iOS and Android version of the app, right now, you can actually go into the power level settings and select one, two or three. And the new version of the app, we give you even more hand control of, [00:20:00] of showing you the personalization engine we're using, where you're, you're falling in that category.
[00:20:05] Um, and then able to like play with it a little bit. Um, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's really the power of, of our music and w and our functional music on how we're approaching this, um, and how we differentiate between Spotify. So we really want to make sure that, you know, um, as a user where you fall in that category and give you the ability to see and feel the difference.
[00:20:26] Um, and it's really interesting because you may need some power level. You know, for focus and you need a complete, like, let's say you need, um, so people with, um, higher ADHD usually perform better with higher power levels. So let's say it's a level three, right? And in sleep, it's not level three, it's a level one, you know?
[00:20:49] Um, and they don't necessarily correlate. Um, but again, that's what we're trying to do here is, is create music that you want to listen to. Um, you said a good point of it's not jarring. It's [00:21:00] actually, we try really hard to make music that you enjoy listening to, but you don't love, um, because we don't want you to like be distracted by, wow, I've really loved this song.
[00:21:10] And we have, you know, we have great music. We have award-winning composers that do this. Um, but then, you know, again, giving you also the power to control the power, um, and then learn more about yourself and, you know, optimize, um, as you choose to.
[00:21:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:21:29] That's so interesting because I really liked the songs, the city too, so that's good. Uh, I tend to like instrumental music a lot. So it was very, you know, you said, well, we want you to like it, but not love it. And I think that's really, that's really fascinating because then it's easier to keep it sort of in the background while you focus on the other things that you're trying to actually do.
[00:21:51] And if we can, if we can change, focus just a little bit, see what I did there. Uh, if we can, I didn't actually, I've English, isn't [00:22:00] my first language. And so I cannot pun, but when I do, it's always, I always want to do a little, a little happy dance because I actually punched in and did it. Let's talk about stress.
[00:22:10] Sure. So one of the things that you can do with the app is do a relaxation. So there's a relaxation arm of this and that is it. Is it sort of hijacking the amygdala or, or are you going by the time it gets to the hypothalamus? Like where, where does the app interact with the brain when it comes to that stress fight flight or freeze response?
[00:22:34] How does
[00:22:35] Dan Clark: [00:22:35] that yeah, great question. And I think there may be some answers here that my neuroscientist is better suited than I am, but I'll try my best. Um, so we're actually using the same exact technology that we're using for flow states and focus and even relax or sorry, sleep and what we're doing with relaxes, we have a different neural pattern and that pattern is, um, again, redistributing blood flow in your brain [00:23:00] that then because of that has different functions.
[00:23:03] So. We're not necessarily going to the medulla or the, you know, all the different parts of the brain and specifically, um, uh, focusing now I'm doing puns, but, um, we're not specifically like hijacking, you're changing something of that. What we're doing is we're actually changing the whole brain. Um, and that effect is, is one.
[00:23:25] I think it makes more sense because your brain is so, um, um, you know, we know more about Pluto that we know about our brain in some aspects, like memory creation, things like that. There's, there's still a lot of things that we're just discovering how the brain works. Um, and for, for relax specifically, um, we, we are just creating a different normal pattern.
[00:23:47] We do different genres of music that people associate with like relaxing environments. Um, so the difference between like almost like spa music, um, and then, you know, different chill and instrumental music that's slower. [00:24:00] So we're doing an on both sides. And actually it's really funny because one of the things that we are doing in our medical portion of the company is we're actually investigating relaxation, um, for different kinds of medical treatments.
[00:24:16] And, um, we did this one study where there's a song called wait-lists by mark CARNA union. And it's whole it's it's, it's, there's been BBC articles and stuff. And this was created a few years ago. It's the most relaxing sound in the world. And it was built with neuroscientists and, um, you know, different composers.
[00:24:36] And it was so successful that they actually compared it to a. Um, my, it was some kind of, um, a drug, right. I, I can't remember the exact name. Um, I wouldn't be able to pronounce it probably. Um, but, um, they were, it was, it was that, and it was, it was hailed as the most sound relaxing sound of the world because it's just as effective as this one sedative.
[00:25:00] [00:25:00] And what we did is we said, okay, well, let's see if we can beat it. And in this specific example, we're actually currently doing pilot tests in surgery centers to help people relax before surgery and then wake up after surgery. Well rested, especially because it's, it's very hard not to be stressed before surgery, you know?
[00:25:21] Um, and what's really interesting is we took all the things that waitlist did. We applied all of the technology that we have. And we beat it by like 30%, um, using different kinds of questionnaires of, um, uh, the poems questionnaire. That's, that's the standard in psychology. Um, and from that, now we're going in testing this with pilot data.
[00:25:44] And what's really interesting is it's the same exact technology that we have in our consumer application. Um, and it allows someone to really, you know, press a button. Switch their state. And what's really cool about [00:26:00] this. You know, I, I like, I love meditation. I, I'm a very big proponent of it. Um, but what's really interesting about this is that meditation, you really have to practice.
[00:26:10] Um, and even if you practice and you think you got it, then you practice another 10 times and you're like, no, now I got it. And it just keeps going where this is again, that, that physiological effect. So it will happen in your first five minutes, even if you're mentally not ready to, you know, um, and that's really cool, especially with our busy lives that we have, where if you just say, Hey, I just need five minutes to relax.
[00:26:34] You can actually shift your whole demeanor by switching into this. And that five minutes is actually doing something rather than, you know, hoping it's doing something for example. Um, and I think there's, there's a huge difference in that. Um, because it's, it's almost inactive. Does that make
[00:26:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:26:54] sense? It does.
[00:26:56] It absolutely does make sense as I'm a long time meditator, but [00:27:00] I'm a long time frustrated meditator because of that, because there are times when I try to drop down into meditation and the entire time I'm going, I'd really like to be meditating right now. I can't believe I can't shut my brain off, you know?
[00:27:12] And so, so I'm constantly picturing calm oceans for a long time trying to get to that state. So I liked the notion very much of, of being able to get into that state. And I really liked the notion of people in hospitals having access to something that will help them de-stress beforehand. And I did, I did some research and you have a national science foundation grant to study this technology.
[00:27:39] What, how, first of all, how did you get it? And second of all, what exactly is the NSF funding for you to start.
[00:27:47] Dan Clark: [00:27:47] Yeah. Great question. So this was, um, in a, uh, dual, um, effort with Northeastern university with one of our, um, uh, what's the best word. [00:28:00] Um, I guess, you know, we, we have a lot of different partnerships with different academic institutions and, um, this is with one, um, specifically to study ADHD in the brain and as a alternative treatments to medication, um, to, uh, help people with ADHD.
[00:28:17] And what we did specifically for this was, um, and this is where like a lot of our evidence comes from at least for our focus product, um, where we took regular music. Um, we took brain FM. We took brain FM with, and without our technology applied to it. Um, and then we put like a like pink noise. And we basically studied different individuals that were trying to do different video games.
[00:28:45] Um, and these are start tasks which are, um, very standard in, um, measuring someone's performance. And as they did that, we watched them on EEG. We watched them, um, on Fri and we were able to determine that. [00:29:00] When someone is listening to, um, you know, brain FM and someone that has ADHD, um, that different, um, neural pattern or that power level that we can adjust.
[00:29:13] Um, if we turn that up higher, that person has better effects from, uh, the music, then maybe more normalized individuals. Um, and from that, we're actually developing, um, a better product where we learn more about people in that personalized manner. And we can start selecting music based on where someone is on that bell curve of, um, neurodivergence.
[00:29:40] Um, and, and yeah, I mean, it's, it's very exciting because it's something that supports that we actually can help all individuals. And, um, now we can better serve rather than guessing. Um, we have a very great starting point on, um, helping someone get right into that point.
[00:30:01] [00:30:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:30:01] That's fascinating. And I, you know, as I said, my husband rich has add, so, so that notion of, uh, being able to focus when you want to is something that I think is incredible. And there's a book that a lot of people with add, read that's called you mean I'm not lazy, crazy or stupid. I don't know if you've ever heard of this book, but it was written a while ago.
[00:30:25] And it was written to people essentially to people who have add and ADHD to sort of let them know you're not lazy. Crazy. You're stupid. You, you have neurodivergence essentially. So I'm wondering in, in the work that you're doing, how. What kind of feedback. I mean, I could go look at the reviews of the app, but what kind of feedback are you getting from people who have these, these divergences and is it, is it helping the consumer as opposed to like, I understand the NSF study and I think that's amazing, but how, what kind of [00:31:00] feedback are you getting from people who have some of these challenges who then are able to perhaps focus some people for the first
[00:31:07] Dan Clark: [00:31:07] time?
[00:31:08] Yeah. So I'm happy to answer that, but before I do, I want to take a note and say that, um, I think everyone has super powers. Um, and people that for a long time in neurodiversity have said that they don't when, when they relook at it and they can really start harnessing it. They, you know, like you, you were mentioning your husband is very skilled as in creativity.
[00:31:32] Um, and that's such a super power. So I first just want to take a second and say that. You know, there's so many great gifts that people have. And, um, with ADHD, it's really hard to find people's, but it's really, and that's one of the mission statements that we have is really to help everyone be plus one, w we think we're a plus one product, so we can help everyone go to the next level, be their best self on demand.
[00:31:59] Um, [00:32:00] so you just, you just struck a chord with me. I want to make sure I brought that up.
[00:32:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:32:03] Um, and that's great because that was going to be my very next question.
[00:32:07] Dan Clark: [00:32:07] So yeah, I mean, I, you know, for me specifically, like I'm, I'm, I've always, you know, I was always working for them. Um, I'm not an early riser, right? I am now I wake up at seven o'clock, but for a long time I could not function.
[00:32:23] And I, you know, I dropped out of high school because of it. Um, and if you ever talked to my teachers, they would say this kid's not going to go anywhere. Um, and it wasn't until I started realizing, you know, tools through martial arts and tools through brain FM on, you know, how I can use these tools to be better.
[00:32:42] And, you know, after I saw the, to answer your question, but, um, you know, I think. That's what brain FM is. Ultimately, it's a tool, you know, we can't build a house for you, but we're the hammer that lets you build a house more effectively than, you know, without a tool. You know? So I think that's, that's [00:33:00] important.
[00:33:00] Um, as far as feedback we get from customers, um, we have, you know, over 2 million downloads and many users from around the world. Um, we actually have an internal channel called love letters and raving fans. And, um, we have, you know, from people saying this is the best thing ever. Um, too, some people have lowered their medication, you know, with ADHD, you have some people that, um, are, you know, like literally crying while they write emails and, um, really hard, you know, testimonials of how we've had a major impact in their life.
[00:33:32] Um, and you know, without getting into too many details and sharing things that I can't, um, you know, this is the reason why. Ultimately we build brain FM is, is to really harness that, um, you know, we have, we, we don't like right now, we've been really focusing on the science and really focusing on the company, uh, for, you know, the next 10 years and really laying the foundation where right now we don't do [00:34:00] a lot of marketing.
[00:34:01] Um, and even with that being said, we still have tens of thousands of people that come to us, um, every week to try us out because it's all referrals right now. Um, and that really, I guess, goes, goes to beyond, you know, me just coming on here and saying how great it is. Um, it's really like our customers that are shouting about, Hey, there's this secret tool that I've found that lets me become a superhuman.
[00:34:27] Um, and again, that's why we do it.
[00:34:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:34:32] I love it. I love it. I keep pausing after you're done speaking because I'm taking it all in. And the thing is that I'm, you know, speaking of that, that notion of super power being a superhero. I, I agree with you. I think we all have our own unique. My focus is almost always creativity and innovation, but I think we all have our own unique genius.
[00:34:54] Your, you know, unique, creative genius, innovative genius, whatever it is, we all have something [00:35:00] that sets us apart. And I'm wondering, what are the uses do you think of looking forward instead of, and, and I forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn, but this notion of using brain FM for. Accessing the parts of your creative genius, for example, that you want to access being very purposeful with those kinds of actions while using the app.
[00:35:25] What are your thoughts about doing that? About someone who goes, I want to hack my creative center and I want to really open it up. Can the app do that? Will the app be able to do that? Do you want the app to be able to do that? What are your thoughts on that?
[00:35:39] Dan Clark: [00:35:39] Ooh, lots of really great questions. Um, so I think, you know, the first, so there's some things that I can say, and there's some things that I can't say because we're still, you know, evaluating and looking at things.
[00:35:51] Um, I think the first thing that's important is, and you know, we've talked about this with our science, but we're science first. Um, and that means that [00:36:00] everything that we do we want to make sure is actually true. Um, and we have evidence to show that. And I think that there's a lot of other companies that say they can do X, Y, and Z.
[00:36:11] Um, but when we look at the science and we look at evidence, um, it's not true or it's, it's, you know, oh yeah. We asked, you know, all of our users and we asked how, how good they feel. And they said 10 out of 10. So that means, um, and we, we really like, before I answer this, the reason why see that is because at the end of the day, we want to make a product that actually does better everyone, because it's way easier to focus on just building an amazing product.
[00:36:42] And I think that, um, with that being said, um, there are scientific limitations. Um, so the whole company, you know, we're designed around basically we have neuroscientists on the, on the team. We have a, um, uh, MIT and, um, Harvard graduate that works [00:37:00] for us. Auditory neuroscientists. He's a genius. And the way we create this company is that we fund science directly instead of, um, in other companies where breakthrough happens in science, and then five years later, a product comes out.
[00:37:14] We say, Hey, how can we make it so that we're investing in science? And then that makes the product better because the product's so good. So many people start using us. We have more money to invest in science and the cycle continues. And when I look at the future of where we're at, I think that it's really first is the ability to deliver optimal results for everyone.
[00:37:40] So looking at, um, someone coming in, learning about them and saying, Hey, this is my button. So I can get my creativity when I need to. And I can find that flow state, and I'm really excited. And this is something that I add to my habits. That's really important. Um, if you just use this, like once a month, It, [00:38:00] it will work, but it's way better when you use this consecutively and you train your brain to be creative.
[00:38:06] Um, and we can talk about some of the habits that I would suggest with this, um, program. Um, but then the next thing is, is then for someone to learn more about themselves to your part, right? So now someone looks at wearables and they look at, oh, well for me to get in a really great flow state, you know, I can use brain FM, but I also understand that if I'm drinking coffee, it takes me out of that.
[00:38:30] And I rather drink tea or whatever, you know, and as we start building, I think more connected world with more data, um, I see brain FM being a role or a pillar in that data to be able to help someone understand more about what makes them. Act the way they do, you know, and then be able to help, you know, learn and, and, and do it better, you know?
[00:38:57] So there's, there's definitely a lot of stuff there. [00:39:00] Um, and then I think it goes beyond, which is some of the medical things that we're currently investigating, um, you know, pre and post off I mentioned, but we're also searching Alzheimer's autism, ADHD, um, and a lot of other kinds of methods to help people and excuse me, um, when we combine all of those together, um, you know, it's, it's really exciting.
[00:39:23] Um, you know, one of the reasons why I just love and, and put so much effort into building this company is because it doesn't matter. Anything as long as you're human. So it doesn't matter what language you speak. Doesn't matter how much money you make. Doesn't matter, you know, your sex or your gender, or, you know, all these things.
[00:39:42] It matters that we're all human and our brains are incredibly similar and incredibly unique at the same time. And I think, um, you know, really that's, that's what, um, we're going to see as we move forward is what can science to, what can our human brains do? And then [00:40:00] how can we, you know, always. Live up to the potential.
[00:40:03] We want to be, um, so lots of stuff there, obviously speaking directly from the heart. So I apologize for the, the long tear, but, um, but yeah, I mean, there's, it's definitely a mission driven company for sure.
[00:40:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:40:15] Absolutely. And, and do not apologize ever for speaking from the heart. That, that to me is one of the pillars of, of what makes us a human is, is being able to express ourselves directly from that, that place of where we really believe it.
[00:40:30] And you do. And I think that's amazing. Uh, there, you said a couple of things that, uh, well, you said many things that now I want to spend the next six hours talking to you about, but there, there are some things here that you said that I think are really interesting and you said you want to help everybody.
[00:40:46] And this is one of those ridiculous questions that I'm sure you get, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Um, it is it's about accessibility. So this, you sort of have to be a hearing person. To be able to use [00:41:00] the app. Right. I imagine is there, is there something that can, that can work for someone who is deaf and is there something that can work for someone who is tone deaf, which is different than being than being deaf or hearing impaired?
[00:41:15] Dan Clark: [00:41:15] Yeah, great questions. So first off is, uh, tone deaf actually doesn't, um, block someone from using brain FM because we're not doing tones, we're doing a modulation, so it's the on and offs of things. Um, so actually a lot of people with hearing impairments can still use brain FM. Um, and if you're listening to this and you may have questions about that, reach out to our support team and we'll be able to give you a specific answer.
[00:41:41] Um, but what's really interesting is let's pretend someone can't hear anything at all. Um, we can still help people. And one of the other ways to do this is using light. Um, so what we're, what we're using right now is, is, is sound because it's a neuromodulator right. And that's really those patterns that we're doing.
[00:42:00] [00:42:00] So we can do those patterns, right. And sound in touch. Um, I don't think we could do them in smell. That would be weird, but you know, we have those three mediums that we can play with. Right. And when we, um, do touch through skin, it's called Viber acoustics. Um, your skin can take in, um, modulations. It's just less sensitive way, dramatically, less sensitive than our eyes in our ears.
[00:42:26] Ears are better because we can kind of like hide things, um, in, in hearing. That's why we've chosen audio, but you can also do things in light. And some of the things that we, you know, play with is, you know, doing both of those at the same time, but there's definitely, there's definitely things. For sure that that lot of, uh, that we were on the cusp of investigating and figuring out, um, and, uh, really the, the secret is, again, those modulations that allow us to control and create those patterns for [00:43:00] people.
[00:43:00] Um, you know, the one reason why we don't do light is because I think it's like one out of 18,000 people have, um, epilepsy, epilepsy. Yeah. And, and this is something that can't, that people don't have with sound. So, uh, bringing in femme is actually the safest medium for a neuromodulator at the current time.
[00:43:19] And, um, that's why, like everything is purpose built and designed, um, for safety as well as, you know, making sure that we have, you know, the right effects. Um, so, you know, there may be ways around it around, you know, epilepsy and things of that nature, but that's really the future to, to find out. Um, and yeah, I'm curious.
[00:43:39] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:39] Wow. Fantastic. I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay. Uh, again, I, as I said, I can keep you for the next six hours. And so I have just a few more questions if it's okay with you.
[00:43:52] Dan Clark: [00:43:52] Yeah, of course. This is fun. I mean, I'm very, very, I can talk about this all day.
[00:43:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:57] Oh, yay. Good. So [00:44:00] a lot of the things that you said, you know, especially looking at visual and everything, I come back to the amygdala.
[00:44:06] I come back to that notion of the spot in the brain, the process, you know, takes in what you see and takes and what you hear and decides if there's danger. And this is a strange question, but if you're a long time brain FM user, is it really just like a T turn it on, turn it off, or is it going to develop.
[00:44:29] Um, like I know that once you're in, once the groove has been developed at the neural pathway, it's, it's more likely that that, that particular neural pathway will go again. So is there ever a time that you envision that people will not need brain FM because they've developed those groups for themselves?
[00:44:46] Or is it always going to be a there's the sympathetic nervous system? There's the parasympathetic nervous system and depending on which one needs to be fired up right now, that's what the amygdala and the hypothalamus are going to do. Do you have thoughts about that? And if so, what
[00:44:58] Dan Clark: [00:44:58] are they? Yeah, [00:45:00] so we have some first notions of it.
[00:45:02] Um, but we haven't done science on long-term effects of brain FM, um, for, you know, years and years and years. Um, but we have done, uh, some, I guess, leading, um, research and that basically shows that, uh, it's kind of like running, right? So if you become really good at running that there's a certain level of speed that you can achieve.
[00:45:29] Um, that your gains are, I guess, less, um, however, if you get really, really good at running, you still have to run. Right. Um, and you can kind of think of this as almost like a wind on your back, right? So you're running and what we're doing is we're, we're helping you run faster and feel what running faster is like, um, and, and helping, you know, push you along into that.
[00:45:55] And, you know, on one side you could say, well, you know, I was [00:46:00] running six miles an hour and now we can run eight miles an hour. Um, and I know what that feels like. So I'm not going to use this, this wind or this, this effect that's helping me, you know, go two miles faster. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna get to that myself.
[00:46:15] And I think the argument would be, if you can always run faster, you know, with that way, Always run with the wind on your back. You know what I mean? Um, that might be very abstract. Um, what we're finding is that yes, um, as someone uses the product, those neural pathways develop and someone can get into higher creativity or flow state faster.
[00:46:40] Um, and I think that that is really the trigger that allows someone to get there. But I don't, I don't necessarily see this ever being someone. Now doesn't need that, where they can just close their eyes and get into it. Um, but you know, we'll, we'll have to see. Um, and, and ultimately I think that the [00:47:00] goal of what we're really looking for is not necessarily being the training wheels, but being the, uh, vehicle to help someone.
[00:47:09] Um, and, uh, that's, that's really the goal that we have. I think we would, our whole approach would be different if we were a training wheels, you know, program, um, where we want to be, okay, Hey, you don't have to run anymore. You just get in this car and we'll get you there in five minutes. And that's really the goal of, of brain FM, um, at least right now.
[00:47:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:47:31] And that was actually going to be my next, literally, what is the goal? What is your goal for the company? So, um, I do, I, you, you mentioned. That, uh, earlier about habits. I'd love to get your thoughts on the, on, on what you think in sort of an, I know you said you drive the, the person who's using the app drives the bus and they're the ones who choose.
[00:47:51] But if you have habits, if you have thoughts on what is sort of an optimal way of getting into it as a new user, I would love to know that too. But, but if somebody [00:48:00] goes, okay, I'm gonna download the app, I'm gonna see what it's like, what is the best thing? And I, and I, I just gave up caffeine. So I'm very excited to, to hear you say, well, maybe caffeine, isn't great for it.
[00:48:10] So, so tell me, what are some of the habits that someone should have, uh, in order, or might have in order to make best use of the app and habits serve their needs
[00:48:19] Dan Clark: [00:48:19] best? Yeah, of course. So I'm going to say, you know, I'll say some of my habits, but I really encourage people to develop healthy habits that they test themselves.
[00:48:27] Um, that's really important because again, everyone. So, um, the first thing is just, you know, habits. And if you haven't read, um, atomic habits is just a fantastic book that shares how habits really shape our lives. And it's just so important to have those. And again, brain FM is, is not going, it's not a magician, but it is a tool, right?
[00:48:47] So you have to make sure that you are using the tool effectively. And I think with creativity, uh, for your audience, it's very challenging to be creative on demand. Um, and the best way [00:49:00] to develop that is actually to force yourself to try, right? So building in habits of work blocks, and if you look at my calendar, what I actually have is these work sprints where I say, Hey, for the 60 minutes, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I'm going to be creative.
[00:49:22] And you know, what's challenging is when we don't feel like being creative, right. It's by training our brain that, Hey, this is a time where I do creative work and it it's creating these neural pathways. Um, and you know, you are developing how to be creative, um, on a schedule that you want to be rather than when your brain happens to be, you know, so I think that's just extremely important.
[00:49:47] And for me, what I do is I actually have deep works, uh, sessions in the morning. Um, I do, uh, I changed this all the time. So if you hear me on other podcasts, it's because I'm always experimenting myself. [00:50:00] But normally what I do is, uh, I'll put, excuse me, deep work on, in the morning for about 30 minutes or so.
[00:50:06] And in there I take out a journal and I write down the top things that I have to do today. How do I feel? And I do a complete brain dump so I can get all of the feelings and emotions and all that stuff aside. And then I say, what do I have. From there. I basically finished a session with the top things that I have to do.
[00:50:28] I take a break, um, I'll sometimes put on relax music or go for a walk or sometimes at the same time do both. And then I come back and do another working session. And what's really important is, um, you know, developing not only the habits to, you know, sit down and work or could you create a moment, um, you know, creative habits, but also having consistency.
[00:50:52] So for me, I, I drink iced coffee every day. Um, but you can drink ice tea or whatever you need to. Um, but it's really important, you know, have [00:51:00] a clean desk to have the same, because what happens is it builds all of the distractions that could happen that in a new environment, it's all erased. And then all of your energy, you know, using brain FM is then focused into, okay, this is the task that I have in front.
[00:51:19] And what's cool about, you know, again, the tool is not only do we have all of this science and all of these different kinds of things, we also have different tricks that allow you to get engaged. So we actually use 3d spatial technology. Um, so a lot of our music sounds like it's actually coming slightly in front of you, which is almost like drawing your attention to the work that you're doing.
[00:51:40] Um, I forgot to mention that before, but you know, through a combination of habits and then, you know, getting like going to the gym, right. That's, that's really what you're doing. Um, it allows you to constantly perform and then once you're constantly performing, it really helps you break through to the next.
[00:52:01] [00:52:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:52:01] Sure. At some point you hit a plateau, I guess. And then, then from there, that's the springboard up to the next and the next and the next. And I, I love that. Uh, let me, let me ask you, this is you've, you've mentioned, you've mentioned bits and pieces, but I'd love to know what your, what your Dan, what your mission is for, for your company.
[00:52:23] What is the mission that you have long-term to change the
[00:52:28] Dan Clark: [00:52:28] world? Yeah, so the, the real mission is to empower everyone around the world to be their best self on demand, full stop, you know, um, I think a lot of people in life, um, you know, through different kinds of mechanisms, they never, they, they get obstructed from their goals and they, they get obstructed by the goals by having maybe, you know, previous failures or having writer's block or, you know, um, motivation block, or maybe it's just being.
[00:52:59] Too into their [00:53:00] goals and being too stressed out where they need a perspective change or they can't sleep. You know? And, and what I, what I believe truly is that if we enable people to be their best self and whatever that means for that individual, whether it means curing, um, or not necessarily caring, but helping them treat, you know, um, their sleep challenges or helping them achieve flow state when they want to, or helping them chill out because they work really, really hard and they just need to take 10 minute breaks.
[00:53:30] Um, if we can do that, then collectively as a human race, we enable everyone to help each other more effectively. And if I can be the, um, I don't know, the, the conduit to allow people to really unlock their true potential. Um, that's my mission in life and also mission at brain-a-thon.
[00:53:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:53:57] I'm taking all of this in. That was, that was lovely. [00:54:00] Uh, and I love, I love the notion of collective change based on everybody feeling better, being better and doing better. My, my, my word for this, for this year. And hopefully for the next 40, 60, 80 years is compassion. And it sounds to me like compassion for yourself.
[00:54:24] If you start with yourself, then it, then things, you know, things sort of flow from there. And with brain FM, How, what is the thought for you there? As far as you know, you're doing relaxation, you're doing sleep and you're doing focus. What about in gendering feelings of joy or, or feelings of compassion or anything like that?
[00:54:49] Like can, can the app, is that something that you would ever be interested in in helping people with someone who might have challenges of depression or anxiety to, [00:55:00] to address some of those challenges with this
[00:55:04] Dan Clark: [00:55:04] app? Yeah, it's, it's a great, great question. Um, and we, we are definitely working on it. I can tell you that.
[00:55:11] Um, it's, it's a little bit, it's, it's complicated. Um, I, I guess it's the simplest way. Um, and that reason is because joy is derived from things. Um, and if we gave someone artificial joy, That doesn't necessarily fix where joy comes from, you know, and I think that as we look at it and we peel this back, um, joy also means different things for different people and how they experience joy.
[00:55:41] So it's a very convoluted challenge. And one of the reasons why we, we specifically don't say, we can make you happy, but we can help you focus, which will make you happy. Um, the, our angle on that is, is again, if we can help people be better or more efficient in [00:56:00] the activities they're doing, then they can move one step closer to treating, um, certain core problems, I guess, or core challenges.
[00:56:13] Um, and we, we definitely have people that have, have, you know, touted us as the cure, as their personal care for, you know, depression or, um, really, really challenging times in their life. Um, we have many, many people that write to us about that. Um, but I, I don't, because again, we're science first. I don't feel comfortable ever saying that we are the cure for that, but we can help people achieve it and we'll help them look for it together kind of thing.
[00:56:40] Um, unless something changes in our research.
[00:56:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:56:45] Interesting. And that just made me come back to the question of awareness. Like self-awareness when, when I'm using the app, one of the things that happens is that there is that there is again, that flow state where Ty and I love that [00:57:00] state when time passed and you don't realize time has passed, you know, because you've been working so into what you're doing, but then there's a self-awareness aspect of it.
[00:57:08] And that's the slowing down. And the difference there for me is sort of the sympathetic versus the parasympathetic nervous system. So in the relaxation part, what happens if, if you, if you have any data on this, what happens to people's sense of self when they're in that relaxed state? Not so much the focus state, but the relaxed one?
[00:57:29] Dan Clark: [00:57:29] Uh, yeah. Great question. Um, it's something that w you know, we, we do have to do more research in, um, the, the challenging stuff with gathering data for. Some of those states is that it's very personal and introspective and there's not a lot of site like, like purely scientific, like, uh, analysis to like, you know, figure that out.
[00:57:55] Um, it's more, it's more of a personal thing, but you [00:58:00] know, with, with flow state, with relaxation, with meditation, I think, you know, self-awareness is really what happens from it because it's a perspective change. And I I'm I'm want to be certain and say that this is me talking about myself personally, but I think when I breached these higher states or these more developed states that I'm currently, you know, operating in, it allows me to really be, uh, you know, turned into more of an observer as, you know, you're working or as you're relaxing and.
[00:58:31] Break the cycle of doing, and now the cycle of, you know, understanding a little bit, um, which enables us to, you know, work on ourselves. Um, I, this actually reminds me of the habits thing, and I think what's interesting is that, you know, humans are really the only animals that can look at themselves and change anything about themselves that they want to, including their habits and the way they think and all of that.
[00:58:58] And when we go [00:59:00] to the deepest level, um, it's us first wanting to change us saying, I am going to change, and this is a plan that I'm going to do. I'm not going to say that to myself anymore. I'm going to do this instead. And then, you know, work and correct it and build, and you know, that's, what's inspiring and why I want, you know, personally, and then why the company is set up to help people be their best self.
[00:59:24] Because if we can do that, we can allow people to work. All the other things that, um, you know, people can really, you know, dive into and, and, um, you know, brain FM is just definitely not the one-stop solution. It's one of many tools, but, um, you know, it definitely enables people to, um, unlock different levels that they didn't maybe know they had and then start questioning and, and, you know, bettering and, and, um, exploring.
[00:59:57] And I think that's, um, you [01:00:00] know, an exploration and mindfulness or whatever it may be. Um, and it's a personal journey journey.
[01:00:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:00:07] It does sound like it's an individual journey. And it's one that I think I come back to the notion of small steps are still steps. Right? So if you, if you do it 100%, you build the habit of it.
[01:00:20] That, yeah. It just makes, it makes all the difference in the world because you always, like you said, you come, you eventually get to that plateau where you're like, okay, now I'm ready for the next level, the next step. And, and it sounds like brain FM. And it certainly, I mean, for me, you know, I'm a convert. I love, I love the, the state of being able to focus pretty deeply on the things that I choose to focus on instead of being distracted away from things.
[01:00:49] So I think that, because we're hyper-stimulated and I wonder about that. I know again, I told you only a few more questions, but there is something here to me that [01:01:00] we are living in a really hyper-stimulated. World where there's stuff coming at us all the time, whether it's texts or social media or the, you know, the streetlights or whatever, when, when you're in that state of hyperstimulation and you put in the headphones or the earbuds or whatever, and you put on brain FM, is there ever a war between the hyperstimulation of all the stuff going on around you versus what brain FM helps you do?
[01:01:30] And if so, how does that work?
[01:01:33] Dan Clark: [01:01:33] Yeah, so, you know, really, I wouldn't necessarily say it a war, but we are. The mirror of the environment that we're in. Right? So, you know, when we're in, we're surrounded by technology, we're surrounded by distractions. And because of that, our brain is hyperactive. It's, it's always bouncing around different things.
[01:01:54] What do you put in brain FM what's happening is you're changing your environment first for sound. [01:02:00] So you're kind of insulating yourself and escaping a little bit of some of the things. And especially with sound canceling headphones, it's like the perfect fit. Um, and then because of that, then you start mirroring a different environment.
[01:02:13] And this new environment is the music and the different kinds of science in the music, which enables us to truly have a different response to a different ed environment. Um, And then that has the effect. Um, you know, as we talked about that's triggers these other actions.
[01:02:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:02:32] Yeah. Yeah. I liked the entrainment that you mentioned earlier,
[01:02:35] Dan Clark: [01:02:35] 100%.
[01:02:36] You got it.
[01:02:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:02:36] Right, right, right, right. Got it. Okay. Yeah, that was, that was, I was like, Hmm. There was one other little thing that I wanted to make sure about. And I'm so glad that you addressed it. Well, Dan. Thrilled to pieces that you took the time to be here. And I would love it. If you wouldn't mind give speaking of hyperstimulation, if you could give where someone who's [01:03:00] going, I need brain FM, where they can find you, if you have social media channels or anything like that, that, that someone who wants to know more could go to, I would love it.
[01:03:08] If you'd say what those are, there'll be in the show notes, but people learn differently as we both know. So I'd love it. If you could say it so people can hear it too. Yeah.
[01:03:15] Dan Clark: [01:03:15] Yeah, of course. So you can go onto the app stores and download bringing data FM, or you can go to brain.fm. Um, so it's, it's just, you know, brain.fm and that'll bring you to our website, which, um, we actually have free trials for everyone to do no credit card required, um, which allows people to fully feel the music with no pressure or stress or anything like that.
[01:03:38] Um, and really see, is this something that, um, they can integrate it into their life? Um, so, you know, if you're interested, feel free to give it a shot. Um, it is something that, um, you know, I personally, uh, love and still use every single day and so to a many other million people. So I'm very excited to be here and, uh, [01:04:00] really enjoyed the conversation.
[01:04:01] Um, and I'll definitely, uh, have to come back to that.
[01:04:05] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:04:05] Oh, that's great. I appreciate it. And do you have time for one more question?
[01:04:09] Dan Clark: [01:04:09] Sure. One more. Let's
[01:04:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:04:10] do it. Okay. It's a simple question. I ask everyone who's on the show. It's really simple, but it, I find that it yields some profound answers. And here's the question.
[01:04:20] If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?
[01:04:26] Dan Clark: [01:04:26] Oh, uh, that's not a simple question. Um, I let's see if I had an airplane to write anything in the sky. What would I say? Um, I don't know. Uh I'm I, you probably can't write paragraphs in the sky, huh? Um, I know, I, I don't know.
[01:04:45] I would just, it's all it, like, it all comes down to really passion, I think. Um, and, and, and belief. And I think that I always encourage people to find, uh, the thing that [01:05:00] makes them, you know, really alive and feels like they're doing things, um, and really, um, you know, allows them to be that. And, you know, there may be some people hearing this that are in a job that maybe they love, or they don't love, but it allows them to do something that they love.
[01:05:17] And I think that's, you know, that's really important and, and allowing people to be better again, um, finding passion and, and wanting to be better, um, allows people to do that. Um, I think maybe I would refine that word and say curious, um, you know, curiosity, you know, curious to be better curious to fully explore life.
[01:05:39] Um, I think that's something that, um, you know, I I'm sure everyone listening to this podcast already shares, but I'd love it. Um, you know, if the world was more curious as a whole.
[01:05:50] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:05:50] All right. I think be more curious is probably a really good thing to say up in the sky. Uh, Dan, Dan, once again, thank you so much.
[01:05:57] I appreciate you being here. This [01:06:00] is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. This has been an incredible conversation. I'm so thrilled that Dan Clark joined me. If you want to know more about brain FM, you know what to do, go find it, go download it, go use it. I personally love it until next time I remind you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.
[01:06:24] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[01:06:41] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can [01:07:00] always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.
 

Never Lose Another Idea Again

How To Never Lose Another Idea Again
Keep track of your ideas all in one easy-to-access place.
This episode is brought to you by Brain.fm. I love and use brain.fm every day! It combines music and neuroscience to help me focus, meditate, and even sleep! Because you listen to this show, you can get a free trial.*
URL: https://brain.fm/innovativemindset
If you love it as much as I do, you can get 20% off with this exclusive coupon code: innovativemindset
 
If you're like me and you have too many ideas bubbling up to keep track of all of them in your head, you need the Idea Doc. I designed it for myself to keep my ideas, things I want to ponder, and quick to-dos on track and in one easy-to-access place.
Why might you want to have this one easy place to keep track of all your ideas?
Here are just a few reasons.
It can clarify your stance on things
They can give you more fodder for what you’re already working on
They can give you perspective and clarity
They can help you innovate, make changes, gain focus, or even not do a thing if that’s what you decide.
But that’s the thing. Because you have your ideas in one place, you do get to decide what you’re going to do with them.
Grab the Idea Doc here. It's free, and I hope it helps you create and innovate your way into your juiciest and most wonderful work and life.
Connect with me
https://Instagram.com/IzoldaT
https://www.linkedin.com/in/izoldat/
https://twitter.com/IzoldaT
 
8-16-21 Idea Doc
[00:00:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I don't want to forget ideas and I get stressed that I might forget them. So to alleviate the stress, I need a place to jot them down.
[00:00:12] Hi, and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. You get my conversations with peak-performing thought leaders, creatives, and entrepreneurs. We explore how you can innovate through creativity, compassion, and collaboration. I believe that innovation combined with compassion and creative thinking can save the world and I aim to bring you ways.
[00:00:35] You can do it too. If you're enjoying the show, I'd be super grateful. If you can support it by buying me a cup of coffee, you can buy me a cup of@buymeacoffee.com slash Izolda tea. And now let's get on with the show.
[00:00:56] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. [00:01:00] I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg and I'm super happy that you're here, that you've taken the time to spend a little part of your day with me. I have just celebrated. 400 episodes. This is a few more than 400 right now, and I'm still incredibly excited to be talking about innovation and creativity and how we can use both to change the world.
[00:01:21] One of the things that's been happening is, and one of the things that I find most gratifying, I'll be honest is when someone takes the time to leave a review. And I decided that I want to thank publicly the people who leave a show review. And this week it's from Joseph E. Bennett. Here's what Joseph had to say.
[00:01:44] This is so damned inspiring. I just love this podcast. There's so much wisdom in what you is older and your guests bring forth and share so openly with us. Thank you much Lee, for all of it. And what an incredible accomplishment that you've just released. The 400th. [00:02:00] You're such a gift to all your listeners.
[00:02:02] Joseph, thank you so much for that wonderful review. I really appreciate it. And I am so grateful to you that you listen. To the guests who come on the show and talk and give their wisdom. So generously, I'm very happy, very thrilled, and very excited that I get to keep doing this. And I'm going to keep doing it.
[00:02:20] As long as podcasts are around. Speaking of keeping the podcast around this episode is brought to you by brain FM. Or rather than brain.fm. If you go to the website, this is an app that I have been talking about a lot. Actually. I love it. I use it every day. This app combines music and neuroscience, two of my little bits of catnip there to help me focus, meditate.
[00:02:47] And even sleep. And what's really cool is that they just recently got a, an NSF national science foundation grant to study how brain FM can be used to help patients in hospitals and other [00:03:00] places where this neuroscience that really works with your brain's own super power. To 10 X, your ability to, as I said, meditate or focus, do creative things, sleep, whatever it is you're trying to do, brain FM will likely be able to help you.
[00:03:16] I think anyway, if you listen to the show and you do, because you're here, you can get a free trial by going to. Brain.fm/innovative mindset, all one word. And if you love it as much as I do, and you decide you want to get it for yourself, you can get a 20% off with this exclusive coupon code. And that is innovative mindset.
[00:03:39] Again, all one word. And if you want to know more about brain FM straight from the source. The company's CEO, Dan Clark is next week's guest on the show. In fact, that's how I found out about brain FM is they asked if, uh, if Dan could come on the show and talk about it. And I was so fascinated by what he was saying and, and, and what [00:04:00] the app does that I have become an evangelist for it.
[00:04:02] I love, love, love it. And if you want to learn more about it next week, Dan Clark will be on the show. Alrighty. So now let's talk about this. Week's thoughts about ideas. If you're anything like I am, your mind is always going and your brain is always firing and tons of thoughts are coming at you every second of every day, I think.
[00:04:26] And you've heard me say this on the show before we're hyper-stimulated we've got so much stuff coming at us. Right. All the time, everything from advertisements to your child who needs you to, uh, feed or change them, right. Everything a to Z it's coming at you all the time. And that can be a cool, because.
[00:04:50] There are lots of opportunities for inspiration, for example, right? If there are lots of stimuli, then, then you can get inspired by some of them, but it can also be frustrating because the second something [00:05:00] inspires you, something else comes in to take its place. And last for me, anyway, it can be daunting because the second you've got a new thought or idea, it can fly right out as fast as it came in.
[00:05:11] Because again, something else came in it's just gone and that sort of begs the question. Why keep all these ideas, right? What's in it for you to keep track of all those ideas from the hyperstimulation, from your own thoughts, from journaling, whatever it is that you're doing, you get these ideas. What's in it for you to keep them.
[00:05:34] So here are my thoughts about that. And I have a list. One, it can clarify your stance on things like what your perspective is, what your point of view is too. It can give you more fodder for what you're already working on. Right? You can get new perspectives, new ways of doing things, new solution. Things like that three, it can give you clarity.
[00:05:56] You can get perspective on things that are, that have been in a sort of a gray [00:06:00] area. And what you need is clarity. You need to clear, clear things up in your own mind, those new ideas that you might get, those things that you might ponder. They're they're helpful for that for they can help you innovate, make changes, gain, focus, and even not do a thing.
[00:06:16] If that's what you decide, right. By getting more information by letting your mind wander and by letting those ideas bubble up. But that's the thing, because you have your ideas in one place, you do get to decide. What you're going to do with them. And that brings me to not forgetting ideas, right? I don't want to forget ideas and I get stressed that I might forget them.
[00:06:39] So to alleviate the stress, I need a place to jot them down and I don't want it to be on paper, frankly, because I Lu I'm a notorious paper loser. I will lose a small piece of paper faster than you can blink. I don't want to do that, but I also don't need an app specifically for this, because there are plenty of those.
[00:06:58] Right. But they, but they all [00:07:00] seem to have these huge processes. Right. For, for, you know, in order to do that, that you have to tap here and you have to click there and you have to do the hokey pokey. So I wanted something for fast ideas and I don't need a big lengthy step-by-step I just need a place to jot them.
[00:07:17] So it might be for me. And this is something to think about, you know, what, what new ideas do you have? Uh, for me it might be a new idea for a new product or a project or a book or a song or whatever my brain cooks up. Right. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm like, ah, I have to remember this.
[00:07:35] And there are there again. One of the things that's really good as you can keep a journal by your bed or an open by your bed. And that's really great. But then you can't search it. And that's something I want to talk about in a minute. So. This idea that you might have might be grand, it might be world changing, or it might be a new thought that you want to put up on Instagram stories or a new guests.
[00:07:58] That for me, that I might want to have on the [00:08:00] show, right. It might be something I want to ponder that came to me during my journaling or meditation, or while I'm riding the subway. Be reading a book and I want a quick place to shot, jot down a realization or an aha moment. Those happened to me all the time.
[00:08:13] And again, writing the notes in the margins of the book is really cool, except for you're messing with the book, but also how do you search. Right. If you write a note in the margin of the book, you're going to have to go back and dog ear the page. Oh, I dog-eared page 2 29 and now I want to find it again.
[00:08:31] That becomes a little problematic. If all you need to do is go back real quickly and in a snap, you know, get what you need to get. So I might need. A space to do those ideas, or I might even need a spot to note down that tonight is recycling night or that I have to remember to give my cat his meds. Cause Zephyr kitten looks like he might be on meds for the rest of his life.
[00:08:55] Cause he doesn't make tears. It's very, the vet is a little confused about how that's [00:09:00] happening, but anyway, It, even if it's not a crucial project deadline, though, it could be, if it's a quick thing to note and remember, I want to have somewhere where I can keep things and search them and figure all that stuff out.
[00:09:12] So whatever it is, I need a place and a way to categorize them quickly because otherwise it's a time suck or a time waste. And I don't got time for that. Right. So again, there are apps like to do whist or clear or Asana or click up or Trello, and they're all good. But many with the possible exception of clear there, they're really complicated.
[00:09:37] And all I want to do is jot something down and keep track of a new idea. That becomes again, more of a time suck than I want. When all I want to do is just get in there, write it down, get out. So I rolled up my sleeves and I made one for myself. And I'm going to share it with you. Let me tell you about the world changers idea document.
[00:09:59] [00:10:00] That's what I decided to call it because Doug on it, I believe we can each change the world in our own little way. All it is. Is, and I shouldn't say all it is because it was kind of, it was cool to come up with what I thought I needed. It's super simple, super easy, super easy to access. As long as you have a Google account and let's face it, many of us do.
[00:10:21] So it's a Google sheet where you can place all the ideas. The ponderings the little to do things that bubble up for you during the day, you can access this. Document from the show notesPage@httpscolonslashslashisoldat.com slash idea document. And basically this document is around for you. So you won't lose your ideas ever.
[00:10:50] You'll always have a clean, easy to use searchable space where all your best ideas go to be picked up and run with when you're ready. Right. It's not a [00:11:00] document. Keep for me personally, as older it's, it's something that I'm given out to you for free, just so that you can keep track of all your ideas so that, that therefore you, when you're ready for them.
[00:11:15] And basically I never want to lose another idea again. So here's how to use it first, go grab the idea doc, and you'll notice that it's read only, and that way you get your very own copy and no one else who downloads the idea document can enter data on your copy and vice versa. That's why it's personal.
[00:11:34] It's private, it's all yours. And it's just my gift to you. And here's how to get yours. Once you're at the read only document. File and then select, make a copy and then Google sheets we'll make one for you and then rename it to whatever you want it to be. I like world changers idea document just because I'm out to change the world, but you want to be sure that the folder says my drive.
[00:11:58] Cause it's your drive then that you're [00:12:00] saving to not mine, not as old as, and rename it to whatever you want. You should just be able to use it. And the columns in it are simple. And actually, if you go to the show notes page, there's a, there's an image that shows you all that they are, they're not hard, but they're really useful, right?
[00:12:17] So the columns are simple. The first one on the left is date. That's the date. You got the idea or the thing that you want her to do, or the thing that you wanted to think about all you have to do on one line of the idea document is click the cell in that date column, and a date selector will pop up and you can just note that.
[00:12:35] Choose that date. And then you move on. Or the next column is what did you think up? That's literally what it's called. Here's where you enter the idea, the, to do item or the philosophical pondering about the nature of the universe that you want to think about, whatever it is that you want to write in that, that slot do that.
[00:12:53] The next column will help you categorize the three types that I wanted to keep track of. And [00:13:00] again, this is designed to be super simple and easy. It's not something that's got a lot of different ways of doing it. It's really simple. The idea type column has these three possible choices. There's a Delta for idea type.
[00:13:14] Um, there's an infinity symbol for ponder this and an asterisk for do this. And you just choose one. So if, if you got an idea for a new project or an, uh, a new product, or if you're a writer for a new book, you would put her, you would select Delta for idea, because it's being in motion, the infinity symbol, if you're like, oh, I've always wondered.
[00:13:36] How much lefties can use the right hand, but don't or how much righties can use their left hand, but don't because society tells us we shouldn't use our left hand still to this day. Unfortunately, I'm a lefty and there are still, uh, not as many accessible lefty oriented products out there that should change anything.
[00:13:57] So then the last [00:14:00] one is a to do, right. It's really simple. It's like, oh, I have to remember to do this. So do it. And one of the things that you'll notice is that each category is color-coded so you can easily see whether or not you're, uh, these are ideas mostly or separate them out. The ideas are the to-do items or the ponderings, whatever it is personally.
[00:14:22] I love, I love stats. I love figuring out that kind of thing, but also you can sort them and see all the ideas in one place or all the to-do items and, you know, in, in a row, if you will. And I like seeing all my ideas together because they often flow one into the. And I like seeing all my to-do items together, because then I know how to approach them and which ones I need to approach first, but you don't necessarily think of them that way.
[00:14:47] So this is a nice way to keep them all in one place. That's easy to access and then sort them out so that you can see everything the way you want to. And. Here's my invitation to you. Anytime you get an idea, [00:15:00] you head to your idea document and you note it down. So you'll never forget something important again, because how often they, they say, you know, oh, Dog on it.
[00:15:10] I'm just gonna remember this. I will, I will. And then it's gone. Right? And you don't want that. You want it to be something that is readily available to you the next time you want it. So I wanted to make something a little bit easier. I want her to make it easy to access. So I've added a shortcut to the doc on my iPhone.
[00:15:31] That way I can access it super quickly when ever I need it. So the way to do that is you go to your idea document in Google drive. Once you've, once you've copied it over, you tap the three dots or more and scroll down to copy link. You tap that, then go to the shortcuts app. That's on every idea. Tap the plus at the top, right.
[00:15:53] Then tap the three dots on the top. Right. And you'll see a screen that asks you for the short cuts name, but [00:16:00] first tap, add action, and then tap apps. That should be in the top left corner. I hate it when they don't, till they say tap this, but they don't tell you where it is. So you spend time looking, scroll down until you see safari, then tap safari, scroll down until you see open URL.
[00:16:16] Tap that then paste the link that you'd copied before from the Google, from the Google sheets, then tap next. You should now see a shortcut with a cursor to the left of a great out short cut name, name it idea, dog or ideas, and then tap, add to home screen and then tap. And a check mark should appear briefly on your screen that shows you that it happened, tap done, and then you can also select it to show in the share sheet or on your apple watch if you have one.
[00:16:45] So when you go back to your home screen, you should see your ideas doc there, and it'll be like purple or blue. And there are two sort of vertical diamond type things on, on the icon. And now you can access it easily. Anytime you [00:17:00] need to. I know that there's a, probably the same kind of thing for Android, but I'll be honest.
[00:17:05] I don't know how to do it. So if you happen to know how to add a shortcut to your home screen on an Android, do me a favor and let me know, and I'll add it to the show notes later. Here's the thing, once you've done all this, I recommend that you go through your idea doc, once a week to make sure there isn't anything that's fallen off your radar.
[00:17:23] And also to make sure that it doesn't get too cluttered with things you don't want or need to do anything with or about this is to help you keep track of the things going on inside. Keep the best lose the rest. Granted these tiny ideas might not end up being world changers, but I'll bet many innovators and entrepreneurs and creators have gotten ideas they've lost.
[00:17:44] Right? I'm sure you have to you. Oh, this is a great idea. I want to hold on and. And I know that some people say that you'll remember the really good ones. So the ones you forget probably weren't that great to begin with, but I don't agree. I think the ideas deserve to have their own moment in the sun. [00:18:00] You might put them down after you look at them a little bit more carefully, but you've got to give your imagination and creative impulse, the benefit of that, of the doubt, you know, give your subconscious.
[00:18:10] A chance to float those ideas by you. So you can take a look at them and if you give yourself and those ideas of benefit of the doubt, that is when you never know some brilliant thing that you were on a or wanted to do, or wanted to think up and create will be there. For you to make it blossom. And the idea document is really the perfect way to do it.
[00:18:34] It's simple. It's easy to use and it's all yours. If you have questions about how to do it or how to use it, drop me a line. You can find me DME at Izolda T on Instagram or Twitter. I'm at his old a T there. Those are probably the two best places. Also. I'm at Izolda T on LinkedIn. Feel free. This document is, is, is my gift to you.
[00:18:56] I want you to go ahead and enjoy using it. And [00:19:00] if you find the wait, you know what, this could be improved upon. You can improve upon it. But if you want to tell me, I would love to improve upon it too. It's what, it's the bare basics of what I thought. Would be useful, but if you have something else that's useful, I would love to hear about it.
[00:19:16] All right, cool. So that is my thoughts about noting down the creative impulses and the ideas that we have so that we don't lose them and never lose another idea again. I hope that you've enjoyed this wee little episode next week, as I said, is Dan Clark. Who's the CEO of brain FM. And, uh, really, I, I don't, I would never, uh, endorse something that I didn't use and love, and I both use and love.
[00:19:49] This app, I just it's, I've found that it has just put my productivity and my creativity into the stratosphere and [00:20:00] considering my hypothyroidism and that I get tired pretty easily. It's really nice to feel like. Yeah. I've got this. I can do all the things that I've been dreaming of doing, because my brain works so much more efficiently and so much more creatively.
[00:20:13] I just love that. And you know, it ties really nicely into this idea document because then all those creative things can go right into the idea document for me to get to when I need to. All right. If you're, if you enjoyed this episode, if you download the idea, doc, I would love to hear from you. And if you really love the show, Or even if you don't really love the show, just if you like the show, please go ahead and leave a review wherever you listen.
[00:20:42] I don't know how many actually, how many different platforms allow you to leave a review? I know that apple podcasts does. So if you want to leave a review, I would love to hear from you. Yeah. And, uh, and also what you think of the idea document, and if you start using brain FM and you want to [00:21:00] let me know about that too, I would love to hear about that too.
[00:21:03] So until next time, I just want to tell you that I'm grateful that you're listening and I hope that you've enjoyed the show and will continue to enjoy it for many years to come until next time. This is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast, reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, love.
[00:21:23] Innovate a whole lot.
[00:21:30] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[00:21:47] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg in his copyright 2021 as. Please remember this is for educational [00:22:00] and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results. Although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.
 

Publishing Expert Angela Engel, Founder and CEO of the Collective Book Studio

Book Publishing Expert, Angela Engel On How She's Innovating That Industry To Help Authors Get Their Books Out Into The World
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Angela Engel is an entrepreneur and book publishing expert with over twenty years of experience in the publishing industry. After working for 20 years in the publishing industry and with major publishing companies including Chronicle Books, Ten Speed Press, Cameron + Company, Dwell Studio, and Moleskine, Angela is on a mission to disrupt the publishing industry by giving budding authors more agency and authority in the publishing process. As founder of The Collective Book Studio, she provides authors the support they need to get a book out into the world.
Founder and CEO of The Collective Book Studio, a partnership publisher working to pair authors’ vision with quality book production in the areas of lifestyle, gift, and children’s books.
Here's a recent Publisher's Weekly article about the studio and how it's disrupting the publishing industry.
Connect with Angela
Website: https://thecollectivebook.studio/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecollectivebookstudio/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-engel-48b3a81b/
Episode Transcript
Angela Engel
[00:00:00] Angela Engel: [00:00:00] They have to, if they want trade distribution, the willing for this feedback, be willing for the work, be willing to say, Hey, you know what? All of sales, all of marketing, all of editorial is looking at this and the title and the cover really have to have this element. In order for it to work in the market.
[00:00:25] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:25] Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you.
[00:00:43] Focus meditate and even sleep. I love it. And I've been using it to write, create and do some of my deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the [00:01:00] coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word.
[00:01:02] And now let's get to the show.
[00:01:09] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I am super happy that you're here. I'm thrilled and honored. And so, so, so happy to welcome this week's guest. She, and I've just been chatting before we started recording. And I know this is going to be a super fun conversation.
[00:01:27] And you know what, Angela, I didn't ask you exactly how to say your last name. So I'm just going to try it. Angela Engel is an entrepreneur and book publisher expert with over 20 years of experience in the publishing industry. After working for 20 years in the publishing industry and with major publishing companies, including chronics.
[00:01:44] 10 speed, press Cameron and company dwell studio. And Moleskine, Angela's on a mission to disrupt the publishing industry by giving budding authors more agency and authority in the publishing process. And you know how close that is to my heart was six books to my name and three more in the pipeline as [00:02:00] founder of the.
[00:02:01] The book studio, she provides authors the support. They need to get a book out into the world. She's the founder and CEO of the collective book studio. And it's a partnership publisher working to pair author's vision with quality book production in the areas of lifestyle gift and children's books.
[00:02:16] Angela, I am so glad that you are here. Welcome.
[00:02:20] Angela Engel: [00:02:20] Thank you. I know you pronounce my name perfectly. 
[00:02:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:02:22] Yay. I was, I was a little concerned and I was like, I normally ask and completely, completely forgot because we were, so I was so excited to be talking to him. We were having such a great conversation that everything went out of my head.
[00:02:34] So first of all, Wow that you're doing this. We were just talking about the fact that there are authors so many authors like me, the DIY people who are self publishing, who've been crying for what you are offering your you're building a name for yourself and the studio in the collective book studio in publishing.
[00:02:57] And you're doing it in a way that's really in many [00:03:00] ways disrupting the industry yet. Again, I would love if you would talk a little bit about what you are trying to do, what is the mission of the collective book studio?
[00:03:11] Angela Engel: [00:03:11] That's a, that's a big question. I know, but, um, you know, I have, as you said, I've had a career of over 20 years in the space.
[00:03:20] I'm, you know what? I was a young, young thing, right out of college, a comparative lit and creative writing. I loved books. I mean, who does it? Right? Especially in the, in the journalism field and the creative writing field and the English major, all of our stuff. And we, you know, our dream is to work in publishing and I got my dream.
[00:03:40] I got really lucky. I was, you know, 20 what, one or two when I graduated and I drove down to San Francisco and I applied for this job at publishers group west, which is now bought by Ingram. We all know who Ingram is. It's a huge. Mega, um, whole wholesaler and obviously self publishing knows a lot about Ingram.
[00:04:00] [00:04:00] And, and, um, I got my first job there and in that was like this champion of independent presses and small presses. And I actually had a great job. Great boss. Her name was trig McCloud and she came from Broadway books in New York. She had been Cindy Crawford's publicist, and I think she saw in me, honestly, that's he young?
[00:04:21] That I could do what I wanted to do, but she sort of was like, I'm going to sort of mentor you and let you ride the wave. And I got to ride two campaigns with her. One was the four agreements, which was, as we all know, a New York times bestseller and continues to be an incredible book. Um, and then the other one was when nine 11 hit was Noam Chomsky's book by seven stories and watching, watching her champion, these small independent presses become New York times bestseller.
[00:04:51] Um, was just magical, right? Cause, cause you brought in your editorial, your publisher, the writer, like all of, and then distribution and all the [00:05:00] ways to make this successful and honestly compete with the big five publishing houses. And then, um, at that same time, there's something called Amazon. Oh yes. And, uh, they were really just a book retailer, right?
[00:05:15] Like it was like Amazon and Walden pond in the mall. Right? Like, like where did you go buy books? Right. Barnes and noble was like the big, big thing borders. And there was like some Walden bonds. And there was Amazon that was like starting to be a book retailer. Right. And at that same time, it was also like, Hmm, maybe urban Outfitters or anthropology or pirates should start selling books.
[00:05:40] And I started just this sort of, uh, career path with, even in the publishing space, carving out for myself, becoming a specialist. And how do we sell books outside of the book trade. Right. And partly how you do that is packaging is the, is, is the way the book looks. Cause you don't, [00:06:00] you have to remember.
[00:06:01] You're writing for someone else, right? In many ways you have to understand your audience and your audience and your end, the buyer. Sometimes the person who buys the book is completely different than your audience. And so understanding that package is really key. Um, so my mission was let's jump ahead.
[00:06:22] Three years ago when I had been back, you know, I have, you know, my career was interesting partly because, you know, I'm a mom of three girls and you know, how are we going to, I'm pregnant with my third baby and I'm at a big trade show. And I'm like, God, I can't keep like, pumping like this. And I got two kids at home.
[00:06:40] So, you know, I S I, I quit and I stopped consulting. And in this time of consulting, There was this boom of self publishing. And, um, and I understood, I understood why people were going that route, but I saw also an issue when it came to understanding the full, [00:07:00] um, reason for traditional publishing is so sacred.
[00:07:04] One being, um, the craft as the book, the topography, the editorial, you know, everything, the illustrations and, and then also the distribution. So I wanted to find a company that could offer something completely different than Amazon can ever offer, which is people ask me this all the time. Do I have to sign an NDA?
[00:07:26] I'm like, there's no NDA to sign it's people. Like, how do you can, I mean, you could, you can't really recreate Angela or Dean Burrell or Elizabeth Saki, like any of my staff. So you get to work with people who have been experts in this field for decades. Yeah. So that's sort of the mission is how did, how did like people, you know, I would welcome agent at work and we use agents for illustrators it's not necessary right these days.
[00:07:57] And so how can we make [00:08:00] sure that people are being, having access to publishing and not having to wait three to four years to get on a list or develop a huge, huge pro. Profile and, you know, Instagram following and all the other hurdles that are, that are, that are existing. Now, my model is different, right?
[00:08:19] And people do have to invest in their work. Our royalties are also much higher, so it's just a give and take why I call it partnership publishing.
[00:08:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:08:31] I'm taking all of that in for a second. That was a lot, uh, I asked a big question. You gave a big answer. So here, here's the thing I love. I love the notion of partnership publishing and w w I, I hear what the collective book studio brings to the table. How much pushback do you get from the more traditional ways of publishing?
[00:08:58] Like the big five. [00:09:00] What, what, what kind of reception or are you getting from the more traditional spaces?
[00:09:07] Angela Engel: [00:09:07] Oh, They had just like cheered on my colleagues are awesome. I mean, they, like, we just signed Fran Hauser, incredible, incredible, uh, woman. Um, and she had a New York times bestseller myth of the nice girl.
[00:09:25] It was just an, I just, my big win this week was there was an article in publishers, weekly in our trade magazine, in the print and digital. That, uh, the clinic of Brooke studio is trying a new approach and we were the keynote breakfast speaker, Pamela and Rocco, uh, for Columbia, which isn't an institution, right?
[00:09:44] It's the California Alliance of booksellers. We were the keynote at their breakfast, her and Topeka up. And why is because I'm saying to the world, Hey, I'm not I'm, I'm just saying let's [00:10:00] figure out. How Amazon could not control. The distribution piece, because when you're self publishing, you're really kind of also, although you own your IP and you have all this control, you're actually giving many of it over to Amazon.
[00:10:17] Right? If you think about it, because you know, there's definitely ways bookstores can sell you when you go through Ingram and income spark that said you don't have a massive team behind you selling your book into what I mean, you're in Brooklyn. So. Books are magic. Amazing. Right? The and amazing green apples.
[00:10:38] So I'm such a huge champion. I think that goes back to by activism. Right. We kind of talked to them. I am such an activist that I'm like, I am not going to leave my small booksellers behind. Right. Like I personally only buy my books on bookshop.org. That's what I that's my purse. Now. I can't say we can't say [00:11:00] that to everybody, but for me, I believe that the small acts we choose to do change.
[00:11:06] The trajectory of our lives because we're, we're teaching our community, we're teaching our kids. So for me, I just decided, oh, what is my small act? I sometimes can't run into every small little bookstore and busy with my three kids, but I can click a button and buy a, buy a book on bookshop.org.
[00:11:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:11:26] I love that so much.
[00:11:27] That makes me, so I know seriously, it's like, yay. Good, good for you. And, and I think that, that, that, that notion of small acts adding up to big changes is so it's key in, in, in many ways, in, in the ways so many authors have to do things. And it seems like it's key to the way the collective book studio is doing it.
[00:11:48] And you're disrupting you're you're, you're a disruptor. Because you're providing more pathways for authors to get published. And, and yet like, as a, as a self-published author [00:12:00] myself, one of the things that has happened when I've tried to do it is stores and, and, you know, first of all, getting into libraries is very challenging.
[00:12:09] The ALA is like, yeah, I don't think so. Uh, but, but at the same time, they often don't want to talk to you unless you have some sort of a company behind you. How does, how does the collective book studio. Maneuver in, in that space, like, because you have distribution, the smaller stores out there, more independent booksellers are willing to talk to you, or is there some other pathway that you can follow that just a single person might not be able.
[00:12:39] Angela Engel: [00:12:39] Um, no we have full distribution is you've got you have to. So we're we partnered with, um, independent publishers group out of Chicago. They also own Chicago review press and triumph books to great companies. I personally am a huge fan of Chicago review, press. And I honestly, we started as a packager. I'm going to [00:13:00] backup like the collective book studio.
[00:13:01] What is a packager is we will create books and then we will sell them to other publishing houses, less that have distribution. It's very common in the industry or we'll do proprietary work. Like we're doing these beautiful big custom board books for Costco. So we're, we're we're, this is very common, actually like a lot of publishers, 20 to plus percent of their list is, uh, is buy-ins or PA or pack from packagers.
[00:13:31] Um, we also, we also create creative content. We have a whole series called the secrets thoughts of, and it's just us writing it. And it's like in cats and dogs, it's really cool. P w what I said in this article at PW is that we act actually very similar to a traditional house. When I, when I connected with Joe Matthews, I'm already saying, Hey, we are traditional publishing.
[00:13:55] We are, we have content to fuel our trade list. Um, that you're going to [00:14:00] get revenue on. And in addition, I'm going to bring incredible clients with me that we vet that we have, uh, that they have a lot of say, but ultimately they're coming to us. So like, it's not like, okay, I want this cover. And it's this crazy cover with a bunch of purple volcanoes, you know, you know what I'm saying?
[00:14:22] And like, we're like, okay, that will never work. Um, so they come to us with knowing it's in my contract that like, ultimately they have to, if they want trade distribution, be willing for this feedback, be willing for the work, be willing to say, Hey, you know what? All of sales, all of marketing, all of that, a trial is looking at this and the title and the cover really have to have this element in order for it to work the market.
[00:14:50] And, um, all my clients are. Grateful for that. They're not, they understand that from the start. That's why I also say our [00:15:00] clients choose us as much as we choose that. Because again, in a partnership, I think we talked about this before the podcast. You're kind of all about collaborative, creative collaboration, which I really love, love that you said that because that is sort of my mission.
[00:15:15] Is that in a partnership publishing. We have to agree and, and, and, and go together towards that end product. And I think that there are some people, um, who have been frustrated in the traditional space because they felt like, oh my God, I didn't even have any say. And then there's people, um, in the self-publishing base, like you say, you can't get into libraries where if you come through us, like I'm doing a TLA, a Texas library association, like big, huge getaway box, because I can't.
[00:15:47] Because I have Matt major distribution  and they have booth space at those shows. Don't forget. They have actually, and I pay into that. So my, my company is listed in [00:16:00] trade shows too. The librarians know that they could easily buy us. And that we're, we're, we're a publishing house
[00:16:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:16:07] accompany. And it's interesting because the what, what I kept, what I kept thinking to myself as, as I was listening to you talk was you're vetted.
[00:16:16] Like they know that you will give them quality. Books too, to put in their libraries or to, you know, when you distribute them or all of that. That's some, that's something that, that a lot of sort of self-published authors don't have. They don't have that, that space of someone already knows me unless you're, you know, I don't know Scott sealer or something before he signed with whoever it is he signed with when he was putting his stuff out, people and people knew that he, that his.
[00:16:43] We're good. And that they wanted them. Whereas for most authors, it doesn't seem like it's like that. So, so as I keep coming back to this word, disruptor, and you are, you are changing the industry because of this partnership model. I was wondering if you could talk a little [00:17:00] bit about what that actually means to you, what does being a disruptor mean?
[00:17:05] And what is, what are you disrupting? Exactly.
[00:17:10] Angela Engel: [00:17:10] Yeah. I mean, I'm going to go back to our friend house. Cause she said the best way better to publisher's weekly this week. Right? Then they quoted her, which is that sometimes it makes sense to go with traditional publishers who takes the financial risk and sometimes partnership publishing makes sense.
[00:17:30] Especially when it's time sensitive, I'm open to both models. Why, what does that mean to me when she said that? And I read that and what that means to me is that I think we need to be open to both models because there's something called owning your IP, right. That we're all that people are. Uh, uh, sort of upset about in this [00:18:00] traditional space where, Hey, if I go with a traditional publisher and I own all this IP and I got to sign over my rights, but I want to create characters for Netflix or whatever else your dream is to do with the, with it.
[00:18:12] Um, my model is disrupting the space because basically I'm licensing in some way for only, um, a certain amount of years, their IP. So you, so this is how we work. You create, we created. Fi and sometimes people don't want trade. Right. And it's just packaging. So we have definitely projects that are on our list that we just make books for for companies.
[00:18:36] And they got a beautiful book and we're done. Then there are about 60% of our clients who really would like to be seen in the strand and at the library association. And so they signed a distribution deal with the collective book studio as part of our imprint, but I don't own their IP. I don't own that for life.
[00:18:55] That is a huge, that's the disrupting piece, right? Is that I'm [00:19:00] actually saying to publishing houses, why are we so scared? Of saying of owning. For a lifetime. What is because Amazon has disrupted our industry. Let's be real. They have, people are going there way they want faster at eight. They don't want to have their IP owned.
[00:19:20] So let's listen to what they're asking for. This is like, it's almost like we talked about movements. Look, I think enough people have spoken to say, I want to have a book. I really want to have a book and no one's listening to that. So I'm going to just do it online. And Amazon was saw that need. And now they have not only been able to do it successfully.
[00:19:44] There are several, if not hundreds of cases, That are, that are hybrid services that offers certain kinds of editorial and great ways to make a really good book, which is important. You can get an editor and you can make a graphic designer through them, but they still don't [00:20:00] have the distribution piece.
[00:20:01] Right. And so they're able to Le they're able to sort of utilize Amazon's ability for, for, uh, for sale. And, uh, still create some quality production in some way, but they still don't have the ability those services, because ultimately they hand it over to you and your left, right. As an author to do it all, to still do all the marketing, to do still all the PR and ultimately to print on demand or to do some offset.
[00:20:34] Um, you're still left with that piece. And I sort of felt like, well, If I created an imprint at a trade imprint that people could, that was truly vetted. I could get the distribution because then librarians, booksellers. They trust what's on our list. Right. They know it's, it's been vetted through what I started this podcast with [00:21:00] really seasoned professionals for decades come from.
[00:21:04] Don't forget places like random house Harper. Uh, Harper Collins, Chronicle books. I mean, that's where the staff, my staff come.
[00:21:18] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:21:18] I keep having to take a second and take all of that in. We were chatting about earlier how this is just like having a cup of coffee together. So, so imagine that I'm taking a sip of my soy latte right now. Uh, so I love, I love, love, love that you're talking about the aspect of it, that, that, that you're giving this opportunity to people.
[00:21:42] To not be holding the entire bag because there's this notion of playing to your strengths. You know, my strengths perhaps are the writing. They may not be the marketing and the PR and all this other stuff. And I feel like there are there for, for so many professions. [00:22:00] To wear a kajillion hats. You know, I have to be my accountant.
[00:22:04] I have to be my marketing person, my PR person, my, this, my, that, my, the other. And sometimes I don't want to, sometimes I can't. And I'm talking about the general eye here. So, so you're offering. And you started it with the hope that you could write that, that I, that I think I can, that I'm going to partially because you have these seasoned professionals, but something in you seems like you're just, you're just like the eternal optimist, you know, like I'm going to be able to make this happen and go.
[00:22:32] So can you talk a little bit about that? Like how. Your as the, as the CEO of this company, how does your state of mind affect the process, affect your collaborations with the people on your staff and also your collaborations with the authors that you take on?
[00:22:48] Angela Engel: [00:22:48] Oh, I love this question. I mean, mindset is everything.
[00:22:52] It's everything. Um, what a great question. I mean, look, entrepreneurship is hard [00:23:00] when you asked me how do my colleagues feel in my traditional. I want to go back when I first started the company, because now of course they're applauding, of course I'm getting this. Like, you know, and even in the very beginning I had really, I, I, in confidence, like I called a friend of mine who was high up at random house and I called a friend at Simon and Schuster and I called a friend at Chronicle and all of them were really, really supportive, but they were also like, Angela, we cannot offer you distribution.
[00:23:28] Like you gotta go get like a million dollars in backlist sales. So. I had to say, okay, I, you know, it's not like I snapped my fingers. And I was like, cause when I first thought, okay, I'm going to snap my fingers and it's going to be pretty easy to get distribution with Ingram. No, and I'm an insider, right?
[00:23:48] It was not easy. There were a lot of notes. There are a lot of like, honestly, I'm going to say. But it's really true. And I, I'm going to say it cause I'm a woman in my forties. Who's [00:24:00] climbed really high into my career. I taught before I was even 30 and there are a lot it's specially in the sales old boys clubs, they are just are in, in the, in the industry.
[00:24:13] And it felt like I constantly was like, oh, that's, uh, that's, that's nice, but you're kind of young or you're kind of naive.  and then I'm in my forties. Right? And I'm like, wait a second. I have spent 20 years of my career and you're still treating me this way. I'm like, oh God. Now, so you know what I did? I just said, I'm just gonna, I'm just not going to listen anymore.
[00:24:38] I'm going to internally. I actually have said this so many times to myself, to my friends on a popular podcast. I am going to just have this mantra change starts with you. And if I have this mantra for myself every morning or what I'm feeling stuck, and I think change starts with [00:25:00] you, I can do anything.
[00:25:02] And so when you ask how I lead my team, It's I lead my team with that idea that like, okay, you're feeling frustrated or okay. A client is not doing right or, okay, this is not going on schedule. Oh, what can we change? What is it about you? What is it that we need to do? What is it that I need to do to move this forward on this project?
[00:25:26] And I think my team and my clients. The one thing is even when I'm stuck, I use that as an optimism piece because I know that in my own 20 plus years, there has been people who had, do have not believed in me. And I just have to let that go, you know, like it just, and, and when you do you surround yourself?
[00:25:52] Like, look, I'm here today on your podcast because I surround myself with people who do believe [00:26:00] in this power of lifting others up.
[00:26:04] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:26:04] I yeah, absolutely. Again. Oh, I'm going to take it in for a second. No, because, because there, we were talking a little bit earlier about my, my mantra, which is creativity, compassion, and collaboration, and that, it seems like I can almost go well, Angela, that seems like it's kind of your mantra to that.
[00:26:23] This notion that you're working in this very creative field. And you also have that analytical side too, that has to keep sort of the, the, all of the bowling pins in a row, if you will. But compassion is another word that I'm hearing from you, compassion for the authors, compassion for the process, compassion for the people on your staff.
[00:26:44] That it's, that it's very sort of purpose driven, but also heart centered. If you see what I mean, and I'm, I'm just wondering a little bit about what, what that. Means to you. What now, w what leading from that space means to you both, [00:27:00] if you don't, if you don't mind sharing both in the business world and also in your personal life, because in many ways as the CEO, you sort of have to figure all of that out.
[00:27:09] How are you going to divide the three girls that you have, you know, that you're a mom to your relationships, all of that. And how do you align that with the, the business that you're responsible for?
[00:27:22] Angela Engel: [00:27:22] You asked some really good questions, you know, while you were talking, I'm thinking of this, this woman, um, her name is Susan Reich and she was president of like Avalon, which was this really cool publishing house.
[00:27:36] They have like tons of imprints, one being seal, press one sources, great imprint. She ended up becoming president of, I believe publishers group west, which is part of Ingram. And. When I first, this is my biggest tip to any person find the really people who've all done it before you who've been able to, especially I [00:28:00] think women find a wa like I needed to find a woman in my life who had, who had already climbed such a ladder and had been in board rooms and was an exact, was such a boys' club.
[00:28:14] That I could like sit down with. So when I first started this business and they have to be in your industry, so she was in my industry, she like understood my industry and I asked her to coffee. I didn't talk to her for years. And she took my coffee. Right. It's so excited. Like I'm 20 I'm 40 plus. And I felt like I was 22 and gap.
[00:28:35] Right. She met me for coffee three years ago and she saw, she said to me, I love your idea. I think this is going to work. And it was like that moment for me. And I don't, I actually re emailed Susan, like about once I got like a lot of this once I got Fran Hauser and I told her, and we're going to re you know, it's been, we haven't seen each other with the [00:29:00] vaccines all now, rolling out.
[00:29:01] Like we're going to, once everyone's fully vaccinated, we'll make a time to go get coffee again. But why I said this is you're asking me. Wait, remind me what my question is. I got on a little tangent, but I know I'm stringing it together. Um, do you
[00:29:17] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:29:17] want me to remind you? Yes. Yes. So basically it's how do you align the compassionate heart-centered purpose-driven part of who you are with business and also your personal world and how you, how you figure all of
[00:29:32] Angela Engel: [00:29:32] that out.
[00:29:33] Okay. So this is my, my connection here. So Susan going out for that coffee, right? It's in some way, taking her time, I'm not paying her whatever she's showing compassion. She's like, I remember this young 22 year old sitting at the Xerox machine working hard for me. Right. Making sure my company succeeded, like really caring about my.
[00:30:00] [00:29:59] And she now took that moment and had compassion when I said, I really need some advice. Right. And so I think that those things I lead with those things, cause I recognize. That those things about the human spirit, the human life, like what, when we show compassion to another human, right. When Susan's shows compassion to me, I, that it's almost like I'm a candle and it gets lit my combined fuel.
[00:30:30] And then I have time to just give it to somebody else. The issue is when we it's, we need to keep passing that on to people. How, how I do it is I fi I have my little group of people. And when I'm feeling a little, like, Ooh, my flames out, it got as high as I needed to be. I go to the people that I know I need to refuel me so that I can refuel both my staff, my clients, my business.
[00:30:57] And then in return [00:31:00] that that does create into my home life. Right? Like I, um, am not so good at RNR, to be honest. And either as my husband, he's a small business owner himself. He actually is a controller accountant for restaurants. So it is it's intense. I bet for my girls to have two small business owners in the time of COVID, but, um, my girls are alone.
[00:31:27] There, there are the biggest champions of me, like my girls, for example, when my oldest who now is about to turn 13, she knows her mom from 14 weeks old. I mean, she doesn't remember, but she remembers if you won, you know, as, as she got older that I was always traveling, I was on the road every other month.
[00:31:50] I mean, I mean every other, no twice a month, every other week, And, um, I was pumping, I mean, of course I was, I was selling to Costco. I was selling to target. I [00:32:00] was selling to buy, buy baby. I was selling to babies, RS at toys R us when that account existed. And so mom wasn't there in that same physical way.
[00:32:08] So what I was Quinn was my kind of corporate lifestyle. She was already like eight or nine years old. Right. And I'm having a baby. My, my, my, my youngest and my oldest are eight years apart. There was a mom and I had a meltdown. I mean, this isn't about compassion and I just lost it. We were in the car and I was crying being out of the nine-year-old and I have a toddler and they want stuff.
[00:32:37] They want to stop at the gap or something annoying. And I said, I turned around and the biggest cry I'd probably have to nurse. And my boobs are probably huge. And I just, I didn't have, for the first time in my life, I didn't have this like big. Job to like our nanny to pick them up or something. And I said, I turned around and I'm like, your dad makes all the money.
[00:32:59] Why don't [00:33:00] you go ask him to take you? And, um, my oldest looks at me and she's like nine years old and she's like, mom, you can make money too. Oh yeah. And that compassion, that moment, that compassion, that realization. Oh, my God. I beat myself up. I've had mom guilt that I haven't, you know, wasn't able to go to her kindergarten, this or that.
[00:33:27] My daughter actually sees me so differently that that's what motivated me to find the collective book studio. That's what motivates me every day. That kind of fueled that she was like, mom, you're a bad-ass.
[00:33:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:33:44] Oh, that's amazing. I love that. And it's so it's so telling that sometimes we just can't see ourselves as well as the people who love us can see us.
[00:33:55] There's there's a real powerful lesson right there. Wow. Incredible, [00:34:00] incredible. Thank you for sharing that, that, that's amazing that, that, and that you were aware enough. To take the lesson from that, you know, there are people out there probably would have gone. Yeah. Whatever, but you actually stopped and you actually took it in and that's, that's amazing.
[00:34:13] Good for you. Wow. Oh, thank
[00:34:16] Angela Engel: [00:34:16] you. You're the first to actually please set up that way. I, I appreciate that. I really do feel because I did ed take it in and I guess that's a tip. If people are listening, like take them smile. Moments in because you know what I realized my anger or what I said to my children.
[00:34:37] That's not okay like that. Wasn't about my husband, like, you know, a partnership just like in my business, but in my marriage and in my relationship, which we've been together 15 years. Oh 16. It is a give and take, right? Like there are moments. Work work, got a share in the work. And so, and that's really what my daughter, who [00:35:00] I am.
[00:35:01] She, I got to tell you these 13 year olds who could be an eighth grade next year, they're about when they taught. I don't know. I just want to say like, the way that they're intelligent about gender is just incredible. And I think in that moment, my daughter was really able to say, whoa, bomb, check yourself.
[00:35:21] And she was only like nine years old.
[00:35:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:35:24] And she said it an old in the way a nine-year-old would write she, and she'd write to the point. I love that. I love I'm so glad that you're raising such aware kids. Good for you. No, because, because honestly, I spent 20 years working. I worked at NASA for over 20 years and I was teaching, I was traveling and teaching kids how to save the planet.
[00:35:44] That was my job. It was awesome. And, and, and you see, seven-year-olds teach. College professors because the college professors think they know everything, but the seven year old is the one who actually does it's really quite it's quite something. They were able to do it. They were able [00:36:00] to, to, to teach them these valuable, valuable lessons.
[00:36:03] And that brings me to a question that I would love. Yeah. Chat with you about, um, this notion of teaching others of, of showing compassion and also just being giving back, I guess, you know, what, what is your thought on that? Because I know that your business and you personally, you're a philanthropist, right?
[00:36:27] So. Role does giving back, does philanthropy play in, in your business model and also for you as the CEO of that business?
[00:36:38] Angela Engel: [00:36:38] Okay. Yeah. Um, well, I, again, I mean, I think that if we wait around always to say, okay, um, who else was going to do this? Or I don't like it this way, or we have that kind of mindset. It nothing will change.
[00:36:54] Right. It's like, so I, um, In the ho in the [00:37:00] start of the pandemic about, you know, now a little over a year ago, um, one of my closest friends was an ER ICU doc here in Oakland. And we all know there wasn't enough PP, um, E there was not enough medical face shields, uh, for, for our frontline workers. And instead of being sort of thinking about, well, gosh, you know, What am I going to do?
[00:37:27] What can I do on a publisher house? I thought, you know what? I couldn't link up with one of my friends. Who's a small business owner, herself. Who's out of work a fabricator, and we're going to, because we're a business, we're going to be able to wire money over to DuPont and make medical face shields. And people would be like, what is a publishing house?
[00:37:49] Why is she doing this? Right. So why my, why is that? My best friend was working nonstop in the, in the ER [00:38:00] ICU, ER, my home. Is very, very close to Highland hospital, which is, um, account, uh, you know, it's from the county hospital as a public hospital, which is a lot, so there's a lot of low income and, um, round and brown and black people and people of color and color and low income.
[00:38:20] And it's literally down the street from me. There's. And I'm, uh, I'm an Oakland business. And so I felt it was my duty, my right, even though I might manufacture books as a community. Paying taxes and being part of Oakland and this hospital and my, my friend wasn't at that hospital was at a different one, but then I, I really, um, sort of networked myself to San Francisco labor and, and said, Hey, what do we need?
[00:38:49] And the clinics around here from Santa Clara county low-income clinics to the Navajo nation, because it grew right. We're not just our new Keeler, small bids. [00:39:00] And our little area, you start small in your community. I guess that's my biggest advice. If you don't know where to start, start in your community and it will grow.
[00:39:07] Like all of a sudden I was getting pinged by friends who had connections to the Navajo Navajo nation. And if you allow yourself to say, okay, I'm going to give myself this little time to be an activist in this particular school. And you open yourself up and you fought, like we're saying, we collaborate with other people who you can network with.
[00:39:27] I ended up giving money over to a nonprofit to really maintain all of it because I have to go back to my real business. Right. But my work is not over in that moment. That's one side. So what's my next project. Like I'm working now on a book that, where we did a big, I fund women campaign and our goal is to.
[00:39:48] And, and, and sell thousands and thousands and thousands of copies of this little tiny book, which is called eat cake for breakfast, which who doesn't want to eat cake for breakfast. And it's the, and it's [00:40:00] written by this incredible full, uh, entrepreneur and philanthropist, um, violas, um, soon Tonto. And she wants to be able to give back to UCS AF Oakland children's hospital.
[00:40:12] And we connected, um, during the pandemic. We, we went on a walk and she, her daughter had a rare, um, a rare bone, um, bone condition, and she needed to get treatment at UCF and she wanted to be able to give back to this hospital. And so I said, well, I'm already manufacturing books. I already have staff. I already have people.
[00:40:39] Um, and, and the mass distribution, if you want to run an I fund women campaign so that we have money to manufacture this book, I'm happy to provide, you know, my marketing team or PR team and, uh, and an operational team to get this book into the room. And [00:41:00] that's what I also would say. If you are a small business and you want to give back, sometimes you are able to just because you have a certain capability in manufacturing, if you think about all the places where they made masks to donate or other things.
[00:41:14] It's finding those things. I also know that giving back it can be so easy. What did I say? I just buy my books now from bookshop.org. They've raised over $12 million to independent bookstores across the patient. Like that's also activism. If you just think about what your business or who you are, can do and give back.
[00:41:37] I mean, for me, When, when black lives matter really was at the forefront of everybody, it was a fight. It was my duty for my kids to go out there into the streets to make signs, to see it. But it was also not enough. Like we ended up sending face shields to Minneapolis, to service, for example, children's Minnesota [00:42:00] hospital to help people during the riots.
[00:42:02] Like, I just think, you know, what is, what is my take back? Like I think that if my company. Uh, you know, there's only so you can, you can there's money, but you can never, ever buy time and you can never buy humans. And like, I guess that's just my that's part of my philosophy in life. Like I, you could have all the money in the world, but that does not give you back your people and your time.
[00:42:29] And that's what, that's what I want to see when I'm old and gray and maybe sitting on a beach. What I've been able to reflect who my, who I've touched. I mean, that means I have, that means the world to me. That's my personal thing. So my company, I mean, I, I do books. I do stories like I'm grateful every day, what I do, because I do think words changed Matt and words changed lives.
[00:42:58] They create.
[00:43:00] [00:43:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:00] For sure for sure they do. And I'm, you know, on behalf of authors everywhere, I'm so grateful that you are doing what you're doing. It's amazing. So I have, I have a. I got a
[00:43:12] Angela Engel: [00:43:12] little, um, I got really passionate there.
[00:43:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:14] I know. I love it.
[00:43:16] Angela Engel: [00:43:16] I love it. What did I just talk about?
[00:43:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:19] This is great. I think it's so important.
[00:43:21] No, because, because we are not just what we do for a living. Right. And if you can, and if you can, to be the most successful person is the person who does what they love. And, and then, and then there's a wonderful quote by, um, In the book, givens decline and fall by Sheri Tepper. And it, I it's my favorite quote.
[00:43:42] Like it's what I live by. And, and it it's a little bit of dialogue, but I have to tell it to you in case you've never read the book. Uh, it's about a woman who has since died, but she started a movement and somebody is talking about what she used to say, and this is the quote, find your sun warmed stone.
[00:43:58] She used to say to [00:44:00] us, go there, build your house there and then lift others up. I love that quote so much because that, that notion of, yeah, you can do it, you can start your business, you can write your book, you can, and once you've gotten to that point, help someone else, you know, and it sounds to be like that.
[00:44:18] Oh yeah.
[00:44:20] Angela Engel: [00:44:20] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, God. I'm doing a party dance over here in my chair. Like I love that quote. I know, that's
[00:44:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:44:30] it. Once you've done it, pull others up. That's that's what we can do. We can help, we can help those coming after us. And so, so having said that. Brass tacks here, Angela, if somebody says, oh, I've got a book in me or I've written a book or whatever, and they want to find you, they want to, what are the steps to getting involved with collected collective book studios?
[00:44:52] What would you say someone should do when they want to do that? When they want to reach out when they want to follow you? When they want to say, Hey, could [00:45:00] we work together?
[00:45:01] Angela Engel: [00:45:01] Yeah, well, this would be my advice at any publishing house, whether it be mine or you were interested, you were a poet, you, I, and it was edgy.
[00:45:09] And I would maybe recommend go looking at soft skull press, like, look at what we already do. That is really key. So read, like, what is lifestyle? What is children's? What are gifts? Titles? We have a titles page who are we publishing? Um, follow our authors and follow us. I think that will give you a good sense.
[00:45:29] Do you think you're going to be a right fit for our last, um, I'm very education. I'm very into parenting and the career development. Um, I have a beautiful book coming out on labor and delivery, labor and delivery. Of course I am a mom of three, like, but how we even package this labor book is very gifty.
[00:45:48] Like my goal is, bye. Bye baby. Here, like looking into, um, really, so kind of look at our books and think about. Are we the right fit as if you're writing a novel, like that's not [00:46:00] what we do, right. So it's not, it's necessarily not, I'm not going to be able to really help you there, but it's a memoir. We also don't do.
[00:46:08] Now. I'm always willing to. Slide into my DMS, right. Which is at the collective book studio. And I'm happy to like give ideas on, uh, plates for a memoir or for a novel if I can, because I I'm very have been in the world for so long. So I have like 20 years and I might know a small, independent press that you're not thinking about.
[00:46:29] And I think that, so, so for us, I love food and wine. I love Diane. I love, uh, anything travel full visual. Children's like, think about how that book is going to be structured. And if it's not full visual, then it should really be in like the self-help career motivating, uh, parenting space. But we would, but not, but the business it's not hardcore business.
[00:46:56] Does that make sense? Some of that's not really my genre either. [00:47:00] It really is. We're really a trade house. We really trade publishing. We're not going to have. A big academic reach. And some people may prefer to go on it to an academic press, for example, like UC Berkeley or something like that. So I think it just, no, I think it's really about knowing what your why is and what your purpose is and what you're trying to achieve with your own book and then, and then approach us.
[00:47:24] And I'm always, you know, willing to take a look there's, there's no cost for an author for us to look at it. It's a submission
[00:47:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:47:31] process. Right. Absolutely. And, and I thank you for, for that. A lot of people don't know that very specific and very good advice that you just gave, look at the imprint, see what they're already doing and see if you would be a fit there before you even pitch them, which I think is so important.
[00:47:51] And. I, I have just a couple more questions because honestly, Angela, I could keep you here for the next six hours and we could just [00:48:00] keep chatting and order more coffee.
[00:48:02] Angela Engel: [00:48:02] Well, I do want to know more about your NASA days. I'm like, wow, that's a story. Can we come on? Aren't you going to write a children's book with me and we do need more women in stem for sure.
[00:48:12] Okay. Well,
[00:48:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:48:12] and that's exactly actually, that's what I did. I, it was environment earth, so. And, uh, my, my job was to go in and make dirt fun. That was,
[00:48:22] Angela Engel: [00:48:22] oh my God. Well, we could talk for really, I mean, obviously we need more women in stem, so I applied there and, um, and I know I'm going on. I'm not told tangent need to pick it up, but I'm very curious about it.
[00:48:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:48:38] Well, we'll have to have a virtual cup of coffee sometime. No, I mean, the thing about the thing about NASA and one of the. That what, what you do and what I do, where it intersects in some ways is because I was, I would go into places, either teaching kids or teaching scientists, how to speak to kids. A lot of it is they, they, they speak very eloquently, but [00:49:00] they speak at very high levels and eight year olds.
[00:49:03] You said what you know, or they check out. And so my job was to help scientists learn how to speak to eight year olds in a way that the eight year olds would find fun. And so then I took that and I wrote a book all about a called speak from within. So seed. Now I've put it all back into the publishing realm about how we can communicate in a way that will be really, really.
[00:49:24] Dave, particularly if we don't know how or if we're nervous about it. So, so when we're talking about that stuff, when we're talking about NASA or when we're talking about, you know, writing for kids, what, to me, what I'm talking about ultimately is communication. And so for you, with what you're trying to do with what you're already doing successfully, it seems like what are your goals?
[00:49:51] 2030 years from now. What do you want to see in the publishing industry? From collective book studio and also perhaps the industry [00:50:00] itself?
[00:50:01] Angela Engel: [00:50:01] Hmm, 20, 30 a year. Okay. So I'll be, what does that say? Over 70 and 30? Yeah. When you're,
[00:50:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:50:08] when you're like, when you're on the beach and you're going, I have done all of this really cool stuff.
[00:50:14] Angela Engel: [00:50:14] What are you thinking?
[00:50:19] Well, I want a New York times. I want a New York times bestseller. I don't want to see, I want to see a time where independent publishing women own pub presses are back on those bestseller lists. Like it's 89.9% big houses at this point. And the big houses just aren't getting huge speaker. I mean, they're just all buying each other up.
[00:50:41] They're buying. I guess, I, I guess I believe in the power of like community and words, I think I need my dream. I think I need to, some of the more famous writers that might not need the huge, huge advances and want to try something completely different. Like, I almost like need them in [00:51:00] partnership with me, but I think that's possible.
[00:51:02] I think that people. Um, can work with us in a way where you can't get still a traditional deal. And there are still some books that bull make sense for your traditional house. I think I want to disrupt that industry idea that like, you have to stay all the time in traditional house. And if you don't, you're going to get like blacklisted, right?
[00:51:23] Like. What or like I self published and I can't now get a publishing deal. What? That doesn't make sense. People like, let it go because of the end. Let it go. Because the media, like if you have something to stay in, you're a nonfiction author. They're going to, you have something to say and you deserve to say it.
[00:51:46] Like, I don't think in 30 years someone's going to go, oh God, I had a, I had a self published book and God, I could never get a true D like no, like stop all of that kind of competitive attitude. And instead [00:52:00] let's figure out how we're going to still maintain. Right. This is really cool. For me, the reason I am still very picky about the submissions is I do have concerns with self publishing, for sure.
[00:52:16] Um, there's things like, like blinders people have where you may put something that it could be offensive, racist, those types of things. And without a traditional guard, really looking at same with media, right? Like without traditional media really looking at it. There is room for hate speech. We saw that on Twitter.
[00:52:39] All over. Right. We've saw that, um, across the board and what that kind of insinuates in our culture and in our communities. So if traditional publishing, we need to change, we still need to be guarded for things like that. And that's why I think if I look 30 years ago, I raised on the beach. Maybe with you.
[00:53:00] [00:53:00] They're like having a beer. Champagne. And we're saying we're still, we're still saying to the country, like you can't have hate speech. You can't have to pictures of people in a certain light, right? Like that's what the Dr. Seuss enterprises did and shelves, six books and random house agreed with them. And like, there still needs to be that guy.
[00:53:21] But why also does, um, that guard have to control all of distribution? I have no idea why and all of people's IP. And so maybe I'm hoping, you know, whether that be Simon and Schuster, all my colleagues were like, oh, laughing. Cause we've kind of decided. We're going to change that mindset, that access that snobbery, that sometimes does exist in my industry.
[00:53:43] And I think the reason I'm talking to you today, or the reason sometimes I'm on clubhouses, that I want people to understand that there's people internally inside my industry that are, that are not so snappy that don't want to say, oh, only the elite have access to publishing. That's not, [00:54:00] that's not okay.
[00:54:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:54:02] Once again, I love that. You said that
[00:54:06] Angela Engel: [00:54:06] what's true, right? Like I, you don't have to be a celebrity to get, like, why are celebrities getting a cookbook and someone who's been a chef and going to culinary school and is a writer for, you know, even like top columnists in journals are not getting published.
[00:54:21] Like that's not.
[00:54:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:54:22] Okay. Well, and that's the thing is that you. With your company are offering the opportunity for people to do that. You know, I mean, that, that to me is sort of the key takeaway for me here is that it that's where you're disrupting, you know, that that's, that's where things are really changing and, and more power to you.
[00:54:43] I think that's. That's incredible. And again, I have like 45 more questions that maybe you'll come back and do a part two of this interview, uh, because, because I'm having such a wonderful time chatting with you, but I recognize you have a life to get back to. So I would love [00:55:00] it if you wouldn't mind, uh, giving just I put it in the show notes, but people learn differently.
[00:55:06] So. Where people can find the collective book studio as far as on Instagram or on LinkedIn, wherever you are and your website, so that I can also put it on the show notes. I would appreciate it very much.
[00:55:18] Angela Engel: [00:55:18] Thank you. So our website is the collective. Dot studio. Very easy. It's just the collective book.studio.
[00:55:28] And then on LinkedIn, you can just reach out to me, Angela angle, our companies on LinkedIn, as well as the collective books or, you know, so both places, but I, you know, feel free for people to DM me. I love LinkedIn. It's one of my favorite platforms. Um, we also are active on Instagram at the collective book studio.
[00:55:47] We don't have Twitter, you know, there's only so many things we manage, but we're so visual that, um, Instagram or LinkedIn as a personal or our website, I would love people to [00:56:00] subscribe to our newsletter. Um, we have a newsletter that's growing that goes out twice a month and it's really great. We have.
[00:56:06] This column called read with us, and we give all kinds of tips on what we're reading as a staff. And I don't believe that I have to only tote my books. I get, I really talk about the industry. We have, we have blogs that we write. So I just asked for people to build community with us and to engage with us.
[00:56:24] And, um, Yeah, that's part of the fun.
[00:56:27] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:56:27] Absolutely. And I can say as a subscriber to the newsletter, that it is a lot of fun and I've gotten some great reading recommendations out of it, so, yeah. Good. Thank you. So again, Angela, I'm super grateful to you for being here. Really? What a, what a joy to talk with you?
[00:56:43] I have just one last question and I ask it of everyone who comes on the show and it's a silly question, but I find. The question often yields some pretty poignant answers. And the question is this. If you had an airplane that could sky write [00:57:00] anything for the whole world to see, what would you say
[00:57:08] Angela Engel: [00:57:08] change starts with?
[00:57:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:57:10] Ah, your mantra. Yes. Yes. That's fabulous. Thank you so much, Angela. I appreciate it. It's great. It's a great, beautiful. I can see it in the sky.
[00:57:21] Angela Engel: [00:57:21] I've never been asked that question. Oh my God. If that actually happened. Oh, I would I'll remind house in Oakland. I would just be smiling. I am smiling ear to ear right now and looking out at my porch and my blue sky can imagine that.
[00:57:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:57:35] I know. Right. Thank you so much for that, that this has been a fabulous chat with Angela angle, who is. The CEO of the collective book studio, you are going to obviously need to follow her and the studio on Instagram and on LinkedIn. See what they're doing. See how they're disrupting the entire publishing industry.
[00:57:56] I am Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset [00:58:00] podcast. If you're liking what you're hearing, please rate and review the show. I love it. I'd love to hear from you. I love your comments as you know, and if you're a writer, get in touch with me because I'm always, always thrilled to talk to other authors until next time.
[00:58:13] This is Izolda Trakhtenberg again, reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.
[00:58:25] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. If you'd like to be a sponsor of the show. I'd love to meet you on patreon.com/innovative mindset.
[00:58:43] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future [00:59:00] results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.
 
 

Transformational and Business Coach Star Hayward

Business Coach and Entrepreneur Star Hayward on How Women Can Reclaim Their Unique Gifts and Succeed
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Star Hayward is a Business Coach, Spiritual Mentor, and Transformation leader with over 20 years of combined experience. Her mission is to empower women-entrepreneurs to own their worth and their voice so they can achieve the freedom and fulfillment they desire in their business as confident, feminine leaders, through self-love mastery and heart-centered business strategies.
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Episode Transcript
Star Hayward 2
[00:00:00] Star Hayward: [00:00:00] When you feel that calling inside of you, it does not go away.
[00:00:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:10] Hello. Welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you.
[00:00:28] Focus meditate and even sleep. I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some of my deepest work because you're a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word.
[00:00:48] And now let's get to the show.
[00:00:54] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg I'm your [00:01:00] host, and I am super thrilled that you're here. I'm also really honored and thrilled to have this week's guest on the show star Hayward. And first of all, I love that. Star Hayward is a business coach, spiritual mentor and transformation leader with over 20 years of combined experience is to empower women entrepreneurs to own their worth and voice so they can achieve the freedom and fulfillment.
[00:01:22] They desire in their business as confident feminine leaders through self love mastery, and heart-centered business strategies. You all know how close that is to my heart. So I'm thrilled to welcome star. Thank you so much for being here star. I'm so glad to be speaking with.
[00:01:37] Star Hayward: [00:01:37] Thank you so much as all that it is truly a pleasure to be here with you today.
[00:01:42] I've so look forward to this conversation. As I know it's going to be on a very high level and we're going to have a lot of fun and so welcome to all of the audience for being here and stick around. This is going to be great.
[00:01:56] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:01:56] I, I believe so, too. Thanks so much. Let's [00:02:00] let's get down to brass tacks. Okay.
[00:02:01] We were just chatting before we started recording about your philosophy. And I love this philosophy that you are working with something, all the divine feminine and the divine masculine to help specifically, it looks like women entrepreneurs own their leadership skills and really move into their strength and power.
[00:02:23] What can you talk about as far as what divine masculine and divine feminine mean? When. We're in we're we're both. We come from both man and woman as babies. Right. That's how babies are made. We all know that. So that means both man and woman is inside us. How does that relate to what you do and what is the divine feminine?
[00:02:43] Didn't divine, masculine. And how can you apply that to your leadership?
[00:02:49] Star Hayward: [00:02:49] Well, so this is such a powerful question and, and I believe that it will be best answered if I lay a little bit of context [00:03:00] behind divine, feminine and divine masculine, you see these together combine what we know as divine power and empowerment is.
[00:03:10] Very alive these days, does it? Not everyone talks about wanting to come into their power. And when we are talking about coming into our power, what this really means is that we are identifying. Action between our external, our, which is defined as our ego power and our internal power, which is our inner power, that inner strength that we are looking for to build from within.
[00:03:41] So when we are looking at what that power really means, and, and how do we harness that the distinction of the divine feminine and the divine masculine, which are both branches of defense. Divine power in and of itself. If you were to combine the two, you, [00:04:00] you are in your divine power. So again, as we look at what does inner power really mean?
[00:04:09] I am very impassioned by the, the learnings and the perspectives of how the feminine and masculine channels of energy run through us as human beings. And I'll explain more about that and what I mean. So as you, as you noted, we are both masculine and feminine, right? We are a combination. We have these qualities that run in and throughout us, because it's a part of the dual reality that we came in here as human beings to experience in, in the third dimension, as we are on planet earth.
[00:04:48] This is a very unique experience in that. Here we have duality. We have right and left. We have up and down. We have black and white. We have love and hate. [00:05:00] So as human beings, we define our experience. By way of this polarity seeing the polarity, right? So, so th it's this polarity that we have running through us that is expressing itself as the feminine and the masculine energies and how these show up are through our personality, our qualities, our behaviors, and really how it is that we navigate making choices and taking action in our lives.
[00:05:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:05:35] Wow. Okay. So there's so much to what you just said. We have, we have, uh, we have, we have these already, as you said, inside us. And then we have to develop them from within and yet we get a lot of messages. As far as what are stereotypically feminine traits, stereotypically masculine traits, the messages are there in all, in all marketing commercials, [00:06:00] advertising, you know, I remember those, those commercials from the seventies, you know, I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan and she's a woman because I'm a woman.
[00:06:09] Right. So, so, so those are, that was a really bizarre, I think for me as a child to see, because I just felt like a person, I didn't feel like I was. Bound by a specific set of behaviors. So when you work with your clients, how do you work around some of their preconceived notions about some of these stereotypically masculine or stereotypically feminine traits?
[00:06:34] Star Hayward: [00:06:34] Yes, absolutely. So as women and what you were just speaking to, we know that we have been conditioned and curated to. Climb the ladder of success in society by, by very masculine parameters. And in order to meet these masculine parameters, often a woman finds [00:07:00] herself disconnected from her natural innate feminine qualities.
[00:07:07] And I'll explain a little bit more about what I mean by that. So if a woman is in the masculine. Uh, energy of, of creation and innovation and going after, you know, making things happen in her life. The, the masculine is a very motivated energy. It's very deriving energy. It's a generative, generative quality is a difficult word to say sometimes.
[00:07:35] Um, and, and the masculine energy is very much about acquiring, right? So for example, Men tend to be very good at sales because they, they have no fear behind asking for the sale because they're their eyes on the prize and that they will often, you know, a man in balance with his divine [00:08:00] masculine will.
[00:08:01] We'll close a sale by way of a respectful, you know, honorable in Integris conversation and, uh, collaboration, right? A math, a male that is out of balance in his divine masculine will use fear based tactics and even shame. To close a sale with a client or a customer. So this is a perfect example of where if a woman steps into that and she is taking on these masculine qualities that again, have her, uh, sacrificing or abandoning her emotional, intuitive sensitivity.
[00:08:46] Sensitivities in a very positive light, right? This is another conversation we could go into about emotional sensitivity for women. It's actually a very [00:09:00] natural, natural, innate quality that women have. That's very much needed in our world, but it has been asked to be set aside so that in our. Masculine and patriarchal dominant society.
[00:09:17] Um, for in, in order for women to really become successful and become visible, acknowledged, and even valued on the level that they, they know that they're worth and that they desire. It's, there's so much shrinking to fit. And again, I'm really sacrificing and compromising her emotional, um, and. Intuitive sensitivities in order to get there.
[00:09:44] What happens is, is this woman becomes very good at the masculine behaviors and in doing so, she often feels disconnected from her work. From her vision. She [00:10:00] feels burnt out. She will feel overwhelmed. She will feel inauthentic and. The result is losing luster and losing passion for what her vision is as a business owner in the first place.
[00:10:15] So, and then there is also, um, you know, again, going after building a business with that inaction motivated energy. Day after day after day after day, we'll burn really anyone out. So this is great for men and women to pay attention to that, to see where you can bring the feminine qualities. Magnetism attraction, ease, flow, intuition, abundance, connection, service, and tribe.
[00:10:49] When we really start to pay attention to how important those are, and then also. The ways in which we can bring those into [00:11:00] the fold, into business as you're bit you're, you're building a business and becoming a leader within yourself, then you're starting to leverage the masculine and the feminine in a way where it's coming into balance and you can see where, okay, I'm going to use, you know, my motivation here and I'm use my intuition here.
[00:11:27] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:11:27] That's fascinating. And it brings up a question for me that, uh, that might be a whole nother podcast episode. The thing that, that I'm con sort of curious about, and a little actually also concerned about is that what room is there for there to be a strong. Feminine, an active dynamic, motivated feminine.
[00:11:53] Is there such a room in the paradigm that you work in or is it just that, those, [00:12:00] those more active. Qualities are assigned masculine, uh, traits or, or assigned as masculine traits and the qualities of more sort of soft emotional intelligence, intuition, emotion, all of that are assigned more feminine, uh, delineation, I guess.
[00:12:19] What is, what is the role of a woman who goes, no, I don't believe this is masculine. It's more me being a strong, confident woman. And those are very feminine traits because I am a strong, confident woman. How does that align or reconcile with the way that you have broken things?
[00:12:40] Star Hayward: [00:12:40] That is such a great question.
[00:12:42] I love this. Um, yes. So I will start by explaining that each person has both the masculine and feminine energy channels running through them. I call them your inner king and your inner queen. Hmm. And so these channels run through each of us. [00:13:00] However, we each have our natural masculine, feminine ratio and there is no right or wrong whatsoever, but there could be a woman who feels very dominant in her masculine aspects and, um, and her feminine aspects, you know?
[00:13:18] Taking the backseat. Whereas another woman could feel very dominant in her feminine qualities and her masculine is really taking a back seat. Now, there again, there is no right or wrong either way. Uh, Where are your ratio falls? Like for example, you may be 70% feminine and 30% masculine, or you might be 60% feminine and 40% masculine as an example.
[00:13:46] Um, it really doesn't matter what your ratio turns out to be. I personally, actually, my ratio is 50 50, uh, remarkably enough. And there are many people who do have this, this balance of [00:14:00] the ratio. However, It goes deeper than that. And this is going to answer your question, I believe. So how will, you know, you are imbalance and either is really by being aware of and examining your behavior and your reaction or triggers to certain circumstances.
[00:14:23] In addition to how it is that you are. And what it is you're creating in your life. So if there are things that you are creating experiences that you're finding yourself in circumstances that are occurring, that feel out of alignment with you, that something is off something isn't fitting, right. It's not feeling right, and it's not truly what you want.
[00:14:50] This is a very good indication that something is out of place. And usually it's something that's out of balance within ourselves, [00:15:00] because everything we experience in life is truly an attraction and a creation from what we are broadcasting from within. So, yes, you're the answer to your question is yes, there is room for a very strong, powerful female to do, be large and in charge in her business.
[00:15:21] Yes. Absolutely. And there is room for that soft, empathetic, nurturing, feminine, uh, business owner to also be empowered. And large and in charge in their business in a different way, right. There's room for all of it. My work that I do is to help my clients identify what is standing out of balance. What is out of alignment and what is showing up.
[00:15:50] That's giving us information to bring that into balance. And often it has a lot to do. With healing that is, um, that [00:16:00] is needed from deep seated, you know, childhood wounds, where, where there, the individual has come out of childhood. Um, You know, not having all of their needs met, um, on a fundamental level in terms of being unconditionally loved by their mother and unconditionally championed by their father.
[00:16:26] I wrote an article about this recently, and I go into more specifics about that. Um, but yeah. Truly the imbalances of our inner king and our inner queen. You could call it our inner child, our inner girl, our inner boy really do root for him. The experiences we have when we are young and impressionable and we're, you know, we're learning from the environment that we're in.
[00:16:53] So it really depends on what we were given, what we weren't given. And as we come into adulthood, [00:17:00] This is where we start to see. And, you know, as we come into adulthood as business owners, as innovators, as creators, and we have these visions and we have these passions and we want to go after, you know, what it is that we want to create and the, you know, connecting with your purpose and, um, You know, being driven by a ripple effect, being driven by, you know, wanting to create change in the world, um, in a positive way, whatever that may be often.
[00:17:30] As a business owner, it's very common to come, you know, very up close and personal with your limitations, your limiting beliefs, um, your, whatever it is. That's holding you back as self minimizing self-sabotaging behaviors, um, and patterns that all root from those formidable years. So I'm really passionate about.
[00:17:58] Lifting up and [00:18:00] inspiring and, and giving women the tools to overcome and break through so that they can be that leader so that they can fulfill their vision. Because so often I find women pack it up and pack it in when the going gets tough because they don't have the support and they don't understand what's going on there.
[00:18:23] They're motivated and inspired and they're taking action to a certain point. And then it's like the brakes come on. And they're like, wait a second. I don't know if I can go any further. I think I'm going to go back to the job back to the nine to five and then their vision. To the wayside and it's, it's heartbreaking because we need leaders and we need change makers and we need positive change and humanity as a whole is ready, is ready to rise is ready to ascend.
[00:18:57] And it's time. This is the era for the [00:19:00] divine feminine for the feminine leader to step up and step in and really take this. You know, be the beacon and take the torch and, and like the way so that we can bring as a whole, our experienced from a very patriarchal society, not swinging the pendulum over into a matriarchal society, but so that we can come into balance.
[00:19:26] And even if the pendulum rocks and wobbles here and there, that ultimately we're living in a much more harmonious exists.
[00:19:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:19:37] That's so fascinating. And it's interesting that you mentioned the pendulum. If, if we look at a pendulum swing and we go from patriarchy, we can't immediately go to balance. That's not how a pendulum would work.
[00:19:49] Right. It would be the physics would necessitate that it would go pass that balance point over into say matriarchy in order to eventually even out into some sort of [00:20:00] balance. So with, within that, how do we. Uh, as, as people, as women, uh, who are interested in coming into balance, how do we navigate that? How do we navigate the setbacks?
[00:20:16] How do we navigate that pendulum swing in a way that we, it will eventually balance, even if it's not going to balance right away, or even if it, as you said, will
[00:20:24] Star Hayward: [00:20:24] wobble. Yes, absolutely. So it all starts with them. Right. So just like I was mentioning before, everything that we're experiencing outside of ourselves is a reflection of what we're creating inside of ourselves.
[00:20:41] So when we want to come into balance, when we want to yeah. Spotlight and lift women up so that they can take the stage and, you know, carve out space or for us to shine and for our qualities and our gifts and our value to really come [00:21:00] through so that we can bring balance into the world so that we can, um, Lean more into oneness and wholeness, um, together that all starts from within.
[00:21:15] And so I would say to that, uh, Zelda, that it begins with a desire, a burning desire for that woman to overcome whatever it is that's holding her back and then finding support. With that desire, opening up to receiving support, opening up to receiving the right information at the right time that she needs for the next step and, and a deep commitment.
[00:21:42] It really requires a commitment to what it is that she knows she wants and that she knows she deserves. And, and really holding, you know, holding the belief around that conviction. [00:22:00] Um, and then again, opening up and trusting and finding her way into, uh, calling in all of the support she needs. Because like I said, this is a, it's a transformational experience when we're talking about.
[00:22:18] You know, basically walking through the fire, you know, is, is how I call it walking through the fire and burning these aspects of the self down so that you can rise as a Phoenix once again. And you know, we've all been, if you've lived long enough, chances are you've walked through the fire a few times and you're going to walk through the fire again, it's an ongoing process, but there is a time.
[00:22:46] And, and a place where, where a person has, has, um, held back and played small enough and they're done. And that, that moment in time is, [00:23:00] is so crux. That moment in time is crucial. And it's at that moment, that that person, that woman has every reason to open up, to receive everything she needs to help her.
[00:23:15] You know, see her through to the other side so that she can become who she needs to be to be that empowered leader, um, and fulfill her soul's purpose.
[00:23:28] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:23:28] I'm taking it all in for a second. That was, uh, that was a lot of really fascinating information. And it feels to me a little bit like, like there's a leapfrog effect here.
[00:23:42] Like we. We have to get to that point. As someone who's decided to make these changes, you have to get to the point where you're, you know, you make the decision and then you're ready to, but for a long time, especially a woman who. As you said, if you live long enough, [00:24:00] you've probably gone through the fire, but you've also probably, you know, been passed over for promotions.
[00:24:06] You've also probably had sexism directed at you. You've all seen, you know, things have happened to just about all women in, in that way. So how do, how do we get to that point? Do you have any suggestions? And if you do, what are they. To building that awareness that you might want to change before we even get to the point where we're, I'm going to call star and get business coaching.
[00:24:28] How do you get to the point where you build the awareness that it might even be something you need?
[00:24:33] Star Hayward: [00:24:33] It begins by understanding that in our life, you know, back to this polarity, this dual reality that we're living in. We, we are being shown what it is that we want and what we don't want on a daily basis by way of our emotional, mental, um, and nervous system, you know, [00:25:00] our by way of our physiology, you know what?
[00:25:03] We like lights us up and it feels good. What we don't like. Doesn't feel good. Right. So, so it's understanding. Okay. That felt good. That didn't feel good. I want to feel good. I w because that is my natural, you know, birthright is to feel good and understanding. Okay. What, what is happening here and what it, what is what life is showing me on a daily basis is an opportunity.
[00:25:32] It's an opportunity for me to curate what my personal preferences are. And as I identify what my personal preferences are, then I can lean more into those. And it's like, It's like following the crumbs on the trail. Right. And I would say in addition to that, um, you know, increasing your awareness for everyone, who's listening to this, um, is too.
[00:26:00] [00:25:59] Open up and find your way into surrounding yourself in the environment of people who lift you up, surround yourself around people who make you feel good, who are inspiring to you. You know, I would say if you're the smartest person in the room you're in the wrong, right? Sure. For sure. Yes. And so it's with that desire.
[00:26:27] Behind the desire. There, there is, there is a commitment there, right? There's a desire. But that, that, that, um, I believe that everyone has the ability to commit to their dreams. Everyone has the ability, but then to overcome the hurdles of where the fear set. That is really the work that each of us has to do in order to create and to cultivate anything that we've never done before.
[00:26:57] Anything that you've never done before [00:27:00] requires you to stretch outside of your comfort zone, because that's where change occurs. That's where change occurs. So, um, to answer your question, I would say two. You know, keep paying attention, keep paying attention. And if you are in experiences that are, you know, feeling, um, oppressive to you and violating to you, then this is information.
[00:27:30] This is information. You are out of alignment with what it is that you truly desire and you're the true essence of your being quite honestly. And so then with that information, one can take that in and say, okay, What kind of change do I need to make, and then finding the courage to make that change. And that's why a supportive community is so important because when you surround yourself around the [00:28:00] people who are making those changes or who have made those changes, you need that inspiration and it's it's reinforcement, right?
[00:28:09] It's we learn by repetition. So we want to put ourselves into the environment where. Our bodies and our minds and our spirits and our souls, our hearts are being filled with what it is that we want. I call it, you know, healthy body nutrition, healthy mind nutrition. So, um, so again, if anyone is finding themselves in a position in their lives, uh, where they don't feel respected on the level that they want to be, it is time to start respecting yourself.
[00:28:45] And time to get fierce about that time to get, uh, radical about accepting yourself first and starting to learn how it is that you can love yourself more and more day [00:29:00] by day. And I promise you, you know, what? We focus on grows, what we focus on grows and. So everything that we create in our lives has everything to do what we're focusing on.
[00:29:12] So if you want change for the better, then you start focusing on what it is that you want to change. And I always say the best place to start, and this is what I do for myself every single day is I make feeling good. The most important thing am I life? Feeling good. So when I catch myself thinking a thought that doesn't feel good, I stop.
[00:29:32] And I replace it with one that does, when I find myself taking an action that doesn't feel good. I stopped with my awareness and I replace it with something that feels good. If I'm thinking about contemplating, maybe spending time with somebody that I actually don't really want to spend time with. I stop and I draw my boundary for myself.
[00:29:55] And then communicate respectfully that this is not what I desire [00:30:00] at this time in my life. Right? So you, you have, you have got to start valuing yourself more and, you know, back to the external power, you know, when, when we reach outside of ourselves for love, when we reach outside of ourselves to feel empowered, right.
[00:30:18] That that's not, that's not authentic. It's not going to be authentic because the only person that is going to care more about you, how you feel and your dreams is you. And so you have every reason to be the become that person that believes in yourself. And that cares about how you feel and cares about your dreams more than anyone else.
[00:30:45] More than anyone else. And this is this enters into radical self-responsibility. Which I, which is a part of, you know, what I fold into my transformative process is teaching [00:31:00] women how to become radically responsible for the life that they're creating by way of who they are being, who they are choosing to be in their life, the identity that they are choosing to body embody.
[00:31:12] So are, are they choosing to embody scarcity or are they choosing to embody abundance? And, um, and it's pretty, um, clear which one it is. And when we identify that, then we go to work. When we start, um, making the changes and setting the tools and practices into place in order to transition from the scarcity identity, into the abundant identity.
[00:31:41] And that is where you. Cultivate that internal power, that inner power, that divine power from within,
[00:31:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:31:55] sorry, I'm sorry. I'm processing.
[00:31:57] Star Hayward: [00:31:57] I know this is very, very [00:32:00] deep. It's
[00:32:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:32:00] very deep. And, and, and yet on some level it's. It's funny because there's a part of me that's going well, of course. Right. And yet it's not something we, we think about. It's not something we, we give ourselves the opportunity to spend a lot of time on because people have to pay the bills and make sure there's food on the table and clean, you know, clean the kitchen sink or whatever.
[00:32:29] So, so this seems like it's almost a part of, this has to be. Integrated, if you will, into, as you said, your day-to-day life, but something you said very early on that I think sort of ties into this beautifully is you set the words, purpose led, and I, I wonder how does a purpose led life or a purpose led business?
[00:33:01] [00:33:00] Combined with, or integrate with this, this feeling of internal power. How, where do those meet and how can a woman use that fire in order to start or grow a business? That's going to have that purpose behind it.
[00:33:20] Star Hayward: [00:33:20] Another amazing, powerful question. I love this conversation. Yes. Um, so. When, when you feel that calling inside of you, it does not go away.
[00:33:35] Do you know what I mean? I know, you know what I mean? Because you are living your purpose led life. And, and there's a moment when, when that light bulb goes off, there's a moment for everyone when that voice speaks up inside of you. Now, when you answer the call is up to you. And [00:34:00] sometimes it takes a long time for people to answer that call because they have created their life to fit within a set of expectations that they have upon themselves that other people have put upon themselves, you know, wanting to, um, and feeling the need to fulfill this picture.
[00:34:22] That is what society dictates. Looks like success and achievement, right. And reward. And so often women find themselves feeling very empty and men too. But we're speaking about women here, um, find themselves very empty because they went after. All of these things and setting all of the, you know, the career success, becoming the mother, doing, you know, being, get their health and fitness and all of these things.
[00:34:53] And I work with women like this. So I'm speaking from my own professional experience [00:35:00] where they've climbed the ladder. They've achieved amazing success in their careers, and they feel absolutely empty inside. And they start to question why I don't get it. I is it that I feel so empty. I have all of this I've achieved so much and I have all of this.
[00:35:19] And yet I feel like I'm just a shell of a person and I don't feel connected within myself. And it's in that moment, often, it, you know, it's different for everybody, but it often takes coming to a place of, again, being in the experience of a profound experience of what you don't want. To wake up to what it is that you do want, and when you're ready, that voice will speak up.
[00:35:49] And when that voice speaks up inside of you and it says, allow your purpose is calling again. It just won't ever [00:36:00] go away. It. I know this, I know this. And, um, and so then it's, that is the opportunity. That's the invitation. The invitation to say, okay, okay. I get it. I'm here for a reason. I'm supposed to be doing something else now, crap.
[00:36:18] I've got to figure out what that is like. Oh no. Now I have a really big problem on my hands because not only, you know, is it a deep discovery and self exploration for, for many people? Some people comes very easily. It's like, oh yeah, that was right before me all, all along like, oh, let's do this. And then for others, it's like, oh no, I got to figure this out.
[00:36:42] I've got to find out. And no matter what the process is of becoming connected to your purposes, something that I actually help women do is to really excavate and find out what that soul expertise really is. And then we layer on all of the. Um, [00:37:00] the skills and training and, um, skillsets and knowledge and attributes that they've acquired along the way.
[00:37:08] But, um, no matter what the process is or how long it takes for you to get there, the invitation to step into a purpose led life truly is. An invitation to enroll in Ascension school. Like I, you know, and I, and I think, you know what I mean, too, because in order to really truly fulfill your purpose, again, it will, it will bring you face to face with your, all of your fears, all of your doubts, your limiting beliefs, and all of the layers that you adopted that had you creating your life.
[00:37:50] Well filling the expectations of others, or maybe it was your own that didn't, didn't really match. And wasn't really in alignment with you. You have to [00:38:00] then figure out how to peel all those layers and start to find a new perspective and a way to put a new meaning on things so that you can start the shift and let go of.
[00:38:15] Um, the perspectives and, you know, maybe some of the values that don't serve you and where it is that you want to go. And that is all part of the becoming who you need to be in order to tap into that inner power to find that inner strength to step into your purpose level. Um, so yeah, answering the call of your purpose, um, The byproduct of that in order to truly answer that call and fulfill that vision, uh, the by-product is that Ascension school, which will take you through a, quite a transformative journey [00:39:00] and into your, into your path.
[00:39:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:39:03] Wow. That was amazing. So I could keep you here for the next six hours and we can chat, but I know, I know you have a day to get to, and I, and I want to thank you so much for being here. I have just a couple more. Questions, if you don't mind. And I have one last one that is, uh, that is a question I ask everybody who comes on the show, but we'll get to that in a second.
[00:39:28] You said something that I, that I think is really interesting. You said that that self-love and, and being heart-centered being centered on your own heart can lead to that purpose led business. And I'm wondering how, how does someone who. Hasn't gotten to that point or maybe has gotten to that point, how do they take the next step?
[00:39:55] What is the step that will allow them to innovate? What is the step that will allow them to [00:40:00] make those, those changes? Maybe even on a global scale, what does someone like that need to do?
[00:40:06] Star Hayward: [00:40:06] Great question. Um, yes. So as you were pointing to, there are some people who wake up to what their calling is, and then they.
[00:40:17] You know, they embrace the path to get there and then others. Are you, it's almost like a reverse engineer. They need to embrace the path and then they fail. They get to their calling, but then there's probably going to be more or work on the other side. So is Y you know, with, with my, with my, um, business, it's called ascending the heart academy.
[00:40:41] And, um, and what I have created and ascending heart academy is the. Inner and the outer, uh, transformative journey so that, um, I meet each and every person where they are at along the way. So if we need to start with [00:41:00] heart work, if we need to start with the self love. And getting deeply connected and the, you know, deep, you know, exploration of the self that's, where we began.
[00:41:12] If I'm working with someone, who's like, I already have a business, I'm thriving in my business. It's going great. I'm ready to go to the next level. Um, but I, um, you know, shaking in my boots. I don't know how I'm going to do it. I don't know how I'm going to manage a team. I don't know how I'm going to be the leader.
[00:41:29] Then we go to. Um, starting there as well. So it's a very customized, very exclusive, um, wa very customized and exclusive program that I offer. Um, so I hope that answers your question that, yeah, it's, it's essentially, um, it doesn't really matter where you are. It just matters where, you know, you want to go and it begins with just asking the question, who
[00:41:59] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:41:59] am [00:42:00] I Pema Chodron?
[00:42:02] Who's a Tibetan Buddhist nun wrote a book called start where you are. And I, it sounds like you are thinking along the same lines as, as she is. Uh, so I, first of all, star, I want to thank you so much for being on the show. As I said, For another six hours, but I, but I realized that that I need to curtail my curiosity a little bit.
[00:42:23] Uh, and, and perhaps sometime you'll come back and we'll, we'll delve even deeper, deeper, deeper, see, I thought star and then the big dipper. And then I was, and then I, and then I was off to the races. So, uh, so would you mind if somebody says, I need to know more about star Hayward, how would somebody.
[00:42:42] Finding you, where, where can you be found online your website? If you could just say them, I'll put them in the show notes, but I'd love it. If you'd say them because people learn.
[00:42:51] Star Hayward: [00:42:51] Sure. Absolutely. So my website is ascending heart academy.com. My email address is [00:43:00] star@ascendingheartacademy.com. You're welcome to follow me or DM me on Facebook, uh, which I am star Hayward on Facebook and on Instagram at star Hayward coaching.
[00:43:13] I'm also out spar Hayward on club. And I co host rooms weekly, multiple rooms throughout the week. Um, you can also find me as an, uh, an executive contributor to brains magazine. In addition to this, as at global network. Um, yeah, I think that pretty much covers it.
[00:43:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:35] All right. Cool. Thank you that way. If somebody wants to find you, they have adequate ways of doing so.
[00:43:42] So here's my last question. And as I said, it's one, I ask everyone that comes on the show. It's a little silly, but I find that it yields some poignant answers. And here it is, if you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say?
[00:44:05] [00:44:00] Star Hayward: [00:44:05] You are pure love.
[00:44:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:44:09] I love that. That's wonder what a, what a delight. Thank you so much for that. It's always interesting to me to see how people answer it and almost always it's, it's just poignant. It's so it's powerful and deep, even though the question itself is rather silly star, once again. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:44:26] I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the innovative mindset podcast.
[00:44:30] Star Hayward: [00:44:30] It was a pleasure and an honor as all that. Thank you so much. I look forward to future conversations together. Me too. Maybe
[00:44:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:44:37] we'll meet up on clubhouse.
[00:44:39] Star Hayward: [00:44:39] Uh,
[00:44:41] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:44:41] that'd be great. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I am here to remind you to.
[00:44:47] Right. And review the show. If you're liking what you're hearing, let me know what you're thinking and also to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot. See you next time.
[00:45:00] [00:45:00] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you. On patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[00:45:18] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.
*Thanks for supporting the podcast. If you purchase brain.fm through the link above, please note, I will receive some compensation.

Business Advisor, Entrepreneur, Chris Niemeyer

Business Advisor, Crypto Aficionado, Husband, and Father, Chris Niemeyer On How to Forge Your Business Life So You Can Prioritize Your Goals
Chris Niemeyer helps business owners design a business lifestyle they love by working smarter, not harder. As a business advisor and consultant, Chris’ FREEDOM Business System™ helps you work in your sweet spot so you work less, make more - and spend more time with your loved ones.
For years Chris ran his first multi-million dollar company mostly alone. When he became a father, he systematized, hired, and raised up a team to run his business so he could be more engaged at home and travel with his family. Nowadays you’ll find him coaching and consulting other entrepreneurs on how to work smarter, not harder by systematizing your business. He’s a family man to the core and is likely with his wife and 4 young kids at a beach in Florida or coaching their sports activities when not traveling the world together.
I believe we were all created for a purpose and need to get realigned to that. I help people overcome the obstacles that get them stuck so they can work in their sweet spot and live an extraordinary lifestyle.
This show is about talking with purpose-driven people.
Connect with Chris
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisniemeyer
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niemeyerchris
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/niemeyerchris
Website: www.ChrisNiemeyer.com
 
Episode Transcript
Chris Niemeyer
[00:00:00] Chris Niemeyer: [00:00:00] One thing that I I'll even tell clients or friends that asked me a similar question about this is, you know, they say, boy, it's just seems so risky to go on your own to, to be an entrepreneur. And, you know, there's so much risk involved and that could be true on one hand, but I still, you know what, it's also kind of risky to stay in a job that maybe you don't love and really at the end of the day, Your employer calls the shots.
[00:00:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:30] Hi, welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. You get my conversations with peak performing thought leaders, creatives, and entrepreneurs. We explore how you can innovate through creativity, compassion, and collaboration. I believe that innovation combined with compassion and creative thinking can save the world and I aim to bring you ways.
[00:00:52] You can do it too. If you're enjoying the show, I'd be super grateful. If you could support it by buying me a cup of coffee, you can buy [00:01:00] me a cup of@buymeacoffee.com slash Izolda tea. And now let's get on with the show.
[00:01:15] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host. Izolda Trakhtenberg. I am so happy that you're here and I'm really honored and happy to have this gentleman here on the show today. And there are myriad reasons. One of which is we've both been students in the same. Classes. So you're going to hear us probably giggle about certain things.
[00:01:34] Might Kim Lauren Davis, if you're listening, you know, we're talking about you, Chris Niemeyer helps business owners design a business lifestyle. They love by working smarter, not harder as a business advisor and consultant Chris Chris's freedom business system. You know, I love that already helps you work in your sweet spot.
[00:01:53] So you work less, make more and spend more time with your lover. For years, Chris ran his multi [00:02:00] check this out. His first multimillion dollar company, mostly alone. When he became a father, he systematized hired and raised up a team to run his business. So he could be more engaged at home and travel with his family.
[00:02:12] Nowadays, you're going to find him coaching and consulting other entrepreneurs, how to work smarter, not harder by systematizing your brain. I need all the help I can get with that. So I'm really excited to talk to Chris about it. Chris is a family man to the core and is likely with his wife and four young kids at a beach in Florida or coaching their sports activities when not traveling the world together.
[00:02:32] Wow. Chris, thank you so much for being here.
[00:02:34]Chris Niemeyer: [00:02:34] . Izolda thank you. It is a pleasure. You have some amazing guests and I have listened. You have. A great communicator and interviewer. So I'm just excited to be here. Thank you again for the opportunity. Oh, it's
[00:02:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:02:46] my pleasure. My pleasure. I appreciate your kind words.
[00:02:49] That's very sweet. I, I wanna just, I want to jump into something that you said. And I adore it. You said that you believe that we were [00:03:00] all created for a purpose and we need to get realigned to that. I would love to hear from you what you mean. First of all, we were all created for a purpose. And what purpose would that be?
[00:03:10] Is it individual or is it something that's, that's bigger than one individual person and how do we get realigned to our purpose? What's the process someone would go through to, to be able to do that.
[00:03:24] Chris Niemeyer: [00:03:24] Yeah, great question. Well, and, and I, I, I'm going to speak through and kind of talk through, I guess my, uh, my, my lens of faith.
[00:03:30] So I just believe that there's a greater purpose that we all have. And, um, and so I think that regardless of your, your belief system or whatever, we're here for a reason, and there's those kind of three existential questions that I'd like to talk about. Who am I, why am I here? And where am I going? And I think sitting with those questions actually frequently, you know, whether that's on a, an annual basis, if you're kind of a planner and it's like, okay, turn of the turn of the calendar year is about to happen.
[00:03:58] What did I learn this year? You know, what, what am I [00:04:00] good at? What am I interested in it? And how can I apply that toward a purpose here on this earth to serve others. So I've, I've just been able to. Take action on that over the years. And, and let me tell you, and then we can talk about a story about this, but it's not always been pretty and I've.
[00:04:17] Misaligned in seasons two and had to kind of get back into that. So, uh, I'm, I'm a huge fan of just finding your purpose and, and living that out.
[00:04:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:04:29] I'm taking all that in for a second. It's so interesting to hear you say that you're a fan of finding your purpose and living it out because I know that there are a lot of people out there who, uh, sort of, they, they, they, they live their lives to do their work.
[00:04:45] And they perhaps watch jeopardy and this is not insulting jeopardy. Right? I love jeopardy. But, but the point is that it sounds to me like you're talking something that, that is a calling that's bigger than the day-to-day stuff of life. And I'm wondering [00:05:00] what the process is. What is, what is that, that you go.
[00:05:04] Uh, is it a dissatisfaction like, oh, I, I, I don't want to watch jeopardy tonight instead. I want to go out and change the world or whatever. What happens to someone when they get to that place of either doing that assessment like you do, or finding that they're perhaps dissatisfied with their status quo and want to change it?
[00:05:22] What would you expect someone to be going through at that moment?
[00:05:27] Chris Niemeyer: [00:05:27] Well, I guess if I may then let me just share it a personal experience. Probably your listeners here and others that have these kinds of stories. And sometimes frankly, we don't want to talk about them, but, um, I've just. Okay, to be more open about it.
[00:05:41] So my first career back in my early twenties of, of all things was in the political world, which is frankly, in our political climate, embarrassing to say, but, but you know, at an early age I got, I got thrown into, uh, leading, uh, the largest political action committee in Southern California. [00:06:00] And so I was around all these, you know, movers and shakers and big business people and had access to, you know, congressmen and all this stuff.
[00:06:07] As an, as an early 20 something, it was a fascinating experience. And I learned a little bit about that whole world for a few years there, but it was also never ending. It was one of those. Do you remember the Blackberry w seven connected to the Blackberry? Oh, yes. There'll be iPhone today, but, uh, uh, yeah, these are early years, so.
[00:06:29] It, it was just this kind of frenetic pace. You know, we, we were identifying candidates to run for office fundraising for them doing some lobbying. It was a never ending cycle. And I just remember this, this particular evening. And it's just one that you'll never forget, right. Is I'm just considering just the pace of life, by the way.
[00:06:48] My, we had gotten married early on as a couple. And so my wife had gone back to school and we were just living this fast paced life and. There was this particular evening where I'm just [00:07:00] driving home. This is from downtown San Diego. You know, city skyline is in the background, uh, in my rear view mirror.
[00:07:07] And I'm driving up, uh, north, north San Diego, right near the Miramar air force base. There's these fighter jets only as, you know, brave pilots going by is where they filmed part of top gun. Right. And I'm just thinking about man, what it must be like to be one of them. And they're just, they're they're bravery and, and no limits and all this stuff.
[00:07:25] And I'm reflecting on just I'm feeling kind of boxed in and, and running ragged, you know, and, and just am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing? And a song comes on the radio. I'm listening to the radio song comes on the radio and it's by a band called Switchfoot and it's. It's lyrics starts singing out over the radio, says, this is your life.
[00:07:46] Are you who you want to be? This is your life. Is it everything you dreamed it would be? And, uh, you know, I, I don't know how God speaks to people, but sometimes maybe it's in different ways. He's spoken through donkeys before. To me, it was, he was [00:08:00] speaking through the radio that day. And, and I think, I just remember pondering those words and then starting to just literally cry out.
[00:08:09] This is not the life I meant to live. This, this is not in alignment with who I am and my values. Um, I found myself, you know, compromised in certain situations in that political world. And I literally had to pull over to the side of the road because I had to wipe the tears from my eyes. Cause I couldn't see.
[00:08:26] And it was that evening when I waited for my wife to get home. That I said, you know, honey things have got to change. We've got to get back to, we have misaligned. I have misaligned my life and let's get back to what we're supposed to do and who we are. And literally that night as all of this is when we started this kind of process on a back of a napkin, we started listing out the things, what are we interested in?
[00:08:51] You know, what do we start. What, what do we, you know, decent good at? Where do we want to go? What, what, what, what just motivates us and fuels us. And that was the [00:09:00] start of my first kind of entrepreneurial journey, again, just realigning. So I think there's people that have those stories where they either hit rock bottom, or they realize that.
[00:09:09] I watched too many Jeopardy's in your example, I need to get off the couch and do something.
[00:09:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:09:15] Yeah. It, it is interesting that what you just said, that you, that you went okay, what, what, what am I good at? What do I, what do I love? What, what are the things that bring me joy? And it took a huge amount of self-awareness I think, to be able to do that, that you went, that you'd realize something had to change, but then you had the.
[00:09:36] Okay, let me step back and figure out what that is. And so when you did that, when you were in that space and you and your wife, and, and it's wonderful that she was there with you, you know, that she, that she supported these, these changes that you wanted to make. What was the next step? How did you go from, I work in politics and I'm not happy to the Chris I'm [00:10:00] talking to today who is, seems to be super happy.
[00:10:03] And, and, and you're doing your own entrepreneurial journey all the way to today. How did that happen?
[00:10:12] Chris Niemeyer: [00:10:12] Yeah. So literally taking that first list that we created, uh, along alongside that list, we had a values list and kind of what we anticipated for the next five years of our life as well. So really kind of vision casting too, and going from a, you know, a young, young, married couple to, Hey, we want to have kids.
[00:10:29] And if we're one of kids and raise these kids intentionally and well, What's that going to look like and what is our, our time availability with them. So we, we outlined, I want to have a, a business that if she chooses to, she can stay home and raise the kids. And, and so I, I began literally that next week approaching some of my mentors and saying, Hey, I'm making a pretty big decision here, but I'm gonna leave this political world.
[00:10:54] And, and what are your thoughts? And a few of them in the same week gave various [00:11:00] similar recommendations. And they said, Chris, you know, you, you're the kind of guy that you need to own and operate your own company. You need to find out what it is. You're passionate about. What is you're good at? So taking that list that we did and, and something bubbled to the top at that point in our lives.
[00:11:17] This was back in 2006. And, uh, my wife had worked for travel companies in the past. So she was engaged with that. We love to travel. We also had background in, in missions and kind of giving back to the community and the world. And so missions and travel. We were married together and took my business experience and kind of her marketing and that awareness of that area.
[00:11:37] And that was our first business. It was mission travel. We still own it to this day. Um, just the travel coordination, all that comes with these amazing trips that people take around the world to make the world a better place to, to give back. And so that was the foundation of our journey and it was one where, Hey, it's a home-based business.
[00:11:55] I'm working from my laptop. I can choose, you know, when I want to take it. [00:12:00] Break to play with the kids or, or not. And, and, and so that was for us kind of how we started that next step.
[00:12:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:12:07] I love that you're location independent. That's really cool. And it's, I feel like I'm dancing around a question that I want to ask, and I'm not quite sure how to ask it.
[00:12:18] You went from, you went from being someone who had a job who was working for others too. Too, you know, you shifted to having your own business. What, what, what was that like? What was the, what was, you know, this is the innovative mindset. How did you innovate? What did you do after the, the business that you've the first business that you started to get you okay with it?
[00:12:43] Because the thing that concerned. Honestly is that there are a lot of people who think that they could be entrepreneurs, but actually they might not be well suited for it. Or there are a lot of people who are well-suited to be entrepreneurs, but they are staying sort of stuck in [00:13:00] a job because they might be nervous or scared.
[00:13:03] How do you tell what is the, the best way for your mindset to shift in order to be able to do what you've done?
[00:13:15] Chris Niemeyer: [00:13:15] Yeah. Great, great question. And some complexities there too, but, um, you know, one thing that I I'll even tell, tell clients or friends that asked me similar question about this is, you know, they say it's point it's just seems so risky to go on your own, to, to be an entrepreneur.
[00:13:31] And you know, that there's so much risk involved. And that could be true on one hand. Um, but I say, you know what, it's also kind of risky to stay in a job that maybe you don't love. Really at the end of the day, your employer calls the shots, your employer or your market, or your industry is the one that is deciding, well, you have a job or not, to me, that's risky because you don't have control.
[00:13:58] You don't have the power to [00:14:00] make and pivot when, uh, an industry shifts or something happens as an entrepreneur. We have that ability and that maneuverability to. Tick and tack and Zig and zag. Right. And so I think there's, there's that awareness that it's like, well, I feel comfortable and, and safe in this job, but am I really, and I think that's a big step to just have some people understand is entrepreneurship while it might sound risky.
[00:14:29] For me, it's pretty exhilarating because you have, you have quite a bit of control over how things go and, and, um, I think that's a big mindset shift mindset shift that people, uh, need need to do.
[00:14:41] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:14:41] Hmm, there's something in. So, so fascinating about that. I don't know if you know who Tom Peters is. He's he's, uh, an author he wrote in, in search of excellence.
[00:14:53] He's sort of a leadership guru. One of the things that he says is that the leader's job is [00:15:00] to support the people they're leading so that they can shine. And so if you're an entrepreneur and you are. And you're the business, the owner of the business. How do you reconcile this notion that you just, that you just stated about, about, you know, you, you have a lot of control too, I guess, hiring or developing the team that will help the business, but also that you can support so that they shine.
[00:15:36] Does that. Th I, I hope that that question makes any sort of sense because it's a complicated one.
[00:15:43] Chris Niemeyer: [00:15:43] Yeah, no, it is. And there's, there's a lot to unpack there. I think, um, you know, predominantly. In our culture, you know, perhaps, and maybe worldwide, there are just a lot of unsatisfied employees because they don't have the right kind of leaders, whether that's the [00:16:00] manager or the CEO or the C-suite folks, a lot of people are, they're just punching a clock.
[00:16:04] And so they're not in satisfaction or alignment with their job, but there are those great exceptions of leaders who say, let's, let's make sure that everyone here feels they've got a purpose. They've got a role, you know, Starting as an entrepreneur, especially as, as a, as a solo preneur to, to start with like a lot of us, we're the ones wearing all those hats, right?
[00:16:26] We're we're the salesperson, we're the founder. We're the chief marketing officer. We're the finance bookkeeper. We're, you know, janitor, whatever it is. And as I explained to my coach in class, A lot of those hats are uncomfortable. A lot of those hats, frankly, don't fit because you're supposed to be wearing maybe one, maybe two hats roles in general.
[00:16:47] And there's other great people that fit those other roles with their own abilities and skillsets. And so it's your job as, as the leader, as the entrepreneur to bring in those right people. And I got [00:17:00] to that point, you know, years after mission travel, when I was still a preneur who was busy doing that at all, and then realized like, you know what, in order to.
[00:17:09] Scale this and keep, I keep my sanity, frankly. Um, I needed to hire the right people who are gifted, talented, and motivated in those areas. Does that help answer that question? It
[00:17:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:17:22] does. It's just, you know, like I follow Gary Vaynerchuk, I follow Tim Ferris and the things that they say are very similar to what you just said, that you have to hire the right people.
[00:17:35] And Gary Vaynerchuk goes, go so far as to say, you know, hire. And fire fast. Right? So, so that if it's not the right person, uh, then, then no harm, no foul. You've had your 90 days you're out. And that sounds kind of harsh, but that's kind of, it looks like what he does or what he used to do. I don't know if that's what he does still with VaynerMedia.
[00:17:56] So, so what is your thought on that, on that [00:18:00] notion? How do you find. The right people so that you can eventually sort of delegate and systematize your business so that you can play to your strengths.
[00:18:11] Chris Niemeyer: [00:18:11] Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of common, common answers there in terms of making sure that there's an alignment with various tests or assessments or programs that, you know, to kind of screen and vet employees.
[00:18:22] And I think that those are good. And I use, I use a lot of those, you know, everything from. Myers-Briggs and disks and all those kinds of assessments that we probably hear about in the work workforce. Um, but then, you know, I have a lot of things just in the interview process too, where it's like, tell me what you would do in this situation, you know, and just give them a lot of like this open-ended questions to really kind of understand their mindset, who they're, who they are, who they're coming from.
[00:18:47] Um, you know, they're, they're joining you in, in a different culture too. And so you need to make sure that the culture is a good fit. You know, with my travel company, that's all worked from home. I [00:19:00] have employees that are scattered across the country. So I need to make sure that if you're coming from a, a regular brick and mortar retail store down the street, that you're going to be comfortable working really kind of isolated.
[00:19:13] Um, you know, we've got. Chat features and video and all that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, you're, you're kind of isolated and how are you with your time? And so just asking some of those questions about some of those things, to ensure that it is a good fit, um, you know, resumes, assessments that all helps, but sometimes just those really qualified open-ended questions can spur some dialogue and, and maybe raise some flags as well.
[00:19:39] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:19:39] Yeah, I can, I can, I can imagine that notion of. Sort of disseminating, figuring out who, who is right for a role and who might not be right. Would be, would be, you know, it is important. And it's also, it seems to me that your. Uh, sort of [00:20:00] perspective and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm just sort of putting words in your mouth, but your, your perspective seems to be that you can't do it all and you shouldn't do it all right.
[00:20:08] In, in, in, in, in building or, or running your business. So if that's the case, If you can't do it all, how do you get to that mindset shift? We're going to be talking about shifts a lot, I guess. How do you get to that mindset shift that makes you go okay. I, for me personally, I I'm just accounting, accounting.
[00:20:29] I, I want to run away screaming every time I have to do it. So, so if that's the case, how do I, as, as the, as the, um, I'll be the test subject here. How do I do that? How do I let go of the, of the need to do it all? A and how do I, uh, how do I assess someone in something I'm not good at? Like, if I were to hire an accountant and I'm not good at it, how, how do you know as a leader?
[00:20:58] How do you know if you're not good at the [00:21:00] thing that you're trying to hire for? What do you need to do in order to make sure that you will find the right people.
[00:21:08] Chris Niemeyer: [00:21:08] Yeah. Great. Great question. Um, so from a mindset perspective, I think it's just understanding too, that again, back to that hat analogy of all that you're having to do and all the hats you're wearing your business, understanding, recognizing I don't have to wear them all.
[00:21:24] In fact, I shouldn't wear them all. If my business is going to grow and scale to where I want it to be. And for me to just work in my sweet spot, I've got to delegate. I've got to let other people. Do that. And that's, that's one thing. I mean, just taking a look at your business and go, if you have to show up every day, day in, day out, you know, hour by hour doing the routine maintenance tasks that you're doing in your business.
[00:21:48] I hate to tell you, but you don't really have a business. You have a job and you've got multiple jobs. All
[00:21:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:21:54] right. Many, many
[00:21:55] Chris Niemeyer: [00:21:55] hats, right. Hats. Yes. And so you've got to understand that. [00:22:00] If I want to make this a business, things need to change. And, um, gosh, if we have time in another story that was really foundational for my business to, to pivot and to shift in a big way, was that realization, um, cause I mentioned, you know, we start our business without kids and, and then now we have.
[00:22:18] Well, I remember when we got pregnant, right. My wife and I was, we were still in the business and she was like, okay, I'm pregnant. I'm having, I'm having this baby. This business is your baby. Now I'm running it. You know? And I just remember being so excited to be a dad for the first time. You know, we'd waited several years to have kids and, and just eager to, to meet him, to bond with him.
[00:22:40] And so when that first baby came, I mean, I was pretty, pretty darn involved. I mean, really to like the point. You know, I roll here because it was like, you know, the, the baby would get up in the middle of night and cry and need to be fed. And I'm like, you know, flipping the light on honey. I'll, I'll get him from the crib and I'll bring him to you and I'll rub your back and we'll fight over who gets to do the diapers and all that [00:23:00] stuff.
[00:23:00] And, and I really felt a close bond, you know, with him at that time. Well, fast forward a couple of years later, okay. Our business had grown substantially. We had, we had scaled a bit more, but I was still. Really wearing too many hats. I was doing too many of those roles, bookkeeping, like you just said, I was still doing bookkeeping at the time and just kind of going, oh my gosh, if I'm not at my desk or on the phone, like business, isn't getting done.
[00:23:28] Well, sun number two comes around and, and I'm just busy and I, I, I need the sleep. And so, you know, maybe I was, I was maybe useful the first few nights or a week, but it quickly turned into. You know, eyes are closed the middle of night, honey, the baby's crying. Can you go get 'em I'm going, gonna, I'm going to roll over and go back to bed.
[00:23:53] Well, something happens and it was, it was it's rocked us to the right. Uh, two months [00:24:00] into, into his birth and I'm not feeling the bond with them because I'm not around them and doing all this stuff. Uh, my brother and sister-in-law were coming down to, to spend the weekend and get to meet Noah for the first time.
[00:24:12] And we're waiting up by the fire forum and they call in and say, Hey, you know what, we're going to be late. Just go to bed. And we'll, we'll catch up with the guys in the morning when we get there. And so we threw a few extra logs on the fire head upstairs, put Mila down in his crib. Well in the middle of the night, about one o'clock in the morning, we get this loud knock on our bedroom door and seconds later, my brother bursts in the door and says, Chris, your house is on fire.
[00:24:36] Get out. And you know, we're just bewildered. I'm not sure what's going on. And, and my sister-in-law comes in. Grabs no out of his crib meeting him for the first time. And we throw on some blankets and jackets and rushed out of the house and sure enough, our, our roof was on fire. And, you know, we call the call, the fire department.
[00:24:57] They were able to come pretty quickly and extinguish the [00:25:00] fire. Well, the next morning when we, I go back to the house to meet the fire chief and our insurance adjuster. And, and as he brings us in the house and starts assessing the damage and talking about what they've discovered, we begin walking upstairs and, uh, I'm getting goosebumps now, but just, I'll never forget that that feeling of when he flung the door open.
[00:25:24] And he's talking and we look up and there's a big gaping hole in the ceiling and you can see right to the sky. And as he's talking, I looked down and right down there is our son's crib that was crushed and with charcoal and he is describing that this is the first place that the structure fell. Wow. And I just remember being cut to the core.
[00:25:54] And going, I almost lost my son, who I didn't even feel a great bond with at that [00:26:00] time. And I remember driving back to the hotel where we're staying and just processing all that and realizing Chris, some things have to change in your business. You just have a job and multiple jobs. And so you've got to get the right people.
[00:26:17] To come in and help you out. And that was a really pivotal time for us to make some big adjustments, make some big hires. And I remember going into that hotel room and my wife didn't know any of this, the time I had to tell her a lot about that, that circumstance later. But I just remember grabbing no in my arms.
[00:26:36] It's two months old now just kissing his little bald head and going things are going to be right. Um, and, and that was just the start of a new chapter in our business, a new chapter in our life where, you know, I wanted to be a super present father. I didn't care what the business was going to do or how it was going to scale.
[00:26:55] I just wanted to be engaged and active as a, as a daddy. That was my biggest [00:27:00] role in the, in the most comfortable hat that I wanted to wear and knew that everything else would, would work itself out. So for me, that's just one of those examples stories of going. You have to get to a point where you realize those roles.
[00:27:15] Aren't going to work and you've got to find the right people to getting engaged with them. So for what it's worth, I don't know if that answers fully your question, but, uh, but that was a foundational time to have that shift in the business mindset.
[00:27:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:27:30] Oh, well you answered a thousand questions there. I don't think it was just one.
[00:27:35] Thank you so much for sharing that. And I'm so glad that that Noah and all of you were w w you know, that you were all okay. Wow. Uh, Let, I just want to honor that for a second. I'm just so glad that you ha uh, wow. I it's, you know, and it's funny because the, the notion of being purpose driven or [00:28:00] purpose led, uh, yeah.
[00:28:03] It's it's very clear to me that you, that you have that, that you are purpose-driven and, and, and work from that truth, obviously, obviously. And so, so to, to bring it back to application, to, to, to sort of being practical, how. When you had that realization, when you realize that being a daddy was the most important thing, being a dad, a husband, a family member, uh, how did you take that into your business and systematize it and make it so that you could focus the bulk of your energy on your family?
[00:28:45] Chris Niemeyer: [00:28:45] Yeah. Yeah. And I use this in, in how I lead coaching clients now, too, that are, that are entrepreneurs that want to get out of their grind. Like I was. Um, and I give this analogy that, you know, you need to take a look [00:29:00] at your business as a big skyscraper. So just pick a skyscraper from your, you know, nearest downtown and look at that building and go that building represents my business and every floor on that build.
[00:29:13] Represents a department, a function of your business. So on one level, you've got your sales and one level you've got customer service one, then we've got finance or HR or whatever it is for your business. Where do you want your suite to be? Which level, which floor, where do you want your sweet spot to be?
[00:29:31] And to understand you need to work in that, in that room. And you can take the proverbial elevator and, and, you know, go back and forth every once in a while and check in on the sales team or the marketing team or whatever, but you need to be in your sweet spot. And so just identifying that to take a look at your business from a 30,000 foot view and go, what are the key components of my business?
[00:29:53] And then practically speaking, it's looking at okay. Is still inside my head, which [00:30:00] is, is usually the case for founders and CEOs. There's so much in your head that you've never documented that you've never systematized or put a standard operating procedure in place. And so I remember literally after that whole fire experience going okay, I need to do a really much better job of documenting everything that I do in my day.
[00:30:23] And what are the. Top 10 procedures or SOP is I need to put in place. So literally that's what I did. I mean, for those next few weeks, I'm logging time I'm taking on calls or emails or bookkeeping. Getting back to that, all those things where I'm like, you know what, I need to start training people. And, and considering if I want to get a higher director of operations, if I want to hire a director of sales, what is it that I'm doing now that I can.
[00:30:52] Document and explain to them, and then they can add even more from there. So that's just a very practical thing that anyone [00:31:00] can do is in terms of document in their time and how they're spending it and then getting the systems in play.
[00:31:06] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:31:06] Mm. Yeah, I, I use something called toggle track, which allows me to.
[00:31:12] Document exactly what I'm working on because otherwise I personally, my brain, the way it works, I wouldn't know. I wouldn't remember. So I have to, I've just spent 45 minutes on X and that's that's because otherwise I, I, you know, the way, the way my brain works. So, so how do we do that? If, if, if I'm an entrepreneur and if I want to do this system systematization, wow.
[00:31:35] That's a long word. If I want to systematize again, I, and I'm not. I'm not good at it. My brain doesn't work that way or whatever it is. Do you have any, any guidance, any materials, any, anything that you would be willing to share? Uh, that, that someone would go, oh yeah. I need to know X in order to be able to do [00:32:00] Y is there anything that you can recommend, any books that you've read, anything like that, that you would be willing to share?
[00:32:07] Chris Niemeyer: [00:32:07] Yeah, let me, let me think about the book's perspective, but you know, one of the things that we, instead of just logging undocumented stuff too, is really understanding what, what are the resources that you need in terms of software or hardware, if it, whatever your business might look like, um, you know, what, what checklists do you need in your business too?
[00:32:29] To show someone and document kind of the process and procedures that you, that you go through. Um, you know, like I had to, I had to develop call scripts. I had a very certain way of doing things with certain perspective clients or, or in the process right. Of a sale. And so just what are some of the scripts or the, uh, email templates?
[00:32:48] Right. We, we developed a whole library of email templates because we realized if you're sending the same kind of email more than twice. Just put it as a template or as a canned response. Right. So things like [00:33:00] that process flows are, are good. Um, I use a lot of tools like, like loom is an example of a video recording and messaging where you can document what you're doing in terms of ScreenFlow.
[00:33:13] So if I'm trying to just describe to an employee, Hey here, here's how I do this. Or even to a VA, I use this a lot now with, with virtual assistance. If I'm going to give a project, I'll start that out and just hit record on my screen, talk into the mic process, what I'm doing in my own mind, out loud to them, and then take it from there.
[00:33:34] So those are just little tips and tricks to use.
[00:33:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:33:38] I love that. I love that notion of here's here's exactly what you would do and, and it would be okay. It would be something that relates to other types of, of professional services and businesses and nonprofits and all of that. It sounds like these are universally applicable.
[00:33:56] Is that the case, do you think, or do you think that there are some things in the [00:34:00] sort of more for-profit realm that would not relate well to the nonprofit.
[00:34:06] Chris Niemeyer: [00:34:06] No, I think they would. I mean, any, any business profit or nonprofit has certain functions, right? They have certain processes a way of doing things.
[00:34:14] Um, I think really, if you, if you peel back the onion, a system or a systemization or whatever that mouthful is, it's really just a way of doing things and, and anyone. You know, uh, a child, a parent, a CEO, you have a way of doing things, so that can apply to just about anything.
[00:34:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:34:36] Yeah. I wonder about that. I mean, I work a lot in, in the space of people who are doing, uh, as I said, social impact and environmental impact.
[00:34:44] I was, I worked at NASA for over 20 years. What can I say? It, it, it doesn't go away. And so, so if that's the case, like someone like me or someone who's, you know, working for an animal shelter and all. Are there ways do you think for them to systematize as [00:35:00] well to make it so that for example, they could do more rescues or things like that, or again, do you think that, that something that's very, non-profit, that's very, almost volunteer driven would be able to do that.
[00:35:14] And how do you handle if you're working on this, how do you handle people who are VAs? How do you handle people who are volunteers? How does that work?
[00:35:24] Chris Niemeyer: [00:35:24] Yeah, no, I think you do. I mean, whether you're a, again, whether you're NASA or whomever you're working for, right. Um, there's a way of doing things. And so let's just say you're a volunteer and you're working for rescues.
[00:35:36] You have a way of doing something when you get that call or that lead, that there's an opportunity. What do you do next? You know, who do you call? How do you vet, if that's an actual, real live opportunity, what, what are the metrics or whatever that might look like in terms of the industry language that's in place for you to say, I've got to make [00:36:00] this call or do this, or do that.
[00:36:02] It's kind of like that if, then, then this scenario, which there's, you know, technology for now, but, but how, how would you do that? Or taking it to an extreme. You know, a pilot has something like 130 point checklist that he's got to tick off before he even turns on the propellers. And so that's just a huge, you know, huge safety precautionary type of checklist, but I think anyone profit or nonprofit has that ability.
[00:36:29] And then the second part of your question about, uh, you know, training a VA or checking in or whatever, I'm just a big fan of, of checking in with people routinely. Um, so whether it's a VA or, you know, I do a lot of real estate deals these days on the side. Um, if I've got a contract to work on a project, You know, four months or six months project in our contract, we actually have something in play.
[00:36:52] It's where it says, Hey, every two weeks, we're just gonna have a five minute call. I just want to check in how's it going? Give me some updates. You know, I do a lot of [00:37:00] stuff out of state, so I'm not even near where these projects are going on, but just to hear here's how things are going or snap, a couple pictures the same.
[00:37:08] Are you done with a VA or an employee? Whether they're working, you know, the next desk over or. Countries away. Um, those kinds of things can be done.
[00:37:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:37:19] That's that gives me such hope for myself. I certainly hope so. Yeah, I, that it I'm at that point, you know, where this podcast requires more help, more work than I can do in, in, in.
[00:37:35] You know, in 1 24 hour, 7, 24 hour periods. So you mentioned something about real estate deals. And we talked a little bit about this before we started recording this chat that you have gotten into both real estate and cryptocurrency. Can you talk a little bit about that? What does, first of all, cryptocurrency is one of those things that I've read about, and I don't, I honestly have no real.
[00:37:58] Fundamental [00:38:00] idea of what cryptocurrency is. So could you take a second and describe what it is and also what you're doing with it?
[00:38:08] Chris Niemeyer: [00:38:08] Sure. Yeah. This is something I've just been talking a lot more openly about here in the past several months, especially on social media, but. Uh, and unless the first part of the question after by cryptocurrency really is, is a digital currency.
[00:38:22] And so, you know, we're all now used to having it in our hands and our, our phones. We can do just about anything. Digitally, right. Whether you want to or not, you have the capability to load your credit cards and check out at the grocery store or, you know, Nordstrom and, and it's all done digitally. So we're used to that now.
[00:38:43] And so cryptocurrency and Bitcoin's kind of the gold standard in that that people might hear about on in headlines. Is built on a technology called the blockchain. And, and again, this, this could be a whole nother episode, but, but the technicality of the blockchain [00:39:00] is just, it's an open, open sourced ledger of transactions.
[00:39:07] And so. Let's go back to like bookkeeping as an example, coming up on this episode, for whatever reason, buy a bookkeeper,
[00:39:17] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:39:17] because I'm so terrible at it. I keep gnawing away at it. That's that's what it is.
[00:39:21] Chris Niemeyer: [00:39:21] Right. Right. So let me give this example. Right? So in the old days we had a file cabinet, right. And the file was in our, in our own office and we kept the ledger.
[00:39:33] We can. The books, so to speak, but only we had access to that. Right. And the blockchain and technology, it's all open source out there in the, in the network. We can see exactly what's there. And so I give this example in, in, uh, The previous decade, there was this massive accounting scandal that was by Wells Fargo.
[00:39:58] Wells Fargo created three and a half [00:40:00] million fake accounts, fake credit card accounts, fake checking accounts, savings accounts, all this stuff. They created that internally in people's names so they can get bonuses and kickbacks and commissions on this stuff. It was exposed. Wow. If that were on the blockchain, that couldn't happen, but because it was in house.
[00:40:19] They had full control. They had secrecy on it. Blockchain provides the transparency. And so, again, there's a lot of complexities to cryptocurrency, but it's just a medium of exchange that can be bought or sold, transferred over, uh, if you own it and you can, you can start using it. People literally now. Buy a Tesla with Bitcoin, they can transfer funds into their Starbucks app and buy a coffee with it.
[00:40:43] So it's it's usage is, is exponentially being, uh, being utilized in new ways these days.
[00:40:51] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:40:51] Okay. That's very cool. And also immediately I go, what are the governments of different countries [00:41:00] going to say about something that does not seem to require their oversight? How does that work?
[00:41:06] Chris Niemeyer: [00:41:06] Yeah. And that's a great question because I think you're gonna see a lot more.
[00:41:11] Scrutiny and, and regulation about this. Um, you know, right now, even just here in this country, whether it's the sec or the IRS, they're looking at different ways as cryptocurrency currency, is it an asset there's, there's ramifications for how they classify that? Um, in India, there's a bill going through parliament right now to ban cryptocurrency.
[00:41:34] And so how could that happen? You know, frankly, there's a lot of people in speculation saying they can't really do that because it's not something that's like a physical, you know, thing you can combine. And so there's a whole discussion about what will happen with that. Um, you know, I, I just got involved because I'm curious and, um, you know, back to my mentors, 16 years ago, [00:42:00] they, they outlined said, Chris, there's kind of three areas of.
[00:42:04] A great way to, to make a living, make a life, you know, perhaps generational wealth for yourself. And that is number one was entrepreneurship, you know, owning and operating a company. Number two was, uh, real estate and various aspects of that development or construction business or top realtor. And number three was financial markets, you know, be a hedge fund, be a trader or whatever they said.
[00:42:28] And these guys were respected greatly and they were very successful, uh, financially. Anyway, um, they said the secret though is if you're going to go that first route as a business owner, an entrepreneur is to take your profits and dump them in those two other classes as quickly as possible to really kind of grow the three-legged stool of, of financial wealth and independence.
[00:42:49] And so I've just followed that advice over the years and become more focused on that recent. In terms of just building up a real estate portfolio of rental properties and [00:43:00] then crypto, I just sort of dabble in and have fun with and trade and, and investor speculate in because I, I like, uh, I like the technology behind it.
[00:43:09] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:09] It's so fascinating that, that, that, that the three legged stool to me, what. What that does. What, what made me go, Ooh, sit up and take notice is the notion that if you want to have, like you said, independence for you, it, it seems to be time with your family and, and being, uh, being the best dad you can be.
[00:43:31] And that's fabulous. And for someone who. For example like me, we have a nonprofit that, that works to stop poachers in Africa. Uh, then, then those kinds of investments, those kinds of activities would, would go well to free up the time, you know, so that I could focus on those things. So, so talk to me a little bit about that.
[00:43:52] If you would, the allocation. You know, the way, the way I live is you've got one life, make it count. So, [00:44:00] so for me, I want to see what are the possibilities, right? And so it sounds to me like you are sort of the poster boy for, for this kind of, sort of triple threat, if you will, what are your thoughts on that?
[00:44:14] As far as allocating that purpose driven life, maybe it's. For business, maybe it is for you, you, you set it up so that you can have your business, have your real estate or cryptocurrency or whatever those things are for each individual person so that you can then be free to do what else you want to do.
[00:44:38] How do you feel about that?
[00:44:40] Chris Niemeyer: [00:44:40] Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, it gets back to again, purpose and values too. And so like you described each person needs to understand clearly what, what it is they're focused on. What makes an ideal lifestyle for you? You know, is it involved in some nonprofit activities or.
[00:45:00] [00:44:59] Things halfway around the world or across the street. That's gonna fill you up and fill up your purpose cup. So to speak. Uh, again, for me, it's, it's all about family, you know, and being the best husband and father I can be and raising these kids in a way that gives them. Um, opportunity and purpose within themselves.
[00:45:18] And I'm involved in other, other things as well. And, and non-profits and such, but for me, that's, that's my biggest focus in this season of life. Um, you know, my youngest is five, so I've got what maybe 13, 14 years of. I've heard, possibly being under the roof. You know, I don't know how that's going to boomerang effect thing works, but we'll see, we've got four kids.
[00:45:39] I'm pretty sure we'll have some kids around for awhile. Uh, but I think that that is my focus. Right. And so if that is the focus and I've been blessed to have some of these business ventures and, and, and just taking some of those profits to reinvest. The allocation question then becomes, you know, [00:46:00] what's, what's your risk tolerance, what's your, um, you know, asymmetric risk.
[00:46:05] So for me, and this gets a little more into the weeds too, but cryptocurrency for example, is very volatile. And so the risk reward can be pretty high, but there's a major price fluctuations and swings. And so you're not going to bet the farm. You're not going to put your entire investment portfolio into something like that.
[00:46:26] But if you. 2%, 5%, 10%, let's say. And that has the potential to go. 10 X or 50 X or these crazy values that some people have realized the last couple of years, um, that can do something pretty substantial for your own portfolio and net worth. And so, so you have to kind of look at that and evaluate that from a real estate perspective.
[00:46:49] There's multiple, multiple ways to be involved in that. Whether you want to be a bit more active like men and finding deals and vetting them and putting offers in or buying cash or [00:47:00] whatever. Uh, but there's also. You know, REITs real estate investment trusts that you can buy, uh, from the stock market. And so that's just a question of your own allocation and risk tolerance, I think is, is, uh, the best answer there.
[00:47:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:47:14] It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a valuable answer because a lot of people think they should be involved in things like this, but maybe they're not well suited for it. You know, that they're, that's not their temperament there to me. But that this whole notion of cryptocurrency and, and, and, and, you know, they say playing the stock market, it's not playing it's, it can be actually quite intense.
[00:47:36] And yet, and yet the way for example, I live with all of this is don't invest anything you can't afford to lose a hundred percent. Right. So, so that seems to be, I am very low I'm risk averse, I guess. And, and yet the thing is that within that, when we're talking about this notion of it comes back, I guess, to self-awareness when we're talking about, you know, what [00:48:00] are you prepared to lose and how much are you prepared to risk?
[00:48:04] And it sounds to me like that goes for everybody, whether or not you're working a job or whether or not you're an entrepreneur or business owner, et cetera, you have to know that about yourself. You have to know what are you prepared to lose and what are you prepared to risk? And so what do you think, how would, how would someone, how would someone figure that out?
[00:48:24] What they're prepared to lose?
[00:48:28] Chris Niemeyer: [00:48:28] Boy, that's a, that's a complex problem. Situation, uh, for most people, but I guess it boils down to, like you said, do you feel like you can just lose it all and be comfortable with that? Or do you feel like, yeah, cause there's extremes, right? There's people that would bet the farm and be like, okay, well I'll go save it again and make it up.
[00:48:49] And, and that's fine. There's also those that are like, I'm going to stick this under my mattress. Cause I don't want to lose it. You know? So somewhere on the spectrum, we all lie. And so I think [00:49:00] just understanding. That and taking a look at, let's just say, you know, the whole wall street experiment, so to speak because really frankly, it's only been less than a hundred years that a normal individual can go and buy a stock.
[00:49:15] So that whole financial services industry is, is relatively new. And, and that's what we get pushed. All the time, it's a massive, massive industry. And so, you know, are you, are you comfortable with seven, 8% and, and taking that slow growth approach of it's going to take 40 or 50 years of working or whatever to get to that retirement point, or are you comfortable maybe taking five or 10 or 20% or whatever that might be into these, you know, quote unquote riskier, uh, play.
[00:49:47] Again, that's a personal decision you've got to just set with and go, how, how would I feel if this dropped 50% or whatever, do you need more money in the mattress or money over [00:50:00] here? Right.
[00:50:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:50:00] And it's absolutely. And, and it's interesting. I mean, we're not giving financial advice here and I have to say that because no, no, no.
[00:50:08] I am not qualified. I am the least qualified person to give financial advice for sure. And yet, this is something that I think it behooves us to think about because everybody is looking and assessing, especially this year of COVID, you know, where they are and, and how they're going to. Proceed, you know, I know a lot of people, a lot of my guests actually have, have made significant changes because of the time in, you know, in the pandemic and sort of really think being, being alone with your thoughts, like you said, being kind of isolated and being alone with your thoughts.
[00:50:43] So I I'm wondering what were the realizations, if you had any that you had during that time, when you were sort of sequestered, if you will.
[00:50:53] Chris Niemeyer: [00:50:53] Yeah. I, I think, uh, that whole, that whole year for a lot of us, right. [00:51:00] Probably brought on some awareness of, um, you know, am I financially secure or safe or whatever. I mean, everyone, everyone was losing their job or their, their company was, uh, you know, frozen for awhile or whatever that might be.
[00:51:15] We, we all had a lot of fear grip us and. And I remember just having to sit with that and go, okay, where were we? Let's just throw everything out there on the table and take a look at that picture. So that's something that we can all do and go, okay, what are there changes that need to be made? You know, the savings rate went through the roof there for awhile because we were also.
[00:51:40] Scared and scattered, oh my gosh. Um, I've been living paycheck to paycheck and you know, now I need to save up three to six months like Dave Ramsey says, or whatever the case may be, um, which is not bad advice, frankly. Right. Uh, to I'm looking outside and I'm looking at squirrels right now. I mean, they, they sock away their, their stuff for the winter [00:52:00] because they know that you need to do that.
[00:52:02] And so I think there's a bit of that personal introspection to go, you know, where are we. Data in front of you doesn't lie, you know, w whether it's your paycheck or your business, or your bank accounts or whatever, and, and what are you more comfortable with? That's that's always a good place to start.
[00:52:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:52:22] Yeah. Again, what, what are you willing to risk and what are you not willing to risk? Absolutely. Chris, I am so grateful that you took the time to chat with me today. This is I could keep you for another four hours and we could, you know, cause I have many more questions, but uh, but I know you've got, oh, thank you so much.
[00:52:40] Yeah. You, I know you've got, you've got kids to get back to, so I, and, and, and I want to respect your time and. So I would love it. Actually, if you wouldn't mind, uh, I have just a couple more questions, but the big one is, would you mind sharing? How is someone goes that Chris guy, he knows what he's talking about.
[00:52:59] I want to, I [00:53:00] want to go find him on social. Would you mind sharing where someone could find you if they were interested in learning more about what you're doing and how you're doing it?
[00:53:09] Chris Niemeyer: [00:53:09] Yeah, absolutely. Well, and thank you again. This is really a pleasure. You're a masterful, uh, Conversation starter. So interviewer, so I really appreciate the time, but yeah, you can find me on Instagram at Chris Niemeyer.
[00:53:24] Uh, maybe put that in, in the links there Niemeyers in I E um, and Facebook saying. And LinkedIn as well. So I'm pretty active on Instagram and Facebook. And then my website is Chris niemeyer.com.
[00:53:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:53:37] Perfect. And actually I will put all of this in the show notes, but just so you know, the LinkedIn is actually Niemeyer Chris.
[00:53:45] And so is Facebook. It's Chris Niemeyer on Instagram and LinkedIn. It's Niemeyer, Chris, N I E M E Y E R. Chris. And if you don't know how to spell Chris, I'm sorry.
[00:54:01] [00:54:00] Yeah, that one, that one. Hopefully won't be, I mean, my name is older and I recently got a piece of a piece of snail mail address to  and I have no idea how they got from Izolda to a Zimbra, but I thought that was really amusing anyway. So. Yeah, it was, it was very strange. So I, again, I want to thank you. And I have just one more question.
[00:54:23] It's a question. I ask everybody who comes on the show and it's a silly question, but I find that it yields some poignant answers. And the question is this. If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say.
[00:54:40] Chris Niemeyer: [00:54:40] Um, mine would be live on purpose, live on purpose.
[00:54:46] And I think that would help people understand or at least to ask themselves what does that mean? And am I. That's
[00:54:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:54:54] fabulous. I love it. That's so succinct. I love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you, Chris. Once again for being [00:55:00] here, I really appreciate it. I I'm so grateful. I learned so much just talking with you and I'm sure if you're listening, you learned a lot from this as well, and you need to go find Chris Niemeyer on.
[00:55:13] Instagram, LinkedIn Facebook and on his website. See what he's up to because obviously he's doing some really cool stuff. This is his older Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. If you're liking what you hear, do me a favor. Go to. Apple podcast rate and review. Tell me what you're thinking. I'd love to hear about it until next time.
[00:55:31] Once again, this is his older. Trakhtenberg reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.
[00:55:43] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on [00:56:00] patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[00:56:00] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2020. As always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.
 

The Surprising Truths I've Learned After 400 Podcast Episodes - an IzoldaT solo episode

400 Episodes!!
I can't believe I'm at this milestone. How exciting. In celebration, I've decided to explore the biggest lessons I've learned from doing hundreds of interviews and making 400 episodes of the show.
And, of course, I couldn't just chat. I also have fabulous prizes!
Listen to the episode to find out how to enter or see the transcript below for the explanation.
Here are the prizes.
You could get this super fun sticker of the show (just follow the podcast's IG page and DM me that you've done it).
You win a copy of any of my books.
Or, you could win copies of all of them (with a pdf of the one that will come out later this autumn).
Subscribe to the show or listen on any podcast platform.
Connect with me.
https://www.instagram.com/izoldat/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/izoldat/
https://twitter.com/IzoldaT
Episode transcript
400th episode
[00:00:00] We're better when we're together and we're better when we're contributing. So don't wait, start, try, do, and grow. And you are going to be amazed at the things that you will uncover and achieve. If you just start where you are, but start that thing. You want to try to start it. It is crucial and key for all of us.
[00:00:20] If you bring your particular creative genius out into the world.
[00:00:29] Hi, and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I'm your host,  izolda Trakhtenberg. On the show, you get my conversations with peak performing thought leaders, creatives, and entrepreneurs. We explore how you can innovate through creativity, compassion, and collaboration. I believe that innovation combined with compassion and creative thinking can save the world and I aim to bring you ways you can do it.
[00:00:53] If you're enjoying the show, I'd be super grateful. If you could support it by buying me a cup of coffee, you can buy me a cup [00:01:00] at buymeacoffee.com/IzoldaT. And now let's get on with the show.
[00:01:14] Hello, and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg I'm your host and I am thrilled and honored that you have chosen to listen to the show today and spend a little time with me because I am celebrating today. This episode marks 400 episodes of this podcast. I can't believe it.
[00:01:35] I'm super excited. And as promised, if you listen all the way through to the end, We're going to have fabulous prizes. I'm super excited. So here's the thing I have to say that I am. I just I'm privileged. I'm privileged to be able to interview peak performing creatives and Changemakers. These are people who are working in the social impact, creative, environmental, and [00:02:00] animal rights space.
[00:02:01] To change the world. That is their mission. That's what they're trying to do. And I'm honored to bring their ideas, their thought processes, the way they do things and how they achieve what they achieve to you. It's incredible. And I'm thrilled that I've gotten a chance to be part of their lives and their process, even though it's a tiny, tiny bit.
[00:02:22] But I'm so glad that they have enriched my life, my world. And of course, this podcast, when I first started the podcast, I had no thought in my head, it was going to be like this. At first, it was five minutes a day. And I'm just going to talk about creativity. And as it evolved, I realized I'm not the only one who should be talking.
[00:02:40] You know what I mean? I wanted to be, I wanted to bring you information from people who are change-makers, who are peak performing innovators. Many fields and the ones that are closest to my heart are of course, creativity, art, and music, and social impact. How are they [00:03:00] making the world a better place? And of course, animal rights and environmental activism.
[00:03:05] So there's, so there's such a wealth of knowledge and, and the people who I interview are incredibly gracious with their wisdom. So I'm really grateful for that. I decided that the way to celebrate these 400 episodes is actually to sort of detail out what I've learned across these 400 episodes. And so I'm going to talk to you a little bit about that.
[00:03:31] And if you have questions, if you have thoughts and ideas, I'd love to hear about them. If you have any realizations about what I'm talking about while I'm talking about it. I'd love to hear about that too. And as I said, if you stay to the end fabulous prizes and fabulous, of course, is in quotes I've actually discovered and coined a new word recently.
[00:03:51] I'm calling things, fabtastic, so fabulous and fantastic together, fabtastic. So you'll probably start hearing me say that a lot more [00:04:00] because that's really the glee and the joy that I feel whenever I get a chance to talk to some of these incredible change-makers. So. In order, no, that's not true.
[00:04:11] Maybe in order, maybe not in order, but these are the things that I've learned after 400 episodes of the podcast. One, people are generous with their time and wisdom. They'll come on the show and let me ask them hard questions and they go deep to bring what they really believe and how they really behave.
[00:04:31] They bring such a wealth of knowledge, such wisdom, and they do it incredibly generously. Number two, the causes you believe in are the ones to dedicate your life to. I believe in art and music, and I believe in saving the planet and the animals. And the more I talk about these things, the more doors open for me to do more and serve better.
[00:04:54] So dedicating yourself to what you believe in. [00:05:00] We'll help you find others who believe what you believe or who at least are interested in supporting you on your journey as you support them on their. Number three, don't be afraid to innovate. Don't be afraid to solve problems in weird ways and try new stuff.
[00:05:19] I've recorded this show on my phone. I've recorded while my guests dog threw up in the corner. I've recorded in busy conference rooms. I've recorded while walking my dog in the rain. We're better when we're together. Right. And we're better when we're contributing. So don't wait, start, try. Do. And grow, and you are going to be amazed at the things that you will uncover and achieve.
[00:05:46] If you just start where you are, but start that, then you want to try start. It. It, it is, it is crucial and key for all of us. If you bring [00:06:00] your particular creative genius out into the. Number four. This is something I've known about myself for a long time, but it came home yet again, doing this podcast. I'm nosy.
[00:06:14] I love learning about people. I love hearing what makes them tick. I love hearing what their processes are. I love helping in any way I can to get their message out. And sometimes it's really cool is that they, while. Really deep in these conversations, they'll have realizations John Kao, who was recently on the show.
[00:06:32] I asked him a question about his six intelligences and how they relate to music and live on the show he went through and related them all. And he'd never done that before. So it was so amazing to be. Even a little part of his process as he realized those things and that whole idea of being nosy. I don't know if I've talked to you.
[00:06:52] I think I've talked to you about this before the overheard project that I have been [00:07:00] doing for a while. And that is that I'm a shameless eavesdropper, and I happen to have a terrific memory. So I'm able to keep entire conversations in my head. And I have been overhearing shamelessly eavesdropping on people's conversations.
[00:07:13] For years and I've notated them all down. And the book overheard life lessons through eavesdropping is going to be dropping sometime this autumn probably in time for the holidays. It's going to be some sort of an art book and I'm excited about it because it's again, bringing that little bit of slice of life, about how we do things about the things we care about, about the things we love with love and sex and family and friendship and work.
[00:07:38] All of these things we talk about. And we, we all say such wisdom. We don't pay attention to it though. It's almost like I wish I could find all of those people who have given me gifted me with such wisdom as they just go on about their lives. And I shamelessly eavesdrop because I love to give them credit, but you know, maybe then maybe they'll [00:08:00] maybe they'll buy the book and they'll realize, oh, that was me.
[00:08:04] I don't know if that'll ever happen, but it would be really amazing and hilarious. Number five. The podcasting industry has exploded where they used to be a few hundred thousand. There are now millions of podcasts. So if you've got something to say and you want to start one, don't wait until you have just the right equipment.
[00:08:26] Don't wait until your studio is perfect. There will always be another super cool microphone and more soundproofing and better gear. You'll have gear envy like crazy, but what's more important is to get your words out there. Do you remember the movie pump up the volume? Talk hard. My favorite moment in the whole movie is the credits.
[00:08:46] When you start hearing all the people who grabbed the courage with both hands and started talking into a microphone, so start and build your gear and your show along the way. There are people out there who are building their businesses, teaching other people how [00:09:00] to start their shows. You can also find everything you need.
[00:09:03] On YouTube. I promise you can totally do that. If you've got the resources and you can also bootstrap and start talking about your topic on your phone, number six, your topic can evolve. You can start out like I did and talk about storytelling and then move to creativity only. But then I moved to innovation because I've always loved creativity.
[00:09:24] With a purpose. That to me is the most important part is a creative on a mission. That's what an innovator really is. As someone who's a creative, who thinks laterally, who thinks from, from different angles to solve problems, to come up with new ideas and new ways of doing things, that person is a creative on a mission.
[00:09:44] And that's what an innovator is. That's what. Do. And it's really exciting to me to get a chance to talk to so many different innovators from so many different possible arenas. You know, I never in my life, what I have [00:10:00] imagined, some of the people who were willing to come on the show and talk to me about how they innovate.
[00:10:04] And that brings me to number seven, communication is the vehicle and connection as the result. Really honestly, I had no thought in my head that someone like Tom Peters, who is a communication guru, he is arguably the greatest leadership expert in our generation. And certainly for the last few generations, not only has he been willing to come on the show once, but twice to talk about his ideas about.
[00:10:30] What he calls extreme humanism. And that is that we should be leading thinking about the people first and not the bottom line. He believes we should always promote from within that women should be on the boards and leading businesses because women are so much better at investing at communication at looking at and dealing with people and figuring out how to grow businesses and companies and organizations.
[00:10:55] Long-term. I had no thought in my head that we would connect and communicate [00:11:00] and, and have such substantive discussions. Another person who's just thrilled me that he was just on the, he just recorded his episode, his episodes actually going to come out sometime in August or September. Peter Shankman was willing to come on the show and talk about how.
[00:11:16] His ADHD, his attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder is actually his super power to innovate and to be a creative thinker who thinks laterally and who helps companies and businesses all over the world and organizations and people all over the world innovate and make incredible inroads. Yeah. The way the world will be formed and move moving forward.
[00:11:42] How can, how can you possibly, I can't even get over it because I'm just. I'm just lucky. That's I'm lucky. That's not true. I okay. I'm not going to be falsely modest. I worked my patootie off. That's true, but I don't do it alone. And that brings me to number eight, [00:12:00] calling your friends. They will be there and they'll help you along the way.
[00:12:03] Like Al Pettaway, Grammy award, winning guitarist and musician and Andrew Lippa, Tony nominated and also Grammy award winning and Emmy nominated. He just got nominated for an Emmy Andrew lipo, who is. An amazing composer and lyricist, and who wrote the music and lyrics to the Broadway sensation, the Adams, family, and other shows and T Morris, who is an incredible author and entertainer and the author of books like podcasting for dummies.
[00:12:33] They have all been on the show and have been very gracious with their wisdom. And I'm very glad because. They they were willing to give me their, their wisdom and their knowledge and be part of the process as this show has evolved. And you know what it's about time to get them all back and see where they are now because ti was last on the show.
[00:12:54] Last autumn, Andrew was last summer and Al Pettaway was left, was not this [00:13:00] past spring, but the previous spring and why not see where they are so I can get even more information and get even more wisdom from these wonderful men. Privileged to call my friends, but then that brings me to number nine. And number nine is actually about solo episodes.
[00:13:18] One of the things that has been such a revelation to me is that when I first started out, I did only solo episodes. And please, in case, because it won't know how should I put this really? Mainly because I was, I was a little trepidatious. I was a little afraid. What would I ask for people to join me to talk about?
[00:13:37] And would anybody ever come on the show and. Certainly they have and they continue to, and I do incredible I get incredible information and interviews with such gracious wisdom from all of the people who come on the show. But then there are some times when I have things that I would like to ruminate on discuss and explore, and those are the solo episodes.
[00:13:59] And one of the [00:14:00] things that I've learned is that there is a time and place for both. You can indeed do. Both solo episodes and interview episodes. If you want on this kind of a podcast, you know, when, when T Morris was gracious enough to put the innovative mindset podcast into podcasting for dummies, he and his co author placed it in the slice of life section of the, of podcasts that they recommend.
[00:14:25] And I thought that was really interesting because. It's not, this show is not so much business, not so much entrepreneurship, not so much slice of life, but yet it's an amalgam of all of them as we explore what it means to change the world for the better, ultimately through different and various forms, whether it's creativity, social impact, environmentalist, or animal rights, the show aims to explore how we all can make a difference and make a change and make the world a better place.
[00:14:55] So sometimes. Privileged, as I said to have [00:15:00] interviews, to have people come on the show and give their wisdom. And sometimes these solo episodes are an opportunity for me to give you substantive ideas on how you yourself can take some of the principles that the people who've been on the show have talked about and make them your own and become your own change maker.
[00:15:17] If that is what you want to do. Number 10. Yeah, I think I've just talked about this, but here we go. Interviews, as you start out, people come on, your show are doing you a favor they're giving of their time and resources to help you yet. At the same time, if you have even one listener, you'll helping your guests reach someone who didn't know about them before.
[00:15:41] Be generous with your time, wisdom and resources. The host guest relationship is important and you can build lifelong friendships and relationships. If you treat your guests with courtesy and respect. And I'm so, as I said, honored and privileged to have these incredible people on the show. [00:16:00] And I'm so grateful that they're willing to do this to be on the show and to give of their time and their knowledge.
[00:16:08] It's it's incredible. Number 11 ask. Good questions. Be different, figure out what your podcast point of view is. And then use that as the lens through which you take your listener on a journey. And that's kind of what I do I think. Or at least that's what I try to do. This podcast is a little different because these conversations go really deep.
[00:16:31] And one of the things that a lot of my guests say is, you know, No one's ever asked me that question before or, wow. That's a great quote. I need to think about that for a minute. And that's one of the things that I aim to do is to ask questions that give people, pause that make them, give them the opportunity to go deeper into what they've been talking about.
[00:16:54] And I said this recently to a guest of mine mayor Meredith Gren dye, she and I were talking [00:17:00] about. This notion of asking deep questions. And one of the reasons that I said to her, one of the reasons that I, that I like asking deep questions is because frankly, if you're a podcast guest, for example, and your audience listens to you, they probably listen to you talk about a lot of the same things a lot, but what if someone asks a question.
[00:17:24] That you've never answered before. Wow. The mysteries you could be solving. Right. So that's one of the things that I aim to do with asking deep, good questions. And I, and I plumbed the depths as much as I can. I'm patting myself on the back here a little bit, but I really do try. And the reason for that is because.
[00:17:43] My guests to feel like they have benefited in some small way from being on the show, as much as the amazing ways I've benefited from having them on the show. Number 12, a podcast is a [00:18:00] sacred trust, like the Y storytellers in many of our myths. As a podcaster I've taken on the task of telling stories or inviting other people to share their stories only instead of sitting around the bonfire under the cover of darkness, I'm sitting at a mic and telling stories, or I'm inviting the person I'm interviewing.
[00:18:22] To sit behind their mic and tell you their story. And there's something so powerful about that hearing stories. We we've been doing it as long as we've been verbal. Someone has asked why or what or how, and someone else has answered. Or they've explored together. And that's one of the things that I aim to do with this show is to give us all an opportunity to explore together what it means to be an innovator, a creative thinker, and someone who wants to change the world for the better.
[00:18:55] My guests are going to be. They're, they're all [00:19:00] amazing. They're going to floor you over the next 400 episodes because I'm not going anywhere. This, this show is going to be around. As long as I'm around, I'm going to, I'm going to be 98 years old and barely able to talk. But by gum, I'm going to be out here somehow trying to do this.
[00:19:19] Because I think the notion of innovation and how we can be creatives on a mission to make the world a better place. I think it could potentially save all of us. And I would be remiss if I did not, I would be shirking my responsibilities if I did not make that a priority in my life because we have.
[00:19:44] Such an incredible responsibility at this tipping point in our species, survival and this at this time of great climate change and habitat destruction, and so many other things, being challenging, that innovation, I [00:20:00] think being creative on a mission will allow us the opportunity to change the world and make it a better place.
[00:20:11] So, those are the things that I've learned from doing this podcast. And I am thrilled and honored that you have been listening and being on the show and being on the show. My brain, see, my brain is fried. I've had, I did three interviews today. It was a busy day. So my brain's a little fried, but I, but I do, I do feel like you're on the show with me because I feel like I'm talking to you when.
[00:20:39] When I'm doing the show and I feel like we're all sitting around in the end. It's funny. Whenever I'm welcoming a guest to the show, I always say, imagine we're sitting in a cafe and having a cup of coffee together or to two or whatever, it's just a chat. And yet, sometimes. Somebody makes small talk and, oh, hi, how are you?
[00:20:57] How's the weather. And sometimes all of [00:21:00] a sudden the conversation goes intense and deep, and you're really thinking, and you're really innovating. And you're really coming up with ideas that you're articulating that you may never have articulated before. And you're doing it for thousands of people who are listening.
[00:21:14] It is such an honor and so incredible. And I'm super grateful that you're part of this journey. So here we go. I promised you fabulous prizes in the show notes. If you look on the website, you'll see that there's this really cool. It almost looks like dichroic, but it's not. It's like a reflective, really cool rainbow sticker.
[00:21:38] Of the innovative mindset podcast. And I have recently started an actual innovative mindset podcast, Instagram. And so here's how the fabulous prizes are going to go. The first 20 people who follow the Instagram account for the innovative mindset podcast, which is just at innovative mindset podcast, [00:22:00] all one word.
[00:22:01] And DM me that you to let me know that you did it because you listened to this episode, we'll get a sticker of the first 20 people. One person is going to get all six books and a PDF of the next one that will come out. This autumn of my stuff, and three people. We'll get, can you tell I'm making some of this up because I can't read the words that I wrote. You'll get a book of your choice for my catalog. So if you go to his old, a t.com and you go to about, and then books, you'll be able to see the six books.
[00:22:45] And if you. If you're there and you're in the top 20 and you've DMD me, I'm going to choose someone at random from all the people who follow. And it, you don't have to be in the top 20 to win the, the second prize or the first prize, [00:23:00] but the first top 20 who follow and tell me that they followed will absolutely get a sticker that you can put on your computer or on your coffee cup or wherever, because they're waterproof and you can put them in the dishwasher.
[00:23:10] It's really cool. And. Of all the people who follow in DME that they've, that they have followed the Instagram account. You'll get, I'm going to choose three people who get one book out of the catalog and you can choose your book. When I let you know you've won. And in one person I'm going to choose is going to get all six plus the PDF of the new one.
[00:23:32] When it comes out in. Hopefully around the holiday season in December. Okay. That was a long and involved way of saying, I didn't quite think this through as well as I could have. Huh. All right. Cool. So here we are. We are at the end of the 400th episode last week was Mike cam. Who's a personal branding expert.
[00:23:53] He joined me on the show and next week is Chris Niemeyer who. He's an interesting [00:24:00] man who is taking, he's decided that his goal in his life is to spend more time with his family. So he's developed some strategies and ideas on how to make income so that he has time to spend time with his family. That is his goal.
[00:24:15] And one of the things that's really cool is that that applies equally. Well, if you want to be an activist, if you want to be an artist, if you want to do all of these things, however you want to do it, the ideas that he talks about. We'll work. If you want to spend time with your family, if you want to make great art, if you want to be an activist with the SPCA or the sea shepherd conservation society or wherever it is, you want to put your energies.
[00:24:40] If what you want to do is make money in one way and do work of your heart in another, or maybe you just love making money. I don't know. Chris will be there to talk you through. How to do it. It's a really cool episode. It made me think in some really interesting ways. And August has incredible guests as well.
[00:25:00] [00:25:00] Evan stern is going to be joining me. Meredith granddad is going to be joining me. Angela angle is going to be joining me, star Hayward. It's going to be amazing and I'm going to be doing just so you know, every month, one episode a month is going to be a solo show. It's going to be me talking to you about how to be.
[00:25:17] Innovator about how to be a creative on a mission so that you can do the things that you want to do in the, in a different and amazing and exciting and inspiring. All righty. I hope you've enjoyed this episode and all of the things that I've learned after 400 episodes of the innovative mindset podcast.
[00:25:37] I am Izolda Trakhtenberg. If you're liking the show, please leave a review. I'd love to hear from you until next time I send you all of my love and I remind you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot. And as often as possible, be a creative on a mission.
[00:26:01] [00:26:00] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you're new and if you like what you're hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. And if you'd like to be a sponsor of the show, I'd love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.
[00:26:18] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today's episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg in his copyright 2021 as always, please remember. For educational and entertainment purposes, only past performance does not guarantee future results. Although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.